Tapestry of Grace - What do you think???

[RandomActs412]

I am trying to plan for next year, can you give me your opinions of TOG.

 

This will be with my dd 6 almost 7 yo for 2nd grade. I also have a 5 and 3 yo. I did MFW last year and my daughter disliked it. The main complaint was that she didnt like the Bible reader. I am also looking at VP and Sonlight, I just dont think my other two will give us that much read aloud time to do SL. This is only my second year HSing and so I am still trying to figure out how the kids learn. Thanks for any opinions/comments/advice. -Alana

 

I plan on doing Abeka LA/phonics.

Gods design for science.

[Aubrey]

.

Edited June 18, 2010 by Aubrey

[Aubrey]

I'm sorry--I thought it was funny for this to come up again so soon, & I really thought some of the points made on the other thread would be relevant. Someone just pm'd me a link to *another* thread that I haven't finished reading yet, but in light of what I've read so far, I felt bad to just leave this like this. I didn't mean to impede real information about TOG--just felt kind-of silly. Sorry.

Edited June 18, 2010 by Aubrey

[Hillary in KS]

I am trying to plan for next year, can you give me your opinions of TOG.

 

This will be with my dd 6 almost 7 yo for 2nd grade. I also have a 5 and 3 yo. I did MFW last year and my daughter disliked it. The main complaint was that she didnt like the Bible reader. I am also looking at VP and Sonlight, I just dont think my other two will give us that much read aloud time to do SL. This is only my second year HSing and so I am still trying to figure out how the kids learn. Thanks for any opinions/comments/advice. -Alana

 

I plan on doing Abeka LA/phonics.

Gods design for science.

 

I've used TOG for 2 years, so maybe I'm still a newbie. We love it, especially for my 8th grader.

 

We did history the WTM way when dc 14 was in elementary grades. When he got to the logic stage, the outlining of Kingfisher history pages killed any excitement for history he had. I wanted something that would challenge him, but wouldn't require me to do a whole lot of adapting. (i.e. continue to use SOTW, but then adapt all the readings and material *upward* for him.)

 

TOG fit with our goals perfectly. Challenging reading. Thought-provoking questions/answers and activities, and LOTS of great discussions. (Granted, I'm talking about an older student, here.)

 

My younger dc (ds 9 and ds 7) are still doing grammar-stage SOTW. When they move up to logic stage we'll continue with TOG.

[Shelly in the Country]

I've only ever tried Sonlight and TOG, but I like TOG far and away more than I ever liked SL. The mapwork is better, the history is more in depth. At the upper levels of TOG discussion is promoted between parent and child regarding the history they are learning. There is more support offered through the Evaluations TOG sells and it has integrated writing assignments if you want that. By buying one level of TOG, you basically have a teacher's manual going all the way from elementary school through high school for that time period. TOG uses a 4 year history cycle as recommended in TWTM. TOG is a Christian worldview centered program. I wish I had started with this with my kids from the beginning.

 

And, as for the linked thread above that started the "firestorm" a few days ago....

 

Those concerns were addressed on TOG's forums.

 

ETA: SL has more Read Alouds than TOG. I add some extra Read Alouds in sometimes with TOG, but with SL I ended up having to cut some out.

[Hillary in KS]

 

And, as for the linked thread above that started the "firestorm" a few days ago....

 

Those concerns were addressed on TOG's forums.

 

:iagree:

Yes, and quite nicely. I was very impressed with the handling of the issue there and the mature, thorough addressing of the objections raised.

[Aubrey]

:iagree:

Yes, and quite nicely. I was very impressed with the handling of the issue there and the mature, thorough addressing of the objections raised.

 

Hey, I haven't finished reading that thread yet, but if it's relevant--maybe somebody could go back & link it to the original evil history thread? I can't tell yet how it's going to end up.

[Shelly in the Country]

Hey, I haven't finished reading that thread yet, but if it's relevant--maybe somebody could go back & link it to the original evil history thread? I can't tell yet how it's going to end up.

 

I think the original thread was locked.

[TracyP]

It is locked, but here is the link to TOG's forums. I think it ended well all things considered.

[Aubrey]

:iagree:

Yes, and quite nicely. I was very impressed with the handling of the issue there and the mature, thorough addressing of the objections raised.

 

Huh. I just finished reading it. I guess I wouldn't call that a "thorough" addressing. :confused1:

[TracyP]

RandomActs - you may want to try a new thread in a week or so.:lol:

 

Aubrey, what wasn't addressed in your view?

[Aubrey]

RandomActs - you may want to try a new thread in a week or so.:lol:

 

Aubrey, what wasn't addressed in your view?

 

Gosh, I'm sorry, Random. I've looked at ToG for something for the middle cycle--I forget what it's called--when we're done w/ SOTW. It's been a top contender for me ever since I saw the map of subjects covered, but I haven't used it.

 

Tracy--pm or start a new thread, do you think?

[siloam]

Huh. I just finished reading it. I guess I wouldn't call that a "thorough" addressing. :confused1:

 

In regards to TOG using This Country of Ours at the D level, I found threads on TOG forums that made it seems like the D level is supposed to be learning about author bias. On the weeks I looked up the book was scheduled as in-depth, so if you do just the minimum of TOG it wouldn't be an issue. If you do in-depth there was no less than 5 books covered in both the weeks I looked at, so that text is just a small piece of the information they pick up.

 

I have used TOG half way through year 2-year 4 classic and I haven't had any content problems. This country of Ours I would have a problem with, unless it is being used in the way the gal on the TOG forums said it was being used, to learn about author bias. We rarely do the in-depth so it won't be an issue here.

 

Just to clarify I own Classic years 2-4 and Redesign years 1-3. This Country of Ours isn't in classic at all that I saw, so the above information on the schedule is for Redesign.

 

Heather

 

Heather

[bethben]

 

This will be with my dd 6 almost 7 yo for 2nd grade. I also have a 5 and 3 yo. I did MFW last year and my daughter disliked it. The main complaint was that she didnt like the Bible reader. I am also looking at VP and Sonlight, I just dont think my other two will give us that much read aloud time to do SL. This is only my second year HSing and so I am still trying to figure out how the kids learn. Thanks for any opinions/comments/advice. -Alana

 

 

I don't know that I would throw out MFW based on your daughter not liking the Bible reader from Grade 1. Adventures is very different from Grade 1, She may find Adventures more exciting. If you liked MFW, I would try another year and see if that helps. If you had more issues with it, then that's a different story. MFW is a good program and lots of people like it, it just didn't work for my teaching style (I'm a little on the like to choose different things and want something a little more flexible for me. Ds really liked his 2 years with MFW).

 

I like TOG because it helps keep all my kids of various ages together and it really won't take the read aloud time that Sonlight does. The books are also more appropriate because they contain pictures which is great for that age group. If you wanted read alouds, you could choose books from the UG literature section. I tend not to do long read alouds or many activities just due to the crazy nature of our home right now, but they're there if you want them.

 

Beth

[siloam]

I am trying to plan for next year, can you give me your opinions of TOG.

 

This will be with my dd 6 almost 7 yo for 2nd grade. I also have a 5 and 3 yo. I did MFW last year and my daughter disliked it. The main complaint was that she didnt like the Bible reader. I am also looking at VP and Sonlight, I just dont think my other two will give us that much read aloud time to do SL. This is only my second year HSing and so I am still trying to figure out how the kids learn. Thanks for any opinions/comments/advice. -Alana

 

I plan on doing Abeka LA/phonics.

Gods design for science.

 

The biggest difference with both VP and TOG compared to SL is planning. SL is designed to be open and go, with little to no prep. TOG and VP require making some choices, and prep work. Though I haven't used VP it is based on what I see from looking at the program and hearing other people talk.

 

I started out with SL, but my younger kids are very hands on, and sensitive, so by Core 2 it wasn't going well. I switched to WP and used it at my middle two dd's level and it worked pretty well, but I did still add for my oldest and I really wanted more mapping than I was seeing at the AS 1 level. TOG just ended up being a good fit here because it has the hands on, and it allows me easy substitute books I prefer for the topic. Plus with how much I was tweaking things with the other programs the planning in TOG was no big deal.

 

But I have seen a lot of TOG drop outs, and it is a lot of money up front, so my advice is to first give the 3 week sample a shot to make sure you can make it work for you before you buy.

 

Heather

 

[johnandtinagilbert]

Alana,

Hi. I think you'll find TOG could narrow down the amount of reading aloud you do b/c of its design. That same design would allow for more reading when time allows. Either way, you wouldn't be messing up a day by day schedule (as presented in SL) and you can choose just what is right for your family.

 

If you didn't like a particular spine, alternatives are offered, so you could change a book if your daughter dislikes one. This would avoid the problem you had with MFW.

 

The hands on component of history was most memorable for my children at that age, and is today for those who still are! TOG provides book suggestions and online resources to provide hands on activities.

 

Finally, as your children each enter school and studies of history, TOG will provide you with what you need for all of their learning levels. With the varied suggestions, it will also serve most learning styles well.

 

You can check out my blog and read a few other things I've written about TOG. I'll save SWB the space :)

[RandomActs412]

Good Afternoon,

Thanks for the advice, What facinates me about TOG is the hands which is lacking in SL. I work three days a week so the stand alone SL schedule will not work for me anyways.

 

Siloam, since you used SL did you feel there were too many RAs because that is another bog concern for me. I have three active children and it is hard enough to get them to sit still before they go to bed for a story. I do love the literature included with SL though which makes me come back to it but I can always add that in.

I have downloaded the TOG samples and enjoyed them, especially like the wkst for reinforcement and loved all the info included.

For VP, my dd(7) sampled the online self-paced course and absolutely loved it. I am not to hip on it because I dont want her on the computer all day log, but it was a wonderful program from what I saw. So, I have a decision to make and am confused.

Alana

[siloam]

Good Afternoon,

Thanks for the advice, What facinates me about TOG is the hands which is lacking in SL. I work three days a week so the stand alone SL schedule will not work for me anyways.

 

Siloam, since you used SL did you feel there were too many RAs because that is another bog concern for me. I have three active children and it is hard enough to get them to sit still before they go to bed for a story. I do love the literature included with SL though which makes me come back to it but I can always add that in.

I have downloaded the TOG samples and enjoyed them, especially like the wkst for reinforcement and loved all the info included.

For VP, my dd(7) sampled the online self-paced course and absolutely loved it. I am not to hip on it because I dont want her on the computer all day log, but it was a wonderful program from what I saw. So, I have a decision to make and am confused.

Alana

 

Alana,

 

The problem I had with the RA's in SL is that I enjoyed them so I would stay on schedule for them, but history would get behind. :D Actually the biggest problem I had was that I was doing a program based on my oldest dd's age, and my middle two are extremely sensitive, so the emotional content in SL RA's were just too much. I just had a hard time balancing everyone's needs.

 

The good news, for me, was that most of the SL RA's are in TOG, just listed as Literature at the D level. We don't miss out, we just wait. Instead of having a scheduled RA that we need to get done we have a family read aloud time. During that time my kids will work on some sort of hands on project. Right now it is paper Pokemon, but recently they went through a Perler Bead craze. I prefer having our read aloud time not attached to history, because it gives us a lot more flexibility both in what we read and how long we take.

 

Given you have a busy schedule, if you do decide to go with SL, I would encourage you to pick something in the middle of your kids ages, or even towards the youngest. You can always move an older child up to Core 100 once they reach high school, so they get all they need to graduate. Starting at a lower level will give you a better chance of success, and make it easier to add in hands on.

 

TOG can have its own problems. I personally have a hard time saying no to all the wonderful stuff. I have had times when I have spend a whole month on one TOG week. I am getting better about picking and choosing, but it is not something that is easy for me.

 

Heather

 

[mamato4girls]

I love your posts Heather, everytime I think of backing out of TOG (which is brand new and sitting in the box still), I come across one of your posts, and I am so drawn to it. To the OP, thank you for posting this. I keep feeling drawn to SL also, but my oldest is in 10th and I just feel TOG is a perfect fit for sooo many reasons for my family. Maybe I just need to throw out my beloved SL catalog!

 

Alana,

 

The problem I had with the RA's in SL is that I enjoyed them so I would stay on schedule for them, but history would get behind. :D Actually the biggest problem I had was that I was doing a program based on my oldest dd's age, and my middle two are extremely sensitive, so the emotional content in SL RA's were just too much. I just had a hard time balancing everyone's needs.

 

The good news, for me, was that most of the SL RA's are in TOG, just listed as Literature at the D level. We don't miss out, we just wait. Instead of having a scheduled RA that we need to get done we have a family read aloud time. During that time my kids will work on some sort of hands on project. Right now it is paper Pokemon, but recently they went through a Perler Bead craze. I prefer having our read aloud time not attached to history, because it gives us a lot more flexibility both in what we read and how long we take.

 

Given you have a busy schedule, if you do decide to go with SL, I would encourage you to pick something in the middle of your kids ages, or even towards the youngest. You can always move an older child up to Core 100 once they reach high school, so they get all they need to graduate. Starting at a lower level will give you a better chance of success, and make it easier to add in hands on.

 

TOG can have its own problems. I personally have a hard time saying no to all the wonderful stuff. I have had times when I have spend a whole month on one TOG week. I am getting better about picking and choosing, but it is not something that is easy for me.

 

Heather

 

 

[Momma H]

I agree with the above poster who said not to give up on MFW because of a Bible Reader. Honestly, I did TOG and am a dropout. If you are working 3 days a week, you are going to have a hard time keeping up with the program and with the planning. IT IS ALOT! It worries me a little that so many people are jumping on the bandwagon. I have done it and I am just worried about people actually doing it and being able to comfortably school thier kids for very long with it. I really like MFW, it is good for someone who does not have all kinds of extra time to plan, buy or order books and teach TOG. We got behind in math and science because this history program took so much. Anyway, I hate to be a wet blanket but I have to tell the truth in love!

[woolybear]

 

Instead of having a scheduled RA that we need to get done we have a family read aloud time. During that time my kids will work on some sort of hands on project. Right now it is paper Pokemon, but recently they went through a Perler Bead craze. I prefer having our read aloud time not attached to history, because it gives us a lot more flexibility both in what we read and how long we take.

 

 

 

 

Heather-- Can you explain what you mean by this? Aren't there read alouds with TOG? Or is it just for non readers? Or is it just that there isn't as much of it so that frees up read aloud time for whatever you want it to be?

 

Thanks for you help.

[mommaduck]

I don't like the bible readings used in certain years of MFW; we just don't do them and do our own thing. I would not throw the entire program out on that one thing alone.

 

Having used TOG when my oldest children were younger, I didn't listen when those around me told me that the program was too advanced for young children and was geared towards older children (with the possibility of tossing in younger children, but only with older siblings already). I regretted that year. It was awful. There is a lot of planning that goes into TOG and it was way over my children's head.

[mama27]

I just started using it with my 10,7,and 6 year olds. LG and UG. IMO it is worth it for them because it helps me to have a plan, but not a daily, set in stone plan. There are lots of hands-on activities. I am using YR 1 and am finding it very easy to subsitute books. Plus knowing i will be using it again and i don't have to keep looking for another curric is an added bonus!

I do not do everything TOG has listed, for example, the lapbooks. We don't do them.

Even my 3 and 5 yos are getting quite a bit from TOG.

Tammy

[Kipling]

I just started using it with my 10,7,and 6 year olds. LG and UG. IMO it is worth it for them because it helps me to have a plan, but not a daily, set in stone plan. There are lots of hands-on activities. I am using YR 1 and am finding it very easy to subsitute books. Plus knowing i will be using it again and i don't have to keep looking for another curric is an added bonus!

I do not do everything TOG has listed, for example, the lapbooks. We don't do them.

Even my 3 and 5 yos are getting quite a bit from TOG.

Tammy

 

:iagree:I searched around quite a lot last summer because I wanted to find one program to start my 1st grader on that I would be able to continue using for a long time.

I just finished TOG Year 1 with my 6 and 4 year old. They really enjoyed it, and I didn't feel it was too much for them. I was warned by another hs-ing mother that it was too much for young kids, but it has worked for us. As Marcia Sommerville at TOG explains many times, there is so much in TOG, that you are to pick and choose from the activities and readings much like you would choose your food at a buffet-style restaurant.

 

Personally, I need something to help me stay on track, but I don't like a curriculum that is so prescribed that it tells me exactly what to do and what days to do it. I have found that TOG gives me what I am looking for. Also, I like that I can reuse the whole curriculum again as my kids get older. IMO, it is a great cyclical approach to history as outlined in WTM, allowing you to go more in-depth each time around.

[MarinesWife]

I think TOG is a really expensive program for a young child, especially if you aren't sure if you'll like it.

 

On the other hand, I have several friends using it, and they love it, even for their younger children.

 

The Story of the World along with activity books might be a great option. There are lots of hands on activities in there.

 

I decided on GeoMatter's Pathways to Explorations, however it is listed as 3rd-5th, and it isn't so "crafty." Hands on but more in the realm of art and mapping.

[Karenciavo]

I have used TOG for every grade from pre-K to 11th and I have appreciated it at every level. I recognize that this is not the case for everyone. Over the years, we are beginning our 8th year with TOG, I have seen many people come and go, sometimes more than once. There is no way any of us can say for sure how any curriculum will fit with any family. TOG is an expensive experiment. If a three week sample isn't enough to let you get an accurate picture, and it may not be - that's not uncommon for many, I suggest purchasing one unit or a year plan that can be resold.

 

I put work into how I use TOG for my soon to be ds8. I thrive on adding things to all the curricula we use. I add copywork from his readings, I make a list of facts he is accountable for, I search out coloring pages, notebooking, videos, I add books (he likes to read.) He enjoys it, he's learned a lot and retained it, the other day in Costco he gave me a mini history of IBM when he saw the IBM cash register. He often goes on about info he remembers from TOG.

 

Using TOG from the grammar stage as advantages, the greatest advantage being you, the teacher, get intimately acquainted with TOG and when you arrive at the dialectic stage there's a low learning curve. But it can also be an albatross for some, those that want a daily schedule or less choices or something more like a workbook. Some people get bored with the same curriculum year after year. To them I would say wait. TOG is best at the rhetoric stage no question.

 

HTH,

Karen

[TracyP]

Using TOG from the grammar stage as advantages, the greatest advantage being you, the teacher, get intimately acquainted with TOG and when you arrive at the dialectic stage there's a low learning curve. But it can also be an albatross for some, those that want a daily schedule or less choices or something more like a workbook. Some people get bored with the same curriculum year after year. To them I would say wait. TOG is best at the rhetoric stage no question.

 

HTH,

Karen

 

:iagree: I am using (and loving) TOG with littles but that doesn't work for everyone. Buying a unit sealed the deal for me. I spent an entire evening "playing" with it and bought the rest the next morning. Even if you eventually want print, you will only be out $45 if you try a DE unit. The sample helps but it wasn't enough for me. Trying a unit will really help you to see if it is the right choice for your family right now.

 

My second best would be SOTW for the first cycle. You can always give TOG another look when you are ready for the next cycle.

[johnandtinagilbert]

I have used TOG for every grade from pre-K to 11th and I have appreciated it at every level. I recognize that this is not the case for everyone. Over the years, we are beginning our 8th year with TOG, I have seen many people come and go, sometimes more than once. There is no way any of us can say for sure how any curriculum will fit with any family. TOG is an expensive experiment. If a three week sample isn't enough to let you get an accurate picture, and it may not be - that's not uncommon for many, I suggest purchasing one unit or a year plan that can be resold.

 

I put work into how I use TOG for my soon to be ds8. I thrive on adding things to all the curricula we use. I add copywork from his readings, I make a list of facts he is accountable for, I search out coloring pages, notebooking, videos, I add books (he likes to read.) He enjoys it, he's learned a lot and retained it, the other day in Costco he gave me a mini history of IBM when he saw the IBM cash register. He often goes on about info he remembers from TOG.

 

Using TOG from the grammar stage as advantages, the greatest advantage being you, the teacher, get intimately acquainted with TOG and when you arrive at the dialectic stage there's a low learning curve. But it can also be an albatross for some, those that want a daily schedule or less choices or something more like a workbook. Some people get bored with the same curriculum year after year. To them I would say wait. TOG is best at the rhetoric stage no question.

 

HTH,

Karen

:iagree: Ahhh, the beauty of wisdom. As always, Karen, yes, yes, yes.

[RandomActs412]

Well, I have the ancient SOTW and have been looking at the acitivity guide and the lit suggestions. I looked again at Adventures for MFW and am considering that too. It is just so overwhelming to figure all of this out. I wish I could go to Staples and press the easy button and it would shell out the perfect curriculum for each child. Wouldn't that be wonderful!!! Descisions?? Decisions??:lol:

-Alana

[Aubrey]

Well, I have the ancient SOTW and have been looking at the acitivity guide and the lit suggestions. I looked again at Adventures for MFW and am considering that too. It is just so overwhelming to figure all of this out. I wish I could go to Staples and press the easy button and it would shell out the perfect curriculum for each child. Wouldn't that be wonderful!!! Descisions?? Decisions??:lol:

-Alana

 

We had a flat tire once, around midnight, on a stretch of highway where there was nothing. We'd just loaned our jack to a guy who'd broken it (paid to replace it, but hadn't replaced it). We had 3 dc in the backseat who hadn't eaten in hrs, no cell phone, & I was pg.

 

By the time that fiasco was cleared up, & dh was dumping the old tire into the tired trunk, we heard a noise. "That was easy!"

 

It was his "easy" button, buried under piles of junk in the backseat.

 

To this day, when something really traumatic happens, that darn button shows up & gets bumped. Trust me. You do NOT want to press the easy button!! :lol:

[johnandtinagilbert]

Well, I have the ancient SOTW and have been looking at the acitivity guide and the lit suggestions. I looked again at Adventures for MFW and am considering that too. It is just so overwhelming to figure all of this out. I wish I could go to Staples and press the easy button and it would shell out the perfect curriculum for each child. Wouldn't that be wonderful!!! Descisions?? Decisions??:lol:

-Alana

That would be nice :) Only, I'm sure I'd have to tweak it! lol!

[siloam]

I love your posts Heather, everytime I think of backing out of TOG (which is brand new and sitting in the box still), I come across one of your posts, and I am so drawn to it. To the OP, thank you for posting this. I keep feeling drawn to SL also, but my oldest is in 10th and I just feel TOG is a perfect fit for sooo many reasons for my family. Maybe I just need to throw out my beloved SL catalog!

 

Thank you!

 

I have my days when I think about going a more simple route (like just doing MOH). But then I KNOW I will get restless in a month or so and start adding a little of this, maybe a little of that, I will just end up back at TOG eventually.

 

The problem is me. :D

 

Heather

 

p.s. Though I still have all my SL catalogs back to 2002. I am finally at a point where they aren't tempting anymore either. :)

[siloam]

Heather-- Can you explain what you mean by this? Aren't there read alouds with TOG? Or is it just for non readers? Or is it just that there isn't as much of it so that frees up read aloud time for whatever you want it to be?

 

Thanks for you help.

There are some suggested RA's but not the continuous string of them. And it is perfectly acceptable to never do any of them. Actually I have only used the classic to date where they only have one or two a year. I hear the redesign has more, but not as many as SL.

 

At the LG level TOG is designed to be read to the student. At the UG and up levels TOG is designed to be read by the student.

 

If there is a RA suggestion it will usually be in the LG Literature section (if it is a lit book) or in the LG in-depth section (if it is a history book), or that is where I have seen them to date.

 

Basically it is a different philosophy. That said you can make it more like SL. Right now I read the LG out loud to all my kids, then have the three oldest do their literature independently (would equate to the readers in SL), and my oldest also does additional work at the UG or D level. Works for us.

 

Heather

[bethben]

 

I have my days when I think about going a more simple route (like just doing MOH). But then I KNOW I will get restless in a month or so and start adding a little of this, maybe a little of that, I will just end up back at TOG eventually.

 

The problem is me. :D

 

 

 

This is exactly the reason I went with TOG. I'm too much of a tweaker. I like to have a lot to choose from so that I don't go crazy with all the alternates that I could add to a basic curriculum.

 

Beth

[johnandtinagilbert]

This is exactly the reason I went with TOG. I'm too much of a tweaker. I like to have a lot to choose from so that I don't go crazy with all the alternates that I could add to a basic curriculum.

 

Beth

:iagree: I save time using TOG b/c I don't have to dig and tweak..just tweak!