Need help with a grammar problem. Save the kittens.

[Perry]

What is the rule for pluralizing last names that end in 's'?

 

Let's say the last name is 'Butters', and I want to say that they live in Chicago.

 

"The Butterses live in Chicago" sounds wrong, but "The Butters live in Chicago" is singular.

 

Why does "The Butterses live in Chicago" sound wrong but "The Thomases live in Chicago" sound fine?

 

I realize that I could say "The Butters family lives in Chicago" and avoid the problem, but I'd like to know what's correct. Thanks.

[Mrs Mungo]

http://grammar.quickanddirtytips.com/grammar-greetings.aspx

 

Your instinct is correct, you add -es.

 

eta: Thank you for saving the kittens!!!

[Dawn in OH]

 

"The Butterses live in Chicago" sounds wrong, but "The Butters live in Chicago" is singular.

 

 

It probably sounds wrong because so few people know the rule and either pluralize it incorrectly or use the other option, The Butters family.

[hillfarm]

My frustration with last names doesn't have to do with apostrophes so much as pluralization within the word. For example, if the family's name is Ackerman, I assume a bunch of them would be Ackermans, but that always sounds so funky and I often mentally call a plurality of them the Ackermen!

[Mrs Mungo]

My frustration with last names doesn't have to do with apostrophes so much as pluralization within the word. For example, if the family's name is Ackerman, I assume a bunch of them would be Ackermans, but that always sounds so funky and I often mentally call a plurality of them the Ackermen!

 

If I were in charge of grammar, I would make an exception for Ackermen, that is HILARIOUS!

[bookfiend]

I wonder why it wouldn't be the Butters' live in Chicago?

 

Looking forward to my pluralization lesson....and sorry about the kitten.

[Mrs Mungo]

I wonder why it wouldn't be the Butters' live in Chicago?

 

Looking forward to my pluralization lesson....and sorry about the kitten.

 

Because apostrophes are used to show possession or indicate an omission (as in the contraction "can't"), not to make things plural. You would say "I'm going to the Butters' home for dinner," but you would say "the Butterses live in Chicago."

 

Now, *some* style books would say you should say "the Butters's home," but that usage is falling out of favor. The AP and the Supreme Court (see the link below) agree that it should be "the Butters' home," in that case. So, sometimes, grammar is subjective. HOWEVER, you would NEVER say "the Butters' live in Chicago," that is wrong, wrong, wrong.

 

Some style books use apostrophes for dates, letters or acronyms, others do not (I favor not using one).

 

Some articles and helps:

http://grammar.quickanddirtytips.com/apostrophe-plural-grammar-rules.aspx

 

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/apostrophe (this is the one linked in my sig)

 

http://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/621/01/

 

http://www.docstyles.com/archive/cmscrib.pdf

[Ellie]

What is the rule for pluralizing last names that end in 's'?

It's the same as any other word that ends in /s/ or /z/.

 

Let's say the last name is 'Butters', and I want to say that they live in Chicago.

 

"The Butterses live in Chicago" sounds wrong, but "The Butters live in Chicago" is singular.

"Butterses" is correct.

 

Why does "The Butterses live in Chicago" sound wrong but "The Thomases live in Chicago" sound fine?

Because you're just not used to hearing it said properly.

 

Dare to be correct!:D

[EthiopianFood]

Excellent topic, thank you! :D

[bookfiend]

Because apostrophes are used to show possession or indicate an omission (as in the contraction "can't"), not to make things plural. You would say "I'm going to the Butters' home for dinner," but you would say "the Butterses live in Chicago."

 

Now, *some* style books would say you should say "the Butters's home," but that usage is falling out of favor. The AP and the Supreme Court (see the link below) agree that it should be "the Butters' home," in that case. So, sometimes, grammar is subjective. HOWEVER, you would NEVER say "the Butters' live in Chicago," that is wrong, wrong, wrong.

 

Some style books use apostrophes for dates, letters or acronyms, others do not (I favor not using one).

 

Some articles and helps:

http://grammar.quickanddirtytips.com/apostrophe-plural-grammar-rules.aspx

 

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/apostrophe (this is the one linked in my sig)

 

http://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/621/01/

 

http://www.docstyles.com/archive/cmscrib.pdf

 

 

I tend to get tripped up by the plural, possessive usage when the word already ends in s.

 

So if I understand correctly, all of the members of the Butters family living at their abode in Chicago would become - The Butterses' house is in Chicago.

[Perry]

I tend to get tripped up by the plural, possessive usage when the word already ends in s.

 

So if I understand correctly, all of the members of the Butters family living at their abode in Chicago would become - The Butterses' house is in Chicago.

As I was searching for an explanation for your question, I ran across this:

 

When a family name (a proper noun) is pluralized, we almost always simply add an "s." So we go to visit the Smiths, the Kennedys, the Grays, etc.When a family name ends in s, x, ch, sh, or z, however, we form the plural by added -es, as in the Marches, the Joneses, the Maddoxes, the Bushes, the Rodriguezes. Do not form a family name plural by using an apostrophe; that device is reserved for creating possessive forms.

When a proper noun ends in an "s" with a hard "z" sound, we don't add any ending to form the plural: "The Chambers are coming to dinner" (not the Chamberses); "The Hodges used to live here" (not the Hodgeses). There are exceptions even to this: we say "The Joneses are coming over," and we'd probably write "The Stevenses are coming, too." A modest proposal: women whose last names end in "s" (pronounced "z") should marry and take the names of men whose last names do not end with that sound, and eventually this problem will disappear.

 

I thought I had learned that there was an exception to this once.

 

I think it's the 'ers' at the end of the name that makes it sound wrong.

Walterses

Turnerses

Meyerses

 

They all sound bad.

 

But

Adamses

Williamses

Robertses

all sound okay to me.

 

Anyway, this is what that site says about possessives:

When we want the possessive of a pluralized family name, we pluralize first and then simply make the name possessive with the use of an apostrophe. Thus, we might travel in the Smiths' car when we visit the Joneses (members of the Jones family) at the Joneses' home. When the last name ends in a hard "z" sound, we usually don't add an "s" or the "-es" and simply add the apostrophe: "the Chambers' new baby."

[Ellie]

I tend to get tripped up by the plural, possessive usage when the word already ends in s.

To trip you up some more, it isn't exactly words which end in -s. It's words that end with s, z, and ch/tch...or, even more specifically, the *sounds* of /s/, /z/, and /ch/. :D

 

So if I understand correctly, all of the members of the Butters family living at their abode in Chicago would become - The Butterses' house is in Chicago.

:thumbup:

You're actually adding -es to the word. It's the same as glass/glasses. Butters/Butterses.

 

I could play with your head a little more and point out that you could say "The Butters house is in Chicago." It just would never, ever be "The Butters' are coming over for dinner."

[Oak Knoll Mom]

We have one of those last names that end in a hard z sound that no one knows how to pluralize or make possessive. Going along with your example, let's say our last name is Butters. I can't begin to tell you how many times we've been referred to in writing as "The Butter's." :001_huh: No, dear friend, that s is part of our name.

[kokotg]

Now, *some* style books would say you should say "the Butters's home," but that usage is falling out of favor. The AP and the Supreme Court (see the link below) agree that it should be "the Butters' home," in that case. So, sometimes, grammar is subjective. HOWEVER, you would NEVER say "the Butters' live in Chicago," that is wrong, wrong, wrong.

 

 

 

 

Oh, I'm so glad to hear things are headed in that direction. As the mother of a Gus, I find just adding an apostrophe far more aesthetically pleasing. I was, in fact, willing to be unfashionable about it if it came to that.

[Ellie]

We have one of those last names that end in a hard z sound that no one knows how to pluralize or make possessive. Going along with your example, let's say our last name is Butters. I can't begin to tell you how many times we've been referred to in writing as "The Butter's." :001_huh: No, dear friend, that s is part of our name.

I feel your pain.

 

Our last name doesn't have the -s. Let's say our last name is Butter when Butters is more common. No one knows how to make it plural or possessive, either, not to mention people *hearing* the -s even when I do not say it.

[Harriet Vane]

Looks like your question has been answered, but I wanted to give you points for a clever thread title--love it! :)

[elegantlion]

Thanks to this thread title, I had a weird dream about sick kittens last night. :lol::lol:

[Mrs Mungo]

I tend to get tripped up by the plural, possessive usage when the word already ends in s.

 

So if I understand correctly, all of the members of the Butters family living at their abode in Chicago would become - The Butterses' house is in Chicago.

 

It depends upon the style guide, language is fluid. ;) Some style guides say you would use "Butterses' home," but most of them would have you say "Butters' home." If you look back at my links, the SCOTUS agrees with the latter. :D I just have to re-point that out, because I think it's funny.

[bookfiend]

I appreciate the links and have marked a few of them for referrence whenever those pesky plural posessives pop up. For now, I'm just glad I don't know anyone named Butters. :D

[Mrs Mungo]

I appreciate the links and have marked a few of them for referrence whenever those pesky plural posessives pop up. For now, I'm just glad I don't know anyone named Butters. :D

 

Personally? I re-word sentences all the time to avoid things that I think are awkward. So, I would say-"the Butters family lives in Chicago." My maiden name ends with "s," so maybe I've thought about it more. :lol: