Reposting a worthwhile 7th and 8th grade thread

[swimmermom3]

I'm not sure if I have linked this before for this new subforum, but I found a printout today from this great thread and thought some of you might really enjoy it. Janice in NJ's post is well-worth your time if you are in the contemplative mood.

[Capt_Uhura]

Ah yes! That one is definitely a keeper! I know I copied Janice's post into a file but I just copied it into a new one....better to have two copies than none!

[Negin]

Thank you so much. :grouphug:

[Ann.without.an.e]

Thanks for reposting a great thread.

[tjarnold]

Thank you so much for suggesting this thread. It looks very helpful.

 

Tiffany

[elegantlion]

I'm getting a little teary reading through that thread. I remember when it was first posted and it was EXTREMELY helpful to me last year as I planned this year. *sniff* I have many of those posts printed and have read them several times as encouragement.

[BridgeTea]

I'm getting a little teary reading through that thread. I remember when it was first posted and it was EXTREMELY helpful to me last year as I planned this year. *sniff* I have many of those posts printed and have read them several times as encouragement.

 

Same here. In fact, that printout was highlighted and became the beginnings of a file I labelled "Middle School Skills/Encouragement". At the time, my girl was 11.5, and I was pretty sure she was not yet in logic stage, whatever that looked like! (20/20 hindsight: she wasn't, but soon would be :) ) That file - every bit from The Hive - has been a great help in keeping me grounded and focused.

 

Thank you to the original posters, and for the reminder to read once more! Lots of good stuff in there.

[Tohru]

Oh goodness! Thanks so much for linking this thread. It is EXACTLY where we are at right now and reading the words of wisdom and encouragement make going through it not so difficult. :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

[Avila]

Does anybody want to share their thoughts on what Janice said about doing high school courses in junior high? I read it when it first was discussed, but I didn't have a child old enough to actually have to take action on it either way.

 

What she said makes complete sense to me. I was one of those kids who had all that stuff early, and by 12th grade, I was burnt out in the areas that were not my strong points. But if all the other transcripts of incoming freshman are showing those courses, I wonder if I have the nerve to be different with my own kid and buck the trend. And if any of it really matters to college admissions.

 

So did anyone else decide to change anything after reading that thread?

[Janice in NJ]

Hi Shelly!

 

Just to clarify. My kids all finish algebra in 8th grade. I shoot for AP Calculus in the senior year. So far, this has worked with my oldest, and I suspect it will work well with the other two. Dd is a 10th grader; she finished algebra prior to high school. In 9th she had geometry with proofs. This year she is working through Algebra II. Eleventh grade will be Precalculus. Then Calc her senior year. AB/BC will be decided at the time. I plan to follow the same trajectory with my youngest. PLEASE note that not all folks do this. Search the high school boards for "Kathy in Richmond"; her daughter was a very gifted high school student. She's pursuing mathematics in college; her path was FAR more advanced than this. There are others on the high school boards. Many. They can offer you alternate perspectives. My kids like mathematics, but they don't love it like their momma. Calculus by the senior year with a solid foundation has been fine for all of the engineering schools my oldest has been interested in; more was not needed. This path is comfortable for our family; it's more than enough. Finding classes beyond calculus for kids who are not really-quick learners is not easy, so that entered into our decision. If my kids were going to move PAST calculus, I wanted outside courses for validation. AoPS offers classes, but the pace was too fast for my gang. :001_smile: So weigh what I offer up as only one choice. :001_smile:

 

Ds (my senior) only had two years of foreign language: Spanish I and II. I MADE him take Spanish I in 8th grade. He HATED it! I made him complete another year in 9th grade. Spanish II was even more of a drag for this young man. We did not move onto Spanish III. So he ended up with 1 foreign language credit on his transcript: Spanish II with a note in the course description that he completed Spanish I in 8th grade. So far none of the engineering schools have batted an eyelash, but it wouldn't be ideal for a humanities student or a student applying to an ultra-competitive college; they like to see more foreign language.

 

Dd had Latin I & II in 7th & 8th grade - this followed lots of Latin and Greek in elem. school. She hated the class. We quit at the end of 8th grade. So this makes no appearance on her high school transcript - despite the $900+ for the classes + books + tons of hours spent. No mention on her transcript. She's enjoying her French class. Her transcript lists French II for 9th and III for 10th. She will probably continue with French IV & V in 11th and 12th. Her voice teacher also requested that she study Italian; she completed RS Italian I in 9th and is working through Level II this year. Her voice teacher is teaching her to pronounce and understand a bit of German; if she wants to dabble in that one for real we'll have to make some time in 11th or 12th.

BUT her transcript will have French II - V for high school. Really quite "normal."

 

Once again, there are PLENTY of folks on the high school boards who run more advanced programs. The way I see it? The kid needs to PEAK their junior year with plenty to "show off" on their transcript. These are the grades and test scores that the colleges will see. AND they also need room for something of merit during their senior year. But it can't be too much merit cause they will be busy handling a LOT with the application process. It's not the time to racket things WAY up. The senior year is a time to ride the plateau already established during that peak junior year. It's a BUSY time so you don't want A TON of really, really over-the-top courses especially during the fall - unless your kid is really used to that. BUT they need to be taking "challenging" courses that show that they aren't completely slacking off. Tough to juggle. EASIER to do in the areas that the kid thrives in. Tough to do if your kid hates (or is even indifferent to) math and you have nothing left but diff. equations. :001_smile: You have to know your kid. My oldest still needed another shot at the SAT and the ACT. He also took his first "real" class over at the community college; I wanted him to have the time to do well and really ENJOY the experience. And the college app process really does take time. It's just a busy time.

 

Does that make sense? I realize that it's really tough to carve out your family's path when you haven't been there before. Gosh, I know it's hard. Hindsight makes this much easier for me to read my younger kids and know when to push and when to relax. I guess all I'm saying is that more isn't always better. Sometimes good enough is good enough. My oldest is applying to good schools, but he's not MIT/Princeton/Cornell material. I used to wonder about that: nature/nurture and all that. Now I understand the difference for me and mine. I want my kids to go where they will fit, not where they might fit if they try really hard. Yes, I want them to work hard in college. I want them to do their best. Certainly. But I want them to land in communities where they belong. For mine, that doesn't mean Diff Equ. in high school. Kids who are ready for that at age 17 are different than my kids. No one here even LOOKS at a math problem if they don't have to - except me. But I have no desire to drag the bus on that one. Calculus by senior year is more than enough. :001_smile:

 

Peace to you and yours as you find and climb onto your family plateaus.

Janice

 

Enjoy your little people

Enjoy your journey

 

Oh - giggle - forgot to mention. DD - the 10th grader - is also taking AP Eng Comp this year. She is a good writer, but I was tentative. It's a TOUGH class. She's doing well, and I suspect that she'll do well on the exam although she is young so anything can happen. It is a risky move. BUT she needed this class - NOT because of her transcript but because of her personality. I kept telling her that she was a solid writer; she needed affirmation from someone else. It has motivated her to work really hard. So it's been a top-notch experience. BUT I tried AP Comp with my oldest and it was WAY too much for him. He needed to be working at a high-school level as a writer. We withdrew from the course mid-year and went back to high-school writing. He took Freshman Comp this fall and scored an A in the class. His prof told him that he was a very good writer. He's not ready to breeze through comp at say Emory or Princeton or Harvard. But he's on a GREAT trajectory. And just like my dd, it's only great because it fits. The right challenges at the right time.

 

Tough to figure out. But great when you nail it.

Edited January 4, 2011 by Janice in NJ

[Avila]

Janice,

 

Thanks so much for your reply!

 

I guess I am trying to figure out that balance between pushing too much and challenging enough. For us, that may be doing a few high school classes in 8th grade, but I don't think it will be as many as I was initially looking at! I took them all that way, and by 12th grade, all I wanted to do was coast. I don't know if that will be good enough these days for my kids. And I don't want to cheat them. So maybe I can hit more of a balance than what I was thinking earlier. It is so easy for me to see all the wonderful, exciting advanced things people are doing on the high school boards and want to do them all too. But maybe that isn't necessary.

 

Anyhow, you have given me a lot to think about, and I was just wondering if anyone else was thinking about the same things after it was reposted.

[Janice in NJ]

I truly hope more folks respond, Shelly. A lot of balanced voices help SO much more than just a couple of loud ones!!!!! :001_smile:

 

Peace,

Janice

[JennW in SoCal]

I guess I am trying to figure out that balance between pushing too much and challenging enough. For us, that may be doing a few high school classes in 8th grade....

 

[snip]

 

It is so easy for me to see all the wonderful, exciting advanced things people are doing on the high school boards and want to do them all too. But maybe that isn't necessary.

 

It shouldn't be a choice of doing high school work in 8th grade or not, nor should you worry about following the traditional path of 4 years of full time high school. If you mosey on over to the high school board, you'll see a thread on whether 4 years of high school is necessary or not. So many factors enter in -- the temperament of the teen, their interests, their goals, the quality of the local community colleges. There is no right or wrong path.

 

One of the beauties of homeschooling is the flexible schedule, and the opportunities to pursue interests. So many kids who follow the college prep AP route in traditional high schools don't know what they love to do, can't see life past college because of the pressure to simply get into college. But a homeschooler can get out there in the real world and explore different fields. Middle school is the perfect time to start exploring those interests, to start looking for outside volunteer jobs.

 

Internships and volunteer jobs can break up that pressure of high school college prep course work. Both my boys had internships, with mentors who went out of their way to teach them. They both received course credit for those internships by producing papers or presentations about their experience.

 

Community college has been a terrific experience for my kids, but I'm fortunate to have a couple of good ones nearby to choose from. My youngest took the California Proficiency Exam so he can attend full time as he wants the advance math and science courses that are far out of my league, and he knew he would do better with a real Spanish course than he did with SOS Spanish.

 

I'm not sure how this fits into what you were asking, Shelly! Just some further musings. If your child is truly ready to do high school level work in 8th grade, then go for it. By truly ready I mean can handle meatier content, is mature enough to discuss more in depth and to do more "output" such essays and research papers. One of my kids was, the other wasn't. And graduating early isn't necessarily a good thing. While I'm fine with my 15yo going to community college full time, I'm considering it his final years of high school. He won't be transferring and moving away to a 4 year college until he is 17 or 18 as there is a lot of growing up yet to do.

 

So, keep the goal of college in mind, but don't make your entire lives revolve around it for the next 5 years because it sucks out the joy of the journey. Trust me. When they move away, it is the long afternoons reading aloud that you will remember, the time you watched Hamlet on a rainy afternoon, the times you abandoned school for the day and went to the zoo or the movies. Don't let your quest for high school credits rob you of that.

 

Good grief I'm long winded --- this is what happens when I come to the WTM boards to procrastinate!!

[8filltheheart]

Does anybody want to share their thoughts on what Janice said about doing high school courses in junior high? I read it when it first was discussed, but I didn't have a child old enough to actually have to take action on it either way.

 

What she said makes complete sense to me. I was one of those kids who had all that stuff early, and by 12th grade, I was burnt out in the areas that were not my strong points. But if all the other transcripts of incoming freshman are showing those courses, I wonder if I have the nerve to be different with my own kid and buck the trend. And if any of it really matters to college admissions.

 

So did anyone else decide to change anything after reading that thread?

 

I didn't read the other thread, so take this with a grain of salt. ;)

 

I don't think there is a right "one size fits all" answer. I have a child that would be bored to tears if he were doing typical 9th grade math and science. It's all I can do to hold him at a pace where he doesn't let them consume all of his time and squeeze out other interests, hobbies, activities.

 

I have a dd that is pretty much right on par with an avg 11th grade load. She is a dedicated student, slow and diligent. I have no doubt that she will succeed at whatever she sets her mind to, but she has not been so academically advanced that I want her to be a college student in 11th grade (though she would have no problem attending our CC full-time and making straight As. Her workload is much harder than what her older brother did this last semester at the CC. So, I am referring to solid college level work.)

 

I personally don't think there should be this angst or worry about transitioning between elementary and middle school and between middle school and high school. Education can be as simple as progressing one step at a time. One child's footsteps do not need to resemble another's. Progression just needs to occur appropriately for the individual.

 

I do think that there is a need to be realistic about where their education will guide them when it comes to college admissions, though. My dd is not a competitive applicant for top tier schools. She will be applying at pretty typical avg schools. Her younger brother, otoh, plans on applying to extremely competitive schools. It doesn't mean that either of them should have done/do something different. They are simply 2 different individuals with 2 different sets of goals and abilities.

[Beth in SW WA]

I'm not sure if I have linked this before for this new subforum, but I found a printout today from this great thread and thought some of you might really enjoy it. Janice in NJ's post is well-worth your time if you are in the contemplative mood.

 

 

Oh. 'That' thread. I remember it well. :001_smile:

 

Thanks for reviving it. I was a new'ish homeschool mom at the time.

 

Janice, Jane, Lori, Gwen, Karen -- and other 'oldies' from that era were, and still are, such a blessing to me. I hope they know that. So many books on my shelves are direct recommendations from these fine ladies.

 

I just wish we could get Janice to share the video of her 'Hobbit' seminar with her dc. Brilliant. I think about it often.

 

As for doing high school courses in jr. high...That is the route we took (and are still taking). The Potters School is such a blessing. Rigorous high-school-level courses available to middlers. We love it. Well worth every penny. Dd is accountable to these amazing teachers. I don't have words to express how thankful I am for Potters School.

 

Both of my older dc did high school level Latin, math & writing in middle school. High school is a breeze for ds (now in private high school)-- who has plenty of time for leadership, church, music, sports, etc.

 

I wouldn't change a thing that we did in the past. For my little dds coming down the pike, I will ramp up everything even more at an earlier age. They are eager learners and I will follow their lead.

 

Again, thanks for reviving this thread, Swimmermom. Great memories. :)

[Dina in Oklahoma]

Thanks~ couldn't have been more timely!

 

Dina :001_smile: