And another "wwyd" parenting question... grades!

[BMW]

I currently have 4 boys in ps.

 

One of them diligently studies and does homework. He loves the challenge of getting all A's, even though it is not easy for him. He really, really works hard. Day after day he sits at the table, working on school work, project, asking for my help. I am here to help ALL of them.. but he is the one who works. He got 4 A's and 4 B's on his report card.

 

I have two boys who do not like to do homework. The usually lie about homework. I have found ways to track their homework anyway, but I refuse to do battle over this because they are 11 and 13. I'm not going to babysit them. I tell them to get it out, I am right here to help them, if they don't... it's their problem. We've talked and talked about it. They want to live a life of fun. They don't want to work. They don't want to do what they are told. I already limit screen time and game time. I have them get out their work daily. I have them tell me about their classes. I check their planners. I wont check their teacher websites every day. If they tell me they did it and it is at school, fine, I am not going to stop and email every day or check up. They are too old for that.

 

One has 3 D's and a few C's and couple of B's. He is smart. He is capable. He is stubborn.

 

The other has 2 D's, and c's and b's, too.

 

I think that the boys should lose all priviledges and activities for 1 week per D.

 

Dh has no idea what to do for consequences. I told him that if the boys miss out on some fun activities and are not allowed to go out (on the boat or to grandparents house or to a special steam powered engine show next week...), that it would really hurt them... get their attention... they would see that it will cost them to not do their school work.

 

The challenge is... dh is soft. He will see them "hurt" and then give in. Or he will keep taking them to grandparent's while he goes out and does something (if I am working, for ex.) and then they get taken out to dinner or spoiled by the grandparents... not too much of a consequence.

 

Any ideas?

 

It also seems to me that the boy who does all the school work and cares (once again, it doesn't come easy to him, he works hard!) should be rewarded because he does work so hard while the others goof off and don't... so he should be the one to go out for some fun activity... But, then, that sets up the brothers to get jealous...

[Chris in VA]

Gently, I would say they aren't too old yet to be given more accountability in their homework.

11 is pretty young, imo, to have the entire responsibility for homework in your lap. 13 is borderline.

 

Off the top of my head, a couple of suggestions--

 

Could you have them bring home their homework, even if it's completed at school, so you can look it over?

 

Could you set up a time when EVERYONE does homework--and if they don't have any, they still have to study their notes or reread something in their text, or something like that? Maybe a shorter time if they don't have homework, but still 30 minutes of academic review--I like to give my kids an hour after school to get a snack, hang out, tell me about the day, call a friend, go outside, whatever--then at 4:30, homework until dinner, completed after.

 

I think you are right to not be soft--but I do think sometimes help with a system is useful and needed at that age. I found my boys to be unorganized and then overwhelmed. If I got their notebooks straightened out with them (they had a tendency to jam papers in all together, lose stuff, etc.), and helped them develop some organizational procedures, it kept missed deadlines and missed homework/worksheets/papers to a minimum.

 

Gradually giving over responsibility is a key--but maybe not quite yet.

 

Oh, and jealousy? I'd say too bad with that one. They may feel jealous, but it is a situation they can control, so, as long as they don't equate your love with their performance/behavior, let them feel anything they want to. Might be motivating, and you can point out that they have the power to change the result.

YMMV!:D

Edited November 6, 2010 by Chris in VA

[Smithie]

"I think that the boys should lose all priviledges and activities for 1 week per D."

 

I think it's more feasible to have them lose a single, very valued privilege until the next marking period.

 

You son who is working hard should NOT get a reward, because he is NOT doing anything that deserves one! He is simply meeting the standard of behavior in your household. The other two are not meeting that standard, and it's your job as parents to crack down in a serious, meaningful way until the standard is met.

 

I agree with a PP that at-the-table time for everyone will be key to success. Getting your husband on board is also key. Let him choose whether he wants to be preparing/cleaning up dinner, or sitting at the table supervising homework. Homework should not be considered "done" until the assignment has been presented to you or dh and literally initialed (this avoids the "I left it at school" lie). And obviously, people with undone homework aren't watching TV, hanging outside with friends, using the computer, etc.

 

For the time being, you are stuck checking those teacher websites. I'm sorry, I know it's a pain, but your sons need that from you now. Make up a list of assignments, and every night you or dh are at the table with that list, waiting patiently to be presented with completed work to review and initial.

 

Unless there is another serious issue going on (terrible sickness, pending foreclosure), these Ds are your family's biggest problem right now and EVERYBODY needs to put this front and center and get it fixed. If your sons start getting that vibe from you and DH, then their own attitudes will shift. It will take time. You must stand firm. But they are young enough yet to change their mindset.

 

To give you an idea of where this is coming from: My parents wouldn't or couldn't take a stand on the schoolwork issue. I was self-motivated and have a graduate degree and a great life. My brother slacked and lied, and he has spent the past year manning a machine gun on the top of a semi truck, shooting at scavenging Bedouins in Iraq. When he gets back, I hope he'll be ready to do his freaking homework. He says he will. But it never had to get this far and IMO, if my folks had drawn the line when he was 13 he would not have wound up in the Army instead of in college.

[FriedClams]

As a kid if I brought home a D in a class due to laziness or inattention, I wouldn't have seen fun for at least half of next semester. No sports. No friends during the week. No tv. It's not that love equaled performance, its just that we were expected to do what we were capable of doing. If a D was all you could do - thats one thing - but you say they can do better. For me, a week per D is nothing. :D you are a nice mom!!

 

But, I think the bigger issue is you and your DH being on the same page. Without that nothing will probably work.

[Danestress]

with grandparents. Kids need grandparents who love them. I think sometimes you have to set boundaries with grandparents who are undermining your parenting, and maybe there is some of that going on. But even a child who was in the dog house for academic laziness would be allowed to hang out with grandparents, watch their tv and eat the grandparent junk. I wouldn't allow that every day, but I would allow it a couple of times a month at the very least. And honestly, I would restrict fun time with other kids, hanging out time, computer and phone access etc. But I would not leave them out of fun family activities. Building family bonds is the single most important thing you can be doing with these boys. If you want to take the family out to a movie, everyone goes. Period. And laughs about the movie afterwards, and reaffirms that you are a team, that you love your team members, and that you want GOOD things for them.

 

I personally would just use the teacher's homework assigment thing with them. They are NOT too old to need that direction. I think it's fine for them to know that you will sit down with each of them, look at what is expected by the teacher, and not release them to their fun activities until it is done.

 

I really struggled with my oldest on these issues. He was the kind of kid who would argue that "C" is "average" and that average is just fine - that most people are average. Some days, I felt like, "Hey, if you want to work fast food for the rest of your life, be my guest" (and honestly, because there is nothing wrong with that as long as you are willing to live within your modest means). Some days, it just wasn't worth the fight. It was so exhausting, and I felt like leaving him to make whatever mistakes he was going to.

 

Other days I felt like, "I am the parent. You are immature. It's my job to push some of these issues in your best interests. If you want to be mad at me about it, that's okay. I can take it. But your job is to get good grades, and I am not going to let you off the hook."

 

Looking back, I would err on the side of saying, "Yeah, I am going to crack the academic whip." That doesn't mean demand As. But I am glad for not letting him make some of the mistakes he would have made if I had let him do it more easily. I would welcome an opportunity to hear that he's not doing homework. Liars get checked up on .

[Laurie4b]

I would set a grade that is acceptable to you in accordance with their ability and your values. If they score below that, they lose privileges until the grade is brought back up to what you expect. That is exactly what happens to student athletes, they just.don't. play. until their grades are in an acceptable range. Your ds's can use their new-found time to do homework. This is logical consequences--it is directly related to their performance in a way that loss of a week's worth of privileges is not. You do not have to take away every single privilege. For instance, if they are Scouts, and you think that is good for them in the long run, allow them to stay in Scouts. But I sure would take away video games, TV, and any outside activity that in your estimation is more for their enjoyment than anything else. Don't take all the joy out of their lives. Allow stuff at grandma's, etc. Allow them to earn back small amounts of privileges as they improve, but keep some things gone until they hit the goal.

 

I understand your reluctance to check the teacher's websites, etc. They have to be the ones who are responsible and you don't want to put yourself into the position of Chief Nag and make it about obeying you. That creates poor dynamics. They need to be responsible for themselves. If they have any struggles with keeping things organized, etc. (especially if they are ADD or something), then sure, set up a system. But even kids with ADD eventually go off on their own and have to manage. One of my friends who quit homeschooling after homeschooling 2 all the way through high school now has kids in elementary-high school. She volunteers in the classroom in the elem. school. She has remarked to me how she can't believe how independent the kids are compared to what she had expected when homeschooling.

 

Require your sons to write down their homework assignments and have the teacher initial it each day. If they do this, they get a small chunk of privileges back (eg 1/2 hour of video games.) That gives you a ready-made list of homework assignments that you can flip through.

 

I would also think about setting a certain amount of time to be dedicated to school work--like 1 1/2 hours per evening. If they say they don't have any, they do academic enrichment work during that time. Use it for "afterschooling." Or use it for physical labor. "People that don't get good grades don't get into college. You need to practice the skills you might need for alternative jobs." That way, saying, "I don't have any homework" doesn't equal a free block of time.

 

The extra time that you use to monitor them can be required to be paid back in extra chores for you.

 

Also, you could lower their privileges to those they had at a younger age: Since you require mommy to hold your hand during school work, I'd say you're functioning at about the level of a 9 year old. Nine year olds go to bed at ____. They cannot ride their bikes alone to _____. They cannot watch PG movies . (Or whatever your standards were at the younger age.)

 

You can ask the teachers for a periodic report before grades come out. This gives your sons something to shoot for and a light at the end of the tunnel.

 

If you don't hunker down now, this is likely to keep going into high school when it really counts. I would talk with your dh about whether it's nicer to set them up for a lifetime of lower paying jobs, fewer choices, etc. or to allow them to do their video games, etc. now. They will thank him later if he doesn't allow them to manipulate him now. This is something I would really make a stand with with my dh, because if he doesn't step up, it will all be on your shoulders and it is a very bad dynamic for the mom of teenage sons to be the main disciplinarian. Your relationship with them is on the line if dh chooses to bow out. I'd be very, very clear about the impact on me and how that will affect your relationship with your dh. (I'm not saying to be manipulative, but it is forseeable that you will become resentful and lose respect for him if he doesn't step up. I wouldn't use words that harsh directly, more like describe what it will be like for you. Let him "get it." )

Edited November 6, 2010 by Laurie4b

[Mejane]

[quote name=Smithie;2160717

 

I think it's more feasible to have them lose a single' date=' very valued privilege until the next marking period.

 

 

:iagree: That time can be spent doing homework and bringing up the grades.

 

My cousin allowed her son to continue to play basketball because it was his only extra-curricular activity and "he loves it." He had no incentive to bring up his grades and he didn't - he failed.

[Melinda in VT]

I would set a grade that is acceptable to you in accordance with their ability and your values. If they score below that, they lose privileges until the grade is brought back up to what you expect. That is exactly what happens to student athletes, they just.don't. play. until their grades are in an acceptable range. Your ds's can use their new-found time to do homework. This is logical consequences--it is directly related to their performance in a way that loss of a week's worth of privileges is not. You do not have to take away every single privilege. For instance, if they are Scouts, and you think that is good for them in the long run, allow them to stay in Scouts. But I sure would take away video games, TV, and any outside activity that in your estimation is more for their enjoyment than anything else. Don't take all the joy out of their lives. Allow stuff at grandma's, etc. Allow them to earn back small amounts of privileges as they improve, but keep some things gone until they hit the goal.

 

:iagree:

 

I'm going out on a limb here, but I'm guessing that the boys who have the poor homework habits are your step-sons? If that's true, I think it is crucial that you and DH are on the same page when it comes to consequences.

 

Would he be willing to go to counseling with you? I would try very hard to persuade him to go. Based on your posts here, it sounds like the two of you have some fundamental differences in how you approach parenting. Finding a way to resolve those and get on the same parenting page should make everyone's life easier and more pleasant.

 

:grouphug:

[fhjmom]

I haven't read the other responses, but when DD was in middle school and having trouble getting her work done, this was our approach. She had to have her planner intialed by every teacher every day showing that she had:

1. written down her assignments and homework correctly, including any upcoming major assignments, projects or tests

2. written down any grades that had been returned for major assignments, like tests or projects

3. had turned in her assignments for that day

 

At the end of the week, if she had all her teachers' initials, all her assignments turned in (no 0's) and no failing grades on tests or projects, then she could do something that weekend. If any of the above were not done, then she lost privileges for the weekend (she really didn't do much during the week).

 

We emailed all of her teachers that we expected this to be DD's responsibility to have her planner filled out correctly and it was up to her to take it to her teachers; all we were asking of them is that they initial that she was providing us accurate information. I would check her planner periodically during the week, but always on Friday.

 

Oh, and it doesn't work if both parents aren't on board. The first thing is to find a plan that you and DH can live with and make sure you both follow through. Otherwise anything you will try to do is worthless if he will not support the consequences.

[Pretty in Pink]

I didn't read any of the replies in this thread. When I was a kid, if I brought home anything less than a 'B' I was grounded until the mid-point of the next grading period when progress reports were issued.

[Renee in NC]

With my 7th grader (who is currently in virtual school, but who will be going to regular school next year), we require that he gets all his work done for the week with at least a C average. If he either doesn't get it all done or has an average lower than a C, he is grounded until the next Friday. If he has it all done and his grades are above a C, then he is ungrounded. Grounded means no playing outside (only working), no Wii, no computer games, etc.

 

We will continue this when he goes to school.

 

As far as homework and being accountable, my 3rd grader with LDs is responsible for his homework, not me. He has to make sure he has the materials he needs, does the work, and turns it in. I do read things to him if needed (he can't read), but the reposponsibility is entirely his.

 

If he misses homework, his teacher makes him do it at recess. It has only happened once. If he, with all his LDs and other issues (including ADD) can be responsible for his own homework, so can your boys.:D

 

I suggest you read John Rosemond's "Ending the Homework Hassle." That is where our basic plan came from.

Edited November 6, 2010 by Renee in FL

[Murphy101]

As a kid if I brought home a D in a class due to laziness or inattention, I wouldn't have seen fun for at least half of next semester. No sports. No friends during the week. No tv. It's not that love equaled performance, its just that we were expected to do what we were capable of doing.

 

I think the bigger issue is you and your DH being on the same page. Without that nothing will probably work.

 

I haven't read the other responses, but when DD was in middle school and having trouble getting her work done, this was our approach. She had to have her planner intialed by every teacher every day showing that she had:

1. written down her assignments and homework correctly, including any upcoming major assignments, projects or tests

2. written down any grades that had been returned for major assignments, like

tests or projects

3. had turned in her assignments for that day

 

At the end of the week, if she had all her teachers' initials, all her assignments turned in (no 0's) and no failing grades on tests or projects, then she could do

something that weekend. If any of the above were not done, then she lost privileges for the weekend (she really didn't do much during the week).

 

We emailed all of her teachers that we expected this to be DD's responsibility to have her planner filled out correctly and it was up to her to take it to her teachers; all we were asking of them is that they initial that she was providing us accurate information. I would check her planner periodically during the

week, but always on Friday.

 

Oh, and it doesn't work if both parents aren't on board. The first thing is to find a plan that you and DH can live with and make sure you both follow through. Otherwise anything you will try to do is worthless if he will not support the consequences.

 

 

I agree with these two.

 

Yeah. Without dh on board, especially if these are stepchildren, I can't imagine you have a chance in hades of correcting the problem.

 

Your dh and grandparents are NOT being soft.

 

There's nothing loving and soft about letting your children fail, setting a foundation for a life of low expectations and suffering the consequences, and not having the cajones to do whatever you can to correct the problem and give them a better future while you can. It's hard. It stinks. It's parenting.

 

I just have never understood parents saying they just can't bring themselves to do what they KNOW is best for their kid because it's just too hard on their heart or too much of an inconvenience.:confused: I'd think seeing my kids suffer the consequences of failing due to my lack of correction would break my heart far more.:confused:

 

As for jealousy. Too bad. You think they are jealous now? Then they should work harder. Because until they do, he will always have more and be further ahead.

 

And jealousy goes the other way too. It's dang hard to work your bum off everyday and see you aren't living or doing any better for it than the people who don't do squat. Eventually, a person starts to ask themselves why they are wasting so much more energy and time for no more return. And a hefty portion of them decide to stop doing so.

 

Geez. I sound mad. I'm not in the least. Just unbelievably frustrated with some relatives of my own right now that share your dh and grandparents POV. Thank God my dh agrees with me or this would be really unpleasant.

[linders]

Okay, just kidding, but he needs to understand he is not doing them a favor.

 

Together, you and DH decide what is an acceptable average for grades. Any quarter that grades drop below that, all screen time (games, tv) is suspended. Period. It will create a very, very rough quarter that first time, but they need to see you are serious. If you do not help them prioritize now, how will they learn to do it later in school and life?

[Mom0012]

I currently have 4 boys in ps.

 

One of them diligently studies and does homework. He loves the challenge of getting all A's, even though it is not easy for him. He really, really works hard. Day after day he sits at the table, working on school work, project, asking for my help. I am here to help ALL of them.. but he is the one who works. He got 4 A's and 4 B's on his report card.

 

I have two boys who do not like to do homework. The usually lie about homework. I have found ways to track their homework anyway, but I refuse to do battle over this because they are 11 and 13. I'm not going to babysit them. I tell them to get it out, I am right here to help them, if they don't... it's their problem. We've talked and talked about it. They want to live a life of fun. They don't want to work. They don't want to do what they are told. I already limit screen time and game time. I have them get out their work daily. I have them tell me about their classes. I check their planners. I wont check their teacher websites every day. If they tell me they did it and it is at school, fine, I am not going to stop and email every day or check up. They are too old for that.

 

One has 3 D's and a few C's and couple of B's. He is smart. He is capable. He is stubborn.

 

The other has 2 D's, and c's and b's, too.

 

I think that the boys should lose all priviledges and activities for 1 week per D.

 

Dh has no idea what to do for consequences. I told him that if the boys miss out on some fun activities and are not allowed to go out (on the boat or to grandparents house or to a special steam powered engine show next week...), that it would really hurt them... get their attention... they would see that it will cost them to not do their school work.

 

The challenge is... dh is soft. He will see them "hurt" and then give in. Or he will keep taking them to grandparent's while he goes out and does something (if I am working, for ex.) and then they get taken out to dinner or spoiled by the grandparents... not too much of a consequence.

 

Any ideas?

 

It also seems to me that the boy who does all the school work and cares (once again, it doesn't come easy to him, he works hard!) should be rewarded because he does work so hard while the others goof off and don't... so he should be the one to go out for some fun activity... But, then, that sets up the brothers to get jealous...

 

I don't know what to suggest for the boys that refuse to work, but I think the boy that is working so hard is being rewarded. For him, it is rewarding to work hard and earn the grade. I don't think I'd try to reward him outside of that, except maybe to say that I thought he was doing a great job and that I was proud of him.

 

Lisa

[justasque]

I would discuss it with the boys' teachers. Exactly what is the problem - do they write down the homework but not do it? Do they not write it down? Do they forget the books? If they tell you they have no homework when they do, is there a way you can double-check that? Do they have regular assignments - e.g. a vocab test every Thursday - so that you can create a schedule with them? Do they have problems doing it, or just not feel like it? Do you have a planner system in which you can communicate with the teacher daily? Are the kids getting C's and D's because they don't do the work, or because they lose it or turn it in late? Or do they really not get the concepts being taught? Any chance of learning disabilities, or inappropriate class placement? Are they paying attention in class, and participating?

 

Middle school is the stage where kids become responsible for their own work. It comes easier to some than to others. Middle school teachers often crack down on kids early in the year - better to let them get a C or D and then work to bring it up than to micro-manage them to an A, is the thinking. Again, talk to the teachers so that your kids are getting the same message at home and at school.

 

Do you have "homework time" daily? Having a routine really helps.

 

If you can pinpoint where the problem lies, you'll be more likely to find a solution that works.

[BMW]

Thanks for the replies.

 

All 3 boys mentioned have school planners.

 

They each write down their homework in it every week.

 

I ask all 3 every day the same questions. I am here for all 3 of them every day.

 

If they lie about homework, then they get the bad grade. If they skip a project that they don't want to do... they get the bad grade.

 

I have met with one of the boys teachers. They all said that I should just follow along with the planner. They said that this son is entirely capable, just doesn't want to.

 

So, I feel like, fine... you don't want to do the work... I don't want to take you for the special outting...

 

I still am not sure what we will do for a consequence.

 

I have decided that I will check their planner every day when I ask them about homework. I am willing to check the teacher's websites once a week to see if the planner is correct. I am willing to email their teachers to check on their progress.

 

Yes, the two who are failing are my stepsons. I care deeply for them. They are my boys. One of them is in counseling currently. The other is VERY determined to bring his grades up. He seems to care right now. Dh and I are currently in counseling and we will be going over this. But, our appointment is on Thurs. So, I might just tell the boys that we are undecided about the consequence, but we will let them know when we talk it through.

 

Since the outting we have planned would be very special to them, I am thinking more of simply requiring them to spend 1-2 hours each school day studying. If they have "no homework" then they can read or write. But, we'll see.

 

Thanks.

 

And DH has made a lot of progress on what I've shared. We have come a ways. Just have a ways to go...

[Melinda in VT]

Yes, the two who are failing are my stepsons. I care deeply for them. They are my boys. One of them is in counseling currently. The other is VERY determined to bring his grades up. He seems to care right now. Dh and I are currently in counseling and we will be going over this. But, our appointment is on Thurs. So, I might just tell the boys that we are undecided about the consequence, but we will let them know when we talk it through.

 

I think with teenagers it is definitely better to tell them that you and DH are still deciding on the consequence than to announce a consequence that DH isn't behind 100%. I think talking about it during your counseling appointment is great.

 

And DH has made a lot of progress on what I've shared. We have come a ways. Just have a ways to go...

 

:) I'm so happy to hear that you are already in counseling and that progress is being made. Your DH and his bio kids have had a rough time of it (as have you and yours) and it's completely understandable that working through all the issues would take time. :grouphug:

[lulubelle]

I know I read in some parenting book that you should never have a consequence that hurts family time together (this should not include t.v. and game time). It seems to me the consequences should be related to his personal time - t.v., game time, and also time with their friends. And, one week of consequence is not enough. Their Dad should be able to take them to the grandparents for a short time.

 

Maybe even losing all t.v., game time and time with friends till the next marking period shows some improvements. You just need to show them consistency, which will be the hardest part.

[justasque]

I am thinking more of simply requiring them to spend 1-2 hours each school day studying. If they have "no homework" then they can read or write.

This makes a lot of sense. If the problem is that they aren't doing homework, then the consequence is to beef up the homework time. I do agree that you should check the planner daily. Some kids need mom's help/oversight at older ages than others. Resist the urge to compare, and help each kid in the way they need.