Back to dual enrollment (CC vs. univ), AP, etc.

[Jane in NC]

To the BTDT crowd, particularly those of you who have seniors:

 

If your student is attending or will attend an out of state college, is that school recognizing credits from your community college? Would you recommend a university over a CC for students who will attend out of state colleges or do you suggest AP?

 

Most of the homeschoolers in my area do dual enrollment at the CC which is recognized at the time of transfer to NC's public universities. But most homeschoolers in my area do not leave the state to attend college.

 

Any advice is most appreciated as we plan my son's junior year.

 

Warm regards to all,

Jane

[Guest Virginia Dawn]

If you want the *credits* recognized by an out of state school that's another story. Each college has its own policies. If you just want to get accepted to a particular school the cc college classes seem to carry the same academic weight as Subject tests and AP tests, but only if you make a 3.0 or better.

 

Here is what I have noticed, If you want to major in a particular subject, let's say economics, then the college is not likely to accept cc college credit for economics because they want you to take their economics classes. However, they will be more likely to take credit for a first year history, science, or foreign language. But the fact that you can make an A in a college economics course will look good.

 

Even in-state, getting *credit* for all community classes is iffy. It is a huge credibility factor for homeschoolers though. I also think the classroom experience and freedom to be responsible for his own education was a good proving ground for my son.

[Jane in NC]

If you want the *credits* recognized by an out of state school that's another story. Each college has its own policies. If you just want to get accepted to a particular school the cc college classes seem to carry the same academic weight as Subject tests and AP tests, but only if you make a 3.0 or better.

 

 

 

Thank you--this was my suspicion but I had hoped to hear someone who has been through the process articulate this!

 

Jane

[threetreasurs]

My son attends Boston College and all his CC credits were accepted - we live in MI.

 

When we talked with the Premed adviser, we were told that some Med schools don't like CC credit for Calculus. My son also took the AP test just to cover our bases. We were also told that the grades from CC will be factored in if/when he applies to Med school since they are college classes. Fortunately, he did well but I had not thought of that before I signed him up.:001_huh:

[Gwen in VA]

I guess whether or not cc classes are worthwhile depends on 1) the college; 2) Your motive for taking cc classes.

 

Some colleges do give credit; some don't.

 

The college dd attends gives NO credit for cc classes whatsoever. However, cc classes might still make your child look better to the college so the cc classes might be worth taking.

 

My younger son doesn't test as well as his older siblings, so while he will do some AP's, he will also do some cc classes as well. We are not expecting he will get any college credit for the cc classes, but if they help him get in to the college he wants to attend, they will be worth the extra $$.

[Robin in Tx]

No direct experience here, but Debra Bell was the keynote at our convention last summer and she said that AP is viewed as much more prestigious than community college. Working with juniors and seniors, and getting them ready for college is her "specialty", so I do think she knows what she's talking about. I never knew this before. It's had me rethinking our long range plans...

 

HTH,

Robin

[Gwen in VA]

Absolutely. AP's are definitely more presitigious.

 

Dd received 15 credits from various AP's and fulfilled almost every distribution requirement in the process; she would have received NOTHING had she taken cc classes instead!

 

To praphrase the scarecrow from the Wizard of Oz --

 

HOW you navigate through high school depends on WHERE you want to go!

[Brenda in MA]

I'm wondering how the AP scores are reported to the colleges since the AP tests are administered through the College Board (the SAT folks). When you have an SAT score report sent to a college, does that report also include any AP tests your child has taken? If so, poor AP scores might be a liability in the college admissions process.

 

Also -- I would assume that all AP scores received by a student are reported when a score report is ordered. I wonder how a college would look upon an AP score report with a 4 or 5 in some subject areas and lower scores in other subject areas? The AP tests seem pretty high-stakes to me unless you are fairly confident that your child will score well.

 

I've personally decided against AP tests for my 11th grade son. He's taking some AP level courses and doing well, but he does not tend to test well in time-pressure situations that cover lots & lots of material.

 

I think the AP program is a great opportunity for some students, but it is really not realistic of how a college-level course would be graded. A college student taking a 1 semester course would have several exams and possibly a mid-term and final as a basis for their grade for a course that is about 4 months in duration. The AP exams are a single two to three-hour exam that covers nine months of material in a single sitting.

 

If you think your child would do well with the AP format -- go for it, but I don't think it's the best route for all college-bound students. My son is using on-line courses and will take cc courses his senior year to show his ability to work at the college level.

 

I also agree with what Virgina Dawn said. If you hope to transfer cc credits, sometimes it's better to take courses outside of your eventual major at the cc. The couple of colleges we've look into so far will accept a limited number of transfer credits from cc.

 

HTH,

Brenda

[SallyMac]

don't you think Debra Bell would be a little biased about AP classes? After all, she teaches AP English for PA Homeschoolers. Mind you I have the utmost respect for Debra Bell. Waaaaay back when I first started homeschooling I read one of her books and followed much of her advice, and my ds has completed an AP class with PA Homeschoolers which was one of the greatest educational experiences he has had to date. But in defense of CC, ds also takes CC classes, and they are real college experiences which demonstrate that your dc can handle college life. I really think universities take that into consideration as well. Also, many students simply cannot afford to do the first two years at a 4 yr university, but can afford CC. I know things were different in the 1980's, but I completed my first two years at a CC and received several scholarships (w/a very high GPA but low SAT scores) to out-of-state private universities including UNC, NYU, and Wm & Mary which only accepted 10% of the out-of-state transfer applicants. Universities weigh other factors in besides source of education. Unless things have changed that dramatically, I don't see why out-of-state universities wouldn't accept college credits earned through a CC.

[Miss Marple]

I think that, in most cases, university credits are more "valuable" than CC credits. My son's credits (both university and cc) are transferring without any trouble in-state and appeared to transfer to many out of state schools. The places where they would not transfer were colleges with specific course tracks. For example, University of Dallas would not give credit because they have a standard sequence that the students follow and the course content is quite different from the usual state university type of courses. The credits would only be useful as satisfying the high school requirements.

 

We found that the community college courses tended to have more hand-holding. I believe there is a wide range of rigor amongst community colleges. From what I've heard, our community college has a good reputation and the courses are considered about as rigorous as an AP course. Our university, however, appears to expect the student to succeed or fail on his own merits (less hand-holding).

 

One aspect worth noting is that the student's standardized test scores will validate the "rigor" of the dual-enrollment course. Most of the universities we looked at were more concerned with the scores than where the credits came from.

 

Two admission counselors told us that the lack of AP would not affect my son because he has proven for the past 2 years that he can compete in the university system (35 hours with 4.0). I'm sure that this advice could vary from university to university, though.

 

If your son has a goal of a certain university, definitely check with an admission counselor. My son didn't have any specific school in mind when he was dually enrolled.

[Gwen in VA]

Comparing cc classes with "real" 4-year college classes --

 

and this is just OUR experience --

 

Dd took calculus 1 at William & Mary. Ds took it through the local community college.

 

1) Both classes used texts by the same author, but the W&M class used the more "advanced" version; the cc class used the easier version.

 

2) The cc class stuck very much to the rote problems; none of the challenging problems at the end of the section were assigned. The W&M class assigned the more difficult problems (in the more challenging text).

 

3) Dd and ds are VERY similar in math ability, but dd had to work reasonably hard for her A; ds cruised through doing about an hour a week of homework.

 

There was a difference in the classes.

 

Ds is now taking calculus 2 at William and Mary because we realized that otherwise he would probably have to retake calcululs 1 in college. The first few weeks of the calculus 2 class were quite difficult for him because the W&M class had covered the calc 1 topics in greater depth so he had to go back and relearn some things.

 

There are undoubtedly four-year colleges where the classes offered are no more difficult than cc classes, but there are definitely colleges where the introductory classes are significantly harder than cc classes.

 

Which route you go (AP or cc) should depend heavily on the college your child intends to go to!

[Nan in Mass]

We spoke to an out of state admissions person and he said that my son's CC classes would probably tranfer to any state school. I don't know how knowledgable about this he is, but I thought I'd pass it along. The in state prestigious school admissions person we spoke to said she thought highly of CC classes, and that my son should take 3 or 4 academic ones to validate his homeschool transcript. She said that this would indeed offset the bad SAT scores I was worried my son would receive (since he works slowly). We are not trying to transfer his credits to college, so I didn't ask. The out of state person volenteered the information when I described what sort of documentation my son would have when he applied. (I was a bit worried about a non-graded transcript.)

 

Both AP classes and CC/uni classes are somewhat risky, since any bad grades will have to be reported to the colleges. You sign something saying that you've submitted transcripts for all previous college course work when you fill out the application. You also (at least my son had to) sign something saying that you've registered for the draft, have submitted all the results from any SAT tests you've ever taken, never been expelled, that all the submitted info is correct and complete, that you haven't been arrested, and that you've notified the college of all known disabilities. I think the learning disabilities thing came after my son accepted the offer of admission, not before. It explained that the college needed to make sure that any accommodations were in place when he arrived. I can see how they'd want to make sure they signed up the appropriate number of tutors, wheel-chair accessable dorm rooms, sign language interpreters and had appropriate menu choices or whatever in needed.

 

I also want to point out that of the three choices, AP, CC, and uni, CC classes are somewhat unique. They alone of the three don't assume that the student has had lots of prior school experience. Because many of the students are immigrants, the prof's are more careful about explaining how college classes work, what the expectations are, more careful about making sure everyone understood the directions, more careful about the wording of questions, etc., since not everyone is used to the implications behind US questions and directions. The same sorts of things trip up homeschoolers, especially ones that haven't had lots of experience learning out of textbooks or in classroom situations. They are better at explaining things like when it says "sponge", it means a dry one, and when it says "short answer", it means yah many sentences. If your child hasn't had lots of experience in the classroom, CC classes can act as a bridge between homeschool and college or AP classes.

 

-Nan

[Jane in NC]

 

Which route you go (AP or cc) should depend heavily on the college your child intends to go to!

 

 

If your son has a goal of a certain university, definitely check with an admission counselor. My son didn't have any specific school in mind when he was dually enrolled.

 

My son has no idea what university he wishes to attend, let alone his major. At this point he says that he wants to go out of state to a small school. It's a start! He is in 10th grade now so I need to have the bases covered.

 

Jane

[ddandgirls]

I'm not in this position yet, but my DH works with colleges so I will throw my 2 cents in.

 

I would agree with the last post. If your child has any interest in a handful of schools I would check their website and make an appointment (in person or over the phone) with the admissions advisor. They will tell you exactly what they will accept and can help you plan out your last two years. Preferably this could be done in 9th grade, but obviously many students don't have any idea where they want to go at that age.

 

You should also check the college board website in the AP section. If you type in the school name it will take you to a link to the school and they will tell you which AP test they accept and what score you must get. The site will also tell you how the scores are sent.

 

Each individual school's website will also tell you what CC classes will count for different classes at their schools. As mentioned some schools (such as Duke) accept few CC or AP classes for college credit because they want you to take it in their school, but many schools do have this already outlined and most of the info is on their website.

 

HTH:001_smile:

 

D-

[Kareni]

I'm wondering how the AP scores are reported to the colleges since the AP tests are administered through the College Board (the SAT folks). When you have an SAT score report sent to a college, does that report also include any AP tests your child has taken?

 

 

My understanding is that SAT score reports include only information on the SAT Reasoning and SAT Subject tests. AP scores must be sent separately.

 

Regards,

Kareni

[Nan in Mass]

Do you need the credits to transfer? If you do, then AP classes might be safer, but if you don't, then you are just down to the prestige issue. I, too, have heard that AP classes carry more prestige than CC classes, but only from non-college sources. If you can live with the lesser prestige of CC classes, then you are free to do whichever is more convenient.

-Nan

[Halftime Hope]

and this is just OUR experience --

 

 

 

 

Lori M and I have had experiences with our kids taking both CC and 4 yr univ classes. Our experience was just the opposite of Gwen's kids, in that a particular CC class was more rigorous than the comparable course at a 4 year university. I mention this to make the point that it is highly variable, and you may never know quite what you are getting.

 

*In general*, I agree with CC being better as a bridge experience. I also agree, again in general, with the 4 yr school being better if you want to transfer courses for credit. It seems that most 4 year schools are considered to be more credible than CC.

 

Finally, I haven't seen anyone mention that often schools accept the transfered credits but do not figure those courses' grades into the GPA at the new school. This can hurt a kid who needs the "easier" course grades to bolster a GPA. For example, if a kid is in engineering, his cousework in core curriculum can help bring up his GPA when added to the harder upper-level maths and sciences, so that he can maintain a certain GPA and renew scholarships.

 

I realize that I just added a new level of complexity to the decision criteria, and I apologize for not making it easier!

 

Best wishes!

[Barb_]

I, too, have heard that AP classes carry more prestige than CC classes, but only from non-college sources. If you can live with the lesser prestige of CC classes, then you are free to do whichever is more convenient.

-Nan

 

We went to a college fair back about 4 years ago, and 100% of the college admissions people we asked told us they prefer to see AP over community college. They said it was because AP is a known quantity and quality at community colleges can vary so widely. I got the feeling there was a snooty-factor as well. That said, we went with community college because after weighing costs as well as pros and cons, the CC classes came out ahead. Both in PA and in AZ, with one notable exception, the courses Meg took were demanding and more interesting than if she had taking them online as AP. She was really craving the discussion and interaction that a really good instructor can provide and that was worth taking our chances and letting the chips fall.

 

Barb

[Beth in OH]

This is a great post, Brenda. I think you very thoroughly outline the risks of AP courses. Between my two oldest dd's, we will have 4 AP tests under our belt this spring. The courses, and the tests, have lost their luster for me. I'm not sure we will do any AP's in the future.

 

My senior self-studied AP Euro History (score: 3) and US History (score: 2) during her grade 10 and 11 years. I think our materials were up to par, but dd is simply not highly motivated academically. It requires a lot of drive and self-motivation to succeed on these tests when working by oneself. For college apps, I did not report the scores or designate the courses as AP. She did a good job of covering high school level history, and I graded her accordingly.

 

This year, my senior is doing AP English Lit with PA Homeschoolers. She also took Introductory Sociology (B+) and Introductory Psychology (A) at The Ohio State University. The AP course is far more work than the college classes were, and the whole credit thing comes down to one test. Moreover, dd was very motivated by OSU's classroom setting, decent professors, and the pressure of grades affecting her college transcript. For this dd, the college experience vastly surpassed any AP. It was real college--regular assignments; a manageable amount of reading and writing; normal test prep; and two midterms, a paper, and a final.

 

My second dd is taking AP Biology through PA Homeschoolers. My university Biology course was much less work than what she's done. She has learned a lot, though (probably more than I did). Despite all of the work, though, she may not perform well on the AP test. Whether she'll continue with AP or begin university courses will be up to her. I would try to steer her toward OSU, though. I think it's a better use of her time, and like her older sister, I think she would really enjoy the classroom. For us, AP tends to produce burnout.

[Robin in Tx]

don't you think Debra Bell would be a little biased about AP classes?

 

I really don't think so. There is no way whatsoever she could offer AP classes to the children of each of the several hundred people sitting in that auditorium that day.

 

It was a session on college prep. She didn't say that CC was bad or that you shouldn't do it, she just went down the list of ways to look good on your application and/or get some of your freshman credits out of the way in advance, and she discussed AP, CC and things like CLEP exams. I think she was being completely honest when she said that AP is usually considered more prestigious than CC. Not that CC isn't accepted or isn't impressive.... just not as much so. She even said that often CC courses are not accepted for credit, but they do demonstrate the student's ability to work successfully in a college setting, which is nothing to sneeze at. She didn't say not to do CC or that it wasn't valuable. Just making a side by side comparison

 

I am hearing more and more around here that CC courses aren't always transferring... even our local cc says to check with your University to make sure your courses will transfer. I got my first two years at local cc, and I'm a big supporter of it... but depending on what you want to do and where you want to go, it isn't always embraced. Fortunately, our local cc district has worked out agreements with state universities to guarantee smooth transition, but that wasn't always the case. Engineering schools wouldn't accept the cc calculus courses, for example.

 

Robin

[kathleen]

This year, my senior is doing AP English Lit with PA Homeschoolers.

 

Hey, just curious Beth. My son is taking AP English Lit with PA Homeschoolers this year, too. Any chance your daughter is in Mrs. Green's class? I noticed there is one girl in the class from Ohio.

[Janet in WA]

No direct experience here, but Debra Bell was the keynote at our convention last summer and she said that AP is viewed as much more prestigious than community college. Working with juniors and seniors, and getting them ready for college is her "specialty", so I do think she knows what she's talking about. I never knew this before. It's had me rethinking our long range plans...

 

HTH,

Robin

Hmm...it would seem that the universities we contacted weren't following Debra Bell's advice. They said they did not view AP more favorably than cc credits. This wouldn't be the first time I thought Debra Bell's experience might be a bit limited for the advice she was offering.

 

ETA: That is not to say that universities view AP and cc credits as amounting to the same thing. But both say something positive about the student's academic experience. When universities are awarding placement to applicants, they are looking for students who have the best odds of success in their institution. CC credits tell them that the student has shown an ability to handle a college classroom.

[Janet in WA]

One benefit to cc classes over AP that hasn't been mentioned here (that I've noticed anyway) is that they give the student college classroom experience while still at home. We found that as valuable for our sons as application prestige or even transfer credits.

[Robin in Tx]

Barb, this is exactlywhat Debra was saying... that there is an unknown due to lack of standardization at the CC level. However, as you said, sometimes the cc experience can be superior. There are a couple of instructors at our local cc that I pray are still then when my dd is old enough... I'd enroll her in their classes over AP any day, just for the experience, and regardless of how prestigious it did or didn't look.

 

Robin

[Robin in Tx]

You know, I think that all of our experiences are quite limited and I suppose that's one of the problems of getting information from a forum like this. Probably the best thing would be to check specifically with one's potential universities for their advice.

 

Your comment about Debra is interesting. I always thought she was pretty well informed, but maybe that isn't the case. It wouldn't be the first time I've been snookered :). I'd be interested to know when else you've doubted her advice, just to know what sort of things I should be on the lookout for (I took a lot of notes at her sessions - it all sure "felt" like good advice! LOL I would go so far to say that she was probably second only to SWB in my past ten years of attending conferences, which caught me by surprise since I didn't care for her book much).

 

Robin

[Janet in WA]

You know, I think that all of our experiences are quite limited and I suppose that's one of the problems of getting information from a forum like this. Probably the best thing would be to check specifically with one's potential universities for their advice.

 

Your comment about Debra is interesting. I always thought she was pretty well informed, but maybe that isn't the case. It wouldn't be the first time I've been snookered :). I'd be interested to know when else you've doubted her advice, just to know what sort of things I should be on the lookout for (I took a lot of notes at her sessions - it all sure "felt" like good advice! LOL I would go so far to say that she was probably second only to SWB in my past ten years of attending conferences, which caught me by surprise since I didn't care for her book much).

 

Robin

I'd rather not get into any Debra Bell bashing. Her website is quite limited now, but in past years, she sold lots of curriculum items, and gave a lot of advice about them. I found some of her advice not particularly knowledgable (though she certainly sounded authoritative), particularly in the area of math (when she admitted that she had to hire a tutor for her sons to get them through Jacobs Algebra).

 

You're right, all of our knowledge is limited. That's why I wouldn't say that NO universities agree with Mrs. Bell -- just that our own experience would show that she can't speak for all universities.

[Karen in CO]

My son is a senior this year and has been taking cc classes for two year (7 completed and taking three this semester). We applied to one in-state and two out of state universities. He was accepted at all three. The two out of state schools accepted all of his credits. The in-state school didn't accept two of them. For in-state, they provide a list of classes that are guaranteed to transfer in-state. I know that some schools don't accept any credits for classes taken as dual enrollment. He took classes primarily to provide for things like chemistry and Japanese that we couldn't reasonably do at home.

 

hth

[Robin in Tx]

I apologize, Janet... I didn't intend to put you on the spot, making you feel compelled to criticize Debra Bell. Since I had listened closely to her suggestions, I just wanted to know in what areas her experience might be limited (so I'd know when to be a little more critical of her advice). I was looking for fair criticism, not bashing... I'm really sorry if it came across otherwise. Thanks for sharing your experience... you are right and I agree with you.

 

Robin

[Beth in OH]

Yes, that's her.

[Robin in Tx]

Beth, to you and everyone else who has shared their experience, I just want to say thank you SO much for taking the time. We'll be facing this decision in a couple of years and I apparently haven't had the whole picture. All these varying comments have been so helpful! Thanks to all of you!

 

In a couple of years I'll be asking whether or not community college dual credit courses hurt scholarship opportunities. If I try to think about that now, my head will explode :).

 

Robin

[Robin in Tx]

Jane, thank you for asking this question and getting the conversation started. I'd say thank you to everyone who responded to let them know how much I appreciate them as well, but then I would look like an obnoxious thread hog (I'm probably dangerously on the edge even now :)).

 

I have gotten a LOT out of this thread. Thanks to everyone!

 

Roboin

[Jane in NC]

Jane, thank you for asking this question and getting the conversation started. I'd say thank you to everyone who responded to let them know how much I appreciate them as well, but then I would look like an obnoxious thread hog (I'm probably dangerously on the edge even now :)).

 

I have gotten a LOT out of this thread. Thanks to everyone!

 

Roboin

 

I too am very grateful for all of the responses from the Hive Mommas. One of the things that I am finding is that requirements and recommendations are not static. These threads with recent experiences are great!

 

Thanks all!

Jane

[Janet in WA]

I apologize, Janet... I didn't intend to put you on the spot, making you feel compelled to criticize Debra Bell. Since I had listened closely to her suggestions, I just wanted to know in what areas her experience might be limited (so I'd know when to be a little more critical of her advice). I was looking for fair criticism, not bashing... I'm really sorry if it came across otherwise. Thanks for sharing your experience... you are right and I agree with you.

 

Robin

Oh Robin! I didn't think you put me on the spot -- I put myself there. It's just that engaging in any real criticism of a particular individual feels like bashing to me. You know, I never found a homeschooling "expert" whose advice I didn't find questionable here and there. For example, you will hear from the "experts" that transcripts must be done a certain way (as in the popular "Transcript Bootcamp"). The truth is, there are almost as many different "right" ways to do a transcript as there are homeschoolers who have graduated children.

 

The best comment I can make is -- don't assume that any homeschooling "expert" is really as much of an authority as they seem to be. I'd at least see what many different experts have to say on any given topic. There really are some pretty good experts right here! At least we think we are.:)

[Robin in Tx]

 

I think you are right.

 

Except when it comes to SWB :).

 

Anyone who has graduated out her students is an expert in my mind, and I'm always thankful for the great advice given here (from the REAL experts such as yourself!)

 

Robin

[Barb_]

In a couple of years I'll be asking whether or not community college dual credit courses hurt scholarship opportunities. If I try to think about that now, my head will explode :).

 

Robin

 

Hurt? No. Helped? Certainly.

 

:leaving: Running away and ducking bits of Robin's brain. :ack2:

 

Barb

[Robin in Tx]

Brain still intact... for the moment... I've heard cc transfer credits disqualify you as an entering freshman, and that in and of itself disqualifies you from some scholarships. HAve I heard that wrong, too? ACK!!!!

 

Robin

[Barb_]

Brain still intact... for the moment... I've heard cc transfer credits disqualify you as an entering freshman, and that in and of itself disqualifies you from some scholarships. HAve I heard that wrong, too? ACK!!!!

 

Robin

 

No, no. There is always the outside exception to prove the rule, but all the colleges we've ever spoken to said they would look at her as an incoming freshman for financial aid and housing purposes, no matter how many credits, *as long as they were take before she officially graduated*. Then once she is admitted, they would look at her credits to see what transfers and she could be bumped up to Sophomore or Junior status as a result. But this would not prevent her from eligibility for Freshman scholarships.

 

As usual, the best course of action is to contact the individual colleges, but our problem was, Meghan was ready to begin college level work at 14 and was in no way ready to decide (or even really begin to think seriously about) where she would ultimately wind up for her degree. So we took our chances and everything worked out.

 

Barb

[Janet in WA]

Brain still intact... for the moment... I've heard cc transfer credits disqualify you as an entering freshman, and that in and of itself disqualifies you from some scholarships. HAve I heard that wrong, too? ACK!!!!

 

Robin

It really depends. WA has a dual enrollment program, and pretty much all colleges in WA consider an applicant who graduates from a WA high school with dual-enrollment credits (even an AA degree) to be applying as freshmen. However, that was not true for colleges we looked at outside of WA. Most mentioned a limit on the college credits an applicant might have to apply with freshman status. And yes, this would limit some scholarship opportunities.

[Nan in Mass]

Do you happen to remember? With my older son, scholarships are probably out of the question and he absolutely definately needed that CC bridge, so I haven't worried, but I wonder about my younger one. He'll have more credits, probably, and may have more chance at a scholarship, if the freshman thing doesn't get in the way. Not that we'll have much choice about those CC classes. My youngest wants to take all the programming classes available, and I want him to take the sciences, math, comp, and drawing. I'm not sure I want either of them graduating from college and going into the workforce early. Lots to think about, I guess.

-Nan

[Christine]

This is slightly off. . .

 

I went to 3 different colleges / universitys (never a CC) -- because we are military and had to move alot.

 

I had to take speech class 3 different times! As no one would accept the other's credit. Part of it was timeline. (The first college required it of all freshmans; the second wouldn't consider it till you were a sophmore.) Another was due to the change from (can you believe it?) a semester system to a quarter system!

 

That's the one class that stands out in my mind, but I know there are others. . .(psychology comes to mind).

 

Here the majority of CCs "feed" directly into the University system. However, if you go to a University out of state, it's a whole different ball game.

 

I have been told (don't know from first hand experience), that should you do 2 years at a CC, and actually pay the $ for the 2 year AA degree (as opposed to just finishing the 2 years, and moving on); that it makes your CC courses more "valid". . .I know, it sounds "hokey", but that's what I've been told (and not by CC reps).

[Janet in WA]

I don't remember exactly what the limits were at that time. But the University of Oregon was one school we looked at. I just checked their website for their current requirements. They state that applicants who have completed 35 or fewer transferable quarter credits (23 semester credits), completed either during or after high school, apply as freshmen. Applicants with more transferable credits apply as transfer students. I can't say for sure how this currently affects scholarship opportunities at U of O, but at the time that we were considering U of O, there were scholarships that were not available to transfer students (including students who earned too many transfer credits through WA's dual enrollment program). Anticipation of applying to Oregon colleges was one reason many WA state high school students chose programs like IB rather than dual enrollment.

 

Note that at U of O, having enough dual enrollment credits to be considered a transfer student can work to a homeschooler's advantage. That's because they do not need to meet the requirements for homeschoolers applying as freshmen (minimum SAT/ACT scores plus SAT II subject test scores) which are more rigorous than those for applicants who graduate from accredited high schools.

 

The University of Idaho, on the other hand, considers only college credits earned after high school graduation when determining the status of an applicant. (Their limit is 14 semester credits, by the way.)

 

It's worthwhile investigating all the varying admissions requirements for the universities your child may want to attend so that you can make choices that will be to the student's best advantage.

 

ETA: Oregon State University's cutoff for freshman/transfer status is 24 semester/36 quarter credits (and like U of O, no consderation given to when these credits were earned relative to high school graduation).

[Miss Marple]

This is our experience, too. All the colleges we looked at considered my son a "first time college student". This allowed him to compete for ALL scholarships. In one case, he was considered a sophomore for the purpose of assigning housing - a definite bonus!

 

I have encountered this idea (that credits can cause one to *not* be a freshman) among many fellow homeschoolers. Most of these ladies have been homeschooling for years and it seems that this information was given out years ago and is still making the rounds. It may be that the rules have changed over time.

 

But every college we looked at, whether just online or talked to in person, our son was considered a first time college student.

[HSKLNG]

Your delema is what I am trying to avoid with my dd. We are military too, overseas. We do not know where we are going next and we still have about 1.5 or 2 yrs here. My dd is not interested in any particular university and refuses to go to college away from us nor attending a classroom setting (for now, teens change their mind):confused:.

 

I was thinking on CLEP, but read that those are too easy, and I still do not know if the military will let my dd take the test on base, have not checked that yet...too early, I think:glare:.

 

So, on base of your experience, what would be your recommendation in having her taking courses that would be "generally" accepted anywhere?

 

If at least we knew where we heading in couple years, it would be a little easier....I think:glare:.

 

Thanks for your time in reading my rambling and for any tips, ideas or advice that you can provide to ease our way up to HS completion:001_smile:.

[Christine]

Christine, could you help?

 

Wow, don't know that I've ever been singled out like that before. . .

 

Since you are talking from a military standpoint, which has it's own hurdles / benefits (not necessarily related to this thread), I think I'm going to PM you. . .Is that okay?

[Nan in Mass]

Hmm... My children will be well over this, I think. Not that I think we'll change what we are doing, but something to be aware of, I guess. Thank you!

[Nan in Mass]

The easy classes my son is taking now at CC will allow him to take a lighter first year, increasing his chances of getting good grades in the harder classes. Just another thing to consider.

-Nan

[Jan P.]

I'm not so sure about that. My ds took dual enrollment classes at the University of SC. He was accepted at four different colleges and universities. I never once heard an academic counselor state that AP grades were better than the university grades he received. I have found that smaller private schools look favorably upon dual enrollment courses, but even if the dc took an AP course they still would not give them college credit for the course because they had their own courses they wanted the student to take.

 

FWIW,

Jan