Would you refuse a gift that didn't have love behind it?

[jld]

Let's say your parents didn't want to pay for your college, or help you buy a house, or some big expense like that. But other relatives basically started to guilt them into it (Come on, you've got the money; why don't you help? I know your own life was hard, but why don't you try to make it easier for your kids? etc.). Would you accept the gift, even given grudgingly by your parents, or older brother, or whomever? Or would you feel like it's better for them to keep their money, and you'll just find your own way, however meager it may be?

 

I remember reading many years ago about a young woman who got in debt for something (I don't remember what), and some people (maybe relatives, again I don't remember details) sent her money, with notes that said things like, "I can't believe you were stupid enough to get into this situation, but here you go". She returned the money to these people, and eventually pulled herself out of her difficulties. I remember admiring her courage and her belief in her own self worth. I don't know if I would have had her courage.

[Rebecca VA]

I think it depends. Do they really have extra money available, or will this damage this financially? Are they worried about retirement? Do they have hidden issues or past unpleasant experiences (that don't have anything to do with you) concerning money, wanting adult children to make their own way, and so on?

 

Surely you don't mean there's no love between you and your parents. It would be a very rare parent who had no tender feelings for a child. So it seems more likely that the issue is either (1) they have money hang-ups, or (2) they disapprove of something you're doing with your life.

 

If you really need the money, you might want to have an adult-level talk and explore why they are so reluctant to help you. Would they feel more comfortable if you signed a paper promising to pay them back later? That would be an adult thing to do that might ease their fears about throwing the money away or depriving you of the chance to grow up.

 

If they were being absolutely hateful about it, then yes, I'd spurn their offer.

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

I once was in a desperate situation as a young adult and borrowed money from my aunt. She wasn't goaded into doing it by anyone, but it was totally not worth it. She made me listen to a lecture on compounding interest and charged me 4% on the money. You can bet I paid her back as quickly as possible. I would not recommend borrowing or accepting money from someone who is not truly willing to give it. They will make you pay for it in more ways than one.

[Melissa in Australia]

I once was in a desperate situation as a young adult and borrowed money from my aunt. She wasn't goaded into doing it by anyone, but it was totally not worth it. She made me listen to a lecture on compounding interest and charged me 4% on the money. You can bet I paid her back as quickly as possible. I would not recommend borrowing or accepting money from someone who is not truly willing to give it. They will make you pay for it in more ways than one.

sorry I am on the side of your Aunt. you asked her for a loan, she gave one , with interest. why should she give the money to you?

there is nothing like having to pay interest to make a young person sit up and take charge of their money better. if she hadn't charged interest, would you have paid her back as fast?

I know relatives that lent other relatives money and charged interest. I see nothing wrong with it.

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

I didn't have a problem with her charging me interest. It was the attitude behind it. And making me listen to a long lecture, that included charts and graphs, no less. I'm just saying that I wouldn't ever again take money from someone who made me feel so badly about needing it in the first place.

[jld]

I didn't mean this autobiographically, lol. I was thinking about some of the parents on some of the threads who said they just don't believe in helping their kids. I was wondering if their kids would want their help anyway, knowing it truly isn't in their parents' hearts.

[lollie010]

I just had a conversation with my 88 year old grandmother yesterday. I don't remember why it came up, but she said that she has never given a penny to anyone that she expected to get back. If she needed it back then she just would not have given it. I think when giving money to close friends or family that is the way you have to look at it to protect the relationship.

[Melissa in Australia]

I didn't have a problem with her charging me interest. It was the attitude behind it. And making me listen to a long lecture, that included charts and graphs, no less. I'm just saying that I wouldn't ever again take money from someone who made me feel so badly about needing it in the first place.

sorry , I read your post wrong.:001_smile:

[Ester Maria]

Would you accept the gift, even given grudgingly by your parents, or older brother, or whomever? Or would you feel like it's better for them to keep their money, and you'll just find your own way, however meager it may be?

I think it really depends - mostly on what sums of money we're talking about ($1k and $10k are not exactly the same thing, for example) and whether we're talking about your relatives helping you with some disapproval in the air, or we're talking about pure emotional manipulation behind that act, something they're going to bring up and use against you ("remind you" about).

 

I wouldn't set myself to be a subject to emotional manipulation, if I felt that was the case.

 

On the other hand, I can allow disapproval of my life and choice, and I would likely accept help - to an extent - even if I knew my relatives were guilted into it a little and "inspired" to help by somebody else, as long as I felt the situation was clear, and there were no serious resentments in the air or attempts to manipulate me with that gift. However, I would prefer to borrow money than to "get" it, unless there were true and honest intentions behind it (and not guilt), and thus pay it back at some point. Without interest.

 

I would actually be offended if a family member charged me an interest. Of course that other than just paying back that money you would try to squeeze in some additional favor to them, because they were so nice to loan you the money, but to get charged an interest is just... Wow, are we family or what?! You're actually trying to profit from the fact I'm having a hard period in my life?! :confused:

[NanceXToo]

I don't know, but as to another issue brought up, I would NEVER charge a relative "interest" if I lent them money. Yuck. And I absolutely would not expect a family member of mine to ever charge me "interest" if they lent me money.

[katemary63]

I don't know, but as to another issue brought up, I would NEVER charge a relative "interest" if I lent them money. Yuck. And I absolutely would not expect a family member of mine to ever charge me "interest" if they lent me money.

\

 

Oh gosh, I disagree with this. If I loaned or borrowed money from a relative, I would expect to pay or be payed interest. If I were the borrower, I would insist on it. It is just rude to expect them to loan money but not get at least as much as they would be getting if that money were in a bank. Years ago, we borrowed money from my in-laws and we paid interest. I think it's just respectful and shows your not trying to take advantage of them.

[katemary63]

I would never accept a penny given to me begrudgingly by anyone.

[NanceXToo]

I think it's just respectful and shows your not trying to take advantage of them.

 

And on the flip side, I think NOT charging interest of a relative (your own family!!) who is obviously in a tough spot is just respectful and shows you're not trying to take advantage of THEM and their troubles. Maybe some families are just more businesslike about these matters than others but I would never, ever do that to a relative and I would be offended if a relative did that to me.

[ciyates]

Sometimes loaning/giving people money isn't really helping them. That being said we learned to never loan money to people. We have given money to several friends who have needed it over the years. Sometimes it really helped them through the tight spot sometimes it just made the situation worse. I will help my son through life but that doesn't mean i will necessarily be the help he expects. If he can't afford the down payment can he really afford he house?

 

Unless I see him seriously working his way through college we will not pay for it. MY DS has a tendency to have to learn life lessons the hard way.

 

That being said we borrowed 4000 from my parents for once. It was a huge mistake. My mother brought it up every chance she got. It took us 3 months to pay her back (we paid her 4500 as a way of saying thank you). It is something I hope to never have to repeat.

[MamaT]

My parents have helped all three of us girls out at one time or another. They did not charge interest and did not even expect repayment - and no lectures. They did it because they could and they wanted to. I don't even know what they've given my sisters because they never talked about it. I know they helped my sister out during a divorce (because I did too), but they never talked about what they had given anyone.

 

My in-laws, on the other hand, have always kept a notebook with every penny they have ever loaned their kids or grandkids so that it can "be taken out of their inheritance." They also made sure everyone else in the family knew they loaned them money and grumbled about it. They also assumed it gave them some kind of "control" in that person's life. We have never, ever borrowed money from them or asked them for anything.

[jld]

Man, you are smart to stay away from those people, MamaT.

 

It sounds like your own parents are, well, ideal!:)

[EarleneW]

And on the flip side, I think NOT charging interest of a relative (your own family!!) who is obviously in a tough spot is just respectful and shows you're not trying to take advantage of THEM and their troubles. Maybe some families are just more businesslike about these matters than others but I would never, ever do that to a relative and I would be offended if a relative did that to me.

 

I totally agree.

[Impish]

Its never been, and will never be (as far as I can tell) an issue.

 

Neither my parents nor MIL would ever think of lending us money. I'm the black sheep and had children before marriage. Thus, I forfeited any 'help' I might have had coming from my parents.

 

My mind boggles at the idea of MIL loaning us money. I can't imagine the strings and crap that would be attached.

 

So, I guess the answer is 'No'.

[jld]

I think, based on what posters have said, is that relatives charge interest when they really need that interest, whether from you or from a bank. Wealthier people, say maybe the family of Ester Maria, don't need the money, and so wouldn't even think of charging interest.

 

Otoh, dh and I lent my sister money when she was just starting out as a single mom, and I wouldn't hear of accepting interest (and we certainly didn't have a lot of money ourselves -- still don't, lol!) I told dh we shouldn't even plan on getting paid back, that we would have to consider it a gift -- but dsister actually did pay us back. So maybe different people are just different, regardless of their financial status.

[texasmama]

I wouldn't accept money that would cause a rift in the relationship. The relationship will always trump my need for money unless we are going without food or something critical.

[Dobela]

I am kind of in that opening scenario situation now. Dh and I are looking to buy a house and my dad has offered to give us $20K as a gift. My parents are pretty well off. He saved this money with the whole intent of helping us buy a house some day. I also suspect that some of the early seed money came from my grandfathers. However, my mother, while she says she wants to help us and really wants us to take the money, develops such an attitude about money that we absolutely will not accept the money. She makes snarky comments about things she has bought for us that I thought were gifts and attaches too many strings. Just last week she dropped off 2 pairs of shoes she bought for ds (we didn't know she was buying them, and had not asked for any) and then spent the next 3 days complaining that she had no money because she was 'supporting the grandchildren'. :glare: If she had the same attitude my dad has, we would most likely accept the money though. Right now it is a difficult situation because he is very offended that we are not accepting the money and she seems afraid we will.

[jld]

Would you feel comfortable having an honest chat with your mom and dad about it, Dobela? Could you just put everything out on the table? Would that help?

 

As you've described it, it might be wise to refuse the money, but be clear with your dad why you're doing it. If he really insists, then tell him you are going to refer your mom to him every time she makes a disrespectful comment to you.

 

Honestly, I'd probably just refuse the money and tell your dad to will it to you or your kids. Less trouble with your mom that way.

 

And about the gifts -- explain to your mom that a gift is freely given -- no strings attached -- and that you wouldn't want her to be deprived of anything on account of your kids. If she continues making comments that make you feel uncomfortable, just tell her you aren't able to accept her "gifts" anymore.

 

Obviously, this is all jmho. You know what would work best. Good luck!

[aggieamy]

I just had a conversation with my 88 year old grandmother yesterday. I don't remember why it came up, but she said that she has never given a penny to anyone that she expected to get back. If she needed it back then she just would not have given it. I think when giving money to close friends or family that is the way you have to look at it to protect the relationship.

 

This is exactly how I feel. I've loaned my little sister money over the years but I consider it a gift and never expect her to pay me back. She's a single mother and is in college right now. I feel blessed that I'm in a position to help her out occasionally. I wouldn't dream of charging her interest.

[Ester Maria]

If I loaned or borrowed money from a relative, I would expect to pay or be payed interest. If I were the borrower, I would insist on it. It is just rude to expect them to loan money but not get at least as much as they would be getting if that money were in a bank. Years ago, we borrowed money from my in-laws and we paid interest. I think it's just respectful and shows your not trying to take advantage of them.

[bold emphasis mine]

I take this that you openly say that you are willing to make business out of the fact somebody in your family (!) is going through a financially rough period, in other words, that you are willing to exploit their situation for your own profit.

 

When we talk about interest, there is always profit behind - when you loan money and charge interest, you are looking to profit out of the fact you loaned money, you're making a business. That's what banks do, for example - they shamelessly and openly take advantage of the fact people don't know how to deal with finances, or are going through hardships in life and need money. They're profit-driven institutions and aren't really there to help you - even if they do help you, their primary motive for doing so is their own profit out of helping you, since they're a business, after all.

 

And while it's not my place to tell others what to do with their own money, I think they're something very wrong in applying this "business mindset" to your family members and even to your close friends. In those cases, I don't think you should seek to profit out of loaning money - even more so if you're loaning money for understandable needs (emergencies, health, education, building a home, a family with a child on the way in need of money, etc.) as opposed to loaning money for some unnecessary fit or fashion (skiing in Switzerland kind of "needs").

 

Personally I was taught to avoid loaning in the first place - if the sum was small and not causing me any financial distress (say, somebody urgently needs a hundred bucks), I was taught to simply give to a family member or a close friend - and that they would find a way to somehow return the favor, not directly financially.

When it comes to larger sums of money, there's also the element of "not patronizing" the other person so I was taught that it's sometimes more appropriate to loan than to give (especially if it's a person who is not in a situation to "return the favor" of those dimensions - it creates little unspoken tensions of "inequality" in a relationship, so it's better to avoid that and to loan), even if technically it won't cause you any financial distress to give. But again, to loan without interest to your family members, close friends, and members of the tribe (by the way, an interesting fact: it's actually explicitly forbidden to Jews to loan anything to another Jew with interest, and even though I grew up secular, even I grew up familiar with this rule and saw it applied).

 

So, I do think that sometimes it's respectful to loan instead to give - in order not to patronize somebody who cannot return the favor of equal dimensions. But to profit out of somebody's hardship... No way. Just no way for me. :)

 

ETA: Just to prevent any misunderstanding - not attacking you personally or anyone who feels differently about this topic, just putting my thoughts about it on paper / screen.

Edited April 26, 2010 by Ester Maria

[Tokyomarie]

I wouldn't accept money that would cause a rift in the relationship. The relationship will always trump my need for money unless we are going without food or something critical.

 

This is my feeling.

 

We do not loan money to friends or family. Period. If we cannot afford to give it as a straight gift cheerfully we don't give it at all.

 

We give our children college tuition money and there are requirements- things like maintaining at least a 3.0 GPA and making regular & satisfactory progress toward completing a degree. If they choose not to meet the requirements, then the money will not be there and they'll then have to figure it out on their own if they want to continue their education.

 

Any other money we gift is completely without strings.

[LisaKinVA]

My in-laws, on the other hand, have always kept a notebook with every penny they have ever loaned their kids or grandkids so that it can "be taken out of their inheritance." They also made sure everyone else in the family knew they loaned them money and grumbled about it. They also assumed it gave them some kind of "control" in that person's life.

 

When did you marry in to my family???

 

Seriously.

[Dobela]

Would you feel comfortable having an honest chat with your mom and dad about it, Dobela? Could you just put everything out on the table? Would that help?

 

As you've described it, it might be wise to refuse the money, but be clear with your dad why you're doing it. If he really insists, then tell him you are going to refer your mom to him every time she makes a disrespectful comment to you.

 

Honestly, I'd probably just refuse the money and tell your dad to will it to you or your kids. Less trouble with your mom that way.

 

And about the gifts -- explain to your mom that a gift is freely given -- no strings attached -- and that you wouldn't want her to be deprived of anything on account of your kids. If she continues making comments that make you feel uncomfortable, just tell her you aren't able to accept her "gifts" anymore.

 

Obviously, this is all jmho. You know what would work best. Good luck!

It is all on the table. I made honesty with them a resolution a long time ago. And as long as I am honest, it helps maintain boundaries. She has since been more careful with her words and tone since we had a big discussion/arguments about her attitude around Thanksgiving, but we won't be accepting the money. It has been so ugly at points that I have repeatedly requested that any money he has go to her and her alone in the will and after that it all needs to be donated to a favorite charity or something instead of even coming to my kids. (that is a whole other issue - my mom has many). I want none of it. I would rather live in a tent for the rest of my life than accept any money knowing how she feels. I would rather have the relationship or a better relationship instead of money any day..

[Gooblink]

This is exactly how I feel. I've loaned my little sister money over the years but I consider it a gift and never expect her to pay me back. She's a single mother and is in college right now. I feel blessed that I'm in a position to help her out occasionally. I wouldn't dream of charging her interest.

:iagree: