I think the website requests that you use a test no more than two years old. So, are you wanting her to take a 2nd grade test now so you have it for when she's in 4th? I don't think a K or 1st grade test would count for enrollment, but they aren't too strict since you can also use parent recommendations. I would just use a basic test like a CAT or IOWA or something if you just need it for enrollment in Duke TIP. The purpose of the Explore or SAT is for enrollment in future programs and to compare them to other students and give them a higher ceiling. Unless you need more information than that, like you suspect a learning disability or something, the Explore or SAT is going to allow her to participate in most gifted extra programs. So more expensive testing in the future may or may not be necessary. For us her SAT scores opened a few doors. I had my older DD take the SAT "early", she was 11, but had finished and had a 6th grade test so I signed her up. I called and they said whenever the child has finished 6th and has the scores they can take it. It's at our discretion. In hind sight I sometimes wonder if I should have had her take the SAT later with her age mates. Her scores where fine and she qualified for recognition etc. But, she was taking it with other students who were mostly 12 and 13 years old. She was being compared with other "gifted" students who were a year older. I'm assuming her score would have been higher had I waited another year. It has worked out fine and she qualifies for lots of things, but still leaves me with not having a direct comparison with other gifted kids her age. She was once again younger. So just a thought about when to take it. For searches, etc. where you want a high score I would test on age level and not go up. It depends on what you want the tests for. If I misunderstood your question I apologize.:001_smile: DD

I bought it and it was not necessary because it was just a black screen with the answers to the study guide questions answered almost word for word what was written in the text. I thought it would expand on topics or provide a little more information, but it did not. Only a picture or two once or twice and the answers were given in a rather monotone voice. IMO you really don't need it. My daughter never wanted to watch it. HTH:001_smile: DD

I am using LoF and BA 3A with my daughter (3rd grade) right now. We have used MUS for both our girls. For years I only used MUS, but I am now understanding and enjoying using multiple programs just from the aspect of approaching problems from different perspectives. I like MUS for the initial explanation for my very visual daughters, but LoF makes math fun and AoPS adds in the challenge of approaching difficult problems a different way. She knows most of the general topics in the Beast academy book (as well as much of the LoF early books), but looking from a different perspective has been great. Both of my girls eased through math for years and have a very low tolerance for frustration, so both AoPS and LoF are actually extremely beneficial (even if they don't always think so :tongue_smilie:) When we do hit walls they are not happy and suddenly think they are terrible at math so this is something I'm hoping AoPS will help them work through. Older daughter stopped MUS after Algebra I, and is using LoF, but we have just added the AoPS Intro to Counting and Probability book. I would highly recommend adding that one as well as their Number theory to your future plans. Especially if your child is way "ahead" (whatever that really means) and you have the time and can have the benefit of adding the depth of really understanding working with numbers. I also don't worry about whether or not we are covering certain math topics in one book at the same time as another book. My girls are able to go back and forth and up and down in topics without a problem. The same is true for our other studies. But if I had a child who likes to learn things in a very sequential manner I could see where it would be a problem. Best, DD

This is an interesting thread! I am the husband of "ddandgirls." I have worked within university development (ie, fundraising) for many years. I currently work for a moderately selective private university in the southeast. I deal with "parent, grandparent, alumni and major donor" advocacy on regular basis. That is, employees, alumni, and friends of the university who are advocating for a child, grandchild, or friend of the family to gain admissions to our undergraduate program, law school, or other graduate programs. From my perspective and most individuals who manage admissions for the university (undergraduate and graduate), it is not unreasonable for any one of these constituents to advocate on behalf of a prospective student. Now, there's a difference between "advocate" and "demand." Demands are not received well. However, politely explaining your relationship to the prospective student and asking Admissions to give careful review of a file is not unreasonable. I have been privy to several situations where a prospective student was initially denied admission but then admitted after a follow-up review and consideration. That said, I have also been part of situations where the child/grandchild of a major benefactor has been denied admission because they just were not qualified...this can make for an uncomfortable situation. Think about your potential approach...you might want to check with Admissions staff in the med school regarding who you might want to contact in the undergrad Admissions office. Admissions staff are typically professionals who welcome thoughtful recommendations. Best wishes.

This could be my DD who just turned eight. Driving me crazy. Knows the answers, but freezes if it's too easy. After talking with a woman who may test her for me this summer I believe DD is very visual spatial. So, the facts are boring and too easy and she fatigues at doing a page full of problems because she has to visualize each problem in her head to answer it, but conceptually she knows the answers. She's working at least a year and a half ahead topics wise, but cries to answer simple addition and subtraction problems, especially when pressured. She feels the same as your son about manipulatives. You would think it would help to see it, but she wants to see it in her head. I can show her once with them, but she won't use them over and over. The other issue with math facts is that she remembers everything else in her other subjects after seeing/hearing it once, she is not a drill, repetition student. Does you son have problems remembering other facts or is it just math? After much thought and online research I've decided to forgo the math workbooks and do lots of hands on math with games, cards, number lines and I'm thinking of using IXL online math to see if she would enjoy it. We will do some elementary geometry using magformers, etc. We'll make graphs and measure, and use math. Would he do math if it were in a game setting? My DD used to say she loved math and now she tells everyone she hates math, so math needs to become fun again. We will drill orally instead of on paper and we will play math games. We will move forward conceptually, but with less pencil and paper exercises and fewer problems on a page. If she can do it she doesn't need to do it a million times to prove it. I don't know if any of this would help in your situation, but taking a break from what looks like "typical" math might help. Just a few thoughts from someone in a similar boat. Danielle

Check out Latin for the New Millenium. I think the Bolchazy-Carducci people made some to go with that program? http://ipodius.bolchazy.com/Software/VocabLNM.html They may have others, check out their web site. http://www.bolchazy.com/ D-

Thanks everyone for the encouragement to stick with it. I wasn't so much thinking that it wouldn't work, but whether or not I would find myself adding to it if certain things weren't covered. But, Barbara is very thorough in what she does so I'm sure that it will be fine. Your right, if it ain't broke don't fix it. My daughter is doing well and enjoying it so I can't wait for it to arrive and go through it all myself. From your response, Tina, it sounds like there are some engaging and fun things to do. I have looked at other programs and honestly I don't feel like becoming familiar with another program. I used a number of others with my first dd and I like this the best so far. I just have this bad habit of having to check out all possibilities before deciding on something just in case I have overlooked something. I have to be sure no stone was left unturned. Especially when the program is expensive. So, now I am excited to get it next week. Thanks, Danielle

We have been doing Phonics Road Level 1 with my 6 year old dd (soon to be 7) and I am please with it. We also did Latin Road Vol. 1 and 2 with my now 12 year old and I loved it so I am a fan of Barbara Beers. But, I am trying to decide if I want to use the subsequent levels or switch at this point to another program(s) as we head into more formal grammar, writing, etc. So here's where I need help. I have looked at several threads, printed out the scope and sequence and even read Tina's blog about a day in the life, but I still can't tell how much writing and composition are included and how does she teach it, i.e. 3 point paragraph etc. How much writing is there in each level? Also, how much repetition is there between the levels. Many programs have some review of course, but how much from year to year? And, for the literature. What types of activities are on the framing codes? My daughter initially enjoyed coloring her own books in level 1, but got bored with that after a while. What else to they do besides that in level 2 - 4? Basically, I can't decide if I should continue. I like the idea of all our language arts in one program. For years, with my first dd we used a little of this and that for everything and my second needs more predictability and structure. She is used to this program and likes it so I'd like to stick with it, but I can't tell what's in the subsequent lessons. Anyone who has used it in the higher levels tell me more of what to expect? Thanks, Danielle

I would hope that just because the class was through the extension school it would not be considered "throwing money away." Hopefully my child would be learning something from the class regardless of whether or not the faculty was actually a Harvard professor. And some of the classes are taught by Harvard faculty, at least that's what they state on their website. I also wouldn't say that it doesn't carry any weight with an admissions officer. That is something we cannot prove. If admissions officers want outside classes to corroborate the "Mommy grades" we give at home certainly this would qualify, same as a CC or co-op class. But, is it worth the $900-$2000? Quite possibly not. I must have miscommunicated when I wrote "willing to pay". I just meant we can't all afford certain programs, but even if we could, is that where our family would choose to put our money? I did not mean it in the way I think you understood it. KWIM. There are so many educational and extracurricular options for our children that it can be hard to decide. We all share various opportunities on this board and what works for one family may not work for another. I think the original poster was just trying to share something that might be of interest to others. It is often hard to convey meaning through this type of written communication. All I meant when I posted originally was that I think this is a nice option for some people among the many options available for students.

Thanks ladies for the information and the link to the previous thread. I have some places to start looking now. Danielle

:iagree: It is expensive. However, there are a lot of other programs that are expensive too such as Stanford's EPGY $500 plus per quarter. Duke Tip estudies courses are $800 each for a semester and their weekend scholars programs are $450 for a weekend. There are summer camp experiences across the country that can cost $2000-3500 for three weeks. It's all in what each family is willing to pay for their student to have these educational experiences. I think it's all extremely expensive. Whatever programs my dc participate in we are hoping some of it impresses some admissions officer somewhere whether it's an expensive online course, or volunteering for the Salvation Army. We don't choose programs and activities based on that though. My daughter just thought it would be cool to actually attempt a "Harvard" course whether she ever goes there or any other top school. Danielle

I did not mean to imply that it was an easy way to get in to Harvard in terms of academic rigor or that there was a guarantee of future admission. I just meant it was easier than the hassle of proving yourself against all the other high school students and the testing etc. to get into the regular program when they only have like a 7% acceptance rate. But, if you prove yourself capable by doing well in the courses in the extension school then you show that you are capable of doing Harvard level work. My guess is that a student who was not capable of doing the work would not even bother applying to the regular program. They would struggle to complete the courses and it wouldn't be to their personal benefit. And yes, to get into the other schools as far as grad school then you would have to take GRE's, etc. I didn't mean that just having the extension school on there would be a guaranteed admission to anywhere, but that having Harvard Extension on the diploma did not limit these other people from getting accepted to other grad schools. And if there is a need for more professional work experience on the resume, then it would be the same as many people fresh out of college. Many work for a few years before going back for the grad degree. Danielle

I have not looked at that one. Is there a separate vocabulary program that can stand alone or is it mixed into the language arts as a whole? Danielle

My daughter is an avid reader and so her vocabulary seems quite advanced (IMO), so I wasn't sure that I wanted to do a formal vocabulary program with her. However, as she is beginning to read more advanced books and college level non fiction history books, she is encountering a need to look up more words as she reads. So, should I do a formal vocabulary program? A year or two ago I had her read and learn some of the words in Vocabulary Cartoons that utilize words from the SAT and she at least found them enjoyable. I have looked at Vocabulary from classical roots and was concerned it might be boring (no offense to those that love it) or that she would just be memorizing for the moment, but not really retaining. I always felt that you learn a word best by reading and using it in context, but maybe she just needs to do some memorization as well. She loves words. Loves to write and uses a thesaurus for pleasure. Has always read the dictionary for fun as a child. But, I can see she needs to continue to expand her vocabulary and I'm wondering if we should do it in a more formal way. Anyone use Vocabulary for the High School Student or Vocabulary for the College Bound Student? What is it like, I can't find any sample pages online? Any other recommendations? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Danielle

I found out about the extension school about a month ago from another homeschool mom whose daughter had done a course through them and so I called the school to ask more questions. The woman I spoke with said many students are older professionals, but they do have some high school students and freshman and they have some homeschoolers. Students as young as 11 years old can take courses, which is great since some colleges, including some comnunity colleges, state you must be 16. She did mention that some people will also start at the extension school and then transfer into the main school to finish their degree. So it is a good sort of back door into Harvard if you don't want to go through the difficulty of applying directly into the main school as a high school student. You could do a year or two in the extension school and then transfer in and your final degree/diploma would say Harvard not Harvard extension school. I also think it could be helpful to go to the extension school if you are going to go to grad school at any other college in the future. I think it still looks good to future schools even if it says Extension school on your undergraduate diploma when applying. Harvard extension has a list on their website of grad schools where past extension students have been accepted and it includes several other ivies, or you could go to Harvard's grad school after doing the extension school. I think it is a nice option to know it is there even if they only take a few courses in high school to put on their transcript, just like any other online or distance course, except it says Harvard. My daughter wants to take a course in the next year or two. Just my thoughts. Danielle