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I keep hearing how different Singapore math is in the way it teaches. We are doing 1A with dd5 and 2A with ds7. I am not seeing yet why it is any different than Horizons ( what we just switched from) other than it uses more manipulatives and is mastery vs. spiral.

 

When people say it is so different, what are they referring to?

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I don't know that it is unique anymore-enough math curricula now use or incorporate parts of Asian-style math that it's not the only player in the market anymore. I will say, though, that it seems to be the right mix for my daughter, where it doesn't require the heavy manipulative use (which drives her up a wall), has a reasonable amount of writing and a lot of places she can work mentally and orally, encourages visualization, and has enough cute pictures and color to keep her interested. I strongly suspect there are many programs out there that would have worked equally well with DD-it's simply that we started with Singapore first, so I see no need to change it.

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Singapore is also easily customizable depending on the student's needs: It's got a solid core, Extra Practice for students who need it to attain mastery, Intensive Practice for math adept student, and CWP for just about everybody (a year behind for some).

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I have a copy of 2A (textbook and workbook) and though I like the way Singapore teaches multiplication next to division... but I found that it really didn't have enough practice for me to feel comfortable using it. I've decided to stick with Horizons for our family (I have 4 kids), but I do have a feeling that my dd is ready to move a year forward right now. It's a lot of great practice and repetition, but I do kinda feel like it's too much sometimes. Then again, I didn't get a solid grounding in the basics myself as a kid in public school, so I think it's probably a lot better than what I received! And my dd loves math!

 

There's my 2 cents. Hope that helps in some way!

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I have a copy of 2A (textbook and workbook) and though I like the way Singapore teaches multiplication next to division... but I found that it really didn't have enough practice for me to feel comfortable using it. I've decided to stick with Horizons for our family (I have 4 kids), but I do have a feeling that my dd is ready to move a year forward right now. It's a lot of great practice and repetition, but I do kinda feel like it's too much sometimes. Then again, I didn't get a solid grounding in the basics myself as a kid in public school, so I think it's probably a lot better than what I received! And my dd loves math!
Do you have the Home Instructor's Guide? It has mental math exercises to help master facts, and IIRC these are scheduled every day.
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I keep hearing how different Singapore math is in the way it teaches. We are doing 1A with dd5 and 2A with ds7. I am not seeing yet why it is any different than Horizons ( what we just switched from) other than it uses more manipulatives and is mastery vs. spiral.

 

When people say it is so different, what are they referring to?

 

I'd say one big difference I've seen is in mental math and in ways to solve a problem. For example, with Singapore a child it taught to manipulate problems in his head to make them easier to solve. (i.e. 28 + 9 = 30 +7 or 19-7= 12 + 7 -7)

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I don't know that it is unique anymore-enough math curricula now use or incorporate parts of Asian-style math that it's not the only player in the market anymore. I will say, though, that it seems to be the right mix for my daughter, where it doesn't require the heavy manipulative use (which drives her up a wall), has a reasonable amount of writing and a lot of places she can work mentally and orally, encourages visualization, and has enough cute pictures and color to keep her interested. I strongly suspect there are many programs out there that would have worked equally well with DD-it's simply that we started with Singapore first, so I see no need to change it.

 

I could have written that, with a he not a she. Word for word.

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I'd say one big difference I've seen is in mental math and in ways to solve a problem. For example, with Singapore a child it taught to manipulate problems in his head to make them easier to solve. (i.e. 28 + 9 = 30 +7 or 19-7= 12 + 7 -7)

 

That's what I was thinking. We only just received Singapore 2A, but we've been using Rightstart, which is similar (but not exactly the same) in how it teaches mental math. I don't see that with Horizons AT ALL. With Horizons, the TG says to show the kid the algorithm. That's it. With Rightstart, the child learns how to mentally add and subtract with regrouping, going through weeks of practice, before they ever learn an algorithm. I think this is a much better way to approach it.

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I have a copy of 2A (textbook and workbook) and though I like the way Singapore teaches multiplication next to division... but I found that it really didn't have enough practice for me to feel comfortable using it.

 

With the Singapore program, they intend for you to use the extra books for practice (EP/IP and CWP). I looked at SM in person this past weekend, and yes, by themselves, the textbook/workbook didn't look like a lot of problems, but you add in the other books and you have a more appropriate amount.

 

I use MM, which has plenty of problems on one page (though that's what some people don't like about it - it overwhelms some children). Both teach mental math, like making 10s to add/subtract across a 10. Those mental math techniques are what is considered "special" about SM, though there are now several programs that teach it (MM, RS, MIF, etc.).

 

Note that SM (and the others mentioned) *also* teach the standard algorithm, so you may not see the differences until you get to a section that specifically teaches mental math. Also, some of the mental math might be in the SM HIG, so if you didn't have that, you would need it also.

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Singapore math U.S.Ed. as Part of a math curriculum offers only a limited number of topics that are spiraled or returned to with ever increasing depth. Another objective observation is the four basic operations are introduced with their inverse. For example addition is followed immediately by subtraction which subjectively is what a logical or reason based program should do to provide mental pegs to hang ideas to, could also be called scaffolding.

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Singapore math U.S.Ed. as Part of a math curriculum offers only a limited number of topics that are spiraled or returned to with ever increasing depth. Another objective observation is the four basic operations are introduced with their inverse. For example addition is followed immediately by subtraction which subjectively is what a logical or reason based program should do to provide mental pegs to hang ideas to, could also be called scaffolding.

 

:iagree:

 

Two things work well for us with SM - one is it's a mastery approach (DS hated Saxon's repetition of things he mastered already) and the other is the mental math (DS loves doing mental math, so SM is a really good fit for his style).

 

I'll add we use Horizons as supplement (in addition SM's intensive practice and word problems) for additional perspective and a bit of spiraling - just enough to not make DS nuts with repetition. We don't do every page in Horizon's though.

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so, it is really important to supplement with SM's other workbooks or something else? If you do this how do you schedule it? Do they do one worksheet from the extra/intensive practice a day?

 

And, if I am understanding correctly, it is different in the fact that it teaches mental math? Is the mental math portion mainly for addition and subtraction? We did RS B along with horizons so my son has good mental math skills. Would it still be worth the switch? I kind of like the spiral approach of Horizons because he is constantly reviewing what he has learned so he doesn't forget. Will he get this repeated review with SM?

 

It is definately a hard program to get used to (teaching wise) after doing Horizons. I am having a hard time understanding what he is supposed to do on what day... and I have the HIG. We are using US edition. Should we get the standards instead? Is the HIG better for standards?

 

I guess after teaching with horizons from Kindergarten-almost third grade I am a little hesitant to switch and want to make sure it is worth the extra effort of switching and learning how to teach and schedule a new program.

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I keep hearing how different Singapore math is in the way it teaches. We are doing 1A with dd5 and 2A with ds7. I am not seeing yet why it is any different than Horizons ( what we just switched from) other than it uses more manipulatives and is mastery vs. spiral.

 

When people say it is so different, what are they referring to?

 

My list would be, though I haven't used Horizons:

 

1. Base 10 regrouping. You don't have to memorize math facts grater than 10 becuase you just change the problem to be base 10. When I do 12-9 I think 10-9=1+2=3. No need to memorize it.

 

2. Mental math focus. The problems are purposely written horizontally to encourage a child to figure it out mentally rather than use traditional methods.

 

3. Bar Graphs. Singapore has a huge focus on critical thinking in math. Using what you know to figure out what you don't know. If you look at studies between US math teacher and Asian math teacher the Asian teachers have less education, but can do more with what they know. Bar graphs use visual representations to do algebra type work. This enables the child to apply math better and really think about math instead of looking something that fits into a nice neat formula.

 

What to use depends on the child. I use the Primary text, Intensive Practice and World Challenge Problems. Singapore is written for the math intuitive, so I am sure that doesn't help.

 

Could it be that it is just easy right now? You are teaching it fine, but just worried you are missing something? Is your child struggling with concepts? Given you have done RS B and Singapore 3 has a focus on place value I would assume it will be pretty easy. I would spend extra time on anything including the Bar diagrams, and make sure to nail that. This is the level that introduces them and shortly they will expect the child to draw them on their own.

 

Heather

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With the Singapore program, they intend for you to use the extra books for practice (EP/IP and CWP). I looked at SM in person this past weekend, and yes, by themselves, the textbook/workbook didn't look like a lot of problems, but you add in the other books and you have a more appropriate amount.

 

Could you point me in the right direction? I'd like to see what I missed so I can be sure that I do in fact want to go with Horizons for my family until the end of time. LOL! This year was my year to test out one of the programs so I could make a decision and start investing in all the non-consumables for all four of my kids for the future.

 

Thanks!

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Could you point me in the right direction? I'd like to see what I missed so I can be sure that I do in fact want to go with Horizons for my family until the end of time. LOL! This year was my year to test out one of the programs so I could make a decision and start investing in all the non-consumables for all four of my kids for the future.

 

Thanks!

 

The Singapore materials are somewhat à la cart.

 

The core books are the Textbook and Workbook.

 

Then there are the HIGs (Home Instructors Guides).

 

Then there are two very different "practice book options."

 

The Extra Practice books (disclaimer I have never seen one) are more basic problems at are at the same level as the workbooks and are designed for students who need more practice at a basic level.

 

The Intensive Practice books raise the bar significantly in terms of challenge and difficulty. These are sometimes done "behind" for that reason. For many the IPs are their favorite part of Singapore. There are no "Standards Edition" versions of IPs yet as this series if fairly new, so one needs to use the US Edition IPs with the SE Textbook/Workbook if you choose the Standards Edition which has improved HIGs and is what I would recommend.

 

The CWPs. These are the famous Singapore Word Problem books that teach problem solving via a bar-diagram method. These are also done "behind" by many users.

 

So using all 5 parts would be the total package. Some people do it all, others use fewer components.

 

I hope that helps.

 

Bill

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Most helpful! Thank you so much. :)

 

I will confirm what Bill said.

 

Many people only do the primary texts, it wouldn't be enough practice here, plus I adore the critical thinking in the IP and CWP books, so we use all three. I don't use the extra practice books at all.

 

Heather

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I will confirm what Bill said.

 

Many people only do the primary texts, it wouldn't be enough practice here, plus I adore the critical thinking in the IP and CWP books, so we use all three. I don't use the extra practice books at all.

 

Heather

 

Heather,

 

In your experience with SP do you think that using ONLY the primary texts (workbooks) IS enough practice for some kids?? Do you think that there are possibly some kiddos that will thrive using just the workbook portion of SP (along with teaching from the text and possibly HIG ideas)? Was Singapore designed this way?

 

I guess I'm wondering WHY the IP and CWP exist. If they are "optional" and one opts out of using them is Singapore math still a fantastic option?

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The Singapore materials are somewhat à la cart.

 

The core books are the Textbook and Workbook.

 

Then there are the HIGs (Home Instructors Guides).

 

Then there are two very different "practice book options."

 

The Extra Practice books (disclaimer I have never seen one) are more basic problems at are at the same level as the workbooks and are designed for students who need more practice at a basic level.

 

The Intensive Practice books raise the bar significantly in terms of challenge and difficulty. These are sometimes done "behind" for that reason. For many the IPs are their favorite part of Singapore. There are no "Standards Edition" versions of IPs yet as this series if fairly new, so one needs to use the US Edition IPs with the SE Textbook/Workbook if you choose the Standards Edition which has improved HIGs and is what I would recommend.

 

The CWPs. These are the famous Singapore Word Problem books that teach problem solving via a bar-diagram method. These are also done "behind" by many users.

 

So using all 5 parts would be the total package. Some people do it all, others use fewer components.

 

I hope that helps.

 

Bill

 

Bill,

 

I have a full cart waiting to be purchased (containing Miquon and Singapore materials) but I'm holding out due to a few more questions.

 

I have several kiddos that will likely use the CWP and IP books (these are going to be supplemental whether or not the child uses Math Mammoth or SP). Can they be used in a non consumable fashion (i.e. on a whiteboard or on paper) or is it ideal that each child uses up their own copy of that workbook? It gets so pricey with so many "extras" for multiple kids.

 

Thoughts??

 

Heather (Siloam), I'd love to hear your thoughts on this as well. I know you are using SP with four kids and you love the supplements. :001_smile:

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I have several kiddos that will likely use the CWP and IP books (these are going to be supplemental whether or not the child uses Math Mammoth or SP). Can they be used in a non consumable fashion (i.e. on a whiteboard or on paper) or is it ideal that each child uses up their own copy of that workbook? It gets so pricey with so many "extras" for multiple kids.

 

 

We've used the old versions of CWP. I haven't seen the new ones.

They'd work fine on a notebook or separate paper. In many cases, it might even be better that way. There really isn't enough space in the book itself.

 

For the IP, I think it'd be possible to write on separate paper, but it'd be a bit more tricky. There are some problems in 4B (looking at right now) that involve symmetry, so those would need tracing paper or something else to not write in the book. I think it's easier to do IP in the book.

 

The one thing I'm hating about the IP books is how they don't open flat or even stay open. I'm off to Staples to get spines cut off and books spiral bound.

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OK, now I am seeing a difference. lol

My poor kiddo was in tears yesterday after doing some of the word problems in 2A. It was the review 5 in the workbook. He was supposed to figure out if he needed to add, subtract, divide, or multiply. He kept reading the problem and telling me the answer (the right answer) but he couldn't figure out how he got it. He kept saying I just know Mom I don't know how. Poor guy it was a frustrating hour for us.

 

I am really wondering if this is the right fit for him, as he was flying through horizons and enjoying it. I just don't like the teachers instructions for horizons.

 

Maybe I just need to give him more practice with the word problems. Maybe get the CWP book? I don't know. I am wondering if I wasted the money. I want him to enjoy math not dread it.

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I keep hearing how different Singapore math is in the way it teaches. We are doing 1A with dd5 and 2A with ds7. I am not seeing yet why it is any different than Horizons ( what we just switched from) other than it uses more manipulatives and is mastery vs. spiral.

 

When people say it is so different, what are they referring to?

 

My philosophy is if Horizons is working for you then stick with it. I see that people go around seeing something is popular and then they switch. One of the major reason why you homeschool is to focus on your child's needs. It is extremely important especially in math. Understand the way your child learns something not what is popular on the Well Trained Mind boards. It is good to see what is popular in order to know what is working for others, but if a program is working for you, why change?

 

If your child is grasping mathematical concepts and understands basic operations, is there a reason to change?

 

I think the well-known programs like Horizons, Singapore, and Saxon are tried and true programs.

 

Blessings,

Karen

http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/testimony

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Yes, those who are math, and who have a good memory. Average students with a good memory would also do fine. For average students without a good memory I would want to do at least one additional text on hand, if nothing else than for problem areas. For those who don't get math or who have LD's you probably want all of them. Practice makes perfect. :D

 

You can find a lot more people who are Sonlight users who only do the primary texts. They tend to be more relaxed than WTM users. WTM attracts a lot of...over achievers? Not a slam on either side, just an observation.

 

Heather

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He kept reading the problem and telling me the answer (the right answer) but he couldn't figure out how he got it. He kept saying I just know Mom I don't know how. Poor guy it was a frustrating hour for us.

 

 

Bar diagrams. IMO, and with my son, IME, just because you "get" the answer doesn't mean you'll be able to just "get" the answer when you move to the next level of difficulty.

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The Extra Practice books (disclaimer I have never seen one) are more basic problems at are at the same level as the workbooks and are designed for students who need more practice at a basic level.

 

 

 

The US edition EP is more of the same kind of questions one finds in the US workbook. The Standards EP has some introductory explanations, as I suspect were done in the Standards TEXT ( and maybe the workbook). So, I get the US edition (I like the thin, lithe look and feel) of text and WB and the STandards EP. If we need EP, I like a slightly different set of examples for kiddo and me. If we don't need EP on a given topic, we skip it in the EP book.

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Bill,

 

I have a full cart waiting to be purchased (containing Miquon and Singapore materials) but I'm holding out due to a few more questions.

 

I have several kiddos that will likely use the CWP and IP books (these are going to be supplemental whether or not the child uses Math Mammoth or SP). Can they be used in a non consumable fashion (i.e. on a whiteboard or on paper) or is it ideal that each child uses up their own copy of that workbook? It gets so pricey with so many "extras" for multiple kids.

 

Thoughts??

 

 

Based on the old CWPs I think it would be possible to do them on a separate paper or white-board. The IPs not really.

 

Bill

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Bar diagrams. IMO, and with my son, IME, just because you "get" the answer doesn't mean you'll be able to just "get" the answer when you move to the next level of difficulty.

 

:iagree:

 

 

The US edition EP is more of the same kind of questions one finds in the US workbook. The Standards EP has some introductory explanations, as I suspect were done in the Standards TEXT ( and maybe the workbook). So, I get the US edition (I like the thin, lithe look and feel) of text and WB and the STandards EP. If we need EP, I like a slightly different set of examples for kiddo and me. If we don't need EP on a given topic, we skip it in the EP book.

 

Good to know.

 

Bill

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. He kept reading the problem and telling me the answer (the right answer) but he couldn't figure out how he got it. He kept saying I just know Mom I don't know how. Poor guy it was a frustrating hour for us.

 

My dd had the EXACT same problem.. It only lasted for a week or two. I wondered if the material was too advanced or difficult for her and almost switched when she was going through it. I am glad I stuck with SM because she has made wonderful progress and loves SM now.(so do I) If your child was flying through Horizons then the material may have too easy. My dd would fly through CLE math and get 100's on it but couldn't apply the concepts elsewhere. SM makes her think. If you like it....I would hold off and see.....sometimes things take a bit longer to click. When it does click...wow! What a difference.

 

Penny

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Bill,

 

I have a full cart waiting to be purchased (containing Miquon and Singapore materials) but I'm holding out due to a few more questions.

 

I have several kiddos that will likely use the CWP and IP books (these are going to be supplemental whether or not the child uses Math Mammoth or SP). Can they be used in a non consumable fashion (i.e. on a whiteboard or on paper) or is it ideal that each child uses up their own copy of that workbook? It gets so pricey with so many "extras" for multiple kids.

 

Thoughts??

 

Heather (Siloam), I'd love to hear your thoughts on this as well. I know you are using SP with four kids and you love the supplements. :001_smile:

 

I have two dc. I fit a plastic page protector (just cut open one side) on the SM IP page and older ds writes on it with dry erase pen or wet erase pen. When he is done, I check the work and we wipe off the plastic sheet to be used for another day. I usually have 5 plastic page protectors done this way to be used, also for Rod and Staff English. We use this for the SM textbooks and workbooks, too. My younger ds will write right in the workbook because I don't need to save it anymore. This reduces cost and trouble of buying a second set. Sometimes dc chooses to do it in his notebook.

I prefer the page protectors because it is easier for the dc to stay on task than the notebook. Usually IP and CWP both provide enough space for the kids to solve the problems, so page protectors work well.

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If your child was flying through Horizons then the material may have too easy.

 

That's a really good point. When I started my son on his new math program after not being challenged at all in his old one, when he got to the first thing that was actually "new" to him, he got a bit stressed out, melted down, etc. It was his first time to encounter new math that had to be taught to him! :tongue_smilie:We pushed on, and now he's much better about handling such situations. He just had to learn how to deal with material that was new and made him actually think.

 

My son also often does word problems in his head. I'm starting to teach him how to show his work. When he gives me the right answer, I have him walk me through it, and if he's not sure the first step, I help him out, and we go from there. Basically, I'm teaching him how to show his work.

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I have two dc. I fit a plastic page protector (just cut open one side) on the SM IP page and older ds writes on it with dry erase pen or wet erase pen. When he is done, I check the work and we wipe off the plastic sheet to be used for another day. I usually have 5 plastic page protectors done this way to be used, also for Rod and Staff English. We use this for the SM textbooks and workbooks, too. My younger ds will write right in the workbook because I don't need to save it anymore. This reduces cost and trouble of buying a second set. Sometimes dc chooses to do it in his notebook.

I prefer the page protectors because it is easier for the dc to stay on task than the notebook. Usually IP and CWP both provide enough space for the kids to solve the problems, so page protectors work well.

:lol: What a great idea! I'm going to try it. Thanks for sharing.

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Maybe I am in the minority, but I don't think kids have to show their work at that age. Later, yes, when other skills and maturity in expressing themselves catch up. And they can easily learn later. Just because they don't learn how to show their work at 7 or 8 does not meant they won't learn when they are 14 or 15 and taking classes at the Community College or somewhere where they have to, or just before that to prepare them.

 

Talk about it some, but don't push it. If they are having trouble expressing themselves, explaining how they got an answer, that will come when they are older.

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Maybe I am in the minority, but I don't think kids have to show their work at that age. Later, yes, when other skills and maturity in expressing themselves catch up..

 

Well, it is certainly not a fatal error. Once the wall is hit, backtracking is always possible. My son's pride was bruised, but nothing wrong with that either. :)

 

(BTW, I wasn't talking about laboriously writing out to "show" one's work. I mean more along the lines of saying "You subtract to get that answer" instead of a correct, but idiot-savantish "Seven" as the answer.)

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I have several kiddos that will likely use the CWP and IP books (these are going to be supplemental whether or not the child uses Math Mammoth or SP). Can they be used in a non consumable fashion (i.e. on a whiteboard or on paper) or is it ideal that each child uses up their own copy of that workbook? It gets so pricey with so many "extras" for multiple kids.

 

Thoughts??

 

Heather (Siloam), I'd love to hear your thoughts on this as well. I know you are using SP with four kids and you love the supplements. :001_smile:

My solution would be to pull the book apart and put it in page protectors. But that only works if you give the child a permanent marker to write with. I have had problems with both wet and dry erase markers erasing before I could check their work.

 

I then have to pay one of the kids to go in and use a wet erase marker, going over all the permanent marker to erase it. It does come all nice and clean, it just takes a little time.

 

If you don't want to do that, I don't see why they couldn't do their work on graph paper, or a white board. It would be inconvenient, but not impossible.

 

Heather

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OK, now I am seeing a difference. lol

My poor kiddo was in tears yesterday after doing some of the word problems in 2A. It was the review 5 in the workbook. He was supposed to figure out if he needed to add, subtract, divide, or multiply. He kept reading the problem and telling me the answer (the right answer) but he couldn't figure out how he got it. He kept saying I just know Mom I don't know how. Poor guy it was a frustrating hour for us.

 

I am really wondering if this is the right fit for him, as he was flying through horizons and enjoying it. I just don't like the teachers instructions for horizons.

 

Maybe I just need to give him more practice with the word problems. Maybe get the CWP book? I don't know. I am wondering if I wasted the money. I want him to enjoy math not dread it.

 

My kids do this occasionally too, except we use Rightstart. Getting my boys to explain is always a struggle. I think for my boys its combo of maturity and critical thinking (which sometimes brings tears and frustration). It just hurts the brain sometimes. When this happens, I will ask him to show me with manipulatives, which can help lots, when explaining something. Other times, for example, I will ask for the "thinking number" we call it (34 + 17 = thinking number 44 (34+10) then ask for the final answer, which would be 51. So we will break it down so he can better explain it. RS spends time making sure the kids can explain their answers, so we know they understand the concept, but I think for some kiddos, this is frustrating. We sometimes have tears, but a lot comes because we are stretching the brain. I find that they are always moving and progressing. When they get fustrated, I either approach it different, come back to it, or let them settle down until they are ready. I know Singapore is very similar to lots of the RS concepts (we supplement with them CWP only) so I hope I've added to the conversation. :001_smile:

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Maybe I am in the minority, but I don't think kids have to show their work at that age. Later, yes, when other skills and maturity in expressing themselves catch up. And they can easily learn later. Just because they don't learn how to show their work at 7 or 8 does not meant they won't learn when they are 14 or 15 and taking classes at the Community College or somewhere where they have to, or just before that to prepare them.

 

Talk about it some, but don't push it. If they are having trouble expressing themselves, explaining how they got an answer, that will come when they are older.

 

I didn't make my oldest show her work because it was hard for her, and now as a 7th grader who can do simple algebra in her head I have her doing basic math because she freezes on more difficult algebra problems, the ones she can't just do it her mind. She doesn't know how to get it on paper, so we had to take a huge step back and work on that.

 

All my younger kids now show their work, like it or not, which I am finding also helps with correcting their work. I can see if it was just a calculation error or if the way the approached the problem was wrong. I don't have to just mark the whole thing wrong. They are liking it better as well, now because they only have to re-do the wrong part.

 

I used to think it was no big deal, but now I think it is very important.

 

Heather

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