Talk me down, please, re: my 4yo

[Renee in NC]

History - 4 older brothers with some level of dyslexia, 1 sister with none, 1 language-delayed 2yo to be determined.

 

My 4yo is in Pre-K through the FL VPK program. I was talking to the director of the montessori school where she attends about Primary Phonics where she mentioned that many of the VPK students are through Level 2. I knew that my dd's teacher had mentioned working on the alphabet and letter sounds with her (which we have.) So, I asked her teacher how it was going.

 

She hemmed and hawed a little bit, so I told her I was interested because of the family history. She told me I definitely needed to watch her.:crying:

 

She's watched the Letter Factory over and over. She plays starfall. She is read to and "reads" to other people (tells stories based on the pictures.) She has a large vocabulary, but often mispronounces words (including the ever present "grill" for girl - all of my boys have had this as well.) She doesn't know her letters, any of the sounds, and can't write her name (or many letters.) She wasn't language delayed, didn't stutter (3 of the 4 boys did), and sometimes rhymes words (but won't give me a rhyming word if I ask her.) She can count, but can't name the numbers. She knows some colors accurately, but always gives a color word when asked what color something is (all of my boys had issues with colors.)

 

Talk me down, please. I don't think I could handle it again, especially considering the 2yo is language delayed. And, the 4yo has raging, screaming, all out temper tantrums like the 9yo, and obvious sensory issues (hypersensitive - she is naked most of the time!) She is the one that I have said can't ever, ever be unsupervised because she will do *crazy* things.

 

Is it possible that only my 6yo avoided this genetic mixture? (ADD comes from me and BOTH of my parents, dyslexia on both sides of my family, dh is most likely dyslexic, and has obvious working memory issues, but adopted, so we don't know family history.)

 

Help? Please? I am just hypersensitive to this due to all we've gone through, right?:001_huh:

[Dobela]

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: I don't have any answers, but I will listen all you need me to.

[pdalley]

:grouphug:

 

I can't talk you down but I can empathize. The second diagnosis hit me much much harder than the oldest's did. I knew the youngest was different literally from the minute he was born. (The kid has a screech that would literally peel paint).

[ElizabethB]

:grouphug:

 

Girls have a better language brain, so her problems should be less severe if she does have them.

 

Keep playing that frog movie. If you have to repeat something 1,000,000 times, better a talking frog than you.

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

[Renee in NC]

:grouphug:

 

I can't talk you down but I can empathize. The second diagnosis hit me much much harder than the oldest's did. I knew the youngest was different literally from the minute he was born. (The kid has a screech that would literally peel paint).

 

So does my 4yo.:001_huh: YIKES! She is getting better at not doing it in public, at least.

 

I really, really wanted someone to tell me, "Oh, don't worry. I know she is going to be just fine!":tongue_smilie:

Edited February 28, 2011 by Renee in FL

[pdalley]

They're all going to be better than fine. They have loving involved parents who are determined to provide what they need.

[Renee in NC]

They're all going to be better than fine. They have loving involved parents who are determined to provide what they need.

 

Thank you. That was very diplomatic of you. :lol:

[merry gardens]

History - 4 older brothers with some level of dyslexia, 1 sister with none, 1 language-delayed 2yo to be determined.

 

My 4yo is in Pre-K through the FL VPK program. I was talking to the director of the montessori school where she attends about Primary Phonics where she mentioned that many of the VPK students are through Level 2. I knew that my dd's teacher had mentioned working on the alphabet and letter sounds with her (which we have.) So, I asked her teacher how it was going.

 

She hemmed and hawed a little bit, so I told her I was interested because of the family history. She told me I definitely needed to watch her.:crying:

 

She's watched the Letter Factory over and over. She plays starfall. She is read to and "reads" to other people (tells stories based on the pictures.) She has a large vocabulary, but often mispronounces words (including the ever present "grill" for girl - all of my boys have had this as well.) She doesn't know her letters, any of the sounds, and can't write her name (or many letters.) She wasn't language delayed, didn't stutter (3 of the 4 boys did), and sometimes rhymes words (but won't give me a rhyming word if I ask her.) She can count, but can't name the numbers. She knows some colors accurately, but always gives a color word when asked what color something is (all of my boys had issues with colors.)

 

Talk me down, please. I don't think I could handle it again, especially considering the 2yo is language delayed. And, the 4yo has raging, screaming, all out temper tantrums like the 9yo, and obvious sensory issues (hypersensitive - she is naked most of the time!) She is the one that I have said can't ever, ever be unsupervised because she will do *crazy* things.

 

Is it possible that only my 6yo avoided this genetic mixture? (ADD comes from me and BOTH of my parents, dyslexia on both sides of my family, dh is most likely dyslexic, and has obvious working memory issues, but adopted, so we don't know family history.)

 

Help? Please? I am just hypersensitive to this due to all we've gone through, right?:001_huh:

:grouphug:

 

 

The good news is you have already started a small collection of special education materials and significant training. Wouldn't it be a pity to "waste" everything you're learning by only using it on the older boys? ;)

(Believe me, I sympathize with you! :grouphug: Just trying to look at the bright side. )

 

Renee- try to get your hands on a LiPS manual or maybe ask the pre-school if they have anything like that they can do with her! It's a great way to introduce letter sounds and shapes. I started LiPS with my five year old when she was four. I had the manual and some materials already, and I recognized some of her mispronunciations looked like phonemic awareness problems. We take it really easy and slow. At that age, a little remediation and "school work" goes a long way. I also keep my previously used levels of Barton, because I plan to use them again with her.

[VinNY]

Ok deep breath..she is 4. Knowing what you know, plan on working with her every day. I also can't say enough about LIPS. I will be using this with my 5yr old this summer..still using it with my 9yrold dd. If you can get a hold of the manual used or cheap, you can pull together the felt and blocks yourself. I have extra sheets of the cling ons for the mouth pictures etc. PM me if you decide you need them.

[Renee in NC]

Ok deep breath..she is 4. Knowing what you know, plan on working with her every day. I also can't say enough about LIPS. I will be using this with my 5yr old this summer..still using it with my 9yrold dd. If you can get a hold of the manual used or cheap, you can pull together the felt and blocks yourself. I have extra sheets of the cling ons for the mouth pictures etc. PM me if you decide you need them.

 

Thanks! My 8yo needs LiPS, but I have found a speech therapy place that has several LiPS trained SLPs and does home visits!:D Maybe I can have her "sit in" on the lesson (I don't know that she would qualify herself.)

[ChristineMM]

With my oldest child who was homeschooled since birth, I chose to gently introduce names of letters matching to sight of them and same with numbers at age 4. I used simple games that my son responded to, Thomas the Tank Engine puzzle thing with one letter on one side and an item on the other. We had a giant floor puzzle train. (He loved trains that's why I picked those.) I talked about the puzzles and the letter shapes and showed them to him in a light fun way. I chattered on and on and he listened.

 

I didn't start phonics until after K started age 5 yr 1 month but he was not ready. But he had all the signs of reading readiness which was odd! I kept taking out Alpha PHonics & putting away then finally at age 5 yr 9 mo (april) it started to click. I used that intensive phonics method abt 5-10 mins a day, broke for summer, then restarted in Sept and he finished in fall of his grade 1 homeschool year. With him it was always slow going but once he got the decoding it was just fine. I tried to end the lessons on a positive note rahter than pushing too hard then having him cry and end on a sour note.

 

At age 12, I realized he had some other struggles and I found he has every other symptom of dyslexia on the lists. He also has signs of dysgraphia. And was treated for an eye tracking visual processing disorder and tests out now at chronological age level (phew) after 2 full years of treatments.

 

(He is 13 now. The issues now are mostly self-organization, time management, and management of stuff like co-op homework, where he left his shoes etc.)

 

In a book published last year The Dyslexia Checklist, they recommended intensive systematic phonics and claim it works for dyslexic kids. My confusion over dyslexia was my son didn't have any of the early symptoms just seemed 'not yet ready to read' at age 4 or young-5. Yet I used that method (Alpha PHonics) and he did learn and did go on to love reading. His blip was with the visual processing disorder that showed up in grade 3 then was diagnosed in grade 5 and "cured" in grade 7. I don't know if I saved years of struggle *because* I chose a systematic phonics method or not.

 

I also note my mother is severely dyslexic and due to the horrid treatment in the schools in the 1950s and 1960s she is still traumatized and pretty much living a life without reading the printed word. Yet she has gifts in other areas, very creative and successful at creative endeavors, like she doesn't just grow AFrican Violets she creates her own hybrids and shows them for prizes. I feel badly for her struggles and was curious about dyslexia and that's why I read the book I mentioned then realized my own son had so many symptoms too!

 

BTW that son of mine had many sensory issues in his early years and when I read Is This Your Child? by Dr. Doris Rapp I changed his diet and most all of it went away. He is sensitive to dairy and then later soy and doesn't fare well with corn syrup either. Now that he's older he's back on dairy and doesn't eat much to be honest. Soy continues to be a problem (i.e. bakery breads with soy flour, soy lecthicin etc.)

 

---

 

My 2nd kid was teaching himself at age 3.5 to read and on his 4th birthday was given Letter Factory (it was brand new then) and he started sounding out on his own. He has zero symptoms of any LD and was fluently reading at young age 4. He is not a typical kid, he's an early learner.

 

___

 

Since I have dealt with LDs I understand where you are coming from. I don't quite know what to tell you other than I'm sorry you are going through this.

 

Whether your 4 yr old has dyslexia or not doing so much to try to push the learning might be just too much for her. I'm a firm believer in small chunks of time in worthwhile work like 5-10 mins of concentrated paying attention learning of letters then that's it for the day.

 

Play bingo and help her find the numbers and read left to right.

 

Talk about the temperature if your car has a digital readout and show the numbers and reading left to right.

 

Do simple ABC puzzles.

 

Do some of those fun Montessori things like sandpaper letters. Make clay letters etc etc

 

But do just a little each day.

 

Some kids just need more time.

 

---

 

You may also want to check out the website of Dianne Craft for articles & info abt special needs and the biology of behavior and the neurological issues with sensory etc.

 

If you are a homeschooler who is an HSLDA member you can call their special ed hotline for free for advice. Craft is one of the ones who takes the calls.

 

Your daughter has symptoms of what some call an overstimulated neurological system. When they are at the point of tearing their clothes off and wanting to be naked their nervous system is very touchy and sensitive and in a bad hyper-mode, over-stimulated from something, from what I have learned from Craft and other sources. Often changing some things really helps, such as changing the diet or adding in supplements for something they are lacking (i.e. essential fatty acids like Omega 3's) but dont' take my word for it go check out Dianne Craft's site.

 

HTH

[Stacy in NJ]

I wouldn't freak out about it. Since she's very verbal, I'd do phonemic awareness games with her. These are pre-reading skills. Here's a great cheap workbook of games. Read through it and incorporate a few of the games a few times per week. http://www.amazon.com/Phonemic-Awareness-Activities-Reading-Success/dp/0590372319/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1298947419&sr=1-1

 

Phonemic awareness needs to be fully developed before reading can happen. Once she's able to manipulate the sounds then move on to learning letters.

[Renee in NC]

I wouldn't freak out about it. Since she's very verbal, I'd do phonemic awareness games with her. These are pre-reading skills. Here's a great cheap workbook of games. Read through it and incorporate a few of the games a few times per week. http://www.amazon.com/Phonemic-Awareness-Activities-Reading-Success/dp/0590372319/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1298947419&sr=1-1

 

Phonemic awareness needs to be fully developed before reading can happen. Once she's able to manipulate the sounds then move on to learning letters.

 

That's what dh and I discussed on the phone earlier. Honestly, if everyone else was remediated then it wouldn't be so bad. However, I'll have 2 doing Barton, 2 learning letters and letter sounds (and developing phonemic awareness), and 1 who thankfully reads/writes/spells above grade level!!! I can't lump the 8yo in with the 4yo because he'd be so embarrassed.

 

Systematic. Small goals. 1,0001 repetitions. I know how to do this. :001_unsure:

 

I have a good phonemic awareness book already and she is a motivated student (she loves to do worksheets, flashcards, etc.)

[ElizabethB]

Systematic. Small goals. 1,0001 repetitions. I know how to do this. :001_unsure:

.)

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

[Momofeat]

I wouldn't freak out about it. Since she's very verbal, I'd do phonemic awareness games with her. These are pre-reading skills. Here's a great cheap workbook of games. Read through it and incorporate a few of the games a few times per week. http://www.amazon.com/Phonemic-Awareness-Activities-Reading-Success/dp/0590372319/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1298947419&sr=1-1

 

Phonemic awareness needs to be fully developed before reading can happen. Once she's able to manipulate the sounds then move on to learning letters.

 

I 2nd this! Many of the skills you were concerned about really are not necessary for a 4yo. Take a deep breath, focus on phonemic awareness, and remember that many children who do not have dyslexia cannot recognize letters or numbers at age 4. She is going to be okay.

[LittleIzumi]

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

[Renee in NC]

I 2nd this! Many of the skills you were concerned about really are not necessary for a 4yo. Take a deep breath, focus on phonemic awareness, and remember that many children who do not have dyslexia cannot recognize letters or numbers at age 4. She is going to be okay.

 

Thanks. I hope you are right!

[razorbackmama]

I'm not sure how "4" she is (just turned or close to 5), but my dd who is turning 4 in June doesn't recognize her letters/numbers at ALL. And writing her name? Forget it. She does this pretend "writing" scribble thing, but that's it.

[Dobela]

I'm not sure how "4" she is (just turned or close to 5), but my dd who is turning 4 in June doesn't recognize her letters/numbers at ALL. And writing her name? Forget it. She does this pretend "writing" scribble thing, but that's it.

My dd will be 4 in 26 days. This describes her very well.

[Renee in NC]

I'm not sure how "4" she is (just turned or close to 5), but my dd who is turning 4 in June doesn't recognize her letters/numbers at ALL. And writing her name? Forget it. She does this pretend "writing" scribble thing, but that's it.

 

She'll be 5 at the end of June, so she is younger than most in her Pre-K class. I know, deep breath, right?:tongue_smilie: I just figured she would be further than she is since she *is* in an academic preschool program and other kids are. Last year, 93% of their VPK graduates knew all their letters and letter sounds (I know it's crazy, but the state does end of year tests to measure effectiveness.) That, coupled with the family history just freaked me out a little bit.

 

She'll be fine. I just have to *relax*!:lol:

[Dobela]

She'll be 5 at the end of June, so she is younger than most in her Pre-K class. I know, deep breath, right?:tongue_smilie: I just figured she would be further than she is since she *is* in an academic preschool program and other kids are. Last year, 93% of their VPK graduates knew all their letters and letter sounds (I know it's crazy, but the state does end of year tests to measure effectiveness.) That, coupled with the family history just freaked me out a little bit.

 

She'll be fine. I just have to *relax*!:lol:

If you look up standards at places like NAEYC and other early childhood associations, they would consider her still in the 'normal' range for her age.

[cjbeach]

I wonder if the MOntessori is just pressing a lot more than she's ready for right now, as she is on the younger side of the VPK class???

FWIW, my kiddos did VPK @ a local Montessori with great scores but they had been there since 2yo. By the time VPK rolled around they were beyond the Red Letter Book and ready for something more. Our Montessori started letter recognition with sounds in the toddler class. By the time they reached the primary classroom they were plowing through phonics and working on sight words (as they jumped on the trampoline), or through puzzles.

I loved our Montessori deeply. I couldn't have been more please with Montessori in the Toddler and Primary years. My son was also in the Elementary classroom for a year.

I'd take the advice and keep it warm, then continue to just keep up her skills at home a bit. My VPK-age kiddo loves ETC. It worked well for my 2 little ones post-MOntessori.

[AmyinMD]

My 4 yo doesn't know her letter sounds or how to write her name either. She can do the L (the first letter) but that's it. She thinks anything that starts with L is her name.

 

I'd try not to be too worried yet. A friend of mine with a dd in preschool got similar info recently about her dd. Her dd has a July birthday and will be a very young K in the fall as well.

[Renee in NC]

I wonder if the MOntessori is just pressing a lot more than she's ready for right now, as she is on the younger side of the VPK class???

FWIW, my kiddos did VPK @ a local Montessori with great scores but they had been there since 2yo. By the time VPK rolled around they were beyond the Red Letter Book and ready for something more. Our Montessori started letter recognition with sounds in the toddler class. By the time they reached the primary classroom they were plowing through phonics and working on sight words (as they jumped on the trampoline), or through puzzles.

I loved our Montessori deeply. I couldn't have been more please with Montessori in the Toddler and Primary years. My son was also in the Elementary classroom for a year.

I'd take the advice and keep it warm, then continue to just keep up her skills at home a bit. My VPK-age kiddo loves ETC. It worked well for my 2 little ones post-MOntessori.

 

Reading your description, I am pretty sure we're talking about the same school.;) I hadn't thought about the fact that some of those kids have been there since toddler years and I bet most of the ones reading are the ones in the all day program.

 

Thanks for all the reassurance!

[cjbeach]

Reading your description, I am pretty sure we're talking about the same school.;) I hadn't thought about the fact that some of those kids have been there since toddler years and I bet most of the ones reading are the ones in the all day program.

 

Thanks for all the reassurance!

Ok, my dd WAS in that school 16-20ish months. In those early years they did "line time" where the toddler class stood in line and one-by-one approached the teacher as she held up letters and the child said the sound of the letter. I want to say they traced the letter with their finger as well but I may be confusing Montessori schools, lol.:001_huh: I do remember "line time" there though because it was my dd's first experience out of the home.

[Sonshine]

Quite a few of my kids didn't know their letters or sounds at all at age 4. They took a lot of repetition and some creative ways to teach. One is 10 and still isn't a strong reader (but is probably on grade level - she is past the Junie B Jones type of books) and may have some type of mild dyslexia. With the others, how well they knew their letters and/or sounds at age 4 almost seems to have a reverse relationship to who was a strong reader later on. One son, who couldn't read any words until age 6, got a very high score on the SAT and is going to major in English. Another was the same way and now teaches the SAT for a major test prep company. Another had a hard time learning to read and the other day read A Hiding Place in two days (she voluntarily reads many books).

 

I just kept feeding them the material and they gradually learned to recognize their letters and read. Two picked up reading very quickly at age 4 - and one of those two is not as strong of a reader now as her siblings who take longer to learn. I wouldn't worry about it - just keep presenting the material in small doses as suggested. I don't think not recognizing letters at age 4 means anything at all.