Twaddle help

[guateangel]

My dd is enjoying Amelia Bedelia and the Little Pony readers, are these considered twaddle?

 

Is there a list of non-twaddle books for the grammar stage some where?

 

Educate me, please. :)

[curlygirlzx2]

I was going to post the same thing. :) I would love some suggestions for twaddle free reading for a 1st grader who is reading at a 1st grade level.

[MrsMe]

I don't know what the second book is, but I don't think Amelia Bedelia is twaddle. I find it's an excellent book on homonyms!

 

I find any book on tv characters totally twaddle. We had a lot of history readers. You can find really good book lists on WP's site, Sonlight, Veritas Press and HOD.

Edited October 16, 2010 by alilac

[Jamee]

I think at that stage--early reading--anything is better than nothing and if they're reading it independently all the better. Yes, I suppose that some books are better than others, but to me if they're reading, great! My kids have really enjoyed all the leveled readers that you can get through Scholastic or find in the book stores, particularly those that are science or history based. DS is just learning to read and has been choosing books on both Greek and Egyptian mythology, next he wants to try the one on Pompeii. But he also enjoys the Scooby Doo phonics readers too, and I don't see anything wrong with that. (I always liked the Amelia Bedilia books when I as that age. Same with the Miss Nelson books.:D)

[Kates]

Basically, things without plot or any redeeming factor other than the fact that a child will read them mindlessly are considered twaddle ;)

 

Amelia Bedelia is something a child with think about, laugh with, and go back to; no, they're not conquering the great ideas of the world, but at that age, they're not wired to. They're learning to think outside themselves. And at K-2nd, that's a big deal.

 

I would say that something like Captain Underpants would be considered twaddle...Dick and Jane would be up there, too. (Yep, I know Dick and Jane books are considered "classic children's books" by some, but all they're meant to do is expose children to sight words - not to get them to actually think about what they're reading, or even care.)

 

JMHO :)

[mammaofbean]

some we have that dd read in addition to tons of twaddle:

 

owl at home

oliver pig

frog and toad

oscar otter

little bear

a bargain for frances

wagon wheels

mouse soup

poppleton

grasshopper on the road

sam the minuteman

the big balloon race

the drinking gourd

[bbrandonsmom]

While I agree with keeping reading Good books that capture a child's interest, there is one thing to ask yourself-do you read just for fun books? As adults, I'm sure not everything we read is mind engaging. I think if you can find a balance between the two, it would be fine.

[twoxcell]

Here is a link to the books my ds is reading http://bobandabbies.blogspot.com/p/busters-second-grade-reading-list.html

Might give you some ideas. So far all of these that he has read have been really good. I also really like Frog and Toad, owl at home, mouse soup, Little Bear, Christian Liberty Nature readers, and of course Amelia Bedilia. I consider childrens books about movies/tv characters, and those full of boring sight words(like Dick and Jane. My ds would just glaze over when I tried Dick and Jane on him.) twaddle.

[Kates]

While I agree with keeping reading Good books that capture a child's interest, there is one thing to ask yourself-do you read just for fun books? As adults, I'm sure not everything we read is mind engaging. I think if you can find a balance between the two, it would be fine.

 

I definitely agree with "just for fun" books...not everything needs to be a Great Books classic. However, there are so many books out there that are just...mindless. As in, no plot, no characterization, nothing to actually make you think at all. IMO, that's twaddle.

[mom31257]

Ds has just gone crazy over the Magic Treehouse series. He can't wait to get to the library and find more. He also can't wait to take the quizzes on the Book Adventure site. He's also reading several American history themed books this year as well.

 

I think we should expose them to classic books, but I do believe it is more important at this age to get them to love reading.

[nmoira]

 

I definitely agree with "just for fun" books...not everything needs to be a Great Books classic. However, there are so many books out there that are just...mindless. As in, no plot, no characterization, nothing to actually make you think at all. IMO, that's twaddle.

But playing with language -- fun and puns -- is not necessarily mindless. I'd rather have my kids groaning and giggling while reading Captain Underpants than reading insipid fairy books exhorting us all to just co-operate and get along. I also think that books written specifically to teach an "important lesson" are worse than those with a token moral message tacked on at the end... and that Captain Underpants (and later the likes of How to Train Your Dragon) is far superior to either because there's an authentic sense of playfulness there. True, the humour in CU isn't sophisticated, but neither is its intended audience... but it's important to remember that playing with language (or at the very least enjoying hearing someone else play with it) is an essential step in the process of learning to love language.

[stripe]

And Charlotte Mason (who used the word "twaddle" once or twice in her day) loathed insipid, moralizing stuff.

[Karen M]

If the child is reading and enjoying it-go with it. SL is great list for book titles, but reading and enjoying it is the key. I am with the Captain Underpants comments, but even some silliness at this age doesn't hurt.

[Kates]

I never said I'm not ok with silliness, nor did I encourage the insipid stuff. What I was trying to do was make a comparison between what CM considered twaddle and what she didn't. That was, after all, the OP's question - what is considered twaddle?

 

We read silly stuff. We watch silly movies. Last night was "How to Train Your Dragon" night. My child doesn't live on a solid menu of "deep thoughts" literature. He reads it, and we discuss it, but that isn't all he has.

 

But would you assign CU for solid school reading? Or use it for analysis? Probably not :) I'm not saying that you should never allow your child to pick up something silly...I was just pointing out the difference to someone who asked the question. That's all. :001_smile:

[nmoira]

I never said I'm not ok with silliness, nor did I encourage the insipid stuff. What I was trying to do was make a comparison between what CM considered twaddle and what she didn't. That was, after all, the OP's question - what is considered twaddle?

But no one can ever seem to agree what twaddle is, even around here. I draw the line at contrivance or marketing. Others consider MTH twaddle because of the sentence fragments. You made a case for mindlessness.

 

But would you assign CU for solid school reading? Or use it for analysis? Probably not :)

This is a theoretical question for me, as DD the Younger is not quite ready for CU and DD the Elder zoomed past it. I wouldn't assign it for literary analysis :tongue_smilie: but for reading practice with an emerging reader... if the interest were there, I wouldn't have a problem with it.

 

As much as I've kept what I consider to be twaddle out of the house, I think that with developing decoding skills, the literary value of a book is of far less importance than the practice it provides. Any book that engages, and keeps the new reader reading (bonus points for a somewhat varied vocabulary) is fine. I'm far more particular about what I read aloud to young children; it's here they're being immersed in delicious words and intricately constructed worlds, wrapped up in ideas and ideals big and small. Jack and Annie simply serve a different purpose.

[Lori D.]

Those early reader books like Amelia Bedelia are a wonderful way to expose children to word play, humor, basic story structure, the "twist" of the unexpected, etc. Understanding puns requires a pretty sophisticated level of reading, comprehension, and thinking! Below are some more "non-twaddle" titles for you. May you and your family continue to enjoy your reading journey! Warmest regards, Lori D.

 

 

Early Readers

- Little Bear (Minarik)

- Frog and Toad series (Lobel)

- Mouse Tales (Lobel)

- Owl At Home (Lobel)

- Commander Toad series (Yolan)

- Fox series (Marshall)

- Three by the Sea (Marshall)

- Four by the Shore (Marshall)

- The Adventures of Snail at School (Sadler)

- Wizard and Wart series (Smith)

- Captain and Matey series (Laurence

- Aunt Eater series (Cushman)

- Olivia Sharp series (Sharmat) -- girl detective

- ".... Riddles" series (Hall and Eisenberg) -- Puppy, Ribbit,

- The Dragon's Scales (Albee)

- The Lion and the Mouse (Herman)

- The Bravest Cat: The True Story of Scarlett (Driscoll)

- Flying Horse: The Story of Pegasus (Mason)

- Snake Hair: The Story of Medusa (Spinner)

- The Golly Sisters Go West (Byars)

- The Golly Sisters Ride Again (Byars)

 

 

Slightly Longer "Stepped" Readers

- Sword in the Stone (MacCarone)

- Knights (Daly-Weir)

- Gargoyles (Dussling)

- The Big Balloon Race" (Coerr)

- Sacajawea (Milton)

- Clara and the Bookwagon (Levinson)

- Tut's Mummy: Lost and Found (Donnelly)

- Fly on the Ceiling (Glass)

- Ben Franklin and the Magic Squares (Murphy/Walz)

- Pompeii... Buried Alive! (Davis))

- The Titanic: Lost and Found (Donnelly)

- Wagon Wheels ( Brenner)

- Dinosaur Hunter (Alphin)

- Man O'War: Best Racehorse Ever (Mckerley)

- Horse Named Seabiscuit (Duvowski)

- Moonwalk (Donnelly)

- Buddy: The First Seeing Eye Dog (Moore)

- The Bravest Dog Ever: The True Story of Balto (Standiford)

- Jumbo: The Most Famous Elephant in the World (Worth)

 

 

Gentle First Chapter Books

- The Great Illustrated Classics series

- The Littles series (Peterson)

- Magic Tree House series (Osborn)

- Cam Jensen series (Prellar)

- Billy and Blaze series (Anderson)

- In Grandma's Attic series (Richardson)

- Moongobble and Me series (Coville)

- A Lion to Guard Us (Bulla)

- The Secret Valley (Bulla)

- The Story of Thomas Alva Edison (Davidson)

- Helen Keller (Davidson)

- Helen Keller's Teacher (Davidson)

- Louis Braille (Davidson)

- Five True Dog Stories (Davidson)

- Nine True Dolphin Stories (Davidson)

- Five True Horse Stories (Davidson)

- Seven True Horse Stories (Davidson)

- Dolphin Adventure (Grover)

- Dolphin Treasure (Grover)

- Light at Tern Rock (Sauer)

- A Single Grain of Rice (Pittman)

- The Little Riders (Shemin)

- McBroom's Wonderful One Acre Farm (Fleischman)

[Rosy]

My dd is enjoying Amelia Bedelia and the Little Pony readers, are these considered twaddle?

 

Is there a list of non-twaddle books for the grammar stage some where?

 

Educate me, please. :)

 

If you have an interest in adding Writing With Ease to your curriculum, she includes snippets from many excellent books, and usually the snippet is enough to get them to want to know more about the story. I have loved it for that reason, among others!

 

I don't consider Amelia Bedelia twaddle, but I'm also of the mind that getting them to enjoy reading is more important than reading the "right" books, at least at first. I tend to take more of a "bait-and-switch" approach--get them started on what they enjoy, and then introduce the good stuff until they're comfortable with it and eventually preferring it.

 

For DD10 it was Magic Treehouse (the sentence fragments make me cringe), for DS8 it is Diary of a Wimpy Kid (which are actually really funny), and DD7 loves Ivy & Bean and Junie B. Jones. There was a time when I swore my kids would never read any of that stuff. But I think it serves a purpose.

 

On the other hand, I was an excellent reader as a kid, but never read anything for pleasure except Baby-Sitters Club or Sweet Valley High. What a waste. :P

[Bird Girl]

Another thing to keep in mind during the learning-to-read stage is that you can still read literature to them when all they can read for themselves is Frog-and-Toad type stuff. I wouldn't worry at all about what they read for themselves until 4th or 5th grade and you want to start off-loading some of the reading aloud to their own silent reading. Then there's the difference between assigned reading and their own choices for free reading time. I love watching my daughter choose The Saturdays or The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe for her free-reading time, but I don't comment if she's re-reading Harry Potter for the 57th time.

[Kates]

If you have an interest in adding Writing With Ease to your curriculum, she includes snippets from many excellent books, and usually the snippet is enough to get them to want to know more about the story. I have loved it for that reason, among others!

 

I don't consider Amelia Bedelia twaddle, but I'm also of the mind that getting them to enjoy reading is more important than reading the "right" books, at least at first. I tend to take more of a "bait-and-switch" approach--get them started on what they enjoy, and then introduce the good stuff until they're comfortable with it and eventually preferring it.

 

For DD10 it was Magic Treehouse (the sentence fragments make me cringe), for DS8 it is Diary of a Wimpy Kid (which are actually really funny), and DD7 loves Ivy & Bean and Junie B. Jones. There was a time when I swore my kids would never read any of that stuff. But I think it serves a purpose.

 

On the other hand, I was an excellent reader as a kid, but never read anything for pleasure except Baby-Sitters Club or Sweet Valley High. What a waste. :P

 

:iagree:

 

And I have learned some very important things on this thread...

 

1) To never again try to define "twaddle" on the WTM boards ;)

 

and

 

2) To never again besmirch the good name of Captain Underpants :D (j/k, promise!)

 

<My attempt to end my participation in this convo on a light note ;)>

[nmoira]

2) To never again besmirch the good name of Captain Underpants :D (j/k, promise!)

 

<My attempt to end my participation in this convo on a light note ;)>

 

:lol: For the record, we've only used CU en español. However, DD the Elder never cared for them even in English.

 

One thing I've learned on these boards is that one family's twaddle is another family's salvation when it comes to getting kids to read.

[Farrar]

The OP got some good suggestions and reading lists up there. My kids especially like everything by Cynthia Rylant. That's some great stuff.

 

I'm with you, Moira. I also think there's not a clear definition of twaddle and that there can be redeeming value in many things. I often find that the licensed character books (like My Little Pony, Spongebob, Disney Princesses) is of a lower quality in characterization, plot and sentence structure, but not always... and just because that's true doesn't mean there's not *some* value in it.

 

Mostly I think people on this board worry WAY too much about twaddle... is this twaddle, is that twaddle? Just chill. I know some people here disagree, but I say as long as you give the kids good books too, a little bit of junky reading never hurt anyone.