I think I am going crazy.

[mystika1]

Hi,

I am really having a hard time and need some advice. My 8 year old dd is really a hand full of:ack2::angry: . School time is terrible. Complaining, moaning and yelling everytime I start school. I am about to throw in the towel. It takes forever to get everything done. The only thing she doesn't throw a fit for is science. I have been looking into K12 cyber school or connections academy(both free in our state) thinking the outside teacher Involvement t may(in dd way of thinking) "force" her to get it done. Next option would be to put her in a local christian homeschool that is not far from the house. The woman charges a $200 fee and $330 per month. If I go the second route I will have to take my dd out of Karate because I just can't afford both. I feel so terrible. All of the other homeschoolers I know seem so in control. I feel like I am going crazy. I have tried time out..."go to your room and don't come out".....taking fun things away. My husband was home this morning and saw her latest fit. He was not happy to say the least.

 

My 3 year old loves school and never causes problems. My 8 year old gets so angry and says that she wishes she was 3 again so she would have the fun stuff back. :glare:

 

Any advice???

 

Penny

[FlyingMOm]

Penny,

 

Honestly, it sounds like a parenting issue. My advice would be to look around you & see who has daughters that are around your dd's age or older that are turning out well? Watch them- observe closely. It will probably hurt but I would ask them- what do you think I am doing wrong? What should I do differently? Pick one issue and CONQUER it with her. Then pick another and so on.

 

Truly, until you get your daughter's heart & establish yourself as an authority, school will not get any better.

[tiffanieh]

Penny,

 

Honestly, it sounds like a parenting issue. My advice would be to look around you & see who has daughters that are around your dd's age or older that are turning out well? Watch them- observe closely. It will probably hurt but I would ask them- what do you think I am doing wrong? What should I do differently? Pick one issue and CONQUER it with her. Then pick another and so on.

 

Truly, until you get your daughter's heart & establish yourself as an authority, school will not get any better.

 

:iagree:

 

Unfortunately, school elsewhere will not fix the problem. Sure, you may be "rid" of her for several hours during the day, which will save your sanity...but I'm SURE that is not "the best" that you want for your child. These are character issues, and because we homeschool, we get to see them constantly and are quick to think it is because of school. Because we get to homeschool though, we have that many more hours in the day to train our children up in the way they should go. With her at a traditional school, you'd only have 2-3 hours per day to really work on this.

 

I agree with the PP in that this is a heart issue. You need to capture her heart and gain authority over her. It tis true that until that happens, it will be ground hog day in your home over and over and over.

 

Folly is bound in the heart of a child....so true...but fortunately for her, she was given a mom that cares enough to want to do better. Nothing is worse than a home full of contempt. I tell my children often that PEACE is one of the blessings that come with obedience and grace for each other.

 

I hope you find grace and peace in your home soon!!!

:grouphug:

[MelanieM]

Is she like this in general, or just when it comes to school? Is it possible that a different approach to school would work better for you all? When she says she wants the fun stuff her 3 yr old sibling is doing, what does that mean? What would make it more fun for her, in her eyes? Can you find a way that meets your goals *and* is more engaging for her?

[*~Tina~*]

Hi,

I am really having a hard time and need some advice. My 8 year old dd is really a hand full of:ack2::angry: . School time is terrible. Complaining, moaning and yelling everytime I start school. I am about to throw in the towel. It takes forever to get everything done. The only thing she doesn't throw a fit for is science. I have been looking into K12 cyber school or connections academy(both free in our state) thinking the outside teacher Involvement t may(in dd way of thinking) "force" her to get it done. Next option would be to put her in a local christian homeschool that is not far from the house. The woman charges a $200 fee and $330 per month. If I go the second route I will have to take my dd out of Karate because I just can't afford both. I feel so terrible. All of the other homeschoolers I know seem so in control. I feel like I am going crazy. I have tried time out..."go to your room and don't come out".....taking fun things away. My husband was home this morning and saw her latest fit. He was not happy to say the least.

 

My 3 year old loves school and never causes problems. My 8 year old gets so angry and says that she wishes she was 3 again so she would have the fun stuff back. :glare:

 

Any advice???

 

Penny

 

 

I agree that sending her somewhere else isn't the answer.

 

I have an 8 yo *bucket of sass* here and I know how frustrating it can be!

 

8 going on 25. . and ready to battle at every hill - it can easily make you want to throw your hands up in despair! But, I want to encourage you to reclaim your "parent power" here. Her stinky attitude doesn't HAVE to ruin your day. Decide which issues need to be addressed first, then set consequences and stick to them. . .day after day after day.

 

If she misses a few rounds of academics due to "time out" and extra chores, so be it. Life lessons are valuable too. :D

 

Mine just washed walls and baseboards last week. She actually enjoyed it but then had the audacity to ask for a reward! :001_huh: I told her she had the priviledge of living here, eating here, and being part of our family, thus we all have to pitch in to make things run smooth. That in itself IS her reward.

 

Don't let your dd sense you feeling defeated by her actions and behavior. When we give up, they know it. And as much as they fight it, they need boundaries.

 

An 8 yo isn't the boss :glare: You are MOM, hear you ROAR!!

 

Have you even read anything by John Rosemond? Might try the library for some of his books. He addresses this well and will hopefully leave you feeling empowered as a parent!

[thowell]

Just wanted to say that I have felt your pain. Let me say it is perfectly normal to want to give up. I am sure you feel like YOU have somehow failed her and that someone else will be able to do a better job. Let me tell you from experience this will not fix the problem. If she is allowed to force your hand in school decision it will carry over into other areas. Dd10 was just like this and I thought I would lose my mind. She is much better now. First let me ask what above poster asked is she like this is other areas of life as well? What is she doing in science that she likes so much?

[mystika1]

I pretty much fuss at her all day long. She throws her cloths on the floor and makes lots of mess and when I tell her to clean up......:ack2: She fights with her 3 year old sister all day long. I tell her it is time for karate class and it whiney time. I feel like I should just record myself fussing and just play the take back when I wake up everyday to save my breath.:D I have recorded her fussing and played it back for her and she hates hearing herself fuss...I can't help it.....I have to show her how ugly she sounds.

 

As for science....in galloping the globe we study animals from the chosen continent. For everything else...She fusses cause she wants to be done with work so she can play but it ends up making school last longer cause we have to wait for the fits to stop. She just can't see that she is defeating her goal.

 

Thanks,

 

Penny

[EKS]

When my recently turned 9yo acts like that, he gets his screens taken away for a week. He shapes right up. I'd find whatever her "currency" is, even if you have to create it (as I did by allowing my children to become addicted to screens) and then use it to ensure better behavior. But you have to be consistent and follow through no matter what.

[*~Tina~*]

I tell her it is time for karate class and it whiney time.

 

Don't take her to karate class. If she'd rather stay home and whine, send her to her room to do so.

[MelanieM]

I think it's interesting that you describe your interactions with her as you fussing at her, and her responses as her fussing at you. Do you think her behaviour is a mirror of yours? I ask because I have a bit of an issue with attitude in my 5 yo, but if I'm totally honest with myself he is coming by it honestly through *my* poor job of modeling appropriate ways of speaking. I find that when I am consistently modeling respectful interactions he makes huge strides in the same, without me really having to say much of anything.

 

I have had a lot of success with my son by using a points system. We give out points 3x a day (at meal periods) for proper behaviour in the period prior. We use this to work on one or two particular issues at a time (i.e. when he was having trouble with hitting) and if he has an issue-free period we celebrate it and he gets his point. Then he can also lose a point if that particular behaviour happens, or continues to happen after a warning. The points are worth 20 cents a piece, and the kids can cash them in for spending money for treats and such. This works extremely well for my boy, who needs external reminders to help motivate him a lot of the time.

[HeidiKC]

Just wanted you to know that not everyone else's kids are perfect! Mine also sometimes drive me NUTS with the whining. I was having a hard time with my oldest ds, and really the best thing that worked for me (it was HARD!!!) was to try to start fresh and really be positive. I know that's so hard when someone is being a major pain and ruining your day, but I talked with him about it first and asked if it wouldn't be great if we could both start over and try hard and have fun. I also tried to give him a little more control as far as schooling decisions (or at least think he was the one calling some of the shots! heh heh).

 

When your child is acting this way all the time, it is SO hard not nag, nag, nag, yell or whatever. Generally respond very negatively to the child. Which of course makes them her feel that way, and she's more likely to continue. Try to sort of break the cycle, hard as it is. I would have to "re-start" almost daily. But I tried hard to praise where I could and be positive when it was appropriate, even for little things. So he knew I did appreciate him and his efforts and that I thought he was a great kid (even when I didn't really feel that way!). I'm not saying things became perfect, but helped SO much.

 

Also, maybe more short exercise breaks, even if it is just laughing and doing 40 quick jumping jacks and let her try to teach the 3 yo how to do it.

[MelanieM]

Just wanted you to know that not everyone else's kids are perfect! Mine also sometimes drive me NUTS with the whining. I was having a hard time with my oldest ds, and really the best thing that worked for me (it was HARD!!!) was to try to start fresh and really be positive. I know that's so hard when someone is being a major pain and ruining your day, but I talked with him about it first and asked if it wouldn't be great if we could both start over and try hard and have fun. I also tried to give him a little more control as far as schooling decisions (or at least think he was the one calling some of the shots! heh heh).

 

When your child is acting this way all the time, it is SO hard not nag, nag, nag, yell or whatever. Generally respond very negatively to the child. Which of course makes them her feel that way, and she's more likely to continue. Try to sort of break the cycle, hard as it is. I would have to "re-start" almost daily. But I tried hard to praise where I could and be positive when it was appropriate, even for little things. So he knew I did appreciate him and his efforts and that I thought he was a great kid (even when I didn't really feel that way!). I'm not saying things became perfect, but helped SO much.

 

Also, maybe more short exercise breaks, even if it is just laughing and doing 40 quick jumping jacks and let her try to teach the 3 yo how to do it.

 

Excellent post!

[Tracy]

I am just finishing a book that seems on point here called Your Competent Child by Jesper Juul. The premise is that children naturally want to cooperate. And often when they act they way you describe, it is either because (1) they are cooperating in a way that we don't quite understand, (2) they have been cooperating for longer than they are capable or (3) their "integrity" has been violated (integrity has a specific definition in the book). I can't say that I agree with everything in the book, however, I have gleaned several tidbits that I believe will be helpful with my dc.

[mystika1]

Thanks so much for all of the replies. I really don't want to put her in school. I have just been so afraid that this is destroying our relationship. At 8 years old I am just a meany who makes her do all of the things she hates. Anything good we do during the day is killed the moment I tell her to clean her room or get ready to do schoolwork. I suppose it gets old. Honestly....I have trouble sleeping at night and that leaves me worn. My body winds down around 4 am and that pretty much leaves me with hardly any sleep..... only to get up to whine central station. I guess I just needed a kick in the rear.:)

 

Thanks for all of the great advice. My wheels are turning and I will try everything out to find what helps.

 

Penny

[Koerarmoca]

Thanks so much for all of the replies. I really don't want to put her in school. I have just been so afraid that this is destroying our relationship. At 8 years old I am just a meany who makes her do all of the things she hates. Anything good we do during the day is killed the moment I tell her to clean her room or get ready to do schoolwork. I suppose it gets old. Honestly....I have trouble sleeping at night and that leaves me worn. My body winds down around 4 am and that pretty much leaves me with hardly any sleep..... only to get up to whine central station. I guess I just needed a kick in the rear.:)

 

Thanks for all of the great advice. My wheels are turning and I will try everything out to find what helps.

 

Penny

lack of sleep on your part could really be affecting things too. I know I am so short with the kids on nights I am up late and then dealing with unruly children in the morning. I would also suggest mixing things up a little curriculum wise. if she loves science capitalize on it, try to make science more apart of other subjects. Try to add some more fun things into the day try a math game where you would normally be doing drills. take a break from history and watch a educational dvd. I know when dd12 was in 5th we had a few power struggles and i really had to add some fun, me her and books wasn't going to work I had to bring more fun and change things up a bit.

[YarnAddict]

Let me encourage you that sending her to school will NOT solve your problems. Friends told me it wouldn't "fix" things... but... I am hard headed and had to learn the lesson on my own. We had some pretty bad things happening on my side of the family for the last year and when summer came in 2010, and registration was open for the local PS, I couldn't fight anymore. I felt like I was fighting kids, fighting spiritual warfare, just fighting to not be depressed and to make it another day (REALLY bad situation on my side of the family, sigh).

 

I signed her up, and sent her. She cried some days when she had to go. I feel like a horrible mother still for making her go but I was not doing well, and she had been whining and fighting me. I got my LO into a preschool thru the local district and began working on my health, working out, etc... but it wasn't until the situation with my family worked out that I couild think clearly. I realized there was STILL whining and fighting here, it just happened between 4-8pm, and it was more concentrated because we weren't together all day... My older DD is TIRED all of the time, despite getting good sleep and taking vitamins. School takes all of her energy. Also, her class has grown to 29 children, no aide.

 

So you guessed it, I realized I miss my girls and having them together, I miss being with them both... and I know now I am going to have to lay down the law and make this work. In my mind now, there is no other option other than homeschool (I may put them in for high school, but right now I'm thinking we will go until at least 8th grade). We miss the flexibility, the time together, the ability to go minister and help others whenever needed... AND, my daughter, tho she's a social butterfly said she WANTS to be home again as long as she can call or write her school friends letters, LOL.

 

We have talked to her a lot about how school will go here next year, still getting up early (sister will do another yr of preschool anyhow), NO TV until after 4pm just like regular school days, afternoon time will be spent constructively... (before she was racing through HSing work to get to play Wii... ugh). I have learned a lot more about how structured I need to be to make schooling at home work for my family.

 

I feel like I've lost the plot here. :D I just wanted you to know I thought school would fix things, and bottom line, I had to "woman up" and deal with the mess. Things are not perfect here, but my little one is learning she can NOT get what she wants by whining, and my older one is learning more responsibility around here because I MAKE her... and this will continue as we go back to homeschooling.

 

You've gotten great ideas here and I plan to steal some of them. :lol:

[tammyw]

Maybe she needs to be involved in how she learns. Is a more relaxed method possible? I tell you, once we relaxed a lot, things got a lot better. Could she help you pick out different things to learn about and then give you ideas on how she'd like to learn them? Does she like to read? There are so many things that can be learned just from reading.

[Cornerstone Classical]

WOW! This really spoke to me. Sounds like some of the things I've faced this year. This has been a very hard yr for me personally, and on top of that, I deal with whining, and being behind in our work by about half the year in MFW. There has literally been times they whine so bad, I just stop, walk away, and go get on Facebook. Pathetic huh? We are OK with core subjects, but my DD is ending 2nd grade soon and is still on a 1st grade reading level. I also am having to look for a part-time job. So I have really considered putting them in PS. But I just don't know if I can do it. It sure would be a relief, but do I really want to take the easy way out? Some times I wished my kids could go to PS for a couple of weeks so they could see how wonderful their homeschooling is. i feel sure they would come crying home:D

 

Let me encourage you that sending her to school will NOT solve your problems. Friends told me it wouldn't "fix" things... but... I am hard headed and had to learn the lesson on my own. We had some pretty bad things happening on my side of the family for the last year and when summer came in 2010, and registration was open for the local PS, I couldn't fight anymore. I felt like I was fighting kids, fighting spiritual warfare, just fighting to not be depressed and to make it another day (REALLY bad situation on my side of the family, sigh).

 

I signed her up, and sent her. She cried some days when she had to go. I feel like a horrible mother still for making her go but I was not doing well, and she had been whining and fighting me. I got my LO into a preschool thru the local district and began working on my health, working out, etc... but it wasn't until the situation with my family worked out that I couild think clearly. I realized there was STILL whining and fighting here, it just happened between 4-8pm, and it was more concentrated because we weren't together all day... My older DD is TIRED all of the time, despite getting good sleep and taking vitamins. School takes all of her energy. Also, her class has grown to 29 children, no aide.

 

So you guessed it, I realized I miss my girls and having them together, I miss being with them both... and I know now I am going to have to lay down the law and make this work. In my mind now, there is no other option other than homeschool (I may put them in for high school, but right now I'm thinking we will go until at least 8th grade). We miss the flexibility, the time together, the ability to go minister and help others whenever needed... AND, my daughter, tho she's a social butterfly said she WANTS to be home again as long as she can call or write her school friends letters, LOL.

 

We have talked to her a lot about how school will go here next year, still getting up early (sister will do another yr of preschool anyhow), NO TV until after 4pm just like regular school days, afternoon time will be spent constructively... (before she was racing through HSing work to get to play Wii... ugh). I have learned a lot more about how structured I need to be to make schooling at home work for my family.

 

I feel like I've lost the plot here. :D I just wanted you to know I thought school would fix things, and bottom line, I had to "woman up" and deal with the mess. Things are not perfect here, but my little one is learning she can NOT get what she wants by whining, and my older one is learning more responsibility around here because I MAKE her... and this will continue as we go back to homeschooling.

 

You've gotten great ideas here and I plan to steal some of them. :lol:

[lea1]

I have one compliant child and one who is the absolute opposite and will battle and beg often. This is a day to day effort for me personally. He is like a little mirror and so I really have to watch my attitude and I really have to treat him with respect. If I slip into a bad attitude of my own, he simply reflects my attitude and behaviors right back at me. (Funny how that works!) There have been many days when I have wondered how I will be able to homeschool this child but things are improving so I have hope.

 

Some things I have found that help.

1. I really have to choose my battles carefully. There are many times when I might want to say no just because it would be easier or less work for this 48 year old mom. I have found that, if I am willing to give a bit, he will normally be very happy with that. If I flat out say no too often, we will definitely have a very bad day. (Of course, I normally don't do that unless I am having a bad day and then we have the mirror thing happening again:tongue_smilie:).

 

2. As for having him pick up toys or clothes or whatever, I will often attach this request to something that I know he wants to do. My sons take turns picking a short movie (30 movie) to watch each day. They really look forward to it so I normally will say, "pick up the living room while I do such-and-such and then you can watch your movie", or "you need to do such-and-such before you watch your movie". This has been very effective. They also love to play games so the same approach works well for that.

 

3. My sons are only 5 and are technically still pre-K but they are reading pretty well and we do reading and writing lessons here and there (not as often as I would like but we are building a house and it takes up a lot of my time). They have recently started taking violin lessons but we started having issues with the non-compliant son not wanting to practice and not always being as cooperative as we would like during lessons, which are only 30 minutes long, once a week. I have read that when a child is learning something new like this, sometimes they need an external reward/bribe to get them excited and get them going. So they now "earn" $1 a week for participating and obeying nicely and trying their best during their violin lesson. They also "earn" 1 quarter if they do the same during practice each day. They have yet to have any sort of allowance but are just starting to really understand the usefulness of money. They are so excited because they have saved their money and they are going to put it together tomorrow to purchase a toy they have been wanting.

 

This has worked very well for lessons and pretty well for practicing but not perfectly. What I have found that really helps though is to make sure I keep his practice a little shorter and I keep it very positive. I still correct gently but I am more careful about how I do it and I make sure I praise him for the specific things he is doing well. This in particular has helped tremendously for both boys and they are both a lot more likely to be positive when I say we are going to practice violin.

 

4. The one other thing I have found is that he also does much better if I give him some notice before I ask him to do something that I know might not be what he really wants to do. If I give 15 minutes notice, it typically goes over much better. He seems to think that 15 minutes is a good amount of time to play. So, as long as he has 15 minutes to play first, he is usually better about doing what I ask of him. I normally set a timer so he will hear when it goes off, which also helps.

 

Even with all of this, we still have our moments but these things have helped a lot. I always tell people that if I only had the one child (the compliant one) I would think I was a great parent:D. Having a challenging child really humbles a parent. I am learning SOOOO much about myself through parenting him though. I know that is not a mistake but rather it is showing me areas in my life where I need to grow, which can at times be painful :tongue_smilie:.

 

I hope you find some tools that will help you effectively work through this with your daughter.

[Homemama2]

There has literally been times they whine so bad, I just stop, walk away, and go get on Facebook. Pathetic huh?

 

Well, if you're pathetic, so am I!! My ds's attitude was so bad today that this is exactly what I did!!! Just wanted to say thanks for all the encouragement ladies.....and here's hoping tomorrow will be better! :cheers2:

[YarnAddict]

Katherine, well, my DD does enjoy ps, but she has realized it takes WAY longer than homeschooling did, and she doesn't get near as much playtime with friends as she used to despite the fact she's around kids ALL day. So much for socialization. :rolleyes: Hee hee. I know she misses just being a kid. Our local PS are supposed to be really good, but with classes in DD';s grade at 29, 31... well... I can do better... This has helped me see PS isn't perfect, so I don't have to be either. :lol:

[Elizabeth in WA]

Well, I confiscated my 13 yo's electronics and sent him for a nap today. And I released my 8yo daughter outside to play as soon as the neighborhood children came home from school. Then I played around on the boards contemplating why my break from driving them to activities all evening just meant they stayed home to whine during my usual quiet time... :p Most of the time I can handle the whining and make it stop either through humor or firmness. But once it gets to me, I definitely need a time out before I can handle again.

 

So maybe a break, say a weekend at grandmas, or even just an afternoon by yourself while she plays with a friend or stays home with daddy might help you clear your head and be better prepared to deal with it.

[SunshineMom]

I found that if I am consistent in our homeschool schedule my children are well behaved. Children really do like routines to their day and inconsistencies breed contempt. I would encourage you to discuss creating a schedule with your child. Talk to her about subjects that need to be taught and consult on times to hold such "classes." Develop your homeschool schedule. Start out slow with one subject for a week, then add one more subject each week until you've reached your goal. Aim for three hours a day for school, include breaks between subjects and a snack. End your school day with an art project or activity that is pleasing. I would also encourage you now to take a few days off from school to focus on your homeschool goals, review current curriculum(is it too easy or too hard, changes needed?) and write out a mission statement if it helps. Before you jump into a discussion with your children or make any decisions, take a break. Leave the house, go for a walk, buy yourself some flowers, go to a coffee shop or bookstore, be gone for as long as you have childcare--all day would be the best. Best wishes, homeschooling is a journey and we are all in this together.

[maddykate]

Just a quick note to say that food is the great motivator in our house. Before every meal - from breakfast, snacks, and dinner - we have a general cleaning up time where we all work together (or I assign jobs for them, if I am busy with something) to get the house back in order. If someone does try to get out of work or doesn't do their part, they have to wait the longest to get their food for that meal. I don't usually have a problem with that kind of behavior, though, because they all like to eat :D. If they try to whine and get out of work, or are just generally having a bad attitude regarding cleaning, they get more jobs. I pile it on that one child (age appropriate jobs, of course) and it usually fixes the bad behavior for them all.

 

You have been given great advice! Hope you find something that works in your family.

[MelanieM]

Lea in OK, it sounds like we're raising the same kids! I have also been known to say that if my oldest was my only, I'd think I was just brilliant at this parenting thing! lol! Difficult children humble you indeed.

 

One of the best parenting tips I ever received from a friend was to put yourself on the child's side and let the rule be the 'bad guy'. So for example, create a schedule that says at 10am it's room-cleaning time. If the child complains, you respond "yes, I know, it can be challenging to have to do things you don't enjoy. I wish it were different, but that's what the schedule says so that's what we must do. Perhaps we can work together/turn on some music/make it a race to see how quickly we can finish."

 

We use this with great success with whining. I explained to the kids (during a normal moment... not in the thick of conflict) that they are welcome to talk to me in a normal voice to make a request, but whining gets an automatic no. So now, when my son whines at me I say "I'm sorry, but you know whining means an automatic no. Maybe you can use your normal voice and try asking again." At first I had to be prepared to respond to my son's normal-voice request with a yes so that he experienced some wins, but now that's become a rule they're used to and I can listen to the re-worded complaint and still stick to my no without a mutiny. Also, sometimes when I say "sorry, automatic no" he just huffs at me and gives up. lol! It's not perfect, and it hasn't gotten rid of all whining, but it has cut back on it drastically and almost always keeps it from turning into a full on whine-fest.

[wimseycat]

I feel your pain. I have a 10yo who has done this for about 2 years with varying degrees of sass at different times. I definitely agree with several of the posters about finding the right currency - the currency often changes too, so you have to be on your toes and recognize it. I would definitely take away the karate until you see some progress. It won't be pretty but I think it is necessary. I did this with tennis for my dd. Extra curriculars are privileges not rights in our house.

 

Another thing I didn't see anyone mention was tv as a negative influence. I don't know what shows she is or isn't watching but sometimes shows I thought were benign like Arthur on PBS could trigger sarcasm and attitude in my dd when she was younger. The Disney channel is probably the worst thing for tween girls I can think of. We allowed our dds to watch Hannah Montana last summer and boy did I start to see the attitudes! Needless to say there is no Disney channel in our house anymore. ;)

 

HTH,