krstbrwn Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 I'm just wondering what other suggestions there are for highschool Chemistry besides Apologia. I've used it, and I'm not totally dissatisfied. I'm just wondering what other options might be out there that I don't know about. Thanks in advance for any suggestions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HollyDay Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 I'm in the same boat. I do not want to use Apologia. But, I also do not care for BJU when it is used as a stand alone. It is probably quite good with the dvds but that makes my budget very tight and I will have to "makeup" for it in another area. A few IRL families are very pleased with Abeka chemistry, but I've not looked at it in person. They do tell me the lab materials are pricey but some alternatives are available. I've known a couple families who have used AOP's chemistry, either LifePac or SOS. I'm not sure what they think of the content, other than it is convenient. I'm really interested in Spectrum Chemistry. But, this thread response:http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2335660#post2335660 makes me a bit nervous about it. I've never seriously investigated the DIVE science cds (but I guess I better take a look). I think they use either BJU or Apologia and, if I recall correctly, both levels of Apologia are required. But, that brings the subject back to Apologia. Conceptual Chemistry has been mentioned favorably on this board and you might want to do a thread search for it. If you find something wonderful, please pass it along! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kareni Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 You might find some of these older threads of interest: What about a great science (biology, chemistry, etc) for the not so science driven? Out of the Box ideas for Chemistry and US Government? Help ~ non math Chemistry curriculum? Regards, Kareni Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krstbrwn Posted January 16, 2011 Author Share Posted January 16, 2011 Thanks for the sites. I do still want a Chemistry course with the math. I'm afraid if we skip out on that we'll regret it when they are in college. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle in AL Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 We're using Oak Meadow chemistry along with DIVE Chemistry for lectures and labs. It's worked out well. I supplement sometimes with extra equations, but don't know if that's necessary. Everything is broken down into bite size, digestible pieces that are understandable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura in CA Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 We're using Spectrum and *love* it. In fact the boys (that includes my ps son and my husband) are looking forward to doing Lab 19 this evening, making a hot flame from ethanol in a gel :D I have two degrees in chemistry (although I haven't been a "practicing" chemist for quite a while) and I find it a wonderful program for bright kids who don't want much repetition and who pick up the basics quickly. Apologia biology was starting to drive my kids batty ... although they didn't hate it ... this is a better fit for our family for chemistry than Apologia, however. We started out this year using Holt (what a lab class my son is taking in Berkeley recommended) and quickly bailed -- along with at least three other families. Too wordy -- even I was getting confused, haha. I'm so happy Kathy in Richmond recommended Spectrum :001_smile: The labs use real chemicals, there are a lot of them but they don't take too long, and they work! We've had great customer service -- two orders, one of textbook & chemicals, another ordering a second set of textbook/manual -- with everything arriving within a week. I did pay by credit card (or was it PayPal?) through their website, so perhaps a check slowed things down?? Anyway I'll respond on that other thread - hadn't seen it until it was linked to above. ~Laura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwen in VA Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Chemadvantage.com is fantastic. My kids have done both the Honors Chemistry and the AP Chemistry classes. We are VERY happy customers. The classes doa great job preparing for the chemistry SAT2 and AP exams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brindee Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Chemadvantage.com is fantastic. My kids have done both the Honors Chemistry and the AP Chemistry classes. We are VERY happy customers. The classes doa great job preparing for the chemistry SAT2 and AP exams. Thank you for the link! What is the math level requirement/prereqs for the Honors Chem.? I couldn't find them listed, though I probably missed them somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura in CA Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Chemadvantage.com is fantastic. My kids have done both the Honors Chemistry and the AP Chemistry classes. We are VERY happy customers. The classes doa great job preparing for the chemistry SAT2 and AP exams. We're planning to use Chemadvantage for AP Chem! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brindee Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 We're planning to use Chemadvantage for AP Chem!AP Chem must offer WAY more than the Honors Chem. It's more than twice as much! Is it worth that much more to get the AP credit as opposed to Honors? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
April in CA Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Hi Kristi! Last year in 10th grade, my sone used the DIVE Chemistry cd in conjunction with both Apologia texts. You ca find various syllabi on the DIVE website showing in what order to read various textbooks to make them work with DIVE. My son really enjoyed chemistry last year and is now doing AP Chemistry with ChemAdvantage, which we found through PA Homeschoolers. My son really enjoys the class and is learning so much that he is considering chemical engineering as a possible college major. I feel it is money well-spent since I can't duplicate the course at home. The class is asynchronous, so the students do not have a set time to meet in a virtual classroom; thus, there is little to no interaction with other students, but the instructor is available to help at any time. He also gives very clear assignments and my son feels he is being well-prepared for the AP exam. Since we had time for 2 years of chemistry, I am very glad we chose to do both years this way. Hope this helps! Blessings, April Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brenda in MA Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 We're using Spectrum and *love* it. In fact the boys (that includes my ps son and my husband) are looking forward to doing Lab 19 this evening, making a hot flame from ethanol in a gel :D I have two degrees in chemistry (although I haven't been a "practicing" chemist for quite a while) and I find it a wonderful program for bright kids who don't want much repetition and who pick up the basics quickly. Apologia biology was starting to drive my kids batty ... although they didn't hate it ... this is a better fit for our family for chemistry than Apologia, however. We started out this year using Holt (what a lab class my son is taking in Berkeley recommended) and quickly bailed -- along with at least three other families. Too wordy -- even I was getting confused, haha. I'm so happy Kathy in Richmond recommended Spectrum :001_smile: The labs use real chemicals, there are a lot of them but they don't take too long, and they work! We've had great customer service -- two orders, one of textbook & chemicals, another ordering a second set of textbook/manual -- with everything arriving within a week. I did pay by credit card (or was it PayPal?) through their website, so perhaps a check slowed things down?? Anyway I'll respond on that other thread - hadn't seen it until it was linked to above. ~Laura :iagree: I'm using Spectrum Chem this year with my 9th grader, and we are both loving it, the labs especially. We just finished the one where you make a battery out of chemicals that lights an LED. I used Apologia with my older son, and IMHO, Spectrum is far better at developing a conceptual understanding of Chemistry. It includes plenty of math for us, and best of all, it's making my son love Chemistry. In a year or two, we will look at either ChemAdvantage for AP Chem or he will take Chem at the local community college. Brenda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HollyDay Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Is Algebra 1 enough for Spectrum Chemistry? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kangato3 Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 We're using Oak Meadow chemistry along with DIVE Chemistry for lectures and labs. It's worked out well. I supplement sometimes with extra equations, but don't know if that's necessary. Everything is broken down into bite size, digestible pieces that are understandable. I've been looking at both of these programs and was wondering how you combined them? Did your student do problems from both? Did you omit Oak Meadow labs? Thanks for any insight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura in CA Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 :iagree: I'm using Spectrum Chem this year with my 9th grader, and we are both loving it, the labs especially. We just finished the one where you make a battery out of chemicals that lights an LED. That's the only one that didn't work for us, and only because my son spilled some of the chemicals (he's learning to be more careful! He lives large :001_smile:) I was looking forward to lighting the LED ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura in CA Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Is Algebra 1 enough for Spectrum Chemistry? I'm hoping Kathy in Richmond will jump in here, as she's more familiar with both Spectrum and the math sequences, but I looked ahead in the Spectrum text and they do have calculations with pH in the later chapters ... for calculating pH it's useful to have some familiarity with logarithms. In the beginning of the course they do unit conversions (changing km to inches, for example), and students are also expected to be able to manipulate numbers with exponents, such as 6 x 10^23. Being familiar with scientific notation and significant figures is also useful. Oh, here's a quote from the "Prerequisites" section on the first page of the teacher's manual -- it says it better than I can: Prerequisites High school chemistry requires a thorough working knowledge of Algebra I. Specifically, students will be required to rearrange algebraic equations having up to six variables each having units of measure associated with them. They will be taught to express answers in scientific notation and to the correct number of significant figures. However, if they are not already well-versed in these subjects, we offer a course called Bridge Math that will thoroughly develop these talents and test the student's preparedness for this course. HTH! ~Laura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brenda in MA Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 That's the only one that didn't work for us, and only because my son spilled some of the chemicals (he's learning to be more careful! He lives large :001_smile:) I was looking forward to lighting the LED ... Well, before we started the lab, I was pretty skeptical that it would work, but it really did! The LED stayed lit for about 5 minutes and then started to fade out. The electrodes built up some nice copper deposits, too. I really wished I had used this course with my oldest as well. He's been home from college these past couple of weeks and has been a bit jealous, I think, that his little bro's chemistry is so much more interesting than what he used. I hope the flaming gel works out well for you. I know my son will enjoy that one as well, but I've got to find a safe place to do it. We have over 2 ft of snow now, so outside might be tricky. Brenda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathy in Richmond Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Hi! I just came across this thread this morning. Both of my kids used Spectrum chemistry in ninth grade. We loved it for the reasons mentioned already: great conceptual coverage, just enough practice for quick learners who don't care for wordiness and repetition, and the wonderful labs. I enjoyed doing the labs as much with dd the second time around as I did with my ds. About math prerequisites: You need to have at the minimum a solid grounding in algebra one. Besides scientific notation, unit conversions, balancing equations, and stoichiometric calculations, the kids should be comfortable manipulating equations of several variables. For example, gas laws: P*V = n*R* T. Can they solve for one variable in terms of the others? Can they tell you what happens to P if V decreases and the other variables are held constant? Can they sketch a graph of P versus V in that case? Also, as Laura mentioned, there is a section on pH that uses logarithms. They are briefly explained in the text before they're used in calculations. Just as important as specific math skills is attention to detail. When you're working on stoichiometric calculations, it isn't always the math that's tricky; it's being able to carry out a sequence of calculations accurately. The author does sell Bridge Math, a short 7-week course, to get kids ready for the math in Spectrum. We haven't used that, though. Maybe someone who has can comment on that. One last thing: if your student is planning to take AP chemistry eventually, my kids would advise you to try to plan Spectrum and AP chem in back-to-back years if possible. The transition to the AP text was smoother with the knowledge of basic chemistry fresh in their heads. Then they could spend less time on review topics and proceed faster to the more advanced AP topics. Lastly, we've ordered from Beginnings Publishing directly four times over the years (Rainbow and Spectrum twice each) and had great customer service. But the latest was four years ago; I haven't ordered recently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HollyDay Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Thanks for the math answer. Dd will be Algebra 1 complete when she starts the program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krstbrwn Posted January 17, 2011 Author Share Posted January 17, 2011 Thanks so much for the responses. I'm glad to know about other programs that don't offer less math. It's not that I disliked Apologia, but I did get frustrated with the lack of practice problems. For my oldest dd it takes repetition to bring a point home. I was planning on finding a way to supplement Apologia, but it occured to me that something better might be out there. Also, my second dd who will do Chemistry next year, is a totally different student, and I would like to find a way to challenge her and see her enjoy Chemistry. I will check out all of the afore mentioned curriculums. Thanks so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moira in MA Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Chemadvantage.com is fantastic. My kids have done both the Honors Chemistry and the AP Chemistry classes. We are VERY happy customers. The classes doa great job preparing for the chemistry SAT2 and AP exams. Chemadvantage honors chemistry users here, too. The level of learning is wonderful and dd is fully engaged. ~Moira Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krstbrwn Posted January 17, 2011 Author Share Posted January 17, 2011 I am seriously considering Chemadvantage. I have used several outside sources this year for high school subjects, and I have been so pleased with the results. It is challenging my children, and they are learning responsibility and how to juggle multiple assignments. I have a hard time making a course more challenging, and I also have a hard time forcing them to stick to a schedule. I seem to be willing to bend when I know they have other assignments due. It is so much better when they don't have a choice. I'm not sure what all this says about me:), but at least I'm honest with myself. These classes have been the preparation for the rigor of college, and frankly the rigor of grown up life. Thanks again for all the suggestions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura in CA Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Hi! I just came across this thread this morning. If you hadn't seen it, I was going to pm you :001_smile: Thanks, as always, for the detailed advice! One last thing: if your student is planning to take AP chemistry eventually, my kids would advise you to try to plan Spectrum and AP chem in back-to-back years if possible. The transition to the AP text was smoother with the knowledge of basic chemistry fresh in their heads. Then they could spend less time on review topics and proceed faster to the more advanced AP topics. Hmmm ... good advice. I will show this to my son, but he is eager to do physics (just high-school level) next year, so it may be a hard sell. :001_smile: ~Laura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura in CA Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Well, before we started the lab, I was pretty skeptical that it would work, but it really did! The LED stayed lit for about 5 minutes and then started to fade out. The electrodes built up some nice copper deposits, too. I really wished I had used this course with my oldest as well. He's been home from college these past couple of weeks and has been a bit jealous, I think, that his little bro's chemistry is so much more interesting than what he used. I hope the flaming gel works out well for you. I know my son will enjoy that one as well, but I've got to find a safe place to do it. We have over 2 ft of snow now, so outside might be tricky. The LED lab sounds cool. If only my son hadn't upset the vial with the solution (it was tricky layering the liquids, and the vials are so small and light ...). He actually spilled some of the ethanol for the flaming gel lab, too, so we had only about 7 ml instead of 20+ ml of the ethanol, but it still worked great. It made a pretty blue flame. I suppose it would have burned a lot longer if we'd had more fuel. Oh, and Brenda, we did it inside, on the stove (we put the aluminum boat on a metal burner cover). We just made sure there wasn't anything nearby that might burn. I think it's quite do-able indoors. (I'm envious of your snow, as it's warm & sunny here -- 60s. I grew up in Buffalo :001_smile:) ~Laura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Hmmm ... good advice. I will show this to my son, but he is eager to do physics (just high-school level) next year, so it may be a hard sell. :001_smile: ~Laura Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.......is right!! Ds really wants to do AP physics next yr. Switching gears to chemistry will be a very hard sell indeed!! I'm going to really have to think this through. :tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brenda in MA Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.......is right!! Ds really wants to do AP physics next yr. Switching gears to chemistry will be a very hard sell indeed!! I'm going to really have to think this through. :tongue_smilie: I'm going to have to think this through as well. Since my son is only in 9th grade this year, I'm not sure he'll be able to handle the rigors of AP science just yet -- at least that's my concern. Academically, I think he'd be fine, I'm just worried about him juggling the workload with all the other non-school stuff he wants to keep doing. Decisions, decisions..... Kathy -- if you're still reading, can you give some idea of the workload for AP Chem? Also -- there's the concern that the College Board is saying that they are going to revise AP Chem, and that makes me wonder what will change and whether I'll be able to find a class that would prepare him for the "new" test if he took it in a few years..... Brenda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathy in Richmond Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 My kids also like physics best of all the sciences, and I let my son study AP physics in tenth grade, following a year of Spectrum chemistry in ninth grade. Then he returned to AP chemistry in eleventh grade using Zumdahl's text. It just took him a little while to get back into chemistry after the lapse, but it wasn't impossible by any means. My daughter, on the other hand, went directly into AP chem in tenth grade. She was able to breeze through the first several chapters, giving her more time to concentrate on the more difficult stuff like titration curves, thermodynamics, rate laws, and electrochemistry. They both did fine in the end, so it's possible either way...I wouldn't have been able to sell my son on chemistry in place of physics next, either! I think they each spent about an hour a day on AP chemistry. My dd just finished the syllabus faster, and she had plenty of time to prepare for the test. My son used Barron's AP prep guide; my dd did that and also several old released multiple choice and free response questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In The Great White North Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 Did you all buy the $250 lab kit to go with ChemAdvantage? I have a lot of chem supplies, equipment, chemicals left from dd's first year of chem and really don't want to repurchase all this stuff - just what I need, you know? Does he use the lab manual in the kit or send his own directions? Do you use the lab book in the kit at all, since he requires you to buy a different one also? Could anyone post a list of what labs his AP Chem course required? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngieW in Texas Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 I'm going to use Nivaldo Tro's Introductory Chemistry next year. I ordered a bunch of different books from amazon to look at and it looks far better than the others. I'm going to use LabPaqs for the labs, but I may supplement with demonstrations from Conceptual Chemistry and Prentice Hall Chemistry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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