Just started w/ vintage LA book (maxwell etc) and WOW !!

[Ummto4]

REcently, from this board, I found more vintage LA gems. Two which I like the most are the Maxwell LA series and Progressive Composition Seriesby Ida Brautigam.

 

I actually can't believe these are the composition exercises I've been looking for for my son.

 

So I started my 8.5 yo (3rd grade) son and 6.5 yo (2nd grade) girl w/ Maxwell's primary language lesson .

 

Features of Maxwell's primary language lesson:

- very detailed oral exercises for picture studies, followed by the story copywork with a twist. The twist is that, as you do your copywork, you also fill in the blank. This is a very gentle approach in training your children to write 3 short paragraphs and discussing them, but allow a bit of creativity in regards of the word choice (by using fill-in the blank feature).

- grammar approach is mostly usage, both oral and written, but I think is rigorous. I even find it more demanding (in term of usage) than GWG which we currently use. The application of a particular concept in grammar (e.g. combining sentences), is done through either letter or story copywork. So, for instance, you have either a letter or a story that you must copy, which contain sentences you should combine. I think it's a good way to mesh in grammar and composition.

 

After may be twenty-some chapters of Maxwell Primary Language Lesson, just by looking at it, I find that it starts to ramp up in difficulties which is beyond 3rd grade. When I compare this with other Maxwell's book (First English), it seems that actually the primary language lesson is almost similar to First English book which is intended for 3rd-5th grade and is therefore divided into three part (much like Serl's ILL).

 

So after chapter 24 or so, I plan to switch to Progressive Composition 1 by Ida Brautigam and First English by Maxwell to make the lesson more incremental and gradual.

 

First English contains both grammar (some terms are introduced) and composition, whereas Progr Composition only has composition. These two books no longer provide 'copywork with a twist' but start to ask students to compose 2-3 paragraph writing piece of familiar stories w/ or w/o model using directed question. This reminds me a lot of Meaningful Composition which I actually want to buy next year (fortunately, I find these, so I might not have to buy MC).

 

After a couple of those, students are asked to write parallel/imitation composition using directed questions, e.g. after reading about Wintry Day, students should be able to apply the questions used for Wintry Day when composing Sunny Day.

 

So it's very gentle and incremental.

 

At the end of 5th grade, students will be able to write from two-level outlines and will be able to derive an outline from a piece. The type of writing the books teach are: description, narration, exposition and how to.

 

All in all, I can just say wow! What a gem.

Edited December 8, 2010 by mom2moon2

[Down_the_Rabbit_Hole]

Can you provide a link to the Maxwell primary lessons?

[Ummto4]

Maxwell's primary lesson in language and composition

 

[ChrissySC]

This is exactly what we needed!

 

I sat this morning looking at this book, and I am agreeing completely that this is a precious gem.

 

I downloaded. I will be looking for similar items in the educational series.

 

We should get a list together!

 

I use Elson readers with love because of the classical writings and the structure of the stories. We read aloud and silently. I see the development in the speech and reading. I love these books too (also on Google).

 

I am putting these on my nook.

 

My math-oriented dd struggles with sentence development. Her original sentences are poorly constructed. However, she reads well now (thanks to Megawords). R&S is one level behind her grade level, but she does fine learning the grammar style and usage. Writing is another area where I have tried many things. Some of the programs seem remedial for the 4th grade, and this will fit nicely!

 

BTW, she is an ex-ps'er which accounts for the lack of LA skills. How can you create a sentence when you can barely recognize the parts of speech? or can no longer read based on the whole word or decode a word method you were taught? <sigh> I'm done. I am too wordy with only one cup of coffee. This was to be my sleep-in day too! All the kids are up and reading. :(

[Jayne J]

Wow. I tend to be skeptical about many of the older texts (not in their rigor, but in their...worldview) I really like this book! What I have read of it is sweet but not sickly, definately rigorous and relevant. Thanks!

[Amy Jo]

Wow - hadn't seen the Elson readers. They look good (more interesting than McGuffey). I think I'll toss them on my eReader and see if DS8 likes them. Thanks!

[Haiku]

Those are very good books! I used Sheldon's PLL with my dd in second grade and we loved it. Maxwell was my second choice. And I am still dithering about using Progressive Composition. Right now dd is working through Evan-Moor's Paragraph Writing, which she loves. Not sure where we'll go after that. She has outgrown doing nothing but narration and dictation with WWE. We also have Writing Strands and Imitation in Writing. I might do a rotating schedule.

 

Tara

[Whereneverever]

My DD1 is using Maxwell, too, and we're loving it!

[momto2Cs]

Thank you! I downloaded the Maxwell book and printed out a few pages for my ds to try. I love the cursive - he wants to learn to write in it anyhow (can already read it), so this might be a good way. I really like the balance of oral and written work too.

[Ummto4]

Those are very good books! I used Sheldon's PLL with my dd in second grade and we loved it. Maxwell was my second choice. And I am still dithering about using Progressive Composition. Right now dd is working through Evan-Moor's Paragraph Writing, which she loves. Not sure where we'll go after that. She has outgrown doing nothing but narration and dictation with WWE. We also have Writing Strands and Imitation in Writing. I might do a rotating schedule.

 

Tara

 

We're planning to use Progressive Composition once we reach chapter twenty-something of Primary Lesson. Progr Composition 1 by Ida Brautigam gives the much needed bridge before my children can write a composition via outlining.

 

It's also much better in teaching composition than Serl's ILL/PLL because Progr Composition is very step by step - much like the much more expensive Meaningful Composition.

[mama25angels]

Those look so good!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now, I want to quit using FLL and use this. I'm particularly loving the fact that the Progressive Composition book has upper levels, i'm thinking of downloading it for my 9th grader and letting him work through it. Thanks for posting it.

[Medieval Mom]

I like these, too! I have an original hardcover edition of the Maxwell's First Book in English, but I haven't quite decided when we'll use it. :)

[Ummto4]

Those look so good!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now, I want to quit using FLL and use this. I'm particularly loving the fact that the Progressive Composition book has upper levels, i'm thinking of downloading it for my 9th grader and letting him work through it. Thanks for posting it.

 

FYI,

 

Maxwell also has a composition book for high schoolers which is called: Writing in English. Good stuff as well. He uses various models for various types of writing, and after those re-writes, he explains explicitly how to write different types of writing.

His middle school writing is good as well but I can't remember what it's called. May be composition for grammar grade ??

[mama25angels]

FYI,

 

Maxwell also has a composition book for high schoolers which is called: Writing in English. Good stuff as well. He uses various models for various types of writing, and after those re-writes, he explains explicitly how to write different types of writing.

His middle school writing is good as well but I can't remember what it's called. May be composition for grammar grade ??

 

 

Thank you so very, very much!!! I'm off to look it up and download it. I really appreciate it.

[Whereneverever]

Thank you so very, very much!!! I'm off to look it up and download it. I really appreciate it.

http://concordiaclassicalacademy.blogspot.com/2010/09/writing.html

I posted links to them here.

[cherylw]

I love this!

[Another Lynn]

Here's a link to an older thread discussing possible scope and sequence with vintage texts. It's a long thread, but might be useful for those reading this one.

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=157186&highlight=maxwell

[SophiaH]

I like the looks of Maxwell's Primary! Any ideas about how to deal with the cursive copying portions? Has anyone found a vintage handwriting book that teaches that beautiful script to younger children?

[Jilly6]

Just what I was looking for! Thanks!

[mama25angels]

http://concordiaclassicalacademy.blogspot.com/2010/09/writing.html

I posted links to them here.

 

Thank you!!

[sagira]

I just saw this.. it looks great! I'm using Wheeler's Elementary Speller and Serl's PLL now that ds is in 2nd (he's 7), and will continue to use these two until finished, but as far as writing is concerned, all I have as a choice is Sentence Composing for Elementary School (which also looks good, in a completely different way).

 

I also have Voyages in English 3 to use alongside PLL next year, picking relevant activities here and there. Right now I use PLL three times a week, in a slower way depending on ds' writing requirements. We really like it. I've heard about Sheldon's PLL too, which is for older grades, correct? Does this put an emphasis more on writing, or does it stick more to grammar, copywork and usage like Serl's? Can anyone compare them?

 

Depending on the answer, I may be continuing with Serl's ILL in 4th and 5th, or switch to Sheldon's.

 

Hmm.. I'm starting to think Language Arts and Science are my weaknesses when it comes to a tendency to get crazy with curriculum! :D

[Haiku]

I've heard about Sheldon's PLL too, which is for older grades, correct? Does this put an emphasis more on writing, or does it stick more to grammar, copywork and usage like Serl's? Can anyone compare them?

 

 

I used Sheldon's PLL with my dd in second grade. It is definitely a grammar book. There is writing involved, but it is not a composition instruction book. It's much more like WWE in that the child would answer questions orally and then use those answers to write a narration. I usually just had my dd do it orally, since it would have been a lot of writing for a second grader.

 

I think that Sheldon's PLL is excellent for a bright second grader but rigorous enough for a third, fourth, or maybe even fifth grader as well. And there is an Advanced Language Lessons to follow it.

 

I am not using Sheldon's PLL with my current second grader. I think the pace would be too quick for him. I would have looked for an easier vintage beginning grammar book, but a friend let me borrow FLL 1/2. Imo, FLL is Jessie Wise's interpretation of a vintage grammar book. Not so much with FLL 3, which my dd is using, but we really love FLL 3.

 

Tara

[Amy Jo]

I like the looks of Maxwell's Primary! Any ideas about how to deal with the cursive copying portions? Has anyone found a vintage handwriting book that teaches that beautiful script to younger children?

 

I haven't - but I think maybe they just copied from a model. This is the closest I've found: http://www.amblesideonline.org/CM/NewHandwriting.html

[stripe]

I like the looks of Maxwell's Primary! Any ideas about how to deal with the cursive copying portions? Has anyone found a vintage handwriting book that teaches that beautiful script to younger children?

How about

Public school penmanship: a handbook for teachers

 

or

The Payson, Dunton, & Scribner manual of penmanship

 

 

The scholars should now take their pens, and place them correctly in their fingers, holding them in the medium position. Give the order "Thumb," upon which they are to push up with the thumb, and observe the upward movement of the pen; then "Fingers," when they are to push down with the fingers, and observe the downward movement of the pen. Repeat this slowly several times, then more rapidly.

After this has been done ten or twelve times, let them lay down their pens, as their fingers soon get tired, and their minds confused.

 

There appear to be others on archive.org / google books.

[ChrissySC]

The penmanship - I believe would be Spencer Style.

 

The Spencerian System was very popular as a way to streamline handwriting for the purposes of business. Believe it or not, all those years ago, they had to write everything by hand! LOL

[cherylw]

Do any of these vintage books have teacher editions available as well? I like to have a guide.

Edited December 13, 2010 by cherylw

[Ummto4]

Only Serl's PLL + ILL have the teacher's guide published (by Lost books ??). But, Maxwell's books and also Ida Brautigam books provide step by step instruction in grammar and composition. The step-by-step instruction for composition in both Maxwell's and Brautigam's books is almost the same as the instruction in MEaningful Composition (if you're familiar with it).

 

The oral exercises are scripted and there are sometimes 'For teachers' section at the end of the lesson. ON top of that there is also a short general teacher's guide at the end of the book.

 

I think the books are very easy to use and provide more step-by-step incremental instruction for both grammar and composition.

[persephone43]

What age/grade is this appropriate for?

[Medieval Mom]

Maxwell's Primary can be started with a fairly confident second grader, taken slowly. Maxwell's first book is meant to be started in third grade, and be used 3-4-5th. I think there is a fairly generous age and grade range of appropriateness, though. I'd advise looking them over and deciding for yourself. :)

[Poke Salad Annie]

I love the Maxwell books too. I have not used them as much as I had intended, due to having already printed Sheldon's grammar text. Now that I'm getting a Nook for Christmas (from me---to me ;)), I'm going to go download crazy over the next few weeks.

 

I have used some of the Maxwell writing lessons, and I think they are fabulous. I also like the Brautigam books too.

[stripe]

Now that I'm getting a Nook for Christmas (from me---to me ;)), I'm going to go download crazy over the next few weeks.

Ha ha. Enjoy yourself!

[Poke Salad Annie]

Ha ha. Enjoy yourself!

 

Well, and since you know I am about all things frugal, you will be happy to hear that I got it for a song. :D