LA advice needed - CLE/R&S

[Cynful]

I need some advice on which of these two to choose for my kids. I'm 23 weeks pregnant and just placed on bed rest for the rest of the pregnancy. I need to make things easier so all in one is my plan.

 

My daughter, 10, learns easily and can work independently or with me, either way. She likes workbooks and likes discovery led curriculum; she loves RightStart Math and hands on science. She hasn't had too much in the way of grammar before.

 

My son, 13, has dyslexia, learning delays and, most likely, dysgraphia. I'll need to do everything with him. He is the opposite of discovery led (he wouldn't discover a rattlesnake biting him); really needs to be led and directed before he "sees" things. He's also not had a huge amount of grammar.

 

Any ideas which of these would work better for either one? I'm not opposed to using different books with each one if necessary.

[Pat in MI]

Well, I see this one getting buried so I am bumping it for you. In my mind I am seeing you and your children cuddling on the bed with the R & S grammar (grade 4 or 5). Doing grammar orally and using a white board and assigning some written work or the worksheets. Based on your description of your dc, I think you could work out of the same book with both of them. I hope others weigh in on this for you. HTH

Blessings,

Pat

[mrs.m]

I think the nice thing about R&S is that you can pick it up at 4 whether they have had grammar or not. It starts with the basics and builds. R&S can be done independently if your DD desires or you can do most of orally.

 

I believe CLE assumes that there has been instruction in the previous grades. It will be hard to pick up at 5th grade for your DD. I'm not sure about 4th, we did R&S last year for 4th and transitioned nicely into CLE 5th. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE CLE! I love that it includes everything! I love that my DD can work independently which is what she prefers. I am seeing a lot of progress in reading and LA area because of CLE. If you are considering CLE, try their placement tests first to determine the grade level.

[Leila]

We have never done CLE and we've only use R&S in our grammar. I can see you doing R&S with both of your kids. In your bed with your kids, reading the lesson to them, doing a couple of exercises on a small white board and doing it orally. You can assign some independent work, too. I would also suggest R&S 4 to start. It's good starting point considering your kids age.

 

I pray everything works well with you and your pregnancy.

[Cynful]

Thanks. I don't know why I'm obsessing over this decision.... maybe just being pregnant. LOL I like that CLE has everything and is workbook but I like that R&S is so thorough (maybe too much so???) and has writing assignments in it too. I don't mind the snuggling on the bed doing it, though I highly doubt my 13yo ds will jump in. ;)

 

Anyone else?

[m0mmaBuck]

I need some advice on which of these two to choose for my kids. I'm 23 weeks pregnant and just placed on bed rest for the rest of the pregnancy. I need to make things easier so all in one is my plan.

 

My daughter, 10, learns easily and can work independently or with me, either way. She likes workbooks and likes discovery led curriculum; she loves RightStart Math and hands on science. She hasn't had too much in the way of grammar before.

 

My son, 13, has dyslexia, learning delays and, most likely, dysgraphia. I'll need to do everything with him. He is the opposite of discovery led (he wouldn't discover a rattlesnake biting him); really needs to be led and directed before he "sees" things. He's also not had a huge amount of grammar.

 

Any ideas which of these would work better for either one? I'm not opposed to using different books with each one if necessary.

 

I started with CLE when I started HS'ing DS mid-way through 2nd grade. Due to a lack of a good LA foundation (thank you PS), he tested into the 100 level of CLE so that's where we started. He was in tears daily trying to muddle his way through the symbols and repetition. I was also using FLL because I knew he needed help with grammar, writing, and so on. And WWE. And AAS. And CLE penmanship. Sigh....

 

By the end of the year we were doing SWO, FLL (primarily verbally), copywork, CLE penmanship, and CLE, and CLE was still miserable for us. It just didn't click for him. I think, as PP mentioned, CLE assumes previous instruction in their methods.

 

This year (3rd grade) we are using R&S3, SWO, copywork/dictation/narration for handwriting, and a review of phonics alongside DD4. It is MUCH better for us. Why? Because R&S LA's review can be done orally and the written portions are short, painless, and to the point. There is a book of worksheets you can order to go along with the textbook for extra practice where needed. You can create your own extra practice if needed.

 

I really think you could use R&S (same level) for both of your kids. I think your DD would be OK with CLE but DS would be frustrated with page after page of symbols and signs and review. I think they would both get what they need from R&S. Your DD could work more independently on the assignments and worksheets while you spent more one-on-one time working through things verbally with your son.

[JudoMom]

I'm just throwing my vote in for Rod & Staff, for the reasons mentioned by the other posters :001_smile:. Rod & Staff is really adaptable.

[homeschoolally]

My daughter, 10, learns easily and can work independently or with me, either way. She likes workbooks and likes discovery led curriculum; she loves RightStart Math and hands on science. She hasn't had too much in the way of grammar before.

 

My son, 13, has dyslexia, learning delays and, most likely, dysgraphia. I'll need to do everything with him. He is the opposite of discovery led (he wouldn't discover a rattlesnake biting him); really needs to be led and directed before he "sees" things. He's also not had a huge amount of grammar.

 

 

 

I've used them both, think CLE may be a better fit for your son. I have a 12 yo son who also has dysgraphia, so I'll just speak to that--sounds like your daughter will be fine either way.

 

He loves CLE LA. We've devised writing shortcuts that allow him to show he knows the material with less writing, and just double up on the lessons to make a full schoolday. He can do this right in the workbook, which wouldn't really work well with R&S.

 

I only require the first letter or two of each word in his diagrams, and I allow him to make the 'corrections' on top of the existing sentence instead of rewriting it.

 

Anytime it works, he is allowed to draw a line to the answer instead of writing it out.

 

We use something else for spelling, so without all the writing he is able to do several chapters a day--and has truly mastered the material.

 

On tests I usually have him write things out, but for daily work these shortcuts have really worked.

 

We went all the way back to 500 and worked quickly through each LU to get caught up. He loves the feeling of progress when he finished each workbook--and with this approach it goes quickly.

 

With CLE reading, we do the long questions aloud and he does the short-answer questions in the workbook.

 

Hope this helps! If you'd like to see how he does it, I'd be glad to email you a few pages of his work. It took a few weeks to get in a routine, but now he can really zip through the work and his motivation has soared because he sees real progress.

 

FWIW, we just did a practice ACT last week and he aced the english section--CLE has been his only 'real' LA curriculum so I'm even more sold on it now. I'm sure you'd learn the same material in R&S, but the way we've set CLE up to work around his dysgraphia has been one of the best schooling decisions we've ever made!

Edited September 18, 2010 by homeschoolally

[Cynful]

Well... it seems like R&S is the top recommendation though many like CLE too. Thank you Homeschoolally for your explanation of how you do it with your son. I had planned on something almost just like that or with me acting as scribe.

 

Are there any negatives to using R&S or CLE? Maybe that would help me decide.

Edited September 18, 2010 by Lucidity

[Cynful]

Also, which might be better for writing assignments? or better to stick with long term?

 

Thanks to everyone for their advice,

[mrs.m]

R&S has writing assignements built in. But I really didn't feel like it was enough for 4th grade unless they are doing writing in other subjects as well. CLE is very light on the writing assignments unless you order their book "On Teaching Writing" and follow the teacher's guide. Or supplement with another writing program. I use "On Teaching Writing" and the LA2 teacher guide for DS. But I use Meaningful Composition for DD who is CLE LA 5.

 

I felt that CLE would be better long term because of the combined LA approach. It's so much more than grammar.

[homeschoolally]

The one negative I see with CLE is that there aren't enough writing assignments. In our case, that works out fine because we're backing off on writing assignments this year until my son matures a little more.

 

If essays are a big priority to you right now, you'd need to supplement CLE for that. I hope that by backing off this year and allowing my son to really master the grammar, next year when we dig into writing he'll be ready.

 

Have you looked closely at the scope and sequence on CLE's website? I printed them off and combed through them, highlighting and marking them, all the way through HS. That was really helpful in making my decision to stick with CLE.

 

Also want to make sure to point out, I think R&S is great too. I don't think you could go wrong either way, I just found that the workbooks gave my son a lot more room to take writing shortcuts, and that the feeling of accomplishment by moving to the next 'book' so quickly really motivated him.

 

:001_smile:

 

ETA Just thought of one more possible negative, but to me it isn't a big deal at all , the pacifist tone in some of the reading required a little extra explanation from me because we have a differing POV. There have only been a few reading assignments like that, only took a minute to explain it--but just thought I'd mention.

Edited September 19, 2010 by homeschoolally

[Dawn E]

CLE is great for encouraging independent study. I'm usually an "if it isn't broken, don't fix it" type of girl, but we all have seasons in our life when a change can be helpful. If it helps during this more difficult season, but isn't everything you'd hoped, you can always return to R&S later. I'm very pleased with CLE, but I've never used R&S.

[Marie in Oh]

one thing that I wanted to point out is that the coding and symbols are not used in the older grades in either reading or LA. That is an early grade thing. It helps to reinforce their phonics, but I haven't seen it in the 4th grade and up LU's. I would say that CLE would be great for independence. I found that R&S required entirely too much hand holding for me, and my kids hated it because they thought it too dry. They all love CLE, and we are using it in 5 levels.

[MIch elle]

Well... it seems like R&S is the top recommendation though many like CLE too. Thank you Homeschoolally for your explanation of how you do it with your son. I had planned on something almost just like that or with me acting as scribe.

 

Are there any negatives to using R&S or CLE? Maybe that would help me decide.

 

The negative of using R&S English is the mastery approach - every year prepositions is always one of the last chapters in the series. It didn't give my dc enough time with prepositions. R&S writing assignments are better; poetry & literary analysis are included in the series.

 

The negative with CLE is that the teacher's guide is poor. R&S TM's are the best I've seen. CLE poetry & literary analysis is more thorough than R&S but it's NOT included in CLE LA; it's in CLE reading series (which I HIGHLY recommend).

 

 

They are both EXCELLENT!

[Cynful]

We've just started CLE Reading - does that make any difference? I didn't think so, but wasn't sure.

 

I guess I can't really make too much of a wrong decision here. :) However, it goes against my "perfectionist" tendencies not to choose the "right" one. :rolleyes:

[gpsings]

We love CLE, but it sounds like R&S might be a better fit for you. I think either of them are great programs though!

[Annie Laurie]

I have used both and think they're both great programs. But CLE is much more independent and has been great for us- it always gets done. I can tell my kids are learning a lot and retaining it. Today my 9 yr old decided to use a blank book to make a book about spiders all by himself. He knew how to make a table of contents, glossary and index. And his paragraphs were neat and included a topic sentence and complete sentences. I give both CLE and WWE credit for this. I don't know if CLE has enough writing by itself, I am a firm believer in copywork, dictation, and narration, so we would have added those anyway. CLE fills in with some useful skills like letter writing. Best of all, my kids can do CLE independently, and then we just go over the answers together, which is much more efficient time-wise for us.

[Melabella]

My dd is 11 and dyslexic with some dysgraphia issues. We have previously used FLL and Growing with Grammar. My dd speaks with correct grammar nearly 100% of the time; however, remembering and identifying the parts of speech has been the bane of my existience for 4 years now. Well, that and spelling!

 

I chose Rod & Staff for this year because of its reputation. I wanted the "best" and "most rigorous." After reviewing the materials and completing the first two chapters, I feel that the accolades are warranted. However, I didn't realize that it is a mastery program and not what will work for my dyslexic dd. I also did not care for the layout of the TM, but that may just be me. My dd would not be able to work independently at all through R&S.

 

After I realized R&S was not going to work for us, it occurred to me that CLE might be a good fit because it is spiral and she has done extremely well with their math. I ordered CLE 500 two weeks ago and my dd just started LU502 today. We did 501 orally while I decided if it was a keeper. I actually meant to order 600, but goofed. I'm glad I did because 500 includes some things we have not covered. My dd prefers that I go over the "lesson" with her, but then she is able to work somewhat independently. I am usually working nearby and available to answer questions or provide guidance as needed. Most children without learning disabilities should be able to use CLE independently. We skip the penmanship portions and do only some of the spelling. We use something else for writing and spelling, but most of the spelling exercises include other skills such as identifying synonyms/antonyms or part of speech which make them worthwhile. I did not order the TM or answer key and I don't feel that I need either at this point. We are both happier with this approach. Honestly, though, I haven't really noticed much of an improvement in her retention; it may just be too soon to tell. I can see that it is a better fit for her and I'm hopeful!

 

All of this to say that I think either would work for your dd, but CLE would be a better fit for your ds. CLE, hands down, would be less work/time consuming for you. If your dc haven't had much grammar, I would definitely advise you give them each the placement test to determine the appropriate levels. The 500 level already assumes knowledge of diagramming and past/present participles. You will probably want to start at a lower level.

Edited September 21, 2010 by Melabella

[FriedClams]

I can only compare R&S 2 with CLE 2 (grammar and bible) - but I feel that CLE is comparable in rigor, it's just less tedious. The workbook set up is pretty streamlined - so they get all the practice it's just with less unnecessary writing. We're doing CLE 4 for Reading and LA, and for writing we do add in a page summary of history 2x a week, another assigned writing event (like a letter or something else) and we do Meaningful Composition. MC is very student led, systematic (a lot like IEW in approach).

 

I think we have a great balance right now and LA (one the days we do everything - reading and bible are both 1/2 years so we alternate those) usually doesn't take an hour.

[blessedmom3]

I have not used R&S but have extensively looked at the samples and to me it looks very boring. CLE works great for my son and he actually enjoys it.

If I would be you , I would definitely go with CLE . Even though it does not have enough writing , I supplement. I heard the writing in R&S is not that great either.

Plus CLE includes spelling from 5000 most common words. For an average to good speller, it works great .

[Cynful]

Just wondering.... what if I used R&S English for days I'm up to teaching and used the CLE Lightunits for days I'm not? Kind of like many do for math... for example, I use RightStart but supplement with Singapore.

 

Would that work out or would that bomb?

Edited September 25, 2010 by Lucidity
added info

[mystika1]

 

CLE was miserable for us. It just didn't click .

:iagree:

[blessedmom3]

Just wondering.... what if I used R&S English for days I'm up to teaching and used the CLE Lightunits for days I'm not? Kind of like many do for math... for example, I use RightStart but supplement with Singapore.

 

Would that work out or would that bomb?

 

 

You would never finish either one . Plus it gets expensive if you buy both.

Trust CLE , your kids will enjoy it more and it's easier to use .