Would AWANA be inappropriate for EO or RC?

[knit247]

And if so - is there anything like it?

 

I have, for some time, felt like I wasn't in the right place (so to speak) and have been reading some of the recent posts about RC and EO with great interest. I would like to know more about both RC and EO, but am concerned that a program such as AWANA may not be a good fit (no idea if it would or wouldn't - but it would be just my luck if it wasn't).

 

I grew up Presbyterian and later United Methodist. Before moving to Germany in 2009 the girls and I were very active in our local Baptist church (not Southern Baptist - we were Cooperative Baptist Fellowship). I taught 4yo Sunday School and the girls attended Wed. night choir and Mission Kids. DH grew up with a Catholic (maternal-side) / Southern Baptist (paternal-side) background. Honestly, he will go to a church service (must be traditional - no contemporary music, etc.) but has no real desire to get any more involved than that.

 

Since we have moved here, however, we have not found a church. The English-speaking ones are almost all contemporary and while it hasn't bothered me it very much bothers DH. There is one traditional Protestant service on base, but it is not a fit. At all.

 

So, what we do do - and LOVE - is AWANA. All the girls' friends do AWANA. I am a "dedicated listener" each week for Sparks. My DDs have learned so much and would be crushed if they couldn't go each week.

 

Could someone LMK? I feel so empty and lonely with our church situation lately. I don't want to take away something - the only thing - that we have right now. I feel like I am being led down a path that might change everything...

[Parrothead]

Sadly, no. AWANA is not really appropriate for Catholic or Orthodox kids. I know there isn't a national program such as AWANA for Catholic kids. Parishes that are very active may have something similar. Back in the day when I was PCL for my then current parish, I looked into starting something for that parish, but materials were few and far between.

[knit247]

Sadly, no. AWANA is not really appropriate for Catholic or Orthodox kids.

 

I was fearful that that would be the answer... Thanks for the quick reply.

[8circles]

Sadly, no. AWANA is not really appropriate for Catholic or Orthodox kids. I know there isn't a national program such as AWANA for Catholic kids. Parishes that are very active may have something similar. Back in the day when I was PCL for my then current parish, I looked into starting something for that parish, but materials were few and far between.

 

Why not?

[Renee in NC]

Why not?

 

The Bible memory would not be a problem at all. However, AWANA's focus is on doctrine that is opposed to Catholic theology. The sections of their faith statement that are particularly problematic are Salvation, The Church, and The Ordinances. I did find it interesting that their stance on the Bible is not opposed to Catholic doctrine as many evangelical Statements of Faith are.

Edited January 1, 2011 by Renee in FL

[Parrothead]

Well, because the doctrines are different. I've never heard of an ecumenical AWANA. AWANA teaches Protestant children to be good Protestants. Catholic (and EO) children should be taught to be good Catholics (or EO respectively).

 

I'd liken it to the Catholic kid in my town that is going to the Christian school. Last year when dd had a homeschooling crisis we visited the Christian school as a possibly choice. While talking with the headmaster I found out that the school uses materials from BJU. Now if you've been around a while you know that Catholics pretty much find materials from BJU to be blatently anti-catholic. So this poor Catholic kid is being fed a daily dose of how his religion is wrong.

 

I'm not saying AWANA materials are exactly like BJU materials but I'm sure you can see that the possibility is there. Something your average Protestant may not find offensive could be highly offensive or even down right scary for a Catholic child. The question "Are you saved?" then being told that one who is not saved is going to hell can be downright scary. Yet being Saved is not something Catholics believe in. At least not as most Protestants do.

Edited January 1, 2011 by Parrothead

[8circles]

The Bible memory would not be a problem at all. However, AWANA's focus is on doctrine that is opposed to Catholic theology. The sections of their faith statement that are particularly problematic are Salvation, The Church, and The Ordinances. I did find it interesting that their stance on the Bible is not opposed to Catholic doctrine as many evangelical Statements of Faith are.

 

OK - I'll have to read through those again.

ETA: OK - I'm seeing the problem with Salvation (once saved always saved) & The Church (free of external authority, etc) & The Ordinances (symbolic communion). Just as an FYI, I haven't seen these things discussed & I have a 3rd-year Spark, 1st year Spark, & 1st year Cubbie. I'm going to be more aware of this now, just because I'm curious.

 

Well, because the doctrines are different. I've never heard of an ecumenical AWANA. AWANA teaches Protestant children to be good Protestants. Catholic (and EO) children should be taught to be good Catholics (or EO respectively).

 

I'd liken it to the Catholic kid in my town that is going to the Christian school. Last year when dd had a homeschooling crisis we visited the Christian school as a possibly choice. While talking with the headmaster I found out that the school uses materials from BJU. Now if you've been around a while you know that Catholics pretty much find materials from BJU to be blatently anti-catholic. So this poor Catholic kid is being fed a daily dose of how his religion is wrong.

 

I'm not saying AWANA materials are exactly like BJU materials but I'm sure you can see that the possibility is there. Something your average Protestant may not find offensive could be highly offensive or even down right scary for a Catholic child. The question "Are you saved?" then being told that one who is not saved is going to hell can be downright scary.

 

I get what you are saying. However, ss far as I've seen, there isn't a lot of doctrine in the materials, simply scripture memorization. Maybe we haven't gotten to it yet.

Edited January 1, 2011 by momoflaw

[knit247]

...However, ss far as I've seen, there isn't a lot of doctrine in the materials, simply scripture memorization. Maybe we haven't gotten to it yet.

 

Same here. I have a 2nd year Sparks and 2nd year T&T. I usually sit in on the Sparks lessons but not the T&T council time. I am going to the AWANA site later to re-read the info they have there...

 

Why does this have to be so hard...and then I think of how easy I really do have it compared to many...

[Jyniffrec]

I'm EO and am a convert. I would say that you should keep taking your kids to Awana and look into RC or EO. You can't change everything at once and when and if you are ready to let Awana go you will. I would not make this a deal breaker.

 

You also don't want to just throw your kids into an entirely new situation all at once. Slowly transitioning both them and you may be a better way to handle it.

[8circles]

I'm EO and am a convert. I would say that you should keep taking your kids to Awana and look into RC or EO. You can't change everything at once and when and if you are ready to let Awana go you will. I would not make this a deal breaker.

 

You also don't want to just throw your kids into an entirely new situation all at once. Slowly transitioning both them and you may be a better way to handle it.

 

I've got to agree with this. If you haven't found anything else, why take AWANA away? I must be better than nothing, right?

[cathmom]

I'm EO and am a convert. I would say that you should keep taking your kids to Awana and look into RC or EO. You can't change everything at once and when and if you are ready to let Awana go you will. I would not make this a deal breaker.

 

You also don't want to just throw your kids into an entirely new situation all at once. Slowly transitioning both them and you may be a better way to handle it.

 

I agree.

[forty-two]

Well, because the doctrines are different. I've never heard of an ecumenical AWANA. AWANA teaches Protestant children to be good Protestants.

 

Just wanted to note that AWANA isn't generic Protestant (if there is such a thing), but a specific type of Protestant, and is equally incompatible with other Protestant denominations. I'm Lutheran, and AWANA just would not work for us either. Denying the Sacraments, for one - that's an equally big deal for us, too - and I know there are others (AWANA is Arminan, I think, which would exclude Calvinists, too).

[asta]

I've got to agree with this. If you haven't found anything else, why take AWANA away? I must be better than nothing, right?

 

I disagree.

 

Sometimes, the wrong something is worse than nothing.

 

Catholic parishes (and, I'm presuming, EO parishes) have youth groups. There is also a program for teens called "Life Teen".

 

Beyond all of that, there are "external" things kids can do that aren't religious while the adults involved are sorting out the religious details of the family. If nothing else, local YMCAs offer great programs that are designed atop a solid (non-denominational Christian) moral foundation.

 

Just a thought.

[8circles]

I disagree.

 

Sometimes, the wrong something is worse than nothing.

 

Catholic parishes (and, I'm presuming, EO parishes) have youth groups. There is also a program for teens called "Life Teen".

 

Beyond all of that, there are "external" things kids can do that aren't religious while the adults involved are sorting out the religious details of the family. If nothing else, local YMCAs offer great programs that are designed atop a solid (non-denominational Christian) moral foundation.

 

Just a thought.

 

Yes, but she's in Germany where they haven't yet found anything like this. Is learning the scriptures so bad?

[Michelle My Bell]

Just wanted to note that AWANA isn't generic Protestant (if there is such a thing), but a specific type of Protestant, and is equally incompatible with other Protestant denominations. I'm Lutheran, and AWANA just would not work for us either. Denying the Sacraments, for one - that's an equally big deal for us, too - and I know there are others (AWANA is Arminan, I think, which would exclude Calvinists, too).

 

We are reformed Baptist (calvinists) and we have AWANA in our church. A lot of times, AWANA will take on the flavor of the church it is located in. I have been involved with AWANA for 12 years, having been a leader and a director.

 

I would say that other denominations might have a problem with it, but not based on the materials alone, but more on the church's Bible Time. I don't think you can deny any of the scriptures that are memorized because they are straight out of the Bible. I also cannot think of one time where it said anyone was going to hell in the handbooks.

 

You may find that they pinpoint scriptures that talk about being saved, or being born again, but again these ARE the scriptures, not AWANA.

 

Hope that helps.

[forty-two]

Yes, but she's in Germany where they haven't yet found anything like this. Is learning the scriptures so bad?

 

But it's not just the Scriptures, but a particular interpretation, one that the OP disagrees with (if she plans to convert to RCC or OC). And ideas have consequences, and wrong doctrine can - and has - destroyed lives. The OP has to decide how potentially dangerous she considers the AWANA doctrines, both intrinsically and in that it contradicts what she considers to be true - sometimes kids don't relinquish ideas they way we'd like them to. But false ideas are false ideas, even if they are promulgated by fellow Christians - and they can still do damage.

[cathmom]

I would say that other denominations might have a problem with it, but not based on the materials alone, but more on the church's Bible Time. I don't think you can deny any of the scriptures that are memorized because they are straight out of the Bible. I also cannot think of one time where it said anyone was going to hell in the handbooks.

 

You may find that they pinpoint scriptures that talk about being saved, or being born again, but again these ARE the scriptures, not AWANA.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Of course, the Catholic Bible and the Protestant Bible are different, so it's not that straightforward.

 

Yes, I agree that a Catholic child should not be in AWANA. However, that is not the OP's situation. She's just beginning to think about these things, and AWANA is something that has been good for their family in their situation. I don't think that it needs to be stopped right now.

[knit247]

I didn't mean to imply that I would stop AWANA for the girls tomorrow ;) Right now it is all that we have.

 

As I mentioned, the Protestant services on base here are not a fit for our family. Most are very contemporary and that does not suit DH at all. Although I could live with it, I prefer a more traditional service as well. There is also right now a huge uproar in the one traditional Protestant service which is causing a lot of infighting, etc. I won't go into it but can tell you that neither DH nor I want to be a part of it.

 

This same church-related problem happens to involve a fair amount of the local HS population as well. Catholics and LDS are being treated badly - very badly IMO - by a few self-righteous people. At any rate many of us have abandoned the sole HS group here in protest (and some of the Chaplains have issued a letter stating that the HS group's Statement of Faith should not be signed by anyone). It's a huge mess. And extra-hard since those who are being the nastiest are claiming to be the most Christ-like of all.

 

All that to say - our options for the children to be involved with other children has been reduced to AWANA 1x/wk and American Heritage Girls (scouting) 2x/mo. The HS group is no longer an option (although get-togethers with other HSers are always an option if/when time allows). The girls would be crushed if they couldn't go to AWANA each week...

 

I am not taking that away right now, but do wonder what will happen down the road as it becomes more clear on which path we are being led.

 

Thanks again!

[mytwomonkeys]

my kids attend awana for social purposes only. we live in a small town & our home church is an hour away. we send them to awana as an attempt to make connections within our own town. they do participate with scripture memory, but that doesn't conflict with our faith at all. if the teachings did pose a big conflict though, we'd stop sending them of course...but right now, they eat, play games, and their class time is only a small amount of awana. they also have wonderful field trips. it's a lot of fun for my kids...so far anyway.

[cathmom]

And extra-hard since those who are being the nastiest are claiming to be the most Christ-like of all.

 

 

 

sigh - isn't that usually the way?

 

:grouphug:

[Parrothead]

We are reformed Baptist (calvinists) and we have AWANA in our church. A lot of times, AWANA will take on the flavor of the church it is located in. I have been involved with AWANA for 12 years, having been a leader and a director.

 

I would say that other denominations might have a problem with it, but not based on the materials alone, but more on the church's Bible Time. I don't think you can deny any of the scriptures that are memorized because they are straight out of the Bible. I also cannot think of one time where it said anyone was going to hell in the handbooks.

 

You may find that they pinpoint scriptures that talk about being saved, or being born again, but again these ARE the scriptures, not AWANA.

 

Hope that helps.

It isn't so much the Bible passages being learned, but the possible atmosphere that one may encounter. Not to harp on the subject or anything (I've mentioned it enough times over the last two years) but my dd at about age 7 was told by another about 7-year old which we had recently had met that she (my dd) was going to Hell because she is Catholic.

 

Who willingly wants to put their kid in an atmosphere where something like that can happen?

 

Prior to this I guess I was a bit naive. I really didn't think kids would say such horrid things to other kids. And I know they are parroting things they have heard from their adults whether parents or pastors. I'm sad to admit it now, but I would keep my Catholic kid away from a program like AWANA simply because I don't want to take the chance that some other kid will do something similar.

 

One of the umpteen hundred reasons we homeschool is to protect our dd from bullies. For us this extends to this type situation.

 

So I've got nothing against learning Bible verses and singing praise songs. I just don't want anything "extra".

Edited January 1, 2011 by Parrothead

[8circles]

It isn't so much the Bible passages being learned, but the possible atmosphere that one may encounter. Not to harp on the subject or anything (I've mentioned it enough times over the last two years) but my dd at about age 7 was told by another about 7-year old which we had recently had met that she (my dd) was going to Hell because she is Catholic.

 

Who willingly wants to put their kid in an atmosphere where something like that can happen?

 

Prior to this I guess I was a bit naive. I really didn't think kids would say such horrid things to other kids. I'm sad to admit it now, but I would keep my Catholic kid away from a program like AWANA simply because I don't want to take the chance that some other kid will do something similar.

 

One of the umpteen hundred reasons we homeschool is to protect our dd from bullies. For us this extends to this type situation.

 

So I've got nothing against learning Bible verses and singing praise songs. I just don't want anything "extra".

 

I'm sorry that happened to your child, that's awful. But what would make you think that this has anything to do with AWANA? That isn't taught in our AWANA nor in any other church activity that we've participated in.

[asta]

I didn't mean to imply that I would stop AWANA for the girls tomorrow ;) Right now it is all that we have.

 

As I mentioned, the Protestant services on base here are not a fit for our family. Most are very contemporary and that does not suit DH at all. Although I could live with it, I prefer a more traditional service as well. There is also right now a huge uproar in the one traditional Protestant service which is causing a lot of infighting, etc. I won't go into it but can tell you that neither DH nor I want to be a part of it.

 

This same church-related problem happens to involve a fair amount of the local HS population as well. Catholics and LDS are being treated badly - very badly IMO - by a few self-righteous people. At any rate many of us have abandoned the sole HS group here in protest (and some of the Chaplains have issued a letter stating that the HS group's Statement of Faith should not be signed by anyone). It's a huge mess. And extra-hard since those who are being the nastiest are claiming to be the most Christ-like of all.

 

All that to say - our options for the children to be involved with other children has been reduced to AWANA 1x/wk and American Heritage Girls (scouting) 2x/mo. The HS group is no longer an option (although get-togethers with other HSers are always an option if/when time allows). The girls would be crushed if they couldn't go to AWANA each week...

 

I am not taking that away right now, but do wonder what will happen down the road as it becomes more clear on which path we are being led.

 

Thanks again!

 

Laurie,

 

You do know there is another HS group, right?

 

You might want to PM me.

 

 

a

Edited January 1, 2011 by asta

[Parrothead]

I'm sorry that happened to your child, that's awful. But what would make you think that this has anything to do with AWANA? That isn't taught in our AWANA nor in any other church activity that we've participated in.

Well, I wouldn't have thought it would happen at a Christian homeschool meeting, but it did. :001_huh:

 

I'm just very very careful now, hypervigilant really, about meeting other kids especially in a situation where religion could be a subject of conversation. Dd does have a Baptist friend. When the mother of friend and I were initially getting to know one another I realized she was circling around the topic of religion the way I was to ascertain that my family wouldn't lead her daughter astray while I was making sure their family wouldn't make my dd afraid to be Catholic.

 

I truly think this is a sad situation. I never want to limit dd's friends to people of our church, yet at the same time I never want dd afraid of her faith.

 

Oh, and dd only has three friends that are really close. The young lady who I mentioned above and a set of twins that I often count as one. They just happen to be Catholic.

 

I would really have to know the people who were running the AWANA program. I'd have to know what kind of atmosphere I would be letting dd participate in. Believe it or not, I did let her go to Baptist overnight camp for a week this past summer. The above friend's mom was councilor that week and I do trust this lady.

[cathmom]

I see where you're coming from, Parrothead. My dd was told at 7 yo by another child at a homeschool sporting event that we were going to hell for celebrating Halloween. Of course this child didn't know that our "celebration" consists of the tamest family party you could ever imagine.

[knit247]

Laurie,

 

You do know there is another HS group, right?

 

 

a

 

I am now officially freaking out. I hope I haven't offended you with anything I have posted. It never occurred to me that someone here on the boards might know me IRL. I am praying that you are one of the nice ones... ;) I can't take another round of bashing.

 

And I have heard about the other group, but was so insanely hurt by all that went on last fall that I simply gave up on all of it.

[Parrothead]

I see where you're coming from, Parrothead. My dd was told at 7 yo by another child at a homeschool sporting event that we were going to hell for celebrating Halloween. Of course this child didn't know that our "celebration" consists of the tamest family party you could ever imagine.

Oh, Sheesh! :001_huh:

 

You know, if it had been me at that age I'd've probably popped my new friend in the nose or at the very least told her that she was just stupid and had no idea what she was talking about. My dd on the other hand was terrified - for weeks.

[Gretchen in NJ]

Well, I wouldn't have thought it would happen at a Christian homeschool meeting, but it did. :001_huh:

 

I'm just very very careful now, hypervigilant really, about meeting other kids especially in a situation where religion could be a subject of conversation. Dd does have a Baptist friend. When the mother of friend and I were initially getting to know one another I realized she was circling around the topic of religion the way I was to ascertain that my family wouldn't lead her daughter astray while I was making sure their family wouldn't make my dd afraid to be Catholic.

 

I truly think this is a sad situation. I never want to limit dd's friends to people of our church, yet at the same time I never want dd afraid of her faith.

 

Oh, and dd only has three friends that are really close. The young lady who I mentioned above and a set of twins that I often count as one. They just happen to be Catholic.

 

I would really have to know the people who were running the AWANA program. I'd have to know what kind of atmosphere I would be letting dd participate in. Believe it or not, I did let her go to Baptist overnight camp for a week this past summer. The above friend's mom was councilor that week and I do trust this lady.

:iagree:It happens quite a bit. I was very shocked since I thought we had move beyond that.

[Jyniffrec]

We don't have options except evangelical groups in our area. Even the YMCA isn't immune to this. What we have done is made friends with other people who either aren't evangelical or who have established themselves as friends who don't object to our faith. What is good about it is that when we go to, for example, the tennis camp that encourages our kids to get saved, we go with our friends who don't think that way. We also respectfully discuss these things before and after the event, whatever it is. And the people we are friends with don't try to convert us and vice versa. We are all people of faith who respect each other but disagree.

[lionfamily1999]

Well, I wouldn't have thought it would happen at a Christian homeschool meeting, but it did. :001_huh:

 

I'm just very very careful now, hypervigilant really, about meeting other kids especially in a situation where religion could be a subject of conversation. Dd does have a Baptist friend. When the mother of friend and I were initially getting to know one another I realized she was circling around the topic of religion the way I was to ascertain that my family wouldn't lead her daughter astray while I was making sure their family wouldn't make my dd afraid to be Catholic.

 

I truly think this is a sad situation. I never want to limit dd's friends to people of our church, yet at the same time I never want dd afraid of her faith.

 

Oh, and dd only has three friends that are really close. The young lady who I mentioned above and a set of twins that I often count as one. They just happen to be Catholic.

 

I would really have to know the people who were running the AWANA program. I'd have to know what kind of atmosphere I would be letting dd participate in. Believe it or not, I did let her go to Baptist overnight camp for a week this past summer. The above friend's mom was councilor that week and I do trust this lady.

The hurtful misunderstanding of Catholicism does depend on the church. I found out this week that we have a lot of Catholics attending our church (Baptist). We are, ime, really Christian friendly in general (no denomination bashing) and now knowing how many Catholics go to church with us, I'm guessing we must be very friendly indeed :D

 

I was worried reading your posts that AWANA as a program is anti-Catholic, but I'm starting to think it's more the atmosphere??? I have Catholic friends and our church is going to have its very first AWANA meeting on Wednesday :hurray:. I invited my friends and their children and I'm concerned they're going to see this as an underhanded attack. I would not have invitied them, except that I understood AWANA to be nondenominational (strictly scripture) and our church is friendly....

 

You have me concerned. Should I be concerned?

[forty-two]

I'm really quite shocked at all the personal attacks that people here have experienced :(. My reason for not wanting to do Awana is just that I don't agree with the SoF on a few important points (ordinances, premillennialism, Arminian slant in the how one is saved section). I didn't figure that any of the leaders would be making a point to say that everyone else is wrong or going to hell or some such, just that they would be teaching things I thought was wrong - and since they are quite up front with their SoF, I could hardly blame them for adhering to it, kwim? I just don't want my dc being taught that, is all.

 

I'd be a bit worried wrt Catholic friends, in that the official SoF is incompatible with RCC teachings, as well as EO and some Protestants, and so I'd be surprised if the SoF beliefs didn't filter in somehow. I mean, what's the point of a SoF if no one believes or follows it? I have more respect for churches that teach what they believe, even if I disagree, than for churches who effectively ignore what they pledged to follow.

[Sahamamama]

The Bible memory would not be a problem at all. However, AWANA's focus is on doctrine that is opposed to Catholic theology. The sections of their faith statement that are particularly problematic are Salvation, The Church, and The Ordinances. I did find it interesting that their stance on the Bible is not opposed to Catholic doctrine as many evangelical Statements of Faith are.

 

:iagree:And from what I understand, there might be elements of AWANA that are outright anti-Catholic. It will stress the Bible being the only authority (sola scriptura), not the Pope or the RC Church). It will teach that we are justified through water baptism. Also, AWANA uses Protestant versions of the Bible (different number and order of books, different translations).

[Jyniffrec]

I have more respect for churches that teach what they believe, even if I disagree, than for churches who effectively ignore what they pledged to follow.

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[QueenCat]

This same church-related problem happens to involve a fair amount of the local HS population as well. Catholics and LDS are being treated badly - very badly IMO - by a few self-righteous people. At any rate many of us have abandoned the sole HS group here in protest (and some of the Chaplains have issued a letter stating that the HS group's Statement of Faith should not be signed by anyone). It's a huge mess. And extra-hard since those who are being the nastiest are claiming to be the most Christ-like of all.

 

 

 

A sad thing I've seen all too often.

[Jyniffrec]

Also, AWANA uses Protestant versions of the Bible (different number and order of books, different translations).

 

This is true, but when I taught my kids the books of the Bible I unintentionally taught them the Protestant Bible books because that is what I grew up with. Our priest was okay with it, as long as the kids know there are other books in our Bible.

[Gretchen in NJ]

This is true, but when I taught my kids the books of the Bible I unintentionally taught them the Protestant Bible books because that is what I grew up with. Our priest was okay with it, as long as the kids know there are other books in our Bible.

 

He was?

[Parrothead]

The hurtful misunderstanding of Catholicism does depend on the church. I found out this week that we have a lot of Catholics attending our church (Baptist). We are, ime, really Christian friendly in general (no denomination bashing) and now knowing how many Catholics go to church with us, I'm guessing we must be very friendly indeed :D

Good for you and your church.

I was worried reading your posts that AWANA as a program is anti-Catholic, but I'm starting to think it's more the atmosphere??? I have Catholic friends and our church is going to have its very first AWANA meeting on Wednesday :hurray:. I invited my friends and their children and I'm concerned they're going to see this as an underhanded attack. I would not have invitied them, except that I understood AWANA to be nondenominational (strictly scripture) and our church is friendly....

 

You have me concerned. Should I be concerned?

Like forty-two pointed out an SOF generally prohibits Catholics from participating. Things other things like the meanings of the verses memorized could be "wrong" for Catholics and others like Orthodox kids.

 

The atmosphere is a personal thing because of what happened to us a couple years ago. Not all children would tell their new friends they are stupid. And in the same manner I'd have a talk with any Catholic kid in my presence that told someone of another denomination some kind of foolishness.

 

I'm really quite shocked at all the personal attacks that people here have experienced :(. My reason for not wanting to do Awana is just that I don't agree with the SoF on a few important points (ordinances, premillennialism, Arminian slant in the how one is saved section). I didn't figure that any of the leaders would be making a point to say that everyone else is wrong or going to hell or some such, just that they would be teaching things I thought was wrong - and since they are quite up front with their SoF, I could hardly blame them for adhering to it, kwim? I just don't want my dc being taught that, is all.

 

I'd be a bit worried wrt Catholic friends, in that the official SoF is incompatible with RCC teachings, as well as EO and some Protestants, and so I'd be surprised if the SoF beliefs didn't filter in somehow. I mean, what's the point of a SoF if no one believes or follows it? I have more respect for churches that teach what they believe, even if I disagree, than for churches who effectively ignore what they pledged to follow.

Often times Protestant SOFs are either purposefully or accidentally written to effectively exclude Catholics, Orthodox and from what I'm reading in the LDS thread them, and I'd bet the JWs.

 

Other things like a Protestant Bible, the meaning of Bible verses, not to mention the whole saved by grace thing that would lead me to believe AWANA isn't for RE, EO, LDS or JWs in general. Especially if another option were available locally.

 

Wasn't there a Lutheran that said AWANA isn't for them either. That surprised me, but shouldn't have.

:iagree:And from what I understand, there might be elements of AWANA that are outright anti-Catholic. It will stress the Bible being the only authority (sola scriptura), not the Pope or the RC Church). It will teach that we are justified through water baptism. Also, AWANA uses Protestant versions of the Bible (different number and order of books, different translations).

Yes, exactly. I don't knwo that AWANA is specifically anti-Catholic. I've never heard that. But just simple things like Bible translation and interpretation could be unwittingly anti-Catholic or Orthodox, or LDS or ...

[Jyniffrec]

He was?

 

Well, yes, he was. :001_smile: All the books in the Protestant Bible are in the EO Bible. What he emphasized was that the books are ordered differently and that they have different names. I don't think he was thrilled with it, but he didn't require us to back track either.

[forty-two]

My understanding of the Awana SoF is that the kids/parents don't have to sign it - they can be anything - iirc Awana has an evangelizing focus, and so it would be silly to exclude anyone who doesn't already believe as you do. The SoF is just for the hosting church (and maybe leaders) to sign. I don't really think of it as being anti-Catholic or anti-Lutheran or whatnot - we're all welcome to attend - and learn the error of our ways ;). I guess I don't see honest doctrinal disagreements as being anti the people who believe them. Else I guess that the RCC is pretty anti-Lutheran ;). We can disagree without sugar coating it without being mean. It's not a personal attack that Awana teaches stuff I disagree with, kwim? Our church programs are open to all - but we teach stuff that RCC, Baptists, etc disagree with. What else would we do, anyway, but teach what we believe?

[Parrothead]

My understanding of the Awana SoF is that the kids/parents don't have to sign it - they can be anything - iirc Awana has an evangelizing focus, and so it would be silly to exclude anyone who doesn't already believe as you do. The SoF is just for the hosting church (and maybe leaders) to sign. I don't really think of it as being anti-Catholic or anti-Lutheran or whatnot - we're all welcome to attend - and learn the error of our ways ;). I guess I don't see honest doctrinal disagreements as being anti the people who believe them. Else I guess that the RCC is pretty anti-Lutheran ;). We can disagree without sugar coating it without being mean. It's not a personal attack that Awana teaches stuff I disagree with, kwim? Our church programs are open to all - but we teach stuff that RCC, Baptists, etc disagree with. What else would we do, anyway, but teach what we believe?

I never thought of AWANA as being an attack on any religion/denomination. But at the same time the message of AWANA may not necessarily be what RC, EO, Lutherans, LDS... parents want their children to hear. In the same manner that any given Protestant parent might not want their child to come to believe the infallibility of the pope.

 

It works both ways. And I don't want AWANA to change to be acceptable to all Christians. It would be nice, but I don't see it happening.

 

The OP asked if AWANA would be appropriate for RC or EO children. My answer was two-fold. Because of doctrine differences and possibly the atmosphere in which a RC or EO child is brought into, AWANA probably isn't for RC or EO kids.

[forty-two]

I never thought of AWANA as being an attack on any religion/denomination. But at the same time the message of AWANA may not necessarily be what RC, EO, Lutherans, LDS... parents want their children to hear. In the same manner that any given Protestant parent might not want their child to come to believe the infallibility of the pope.

 

It works both ways. And I don't want AWANA to change to be acceptable to all Christians. It would be nice, but I don't see it happening.

 

The OP asked if AWANA would be appropriate for RC or EO children. My answer was two-fold. Because of doctrine differences and possibly the atmosphere in which a RC or EO child is brought into, AWANA probably isn't for RC or EO kids.

Thoroughly agree that Awana is not doctrinally appropriate for RCC/EO/Lutheran/etc - I'm Lutheran, and would not do it with my dc for that reason. But, to me at least, saying that a program is anti-Catholic is *different* than saying that a program isn't in line with Catholic beliefs - and people in this thread were referred to Awana as anti-Catholic/anti-JW/etc, and I didn't think that was warranted over doctrinal differences, is all. I think of anti-Catholic as being actively hostile to Catholics, and I don't think teaching something that is against Catholic doctrine to inherently be a hostile activity (though depending on the doctrine in question, it could go there). Same with LDS, JW, EO, Lutheran, etc.

[asta]

I'll PM you.

 

(no - you haven't offended me, and no, I've never met you IRL. I doubt we live in the same place)

Edited January 1, 2011 by asta

[lionfamily1999]

Like forty-two pointed out an SOF generally prohibits Catholics from participating. Things other things like the meanings of the verses memorized could be "wrong" for Catholics and others like Orthodox kids.

 

The atmosphere is a personal thing because of what happened to us a couple years ago. Not all children would tell their new friends they are stupid. And in the same manner I'd have a talk with any Catholic kid in my presence that told someone of another denomination some kind of foolishness.

 

 

Often times Protestant SOFs are either purposefully or accidentally written to effectively exclude Catholics, Orthodox and from what I'm reading in the LDS thread them, and I'd bet the JWs.

 

Other things like a Protestant Bible, the meaning of Bible verses, not to mention the whole saved by grace thing that would lead me to believe AWANA isn't for RE, EO, LDS or JWs in general. Especially if another option were available locally.

 

Wasn't there a Lutheran that said AWANA isn't for them either. That surprised me, but shouldn't have.

 

Yes, exactly. I don't knwo that AWANA is specifically anti-Catholic. I've never heard that. But just simple things like Bible translation and interpretation could be unwittingly anti-Catholic or Orthodox, or LDS or ...

Ah. I'll have to forward some of this to a few people. Thank you :)

My understanding of the Awana SoF is that the kids/parents don't have to sign it - they can be anything - iirc Awana has an evangelizing focus, and so it would be silly to exclude anyone who doesn't already believe as you do. The SoF is just for the hosting church (and maybe leaders) to sign. I don't really think of it as being anti-Catholic or anti-Lutheran or whatnot - we're all welcome to attend - and learn the error of our ways ;). I guess I don't see honest doctrinal disagreements as being anti the people who believe them. Else I guess that the RCC is pretty anti-Lutheran ;). We can disagree without sugar coating it without being mean. It's not a personal attack that Awana teaches stuff I disagree with, kwim? Our church programs are open to all - but we teach stuff that RCC, Baptists, etc disagree with. What else would we do, anyway, but teach what we believe?

I agree with much of what you've said. I have not seen a statement of faith for Awanas at all. Now, there are some things that the leaders/directors/&tc have to agree to, but I have not seen anything that the members have to sign.

[K&Rs Mom]

I wouldn't send my (RCC) kids (for reasons others have already mentioned), but I have a close (RCC) friend who does for now. They've LOVED cubbies, enjoyed sparks, but she's seeing some potential troubles now with her 3rd grader, and expects to have to stop sending them by 5th grade because the teachings are more doctrinally specific by then, instead of the scripture memory & Bible stories from the younger programs. Just one experience, but you can reevaluate it each year and see how it fits with your family's needs.

[lamamaloca]

I don't really think of it as being anti-Catholic or anti-Lutheran or whatnot - we're all welcome to attend - and learn the error of our ways ;). I guess I don't see honest doctrinal disagreements as being anti the people who believe them.

 

I agree with you that simply thinking that someone is wrong, even seriously wrong, does not mean that you are "anti-whatever" or that you are prejudiced or bigoted. But, especially since AWANA is used as an evangelizing tool, there is an ultimate goal there of bring kids into beliefs in keeping with the SoF, making it unacceptable for an EO or RC kid, or with certain strains of Protestant families, as well. Saying, "This isn't appropriate for Catholics" also isn't saying, "this is a horrible, awful, bigoted program." And I think you agree with that. :)

[knit247]

I wouldn't send my (RCC) kids (for reasons others have already mentioned), but I have a close (RCC) friend who does for now. They've LOVED cubbies, enjoyed sparks, but she's seeing some potential troubles now with her 3rd grader, and expects to have to stop sending them by 5th grade because the teachings are more doctrinally specific by then, instead of the scripture memory & Bible stories from the younger programs. Just one experience, but you can reevaluate it each year and see how it fits with your family's needs.

 

I can see how that might affect my DD as she goes further with T&T. I need to start sitting in on her Council Time lessons but am usually helping the Sparks in Game-Time... Interesting thread - ty all!

[iwka]

Awana on Catholic Answers Forum: http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=102258

http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=211589

[vonfirmath]

Just wanted to note that AWANA isn't generic Protestant (if there is such a thing), but a specific type of Protestant, and is equally incompatible with other Protestant denominations. I'm Lutheran, and AWANA just would not work for us either. Denying the Sacraments, for one - that's an equally big deal for us, too - and I know there are others (AWANA is Arminan, I think, which would exclude Calvinists, too).

 

Actually Arminian vs Calvinism is not that big a change most of the time.

 

I lean more Arminian than calvinistic (not really either, if it comes right down to it) but I am perfectly comfortable under the teaching of Calvinist leaders. The differences are in the minors, not the majors.

[Laura in STL]

The hurtful misunderstanding of Catholicism does depend on the church. I found out this week that we have a lot of Catholics attending our church (Baptist). We are, ime, really Christian friendly in general (no denomination bashing) and now knowing how many Catholics go to church with us, I'm guessing we must be very friendly indeed :D

 

I was worried reading your posts that AWANA as a program is anti-Catholic, but I'm starting to think it's more the atmosphere??? I have Catholic friends and our church is going to have its very first AWANA meeting on Wednesday :hurray:. I invited my friends and their children and I'm concerned they're going to see this as an underhanded attack. I would not have invitied them, except that I understood AWANA to be nondenominational (strictly scripture) and our church is friendly....

 

You have me concerned. Should I be concerned?[/QU

 

I don't think if the Catholic families are comfortable attending your Baptist church that they would be offended by you inviting them to one of your activities. As other posters pointed out the AWANA materials have doctrinal differences, but it is the atmosphere they are presented in that could make them anti-Catholic.

 

After reading this thread I realize how blessed our family is to live in a parish with around ten other Catholic homeschooling families. We always have plenty of Catholic friends, which I guess I kind of take for granted. We have never experienced any anti-Catholic remarks from Protestants either. Of course we live in a rather Catholic city(I have actually heard Friday night fish-fry traffic reports on the news during Lent!), so that might make a difference.

 

I do have a suggestion for the OP regarding a Catholic alternative. I don't know how many Catholic families there are at your location, but if you do decide to become Catholic and have several other families interested, there is the Little Flowers program for girls. It contains scripture memorization, virtues, and saint study into a program with patches. You can use the program without patches, too. I realize this would be down the road for you, as you are still in the discernment process. Just thought I'd throw it out there for you to look at. It might be a way to form an alternative group.

 

I agree there is no reason to abandon AWANAS now, since you haven't made a decision yet. I come from a background similar to your husband and decided to enter fully into the Catholic Church as an adult. It has been a wonderful decision! Continue to pray about it, and God will let you know what is right for you. God Bless!