Panicking a bit about math w/ 3rd grader...

[I.Dup.]

I decided to do MUS Beta with my 3rd grader this year since she didn't seem to retain anything from Singapore 2a/2b last year. :glare: I think the conceptual leaps in Singapore were too much for her.

 

We zipped through MUS Beta, and were done with all of it minus a few lessons around Christmastime. The problem is, we haven't really done it at all since then. :blushing: I am just now getting out of my first trimester with baby #6 and we took a big "break" while I was feeling so crappy. Soooo we still have another 6 or so lessons to do in MUS Beta and we're closing in on the end of 3rd grade! I'm worried this will set her so far behind. I was hoping to get at least half of Gamma done this year too, but that's just not going to happen.

 

The problem is, this child HATES math and pouts and whines and carries on anytime she has to do a LITTLE bit of math. :banghead: I should have been more consistent with her, but I honestly get sick of fighting her about it. I am honestly very afraid of what the coming years hold as math gets harder when she hates it this much now. Part of me wants to just give up since I seriously doubt she will go into a field that requires much math......I've already switched curriculum 3 times (we did R&S, then Singapore, now MUS) and she hates it no matter what.

 

Any suggestions? Have I let her get too far behind? :(

[CandaceC]

Well, I can honestly tell you that I have been in your same position! Only I wasn't pregnant so I had NO EXCUSE!! :lol:

 

We hated math. All of us.

 

Til now...

 

Teaching Textbooks has saved our school day and our relationship. :) It does all the teaching for me!! I'm totally out of the picture unless they need help with a problem here or there...which I can handle.

 

I know you probably don't want to switch curriculums again, I didn't either...I had tried SO many!! But, thankfully, because this was totally computer based - it was so different from the others and it is working!!

 

We've been doing TT3 and are on the last week of lessons!! We will be starting TT4 in a few weeks!!

[Momling]

First of all, don't panic! Seriously... it's not going to be hard to catch up. Learning all elementary school math that you need to know will take an average 5 year old about 6 or 7 years. But start at 8 and it'd probably take 4 or 5 years... Start at 12 and it'll take like 2 years. When I taught in the juvenile justice system, I was able to get high school students from basic addition to pre-algebra in a year. You haven't doomed your daughter to a life of math failure.

 

I'd be sorely tempted to give RightStart B a try in your position. Then maybe move to Math Mammoth in the blue series (so grade level isn't an issue -- and just remediate skills one by one). Another option is TT -- Teaching Textbooks has done wonders for my daughter's opinion of math and it'd certainly free up some time for you, but, I worry a bit that she may miss the underlying concepts. TT (at least TT5) does a good job of teaching procedure, but is not so good at answering why it works or what it means. Alternatively, could you go back to Singapore? Maybe she just wasn't ready for it at the time. Maybe it'd be easier now?

[Lovedtodeath]

I decided to do MUS Beta with my 3rd grader this year since she didn't seem to retain anything from Singapore 2a/2b last year. :glare: I think the conceptual leaps in Singapore were too much for her.

 

We zipped through MUS Beta, and were done with all of it minus a few lessons around Christmastime. The problem is, we haven't really done it at all since then. :blushing: I am just now getting out of my first trimester with baby #6 and we took a big "break" while I was feeling so crappy. Soooo we still have another 6 or so lessons to do in MUS Beta and we're closing in on the end of 3rd grade! I'm worried this will set her so far behind. I was hoping to get at least half of Gamma done this year too, but that's just not going to happen.

 

The problem is, this child HATES math and pouts and whines and carries on anytime she has to do a LITTLE bit of math. :banghead: I should have been more consistent with her, but I honestly get sick of fighting her about it. I am honestly very afraid of what the coming years hold as math gets harder when she hates it this much now. Part of me wants to just give up since I seriously doubt she will go into a field that requires much math......I've already switched curriculum 3 times (we did R&S, then Singapore, now MUS) and she hates it no matter what.

 

Any suggestions? Have I let her get too far behind? :(

I don't worry about it at all. MM and Singapore have kids ready for Algebra way ahead of time. Abeka accelerates through third grade then basically does nothing but review for 3 years.

 

There is also the chance that she will graduate high school with less than 4 years of High School math and still be okay.

 

You are fine.

[I.Dup.]

Thank you all so much!!!!!!!!!!! I am just not going to stress about math with this child anymore. Like you all pointed out, she can catch up on these elementary concepts later on and she'll obviously never be a math whiz so this will never be her field of choice, I'm sure. Thank you!! I've been hearing a lot about TT lately, and I will check that out. I really loved Singapore, but she hated it, I will look into it again.

[PeterPan]

Behind is not the issue. The real issue here is finding a way to be consistent. If you're going to continue to have children (and thus continue to have pregnancy fatigue, postpartum fatigue, etc.), then you need to find a sensible way so that math gets done EVERY DAY. I've btdt on the brain is a sieve for math thing, and the biggest issue is to do it EVERY DAY. Now is the time. The past doesn't matter. All that matters is that you find something you can implement every single day, no matter how stinkin' terrible you feel.

 

In your shoes, I would look at CLE or Saxon. TT would be fine too, but that gets a bit pricey with that many kids. Look at CLE.

 

No one is faulting you for having down days. When it turns into day months, then you need a change. Btdt, believe me. Find something that can get done consistently, no matter what. My other question is whether this is your oldest and whether you have a work dynamic problem. Is she wanting you to sit with her or works differently under certain circumstances? Sometimes our expectations aren't realistic for the particular child, and sometimes we have to sort that out. Some kids are ready to sit and do math by themselves at this age, and some are the Sociable Sue or distractible or whatever types who really, really benefit from having a warm body beside them. It's unfortunate. It means you figure that out and put her beside you on the couch while you rest. It means you don't listen when somebody tells you their whiz kid does things all by themselves even though they're a year younger. You have to figure out the dynamic she needs to make it work. Are the others playing while she tries to work? Just things to sort out.

 

Consistent, plodding effort is what gets you there with these kids. She's way too young to say math doesn't matter for her. It does, and the results will add up with consistent effort. Mom-driven stuff (MUS, RS, etc.) might be great educationally, but it's just not practical for some people and situations. It sounds like it isnt' for yours. I would get very realistic and aim for consistency. Give her the placement test for CLE. If it puts her in the 1st grade level, do that. And do it every single day for the next three years. At the end she'll have covered 4-5 years of math, assuming you did math 5 days a week, year round, and she'll be back on grade level. It's consistency that gets you there.

[LauraKay28]

My dd8 was the same exact way! Getting through Beta was full of tears and pouting and complaining. Daily I heard from her that she hated math. I decided to try TT3 and wow......she ASKS to do her math!! Is this the same child? Really? I am so pleased! Part of it might be the "computer" is new to her since she doesn't play computer games or any kind of video games. But she is halfway through the program and we started it in January. For us, it is worth the money. Besides, I have 3 more kids coming behind her that can use it as well (I only use the cds, not the consumable workbook).

 

Hope you can find something that works!

[Mesa]

Yep I was in the same boat with my 8 yr old. (He's in 2nd grade) We tried Abeka, MUS, Singapore, Saxon and MM. He hated it all, always in tears and frustrated. I gave up and bought TT. I paired it up with whizz math . com (whizz is an asian math online game type program)

This combo has been perfect for him. I'm very happy with his progress, and attitude towards math.

[susie in tx]

Ya know, life can get in the way of teaching math. I had one dd that did all of RS D in a couple of months. She was older, and should have done that level years before, but it was ok.

 

We have had a crazy set of circumstances the last two years that have put my kids "behind". I've just not been able to hs consistently despite my best intentions or wishes. I think it will be fine. I'll do my best to be consistent with them, and they will continue to learn, whether I do math with them every day or not.

 

Sometimes, we can't control pregnancy or life events. We can't control sickness or health.

 

We can control being there for our kids.

 

3rd grade is young. Your child will "catch up".

[I.Dup.]

Behind is not the issue. The real issue here is finding a way to be consistent. If you're going to continue to have children (and thus continue to have pregnancy fatigue, postpartum fatigue, etc.), then you need to find a sensible way so that math gets done EVERY DAY. I've btdt on the brain is a sieve for math thing, and the biggest issue is to do it EVERY DAY. Now is the time. The past doesn't matter. All that matters is that you find something you can implement every single day, no matter how stinkin' terrible you feel.

 

In your shoes, I would look at CLE or Saxon. TT would be fine too, but that gets a bit pricey with that many kids. Look at CLE.

 

No one is faulting you for having down days. When it turns into day months, then you need a change. Btdt, believe me. Find something that can get done consistently, no matter what. My other question is whether this is your oldest and whether you have a work dynamic problem. Is she wanting you to sit with her or works differently under certain circumstances? Sometimes our expectations aren't realistic for the particular child, and sometimes we have to sort that out. Some kids are ready to sit and do math by themselves at this age, and some are the Sociable Sue or distractible or whatever types who really, really benefit from having a warm body beside them. It's unfortunate. It means you figure that out and put her beside you on the couch while you rest. It means you don't listen when somebody tells you their whiz kid does things all by themselves even though they're a year younger. You have to figure out the dynamic she needs to make it work. Are the others playing while she tries to work? Just things to sort out.

 

Consistent, plodding effort is what gets you there with these kids. She's way too young to say math doesn't matter for her. It does, and the results will add up with consistent effort. Mom-driven stuff (MUS, RS, etc.) might be great educationally, but it's just not practical for some people and situations. It sounds like it isnt' for yours. I would get very realistic and aim for consistency. Give her the placement test for CLE. If it puts her in the 1st grade level, do that. And do it every single day for the next three years. At the end she'll have covered 4-5 years of math, assuming you did math 5 days a week, year round, and she'll be back on grade level. It's consistency that gets you there.

 

Ouch!!! Okay, I hear you though. You're right that I haven't been consistent (lately) but I'm honestly not convinced that math needs to be done every day, 180+ days per year, but that is for another thread. I gave her the CLE placement test 2 years ago and she tested into 2nd grade then, and I know she hasn't fallen behind since then...she just isn't moving forward as quickly as I was thinking/hoping. I will give her the placement test again, I just looked it over and I'm sure she'll test into 300 or 400 so she's not THAT behind. I don't know, I guess I'm of the belief that if there's something they can learn in a couple of months in 3 years, versus doing painstaking work everyday until then on the same issue, I'd rather wait. But I AM concerned when I think about her ever going into school if that were to happen (not planning on it) and she definitely wouldn't be used to the classroom style work, and most likely wouldn't be able to follow along on a lot of it.

[Ali in OR]

Behind is not the issue. The real issue here is finding a way to be consistent. If you're going to continue to have children (and thus continue to have pregnancy fatigue, postpartum fatigue, etc.), then you need to find a sensible way so that math gets done EVERY DAY. I've btdt on the brain is a sieve for math thing, and the biggest issue is to do it EVERY DAY. Now is the time. The past doesn't matter. All that matters is that you find something you can implement every single day, no matter how stinkin' terrible you feel.

 

In your shoes, I would look at CLE or Saxon. TT would be fine too, but that gets a bit pricey with that many kids. Look at CLE.

 

No one is faulting you for having down days. When it turns into day months, then you need a change. Btdt, believe me. Find something that can get done consistently, no matter what. My other question is whether this is your oldest and whether you have a work dynamic problem. Is she wanting you to sit with her or works differently under certain circumstances? Sometimes our expectations aren't realistic for the particular child, and sometimes we have to sort that out. Some kids are ready to sit and do math by themselves at this age, and some are the Sociable Sue or distractible or whatever types who really, really benefit from having a warm body beside them. It's unfortunate. It means you figure that out and put her beside you on the couch while you rest. It means you don't listen when somebody tells you their whiz kid does things all by themselves even though they're a year younger. You have to figure out the dynamic she needs to make it work. Are the others playing while she tries to work? Just things to sort out.

 

Consistent, plodding effort is what gets you there with these kids. She's way too young to say math doesn't matter for her. It does, and the results will add up with consistent effort. Mom-driven stuff (MUS, RS, etc.) might be great educationally, but it's just not practical for some people and situations. It sounds like it isnt' for yours. I would get very realistic and aim for consistency. Give her the placement test for CLE. If it puts her in the 1st grade level, do that. And do it every single day for the next three years. At the end she'll have covered 4-5 years of math, assuming you did math 5 days a week, year round, and she'll be back on grade level. It's consistency that gets you there.

 

:iagree:

If she won't like any math program, go with the one YOU like best. But do it every day. Don't write off her math ability in third grade. It just closes doors for her. Someday she may realize that there are more job opportunities in this world for the math literate and she may want to be in that category. You can make this happen for her. When my kids were younger we used to be able to school 4 days/week. The first subject where we noticed that just wasn't enough was math. Math has been 5 days a week since my oldest was in 2nd or 3rd grade. If that is a given, she will figure out sooner or later that it's just part of life; no sense throwing a fit or tantrum about it.

[Christie_P]

We hope that our daughters will choose to be SAHMs and homeschool their children. But I personally am a former Electrical Engineer and very big on math. Please, please do not write off any child, especially daughters on math. If they homeschool THEIR children, you do not want to hamper any of your grandchildren because momma is math-phobic. I hope my daughters are sound enough in math and science to homeschool future mathematicians and physicists. (And if not, then the grandkids can always come to my house!) JK! But seriously, it may not be their forte, but you do hope they'll homeschool the next generation, don't you?

[Lovedtodeath]

We hope that our daughters will choose to be SAHMs and homeschool their children. But I personally am a former Electrical Engineer and very big on math. Please, please do not write off any child, especially daughters on math. If they homeschool THEIR children, you do not want to hamper any of your grandchildren because momma is math-phobic. I hope my daughters are sound enough in math and science to homeschool future mathematicians and physicists. (And if not, then the grandkids can always come to my house!) JK! But seriously, it may not be their forte, but you do hope they'll homeschool the next generation, don't you?

Ouch. I am not math-phobic at all. I was a math tutor in high school and I did take 4 years of high school math. I guess it is a little too early to make that determination, but eventually I would think that I would let one of my kids (with a math LD) be better at writing (like their dad) and not push the math so much.

[texasmama]

My best advice is to choose a math program which is solid (lots of choices out there, and you have already used three of them) that YOU find easy to teach. Then make yourself a schedule and get 'er done.;) I wouldn't wait for your dd to love math or for you to find the perfect program. It sounds like she might not ever get there...but if you set the expectation and have a program that is workable from your standpoint, it stands a much higher chance of succeeding. There are subjects that I do in the summer because I don't seem to get them done during the year. It doesn't really matter when you get it done. If you took off a couple of months due to feeling sick, then just pick up where you left off and keep going through the summer. That is one option.

[PeterPan]

Ouch!!! Okay, I hear you though. You're right that I haven't been consistent (lately) but I'm honestly not convinced that math needs to be done every day, 180+ days per year, but that is for another thread. I gave her the CLE placement test 2 years ago and she tested into 2nd grade then, and I know she hasn't fallen behind since then...she just isn't moving forward as quickly as I was thinking/hoping. I will give her the placement test again, I just looked it over and I'm sure she'll test into 300 or 400 so she's not THAT behind. I don't know, I guess I'm of the belief that if there's something they can learn in a couple of months in 3 years, versus doing painstaking work everyday until then on the same issue, I'd rather wait. But I AM concerned when I think about her ever going into school if that were to happen (not planning on it) and she definitely wouldn't be used to the classroom style work, and most likely wouldn't be able to follow along on a lot of it.

 

I'll just point out your assumption here: *You* didn't need math every day, year round, so you think *she* shouldn't need math every day, year round. What you're describing in your prior posts sounds like someone who needs consistent math to have success. Not all kids need that, granted. But kids are all different. And you know what? When I was saying these things 1,2,3 years ago about how my dd was smart and shouldn't need so much extra effort, was thinking clearly at a high level but still didn't seem to have it come easily, it turned out she had some underlying problems. (She's 2E, gifted plus dyslexia.) In other words, she *might not* be like you. She really *might* need math every single day.

 

You're not gonna hurt her if you make some choices that allow math to be more consistent. But if you hold onto your idea rather than teaching the child in front of you, you definitely could come to rue it.

 

Some kids need more work than others to get to where they need to be, even the really bright ones. You have to teach the child in front of you.

Edited February 22, 2011 by OhElizabeth

[In2why]

If she hated Singapore I wouldnt choose Math Mammoth. It has less instruction and the pages are busier and hop around.

 

My only concern is her math facts. If she just finished Beta, and is finishing up 3rd grade, has she been exposed to Multiplication? We are using Beta with my 2nd grade son, and I am not happy with it, basically because I discoverd that he needs a spiral program or he loses his math facts. We are in week 19 and barely even touched on subtraction. I had to start printing out drill sheets just so he could memorize them again, because I realized that with Beta he went backwards and was counting on his fingers again. (something he hadn't done since K) I can't imagine how hard it would be if we hadn't covered math since Christmas.

 

I echo others that you need to find something consistent. The good news is that you don't have to push her ahead just so she can move up a grade, which is what the schools often do, but recognizing that you need to do something different is a good thing. Meet her where she is today, and go forward. Beating yourself up isnt going to solve the problem, but realizing that math is one of the subjects that kids lose the most over the summer or long breaks is important and helps explain why consistency is important.

[Testimony]

I understand panicking a bit about math, but take a deep breath. Part of the panic is the typical homeschooling nightmare we all have. I can definitely sympathize with you because I have been in that panic too.

 

I wanted to say that I personally feel that maybe switching might not be the best idea at this point. I think that you stick to what you have and just finish it. If you have to take a break and stop, then pick up where you left off. Do not think that you are behind. You are right where you belong. Your daughter seems to be grasping in this program. You just have not been doing it with her. Keep going. Don't give up on the program. Just keep going. You just need to remain consistent in a program. You seem to have a system set down. Follow it.

 

Remember, keep going!

 

Blessings in your homeschooling journey!

 

Sincerely,

Karen

http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/testimony

[Lovedtodeath]

I agree with Testimony and Elizabeth. I don't think we really needed to switch programs. My daughter hates math no matter what. We have started doing at least one subject on the weekend and you wouldn't believe how much stress that lifted. Remember 10 minutes is better than nothing. 20-30 minutes is all you need. Setting the timer will likely help both of you.

[Holly]

My DD is in the exact same situation...except we didn't make it through SM 2a! We switched to MM level 2 and are working our way back up to subtraction with regrouping (where she got really stuck).

 

I've also added in timed drills to work on math facts and I think that's where we went wrong the first time through. How are your DD's math facts? If they aren't strong, that could be a big factor. The drills only take 5 minutes and you can find them free online. Very easy to do each day...even with pregnancy or a newborn! :D If you can't fit in math everyday, you should at least work through a drill (or flashcards).

 

I plan on going back to SM 2a once we go through regrouping in MM. I thought about switching to MUS (mainly so I don't have to teach), but I really like SM.

[I.Dup.]

Thank you all!! I definitely won't be scrapping math forever or anything ;) and we will keep trucking along. I guess setting a plan would help...does she really need to be one of the ones taking calculus and trig and all of that in high school? Kwim? Because that will affect just how much push we put behind everything.

 

Yes, she is familiar with multiplication and we have been working on memorizing the facts, she's got all the 2's and 3's memorized and we will keep working on the others. She is one of the types that needs me sitting right there doing everything with her so that's slowed the mult. fact learning down some, but we're getting there.

 

There has been a LOT of drill on multiple-digit addition and subtraction in MUS Beta and that's what she needed, so she's finally got that down pat (she picked up right where she left off around Christmastime, thankfully!)

[I.Dup.]

I'll just point out your assumption here: *You* didn't need math every day, year round, so you think *she* shouldn't need math every day, year round. What you're describing in your prior posts sounds like someone who needs consistent math to have success. Not all kids need that, granted. But kids are all different. And you know what? When I was saying these things 1,2,3 years ago about how my dd was smart and shouldn't need so much extra effort, was thinking clearly at a high level but still didn't seem to have it come easily, it turned out she had some underlying problems. (She's 2E, gifted plus dyslexia.) In other words, she *might not* be like you. She really *might* need math every single day.

 

You're not gonna hurt her if you make some choices that allow math to be more consistent. But if you hold onto your idea rather than teaching the child in front of you, you definitely could come to rue it.

 

Some kids need more work than others to get to where they need to be, even the really bright ones. You have to teach the child in front of you.

 

So are you saying that a 12 or 13 year old won't be able to comprehend elementary math much more quickly and efficiently than a 7 or 8 year old would? I don't know what "idea" I'm holding onto that you're referring to.

[Scuff]

Kristi, isn't this the child you have issues with? Are you sure she has trouble with math and not that she just doesn't want to do it, so wears you down?

 

My older 2 are a little behind in math. DD because she genuinely struggles. DS because I switched him around so much earlier I backed him up a little to make sure we're not mising something important. I wouldn't worry about her being behind. And what I mean by that is that it's not time to panic, the world is not ending. But, like other's have said, you do need to make sure she's getting math done.

 

It sounds like MUS may be working for you. Stick with it, or don't. The point I think people are trying to say it just do it. She may not need math year round, but a great way to catch her up to where she should be is to go year round. If you're just schooling math through the summer it shouldn't be too hard. We're going to do this just to get those two up to speed. We'll be taking weeks off for vacation and visiting family and maybe quick trips to the beach or zoo, but when we're home, they'll do math.

[Lovedtodeath]

So are you saying that a 12 or 13 year old won't be able to comprehend elementary math much more quickly and efficiently than a 7 or 8 year old would? I don't know what "idea" I'm holding onto that you're referring to.

Maybe posting the parts that address this will help you understand what she is referring to...

 

 

 

Ouch!!! Okay, I hear you though. You're right that I haven't been consistent (lately) but I'm honestly not convinced that math needs to be done every day, 180+ days per year, but that is for another thread.

 

you think *she* shouldn't need math every day, year round. In other words, she *might not* be like you. She really *might* need math every single day.

 

You're not gonna hurt her if you make some choices that allow math to be more consistent. But if you hold onto your idea rather than teaching the child in front of you, you definitely could come to rue it.

 

[PeterPan]

Don't confuse conceptual understanding with proficiency. Age and readiness affects conceptual understanding, but that understanding only results in proficiency for certain number of kids. You'll hear about them occasionally, the moms who post here wondering why everyone makes math fact memorization sound so hard and why we don't all just do some visualization or mnemonic trick and have it stick. For those kids, once they understand it they have it. However, for most kids, proficiency comes with use and use takes time. And the amount of use and amount of time it takes to develop that proficiency varies with the kid. Life isn't fair; some kids have to work harder than others. And we don't even need to get into the whole late/early debate. You're going to find kids for whom that worked and kids for whom it didn't. What I'm saying is that you have to look at the child in front of you, not the theory from Robinson or what you concluded from your growing up or anything else. You have to look at the child in front of you and ask how much instruction she needs to learn the concepts and how much practice she needs to become proficient. Then you have to get honest about those answers and make it happen.

 

Consistency, consistent small amounts of work, are what it takes to help the dc who doesn't get to that place of proficiency as easily as the next child. You have no clue where a dc can end up, just looking at them now. My dh wasn't exactly a stellar math student, but he made it through engineering school and is now extremely successful. I can also say, as a parent of a slightly older child (almost 12), that you might find yourself later wanting some cushion to repeat a level, change pace with teen fog, etc. And this age, while time intensive, is still generally compliant. If you work consistently now, when you NEED that margin later you'll have it. And if you need to create margin space in your lives now, work consistently the rest of the time, kwim? If you know you need 2 months off around the birth of the baby, then be very consistent before that to create some padding. And personally, post-partum I found it helpful to have no-brainer things she could do without me.

 

I have a friend whose ds is only now, at the end of 7th, comfortable with her not being there the whole time. Not sure it's a process you can rush or push. Oh, and I don't consider consistency pushing. If she feels like she's being PUSHED, then the conceptual level or content of the material may not be appropriate. She should not feel pushed. At that age we're talking 25 total minutes of work a day. 5 minutes on a Flashmaster, 20 minutes with the math workbook. Set the timer, and when it goes off you're done. That's it. No pushing, no struggles. I finally gave my dd a multiplication table around 4th, wish I had done it earlier. You could definitely do this with an add/subtr table. It lets them see the visual patterns and memorize them in their own way. She definitely should not feel pushed or frustrated. We also did our math on a small whiteboard for years to take away the writing aspect. No pushing or frustration. Pushing and frustration block the hormones of learning.

Edited February 22, 2011 by OhElizabeth

[I.Dup.]

Thank you, that helps a lot. We just did our multiplication on a small white board this morning and she loved it and said how much fun it was. :001_smile: I'm not sure how I can translate everything to the whiteboard, but I will try!

 

Thanks for the tips! I will definitely be more consistent from here on out, and yes we do school year round so that helps with these random breaks here and there. :001_smile:

[I.Dup.]

Oh I do have one more question about the pushed issue....I think she feels pushed because math is "hard" for her to figure out, as in it takes some time. She is bright in other areas so I guess she's not used to that, and she doesn't like it, lol. So when you say the child should not feel pushed, does that mean just stay on the parts that are especially easy for them? Because anytime we get into anything new or a little difficult, she gets all frustrated and complainy about it.

[Lovedtodeath]

Oh I do have one more question about the pushed issue....I think she feels pushed because math is "hard" for her to figure out, as in it takes some time. She is bright in other areas so I guess she's not used to that, and she doesn't like it, lol. So when you say the child should not feel pushed, does that mean just stay on the parts that are especially easy for them? Because anytime we get into anything new or a little difficult, she gets all frustrated and complainy about it.

I disagree, some kids have to be pushed or they will learn nothing!

 

DD has a very hard time with knowing when to borrow with subtraction, and using mental math tricks like in Math Mammoth. It helps if we work on that for only a short time (like 5-10 minutes) then do some other math, continuing to move ahead in the curriculum (fractions, multiplication, etc. is more fun, "easier" and builds confidence).

[In2why]

Oh I do have one more question about the pushed issue....I think she feels pushed because math is "hard" for her to figure out, as in it takes some time. She is bright in other areas so I guess she's not used to that, and she doesn't like it, lol. So when you say the child should not feel pushed, does that mean just stay on the parts that are especially easy for them? Because anytime we get into anything new or a little difficult, she gets all frustrated and complainy about it.

 

 

I have one of those kids that get frustrated with new things, and would stay in his comfort zone forever if he could. That is another reason I have discovered that a spiral math program is best for us. At least that way he can have a feeling of accomplishment, with only small bits of new material introduced at a time.

[boscopup]

I guess setting a plan would help...does she really need to be one of the ones taking calculus and trig and all of that in high school?

 

I wouldn't assume that she won't do a field that requires higher math (some fields require classes in higher math even if the math is never actually USED outside of school... As a EE who did software development, I hardly ever had to do math, but I still had to take a certain amount of classes in it). She may have some idea of what she wants to be now, but it could change later. I wanted to be a vet when I was her age. Then in high school I wanted to be a band director. It wasn't until orientation for college that I decided on EE. So don't close doors for her.

 

My son is great at math, but writing is not his forte. Guess what? I'm still going to require that he learn to write well. I think it's important, even if he's likely to go into a math/science field that probably wouldn't require writing essays and such. I expect a certain level of writing in high school. He needs to be able to write research papers and such. Will he have to work hard to achieve that? Yes! It won't be as easy for him as math is, but I still expect it, because my job is to give him the best education that I can. Plus, what if he decides to be an engineering professor or some other job that requires writing papers? I don't want to close that door just because writing didn't come easy to him. And he is a perfectionist and gets very upset when he can't do something. We're working through it. I push just enough that he can be successful if he works hard. Now he's only first grade, so that pushing is still very gentle. ;) But I've seen huge progress from just that gentle pushing and being consistent in daily work on his weak areas.

 

I'm not saying at all that your DD needs to finish calculus her junior year of high school, but it would be nice if she could at least do calculus her freshman year of college if she decides to do a field that requires it. And if she could get that course out of the way at home, in a more friendly environment, even better! I know I was happy to not have to take several college courses due to getting AP credit. My weak area was English, and I got AP credit for that (just barely :lol:). I'm soooooo glad I didn't have to take English in college! It made life easier for me.

 

So anyway, do be consistent, find a way to get her learning math, just in case she needs it in the future, either in a career or in homeschooling her own children. :) The white board idea is great! Some kids are more interested when doing things on a white board. Keep that up!

[I.Dup.]

My son is great at math, but writing is not his forte. Guess what? I'm still going to require that he learn to write well. I think it's important, even if he's likely to go into a math/science field that probably wouldn't require writing essays and such. I expect a certain level of writing in high school. He needs to be able to write research papers and such. Will he have to work hard to achieve that? Yes! It won't be as easy for him as math is, but I still expect it, because my job is to give him the best education that I can. Plus, what if he decides to be an engineering professor or some other job that requires writing papers? I don't want to close that door just because writing didn't come easy to him. And he is a perfectionist and gets very upset when he can't do something. We're working through it. I push just enough that he can be successful if he works hard. Now he's only first grade, so that pushing is still very gentle. ;) But I've seen huge progress from just that gentle pushing and being consistent in daily work on his weak areas.

 

Yes, this is what I've always believed too. My heart is to give them the best education possible and that is what I will strive for. Sometimes I just get discouraged and tired of fighting in certain areas, but I will keep on keepin' on. It's been interesting to hear the different viewpoints, thanks everyone. :001_smile:

[PeterPan]

Oh I do have one more question about the pushed issue....I think she feels pushed because math is "hard" for her to figure out, as in it takes some time. She is bright in other areas so I guess she's not used to that, and she doesn't like it, lol. So when you say the child should not feel pushed, does that mean just stay on the parts that are especially easy for them? Because anytime we get into anything new or a little difficult, she gets all frustrated and complainy about it.

 

I think the trouble with the bright ones is they perceive more acutely where things aren't going well for them. I wouldn't say it's so much that she's trying to be lazy, as that she, in her own, immature way, is trying to tell you something is wrong. For instance, when my dd was that age, she kept saying she couldn't spell. Well I've got to tell you that was flabbergasting, because the child never spelled below grade level a day in her life. But she was quite aware that she couldn't spell what she WANTED to spell and that it wasn't coming as naturally as it ought to.

 

Now with math, I don't think you're looking for a PUSH so much when it's hard for them as a gentle NUDGE. Think nudge. You'll notice I recommended to you at the beginning of this thread CLE. CLE can be almost independent as it's written to the student, has built-in and engaging fact review, and is SPIRAL. I know it doesn't have the conceptual instruction your soul craves, but it would leave you room and time to go back and do something like MUS with her on the days when you have time. The two methods can complement each other. You're recognizing the difference between the INSTRUCTION and building PROFICIENCY. CLE, or something you use in that fashion, is going to help build proficiency. I'm even using Math Mammoth that way with my dd. MM does a single topic at a time, so I have her do a single page from lessons in 6 units. So she does a page of fractions, a page of geometry, a page of division, whatever. There just is no substitute for the consistent plodding that some kids need to build proficiency. And unfortunately, it takes a LOT more plodding for some kids than others, a lot. Think the tortoise and the hare. Some kids are hares, and some kids are tortoises. They'll get there, if you just keep plodding.

 

What you might find easiest is to give her the placement test for the spiral program of your choice (or Math Mammoth used spirally, as I described), and do that alongside your MUS instruction. She wouldn't do 6 pages a day in MM btw, lol. I have my dd doing that, because I'm nudging her up to the level she needs for algebra. She's almost 12, and that's a good nudge, bordering on a push for her. You have to use your wisdom to see what amount is a good nudge and where it's too much. If you start with CLE, those lessons are going to seem really, really long at first. Your options are either break them up (not actually what I'd recommend) or pause the MUS for a few weeks while she gets used to the length in the CLE. She will, but it's going to plod. The main thing, when you start that spiral or proficiency program is to *back it up* so that it's EASY. That way she's only dealing with quantity, not difficulty, kwim? And let her use her manipulatives or math tables along with it. When she no longer needs them, she'll stop using them.

 

You'll get there. Some kids are not linear. We think we have taught it, so it should be there. We've completed a program, so we should be able to move forward. Don't ask how many 3rd gr complete programs I've done with my dd. Don't ask how many times we've done division. Don't ask how many years in a row we've done multiplying fractions, or how many times she'll give a blank look even though I KNOW we've done it 3-4 years in a row. Some kids are just tortoises. You have to help them engage in the race with slow, plodding work.

 

Oh, and lest you think my dd is dumb, she's not lol. She's amazing at history, sculpting, organizing parties, decorating, etc. She just isn't a math person. She's terrific conceptually, but none of the facts stick. It's just how it is, and we work with it. I repeat and repeat things, but I let her do more challenging things like Math Olympiad problems. Some kids are just wired differently, and you have to go with the flow. Also, there's an actual label they'll put on some kids, dyscalculia. I'm not sure what all it involves. I'm just saying it's not at all stunning to say a kid can be gifted, great conceptually, and still give you a blank look over 7+5 during the pre-algebra lesson. You have to build up enough proficiency with their computation stuff, in spite of themselves, so that they can move forward without getting bogged down. That's what happened to my dd. We hit pre-algebra a year ago, and she just bogged down in the computation because of the speed issue. So we just keep working on it. Tortoise, not the hare.

[wy_kid_wrangler04]

Ok I only read through page 2 (I'm on a time frame for a few minutes here until my dd finishes her math test actually :D)

 

Do you realize that Singapore is about a year or so ahead? That could have been why she did not like it. If its ahead and it moved to fast for her you could have had her at a level to advanced. If you like Singapore, I am sure she could too, but I would start her back in either 2A or 2B then do math everyday (sorry, I am a stickler about that.) You can print off a Singapore placement test here to see where she is so you can place her at the correct level if thats the way you want to go. I challenge you to do math everyday for a month and tell us what kind of improvment you see. That should sell you that we are not just nuts :001_smile:

 

If you do not want to retry Singapore then start her back a bit in whatever program you resume so she gets the instant "hey, I can do this :D" Give her a week or two of confidence building and get her brain thinking mathmatically again before you start introducing new concepts with her again. Check out this site for supplemental work.

 

The key truly is consistency. I have my dd who is also in 3rd grade play on www.multiplication.com almost daily as part of her math (including work from her math books, not one or the other) She is getting very strong in math. I highly recommend you do math from her books then also some sort of free online games (to make it fun :001_smile:)

[Lovedtodeath]

I think the trouble with the bright ones is they perceive more acutely where things aren't going well for them. I wouldn't say it's so much that she's trying to be lazy, as that she, in her own, immature way, is trying to tell you something is wrong. For instance, when my dd was that age, she kept saying she couldn't spell. Well I've got to tell you that was flabbergasting, because the child never spelled below grade level a day in her life. But she was quite aware that she couldn't spell what she WANTED to spell and that it wasn't coming as naturally as it ought to.

 

Now with math, I don't think you're looking for a PUSH so much when it's hard for them as a gentle NUDGE. Think nudge. You'll notice I recommended to you at the beginning of this thread CLE. CLE can be almost independent as it's written to the student, has built-in and engaging fact review, and is SPIRAL. I know it doesn't have the conceptual instruction your soul craves, but it would leave you room and time to go back and do something like MUS with her on the days when you have time. The two methods can complement each other. You're recognizing the difference between the INSTRUCTION and building PROFICIENCY. CLE, or something you use in that fashion, is going to help build proficiency. I'm even using Math Mammoth that way with my dd. MM does a single topic at a time, so I have her do a single page from lessons in 6 units. So she does a page of fractions, a page of geometry, a page of division, whatever. There just is no substitute for the consistent plodding that some kids need to build proficiency. And unfortunately, it takes a LOT more plodding for some kids than others, a lot. Think the tortoise and the hare. Some kids are hares, and some kids are tortoises. They'll get there, if you just keep plodding.

 

What you might find easiest is to give her the placement test for the spiral program of your choice (or Math Mammoth used spirally, as I described), and do that alongside your MUS instruction. She wouldn't do 6 pages a day in MM btw, lol. I have my dd doing that, because I'm nudging her up to the level she needs for algebra. She's almost 12, and that's a good nudge, bordering on a push for her. You have to use your wisdom to see what amount is a good nudge and where it's too much. If you start with CLE, those lessons are going to seem really, really long at first. Your options are either break them up (not actually what I'd recommend) or pause the MUS for a few weeks while she gets used to the length in the CLE. She will, but it's going to plod. The main thing, when you start that spiral or proficiency program is to *back it up* so that it's EASY. That way she's only dealing with quantity, not difficulty, kwim? And let her use her manipulatives or math tables along with it. When she no longer needs them, she'll stop using them.

 

You'll get there. Some kids are not linear. We think we have taught it, so it should be there. We've completed a program, so we should be able to move forward. Don't ask how many 3rd gr complete programs I've done with my dd. Don't ask how many times we've done division. Don't ask how many years in a row we've done multiplying fractions, or how many times she'll give a blank look even though I KNOW we've done it 3-4 years in a row. Some kids are just tortoises. You have to help them engage in the race with slow, plodding work.

 

Oh, and lest you think my dd is dumb, she's not lol. She's amazing at history, sculpting, organizing parties, decorating, etc. She just isn't a math person. She's terrific conceptually, but none of the facts stick. It's just how it is, and we work with it. I repeat and repeat things, but I let her do more challenging things like Math Olympiad problems. Some kids are just wired differently, and you have to go with the flow. Also, there's an actual label they'll put on some kids, dyscalculia. I'm not sure what all it involves. I'm just saying it's not at all stunning to say a kid can be gifted, great conceptually, and still give you a blank look over 7+5 during the pre-algebra lesson. You have to build up enough proficiency with their computation stuff, in spite of themselves, so that they can move forward without getting bogged down. That's what happened to my dd. We hit pre-algebra a year ago, and she just bogged down in the computation because of the speed issue. So we just keep working on it. Tortoise, not the hare.

Thank you.