Have you seen this on Obama?

[DollyM]

I'm interested to know if anyone knew President Bush's stance on homeschooling before he was elected. (Or, in fact, now. ??) What was his policy? And did it, pro or con or no comment, have any impact on homeschooling in the US in the past 8 years?

 

When Bush was running for President he spoke at a homeschool function I attended in DAR's Consititution Hall in Washington DC - I even shook his hand - and at that function (HSLDA sponsored, I think) he affirmed homeschooling loud and clear.

 

Yep.:001_smile:

[battlemaiden]

Here's another one, giving a chronological run down of the whole thing:

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/02/29/john-hagees-mccain-endor_n_89189.html

 

Endorsements can come from the craziest of the crazies. They are not the same as relationships. It would probably be an interesting exercise to see a list of endorsements for all candidates. I think we would be surprised at how many are undesirable.

 

And for what it's worth, I can't bring myself to click on any link that leads me to the Huffington Post- but I will look further into the Hagee thing.

 

Jo

[kokotg]

sure, but he actively sought the endorsement and now refuses to reject it, even as Catholic groups call on him to do so. If he considers Hagee an undesirable crazy, he has a funny way of showing it. He's also made appearances with Hagee. Sounds like a "relationship" to me.

[Oak Knoll Mom]

Shhhhh! Don't tell Ian Paisley!

 

That name is quite a flashback from my Bob Jones days! :D

[LizzyBee]

McCain most certainly does pander to the religious right.

 

February 29, 2008, 4:58 pm

McCain Hedges on Hagee Endorsement

Susan Davis reports on the presidential race.

 

On Thursday John McCain welcomed the endorsement of John Hagee, but a day later the Arizona senator sought to maintain some distance from the evangelical leader after the Catholic League and the Democratic National Committee called on McCain to denounce his support, citing controversial remarks Hagee has made in the past on a variety of subjects.

 

“Yesterday, Pastor John Hagee endorsed my candidacy for president in San Antonio, Texas. However, in no way did I intend for his endorsement to suggest that I in turn agree with all of Pastor Hagee’s views, which I obviously do not,†McCain said today in a statement, “I am hopeful that Catholics, Protestants and all people of faith who share my vision for the future of America will respond to our message of defending innocent life, traditional marriage, and compassion for the most vulnerable in our society.â€

 

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/02/29/mccain-hedges-on-hagee-endorsement/

 

McCain has repeatedly said that he does not agree with Hagee's views. If he appears to be pandering to the "religious right," it is because he is trying to get their votes; the religious right does not support him as they would have supported several of the other Republican candidates. A very large segment of the religious right is extremely disappointed that McCain is the Republican candidate. Many conservatives are planning to write in their vote for president or just not vote for anyone in the general election.

[battlemaiden]

My initial google search using the words "McCain Hagee":

 

Salon.com, Huffington Post, Thinkprogress.org, democrats.org, talkleft.com, and some other sites that link the others. On the second google page, third from the top I *did* see MichaelMoore.com reported that McCAin called Hagee's comments "nonsense".

 

I'm going to have dig a little deeper on this one. Two google pages with not a single credible news link.

 

Jo

[beansprouts]

McCain has repeatedly said that he does not agree with Hagee's views. If he appears to be pandering to the "religious right," it is because he is trying to get their votes; the religious right does not support him as they would have supported several of the other Republican candidates. A very large segment of the religious right is extremely disappointed that McCain is the Republican candidate. Many conservatives are planning to write in their vote for president or just not vote for anyone in the general election.

 

#1: These views do not "pander" to me at all. They are based on complete ignorance as to who Christ is and what he stands for. I really wish these people would stop dragging His name through the mud.

 

#2: Reality is there are two candidates. A third party vote is a wasted vote, and potentially a vote for the worse of two evils. AFAICS there is no option for me but to choose between two people I do not like...

[beansprouts]

Oh and I forgot:

 

#3: If I do (lose my mind) and vote Democrat this time around PLEASE don't tell my Rush-fan-dh, he just might divorce me!! :lol:

[LizzyBee]

#1: These views do not "pander" to me at all. They are based on complete ignorance as to who Christ is and what he stands for. I really wish these people would stop dragging His name through the mud.

 

#2: Reality is there are two candidates. A third party vote is a wasted vote, and potentially a vote for the worse of two evils. AFAICS there is no option for me but to choose between two people I do not like...

 

#1. Which views? McCain has said that he doesn't agree with Hagee's views.

 

#2. I totally agree with you, and I personally do plan to vote for McCain. He wasn't my first choice for Republican candidate, but I prefer him over Obama or Clinton.

[kokotg]

The Huffington link I put in has videos of McCain speaking about Hagee--you can certainly skip the commentary and watch the clips. You can listen to the Fresh Air interview with Hagee. You can look on youtube for the interview with George Stephanopoulos in which he was asked about it. Here, ABC news blog:

 

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/04/mccain-admits-h.html

 

Yes, he's said he doesn't agree with the comments, but that he is glad to have the endorsement. Senator Obama has said repeatedly that he doesn't agree with Wright's comments, either, but clearly many of the people on this thread are not reassured. My opinion is that the situations are analogous but are being treated very differently by the media. Of course, analogous is in the eye of the beholder ;), but I do think it's telling that so many people here had never even heard of the Hagee controversy. I was specifically responding to someone's assertion that McCain doesn't pander to the religious right. I have a hard time seeing how soliciting Hagee's endorsement can be anything else. Of course he's doing it because he wants their votes; isn't that why you pander?

[beansprouts]

#1. Which views? McCain has said that he doesn't agree with Hagee's views.

 

 

 

Well, I haven't researched McCain enough to have an opinion about his views. I meant these views in general, no matter who endorses them, are highly offensive to me.

[LizzyBee]

Well, I haven't researched McCain enough to have an opinion about his views. I meant these views in general, no matter who endorses them, are highly offensive to me.

 

Ah, gotcha, and I agree with you. Again. :001_smile:

[LizzyBee]

My opinion is that the situations are analogous but are being treated very differently by the media. Of course, analogous is in the eye of the beholder ;), but I do think it's telling that so many people here had never even heard of the Hagee controversy.

 

I see them as very different, because Obama sat under Wright's preaching for 20 years. OTOH, I do think too much has been made of it and I'd rather hear more about Obama's views than his preacher's views.

[Colleen]

"My name is Joe Schmoe and I invented the Internet!" (spoken in Important Voice).

 

Yep, that right there tuned me into the fact that I was going to witness something of great value.

 

Not.:D

 

This is how far I made it: "FACT: Obama's father was a Muslim from Kenya and his mother is a white American".

 

Ooooh!!!! Scary!!!! I'm worried!!!!

 

I'm not gung-ho about Obama. I like some things, don't care for others. But I have a sneaking suspicion watching this would make me none the wiser, so I'll pass.

[Oak Knoll Mom]

Senator Obama has said repeatedly that he doesn't agree with Wright's comments, either, but clearly many of the people on this thread are not reassured. My opinion is that the situations are analogous but are being treated very differently by the media. Of course, analogous is in the eye of the beholder ;), but I do think it's telling that so many people here had never even heard of the Hagee controversy.

 

The biggest difference I see is that McCain doesn't refer to Hagee as his spiritual mentor unlike Obama referencing Wright as his.

[kokotg]

incidentally, I was very reluctant to post on or even read any political threads here, so scarred am I by past experiences attempting to discuss politics with people who disagree with me (mostly my extended family). But after conquering my fears and wading in here, I still feel okay about it! I don't have that sick to my stomach feeling I get after arguing with my Uncle Dan! Of course, I am neglecting my children to check this thread over and over again (and I have a bit of a tendency to never.shut.up once I get going; I am a bit of a politics dork. I have genuinely difficult time understanding why no one ever wants to talk about the 50 State Strategy with me for hours on end), so I'll step back now.

[5kidsforME]

McCain most certainly does pander to the religious right. He actively sought and refuses to reject the endorsement of John Hagee, who calls the Catholic church "the Great whore," insists that war with Iran is mandated by the Bible, and says Hurricane Katrina was God's punishment for New Orleans holding a gay pride parade (a particularly mysterious pronouncement, since pretty much every major city in the country holds gay pride parades....). The difference is that the media doesn't show these clips on a 24 hour loop because they're too busy eating the barbecue McCain cooks for them.

 

Can you provide a source for what you are saying he said about New Orleans and hurricane Katrina? I have never heard this.

[huntergirlnc21]

Can you provide a source for what you are saying he said about New Orleans and hurricane Katrina? I have never heard this.

 

http://mediamatters.org/items/200802280018

 

The original interview:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6097362

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hagee#cite_note-40

[Jennifer in NH]

The biggest difference I see is that McCain doesn't refer to Hagee as his spiritual mentor unlike Obama referencing Wright as his.

Hagee also did not marry Mccain and his wife or Baptize their children etc...

[PrairieAir]

incidentally, I was very reluctant to post on or even read any political threads here, so scarred am I by past experiences attempting to discuss politics with people who disagree with me (mostly my extended family). But after conquering my fears and wading in here, I still feel okay about it! I don't have that sick to my stomach feeling I get after arguing with my Uncle Dan! Of course, I am neglecting my children to check this thread over and over again (and I have a bit of a tendency to never.shut.up once I get going; I am a bit of a politics dork. I have genuinely difficult time understanding why no one ever wants to talk about the 50 State Strategy with me for hours on end), so I'll step back now.

 

Okay, so what is this 50 State Strategy? I'm clearly looking for a way of escaping some of my more immediate realities today, so I'm game. Maybe you should start a thread about it. Or just keep posting things in this thread. At the moment I'm finding political talk about candidates I don't care for (that would be all of them) preferable to thinking about my son graduating and joining the Marines and how very old and scared and sad, etc. that makes me feel.

[Mrs Mungo]

But my point is, while the first article--about the Muslim stuff--breaks the false email down point by point, it doesn't *seem* (to me) to actually refute those points. For ex: the fake email says that O's bio father divorced his mom when O was 2 & went back to Kenya. Snopes says he went to Connecticut, then Kenya. Well...ok. So?

 

I didn't even really read the bits on Obama's father that closely considering that after the divorce (when Obama was 2) he only saw his father one more time in his life (I believe, from my reading) when he was 11 and his father died when he was 21. The email implies (as does the video) that his father was a radical Muslim with control over his son's life and the Snopes article does refute both of those points.

 

The bit about his school in Indonesia is also refuted through use of the CNN and AP articles, you can read the whole CNN article here:

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/01/22/obama.madrassa

He attended a "Muslim school" for two years in terms that the school was mostly Muslim kids. He also attended a Catholic school in Indonesia for 2 years but I don't see anyone claiming he's Catholic.

 

The snopes article is refuting an email that seems to be what the video is based upon, not this video. So, while it doesn't refute the video point by point I think it does a good job of refuting the spirit of the video.

 

Ok, so the 2nd one. Instead of addressing O's failure to put his hand over his heart in the pic, it goes into a lot of detail about how that tradition is being gradually dropped. Well...ok...maybe in some parts of the country. Not where I live, but...you'd think a pres candidate would be *pretty* concientious about that kind of thing, kwim?

 

So it goes on to say that sometimes he does & sometimes he doesn't. Again...why? Without a *reason*...I don't know...he just didn't feel like it? Forgot? That doesn't seem to bode well for the leader of a place like this, kwim? Otoh, if there is a reason, that's suspect, too. <snip>

 

Actually, US flag etiquitte is pretty confusing to most people. My military officer wives' handbook says:

 

"When the National Anthem is played outdoors and the flag is displayed, place your hand over your heart and face the flag. Indoors, it is not necessary to place your hand over your heart.

 

When the American flag passes in front of you at a parade or review, you may place your hand over your heart."

 

I can tell you from experience most military wives do not place their hand over their heart unless the flag is displayed. It's the flag you salute. In this case the only flag we can see from the perspective of the camera is the one *behind* the candidates. Unless there was another flag on display they are ALL wrong. Most soldiers stand at attention instead of putting their hand over their heart even when they are in civilian clothes but they're wrong too. It doesn't make them unpatriotic.

[Cheryl in NM]

I tried to type that gently, but sometimes it is difficult to convey my heart in print.

You were fine. I was already realizing it as I was re-reading the thread. Don't worry about it. No hard feelings. We need each other to be sounding boards. Thanks.

[Cheryl in NM]

Cheryl-I really don't want to make anyone feel stupid, that's the last thing I'd want. I enjoy people who make me think about my opinions and why I hold them.

 

I didn't mean that anyone here made me feel stupid. It's just that this thread has served as a mirror for me. I thank everyone who is participating. I've learned something about myself and my political views.:001_smile:

[beansprouts]

You were fine. I was already realizing it as I was re-reading the thread. Don't worry about it. No hard feelings. We need each other to be sounding boards. Thanks.

 

I would have repped you for your maturity in this matter, but apparently I have done so too recently ;)

[Mrs Mungo]

What I'd like to hear more opinions on is his ref to his grandmother as a "typical white person" & his ref to Wright as his "spiritual mentor."

 

I hope you don't think he was insulting his own grandmother by saying she's a typical white person. My grandmother used to complain to me if in the winter I started looking pasty by telling me I was "looking like a white girl." She never meant being white was bad, she meant I'm not white and it looks unhealthy on me.

 

I'm going to address the issue with the Reverend generally:

The thing is, over the course of 20 years I've been to many different churches. My great-uncle married us and he's a small-town Pentecostal preacher and I've never been in his church. I might be surprised to find out what he preaches. I've walked out of a sermon once but I've disagreed with my pastors many times. Again, I would hate to be accountable for everything they might hve said over the whole course of their careers. Obama did say the Reverend was his *spiritual* mentor, not his political mentor.

 

I don't think it's suprising that an Africa-American family would be members of a church steeped in the African-American community.

 

I find it a little ironic that Obama has been chastised in this thread both for throwing his mentor under the train as soon as all this came out and for not repudiating him soon enough.

 

Jo said:

As for domestic issues- I could never inflict universal health care on our country. My children may need a good doctor one day.

 

I agree with you there, I'm against government-controlled health care.

 

Okay, so what is this 50 State Strategy? I'm clearly looking for a way of escaping some of my more immediate realities today, so I'm game. Maybe you should start a thread about it. Or just keep posting things in this thread. At the moment I'm finding political talk about candidates I don't care for (that would be all of them) preferable to thinking about my son graduating and joining the Marines and how very old and scared and sad, etc. that makes me feel.

 

The 50 state strategy is the strategy being employed by the DNC to fight in every state, even red states.

[Cheryl in NM]

I would have repped you for your maturity in this matter, but apparently I have done so too recently ;)

Aw, thanks! I'll take the spirit of the rep instead!:D

[kokotg]

 

The 50 state strategy is the strategy being employed by the DNC to fight in every state, even red states.

 

yeah, the idea is lots of grassroots organizing and supporting strong Democratic candidates at the local level in areas that are considered hostile to Democrats. So what you see with Obama is that he puts a lot of mountain west states into play that Clinton can't, whereas her general election strategy is pretty much to run the same campaign Kerry did and hope Florida falls into place (the flip side being that she can win Florida and Obama probably can't). As a Democrat in a very red part of a very red state, I'm excited about having a presidential candidate who hasn't already decided I'm not worth his time. The conventional wisdom is that most down ticket Democratic candidates, particularly in red states, very much want Obama on the ticket--both because he's shown himself to be more committed to campaigning for them and because he tends to perform better in those areas. coattails. There is much talk about how, yes, Bill Clinton won the White House, but his administration also saw Congress fall under Republican control for the first time in forever, and whether Obama can help secure a stronger Democratic majority. yeah, see, it's kind of....boring unless you're just super interested in Democratic political strategy. So how it works is I completely lose people by the time I get to this part, and I don't even get to talk about Johnson and the Civil Rights Act and the Republicans' Southern Strategy and triangulation and, and....

[PrairieAir]

yeah, the idea is lots of grassroots organizing and supporting strong Democratic candidates at the local level in areas that are considered hostile to Democrats. So what you see with Obama is that he puts a lot of mountain west states into play that Clinton can't, whereas her general election strategy is pretty much to run the same campaign Kerry did and hope Florida falls into place (the flip side being that she can win Florida and Obama probably can't). As a Democrat in a very red part of a very red state, I'm excited about having a presidential candidate who hasn't already decided I'm not worth his time. The conventional wisdom is that most down ticket Democratic candidates, particularly in red states, very much want Obama on the ticket--both because he's shown himself to be more committed to campaigning for them and because he tends to perform better in those areas. coattails. There is much talk about how, yes, Bill Clinton won the White House, but his administration also saw Congress fall under Republican control for the first time in forever, and whether Obama can help secure a stronger Democratic majority. yeah, see, it's kind of....boring unless you're just super interested in Democratic political strategy. So how it works is I completely lose people by the time I get to this part, and I don't even get to talk about Johnson and the Civil Rights Act and the Republicans' Southern Strategy and triangulation and, and....

 

I think it's rather interesting, actually. Thank you for explaining it further. As someone who is not really committed to either party, I appreciate a Democratic candidate who is willing to spend a little time in my red state:D

[Peek a Boo]

#2: Reality is there are two candidates. A third party vote is a wasted vote, and potentially a vote for the worse of two evils. AFAICS there is no option for me but to choose between two people I do not like...

 

 

I strongly disagree with this.

 

I absolutely believe that America has earned the bad candidates we have today because we can be talked into playing some twisted political game instead of voting our conscience. If we don't hold ourselves accountable to our own conscience --why should we expect our elected officials to do the same??!!

 

If i stay home and DON'T vote, who gets my wasted vote??

It's simply not assigned to anyone, period.

 

I have no problem voting third party or writing in someone cuz if I do that, then i am COMPLETELY convinced that it really doesn't matter which of the other 2 would win.

 

This actually sounds like "new thread" material, but I'm fixin' to take 5 kids and a dog camping by myself this weekend. I'd miss it, lol.

 

 

and yeah....my Limbaugh-listenin' Right Wing Wacko Talk Radio Nut dh is already pretty livid that i am planning to write in Ron Paul ;) my kids are getting quite a bit of exposure to gvt discussion tho.....!

[beansprouts]

and yeah....my Limbaugh-listenin' Right Wing Wacko Talk Radio Nut dh is already pretty livid that i am planning to write in Ron Paul ;) my kids are getting quite a bit of exposure to gvt discussion tho.....!

 

:smilielol5:

 

I will await your new thread :lurk5: