TOG isn't working for us anymore. What else is there?

[Quiver0f10]

Thank you so much everyone. You have all given me a lot to think on and have encouraged me. :grouphug:

[jewel7123]

Jean, as someone who owns TOG Year 1 and plans on starting it next year with my 1st grader, I'd love to hear the reasons why you've decided to look elsewhere? You said you love it but your kids don't?? I understand that the Rhetoric level is very hard and college level, but I also thought if you did LG, UG and D and never made it to the R level that your kids would still be getting enough "meat" without it being too hard and overwhelming........I've read a lot of threads about TOG and that's the idea I came away with. Since my children are so young I obviously don't have experience with it to know. My main reasons for wanting to use TOG are the 4 year cycle and having all the children studying the same time period but at their own individual level of learning. (Something I don't see in MFW and many others curriculums I've looked at. Other curriculums either the younger children are being drug along, doing work that's way above their heads, or the older children are doing work that's at a level below them and the parent has to "beef up".) I also love the use of real books versus textbooks.

 

Anyway, I guess I'd love it if you would go into a bit more detail about the things you DON'T love about TOG so the rest of us considering it can benefit. Thanks!

Edited December 6, 2010 by jewel7123

[Quiver0f10]

Jean, as someone who owns TOG Year 1 and plans on starting it next year with my 1st grader, I'd love to hear the reasons why you've decided to look elsewhere? You said you love it but your kids don't?? I understand that the Rhetoric level is very hard and college level, but I also thought if you did LG, UG and D and never made it to the R level that your kids would still be getting enough "meat" without it being too hard and overwhelming........I've read a lot of threads about TOG and that's the idea I came away with. Since my children are so young I obviously don't have experience with it to know. My main reasons for wanting to use TOG are the 4 year cycle and having all the children studying the same time period but at their own individual level of learning. (Something I don't see in MFW and many others curriculums I've looked at. Other curriculums either the younger children are being drug along, doing work that's way above their heads, or the older children are doing work that's at a level below them and the parent has to "beef up".) I also love the use of real books versus textbooks.

 

Anyway, I guess I'd love it if you would go into a bit more detail about the things you DON'T love about TOG so the rest of us considering it can benefit. Thanks!

 

 

I sent you a PM.

[razorbackmama]

I'm not Jean, but I stopped using TOG after a couple years. Part of it was that it was just too much. A lot of it was that for as much as the teacher's notes were touted to be all this wonderful stuff, they left me confused and frustrated. The overview pages would say that we were supposed to cover certain people, vocabulary words, etc. in the readings, and then they wouldn't be there. After several weeks of this, I asked about it over on the TOG forums, and I was told to ignore what it said on the overview pages:001_huh: and just go through the readings. This helped, but it frustrated me, since I liked to sort of preview the week with my kids i.e., "This week we're going to learn about xyz."

 

LG had a lot of trouble with this sort of thing. The trouble with UG is that there is basically no support at all. With LG you read the books aloud, so you know what's going on. With D and R the student reads the books, but there are notes to clue you in as a teacher. With UG, the student reads the books independently, but there aren't any notes or ANYTHING to clue you in as a teacher. Either you preread the books, or you're lost.

 

Mapping was an issue. I had to finally purchase one of the R level books so that we could find the answers to the *LG* maps.

 

All in all, I liked the *idea* of TOG, but when it came to actually using it, it frustrated me too much, and that was BEFORE we even got to the D and R levels.

 

If you're simply looking for a curriculum to use with a variety of ages, I recommend something like Biblioplan.

[jewel7123]

 

If you're simply looking for a curriculum to use with a variety of ages, I recommend something like Biblioplan.

 

I'm not interested in Biblioplan because it uses Story of the World as its main spine and for all its extra stuff, thinking questions, etc. I would personally NEVER use SOTW with a 1st grader.

[razorbackmama]

I'm not interested in Biblioplan because it uses Story of the World as its main spine and for all its extra stuff, thinking questions, etc. I would personally NEVER use SOTW with a 1st grader.

They offer MOH as an alternative.

[Holly IN]

Ds is wavering back and forth wanting to dump TOG and back to using tog. I am having a really hard time with LG and UG due to lack of support. It is great for R level because you get tons of support. Because of lack of funds we have to continue to use tog.

 

I have the same frustrations as razorback. Because of money, I can't dump it right now. :glare:

 

Holly

[razorbackmama]

Holly, do you have the DE? (To be honest, that's another reason I dumped TOG when I did...I'm NOT crazy at all about the DE.) If you have a paper copy, it has a high resale value.

[shanvan]

what did you end up using, Jean? We are doing well with TOG currently, but I am beginning to see that it may not be a good fit for DS (in 7th now) for high school. I'm curious to hear about your decision since I may also be facing the same issue within the next year.

 

Shannon

[Omma]

I have decided to try going back to MFW. We were just getting up to the crusades and I purchased RtR. I also have not known whether I should just start up in the middle or go back to the beginning of Rome. One thing I have noticed is that you can go back and do a time period over but with a different emphasis. For example, we never used the book about how we got the Bible, nor did we do any reading from the book of Romans while we were studying Rome. We also never studied any Latin roots with English From the Roots Up. Nor did we emphasize the timeline. Thus, I plan on starting at the beginning and just cruising over any parts that are really redundant for us all, but otherwise backtracking a bit. What I figure is that I will let the kids read the SOTW sections silently this time around, instead of having me read them aloud. I figure that the review really won't hurt them any. Also, the Middle Ages is a time period that I have always skipped over, so I figure if we spend extra time now on this time period, it really won't hurt us any. Another point is that we can do whatever we want, really, as long as we are ready to do Ancients with my oldest when he is in 9th grade.

 

So, perhaps you could still go back to the beginning of Exp. to 1850 and just use it as a review or with a different emphasis, perhaps. You can also throw in some extra geography and cultures studies in order to get you to where you want to be for 9th grade, if that is of concern, too. These are some of the ideas that have helped me, and I can tell you that I am now quite excited as I just got my RtR TM in the mail the other day and it's like Christmas all over again :D!

 

Brenda

[Quiver0f10]

what did you end up using, Jean? We are doing well with TOG currently, but I am beginning to see that it may not be a good fit for DS (in 7th now) for high school. I'm curious to hear about your decision since I may also be facing the same issue within the next year.

 

Shannon

 

 

Actually I haven't decided and we start back Monday :banghead: I am tempted to just forget history for the rest of the year :D

[Rhondabee]

Actually I haven't decided and we start back Monday :banghead: I am tempted to just forget history for the rest of the year :D

 

Glad to know I'm not the only one! :lol:

[mom2paul]

I'm at the same place...my son, who loves History, said he absolutely HATES TOG. :( We are only several weeks into it, but I am seriously considering moving on. I have difficulty searching Teacher's Notes and the SAP's don't always line up with the Teacher's Notes...I find myself going back and forth digging for information. DS is frustrated, I am frustrated. Am I the only one who finds this program disorganized? I know there is a "fog" period that the forums talk about, but I wonder if it will ever lift. :glare:

[ABQmom]

I'm at the same place...my son, who loves History, said he absolutely HATES TOG. :( We are only several weeks into it, but I am seriously considering moving on. I have difficulty searching Teacher's Notes and the SAP's don't always line up with the Teacher's Notes...I find myself going back and forth digging for information. DS is frustrated, I am frustrated. Am I the only one who finds this program disorganized? I know there is a "fog" period that the forums talk about, but I wonder if it will ever lift. :glare:

 

 

Me. I get frustrated with it too for those same reasons. I borrowed the print edition from a friend who purchased TOG new in 2009. I'll be returning it at the end of this year and moving on to something else. Don't know what yet, but I'm following this thread to help me decide.

[siloam]

Actually I haven't decided and we start back Monday :banghead: I am tempted to just forget history for the rest of the year :D

 

(((Hugs)))

 

I have switched, for the time being, to using spines that are not in TOG (because I like them) and then using TOG to supplement them. We just get too bogged down if I try to use TOG to drive the ship.

 

Heather

[razorbackmama]

I'm at the same place...my son, who loves History, said he absolutely HATES TOG. :( We are only several weeks into it, but I am seriously considering moving on. I have difficulty searching Teacher's Notes and the SAP's don't always line up with the Teacher's Notes...I find myself going back and forth digging for information. DS is frustrated, I am frustrated. Am I the only one who finds this program disorganized? I know there is a "fog" period that the forums talk about, but I wonder if it will ever lift. :glare:

 

We used TOG for 2 years, and the fog never lifted, for these exact reasons. I even asked about how the overview pages (can't remember what they are called - the yellow ones) didn't match the teacher's notes OR the readings, and I was told by Dana to ignore what the pages said and to just do the readings.:001_huh: I had a TERRIBLE time finding the mapping information. I was told to just give my kids the answers from the answer keys (doesn't that defeat the purpose?????). Finally I broke down and bought the R level atlas so that we could complete the *LG* level maps.

 

I spent 2 years incredibly frustrated, waiting for the fog to lift. I do not miss TOG one bit. The only reason I stuck with it as long as I did was because I didn't know there were alternatives to multi-level history.

[coffeefreak]

Actually I haven't decided and we start back Monday :banghead: I am tempted to just forget history for the rest of the year :D

 

The years that we had this problem I did one of these choices:

 

1. Did a unit study using Konos. I let her choose which one she wanted to do and it made it a TON of fun.

2. Pulled books from Ambleside, MFW, and Sonlight and just had her read about the period in History we needed to "get through."

3. Bought MFW EX-1850 and jumped in in the middle LOL!

 

But seriously. You could also just get a textbook and get through it. A Good friend of mine was doing TOG with her kids and her son looked at her and said, "Mom, why can't we ever just buy a textbook? I just want to read it, answer the questions and be done." :lol: It killed her, but that's exactly what she did.

 

:grouphug:

Dorinda

[SnMomof7]

Another program to consider is Illuminations. It uses MOH as a spine, schedules lit and supplements, has 3 teaching levels (k-3, 3-8, high school) and includes lit studies for 3+. It isn't as rigorous as TOG and the cycle isn't finished yet, but for those in 1st/2nd years of 4, it is worth checking out!

[JadeOrchidSong]

Another program to consider is Illuminations. It uses MOH as a spine, schedules lit and supplements, has 3 teaching levels (k-3, 3-8, high school) and includes lit studies for 3+. It isn't as rigorous as TOG and the cycle isn't finished yet, but for those in 1st/2nd years of 4, it is worth checking out!

I too am very scared of TOG. I can't imagine reserving all the books in the libraries and they don't come when I need them. In fact, many books can't be found in the libraries. I don't know how I can use TOG with libraries. I can only use it with books already purchased and ready in my house!

Thanks for the Illuminations info. I will check it out. Right now we are just doing SOTW 2 with SL books added in.

[Charmaine]

Just wanted to throw another option out there: Veritas Press online Omnibus classes. To cover a full year of Omnibus online, you'd have to sign up for two classes: Omnibus Primary and Omnibus Secondary.

 

We're thinking of signing up our oldest next year for just one of the courses (probably Primary) and doing the other at home -- in maybe a little more relaxed fashion.

 

We have been using VP online for a Literature class this year, and have been very pleased. Lots of motivation for dd, lots of discussion (2x per week), lots of getting called on to speak. There has been a lot of literary analysis included, at least in this 6th grade course.

 

Also, I have heard that the achievement level of the students in the Omnibus courses is high and really motivates the kids to read and be ready to discuss.

 

We'll probably always do some of Omnibus ourselves. But it makes Omnibus feel more doable to me to know this option is out there if I am overwhelmed, especially down the road as I have 3 kids in different levels of Omnibus at once.

 

Hope this helps!

Charmaine

[BlsdMama]

I too am very scared of TOG. I can't imagine reserving all the books in the libraries and they don't come when I need them. In fact, many books can't be found in the libraries. I don't know how I can use TOG with libraries.

 

I'm actually a TOG lover, just snuck in here so I could peek... It's always good to be aware of any weaknesses, lol. :bigear:

*But* it is the exact reason you listed above that we burnt out on Tapestry. I actually (gulp) sold my TOG once because I was overwhelmed by the muchness and the book reserving. We're back because I missed it. And because I'm buying practically every book I need this year. The library thing REALLY burnt me out. I think that Tapestry would "stick" with people much better if they did what Sonlight did and offered a "boxed" curriculum with add-ins to coincide with the year and level. Too many buy just the curriculum and plan on using the library. Paired with difficulty level, right off the bat, TOG seems overwhelming... There's a learning curve there anyway and adding to it finding the books, trying to get them at the right time, etc.

[mommaduck]

Library books were a big issue with why we finally quit TOG. Either they didn't have the books we needed, the books weren't being published anymore, and I'd have to nearly fight other TOG moms for the books (given that I only had limited access to the library compared to them, I'd be weeks behind our co-op...because most of the other moms either could afford to buy all the books and hunt down the no longer published ones or they had reserved books far in advanced and took their time with them). It was aggravating. MFW sells the books they use. The book basket is extra and not required for using the curric or answering questions.

[Donna A.]

Library books were a big issue with why we finally quit TOG. Either they didn't have the books we needed, the books weren't being published anymore, and I'd have to nearly fight other TOG moms for the books (given that I only had limited access to the library compared to them, I'd be weeks behind our co-op...because most of the other moms either could afford to buy all the books and hunt down the no longer published ones or they had reserved books far in advanced and took their time with them). It was aggravating. MFW sells the books they use. The book basket is extra and not required for using the curric or answering questions.

 

That sounds familiar. I've not used TOG myself, but both my current and former pastor's wives use TOG with the library. I'm not sure about the one, but I know the other one is always asking ME for book recommendations for her voracious reader, and I use MFW. :tongue_smilie: I think -- I should say, the impression I walk away with from these two ladies -- is that MFW includes a lot more variety and flexibility, both in the packages they sell (scheduled) and in Book Basket (not scheduled). That variety and flexibility allows for wider choices at the library, as well as less *required* reading so that if you can't find certain titles OR have a student who doesn't care as much about reading, you're not really losing the "program".

[AngelBee]

Peeking in as a mama who has considered TOG, but is scared. :)

[joyfulmomSDG]

TOG is scary. Not only for the "fog" but the cost involved with the fog-risk. After using it for one unit, this is also where my dd is:

 

But seriously. You could also just get a textbook and get through it. A Good friend of mine was doing TOG with her kids and her son looked at her and said, "Mom, why can't we ever just buy a textbook? I just want to read it, answer the questions and be done." :lol: It killed her, but that's exactly what she did.

 

Dorinda

 

It's gonna kill me too, but I think we're gonna have to go the textbook route for most of next year. My daughter's pref!

 

I think that if she were my only child to hs I would have a much better time with TOG. She just wasn't retaining any of the history stuff & said it was so dull. After the Christmas break, I decided to use the copy of MOH 3 we have with some help from their High School yahoo group, for history. I scrapped the Church History & Philosophy and brought on two new "electives" more to her liking and practicality. And we are still using TOG for the Lit portion of our English credit, but it is the waaaayyy reduced load indicated on the Loom.

 

That's just us. I know a lot of people LOVE it.

I just don't have the time to do my part of the prep + my daughter isn't highly driven in the academic arena = bad fit for us.

[jewel7123]

Have you made any decisions regarding history Jean? Just curious as to what you'll be doing now that you've dropped TOG.

[Quiver0f10]

Have you made any decisions regarding history Jean? Just curious as to what you'll be doing now that you've dropped TOG.

 

 

I am embaressed to admit this but since I couldn't decide on what else to use and we were half way through our year, I decided to finish the year with TOG with lots of tweaking.

 

No idea what we will use next year.

[AngelBee]

I am embaressed to admit this but since I couldn't decide on what else to use and we were half way through our year, I decided to finish the year with TOG with lots of tweaking.

 

No idea what we will use next year.

:grouphug: That makes sense. No shame in using what you have til you figure it out. :)