Friends borrowing for kids' college

[jld]

Some people on Catherine's college thread have mentioned they regret choosing a private school over a state one, because of the debt involved. We have friends who co-signed loans with their daughter for a 4 year degree in international relations from a private university. Their 2nd daughter is planning on doing something in writing or social work, once again at a private university. The debt from 1st dd is over $100,000, and likely will be with 2nd dd, too.

 

I have tried to talk to the mom (a woman at least 15 years older than I - mid-50s) about the great value state schools are, but she says that her daughters want big city schools (not really available in our Midwestern state). I just don't say anything anymore. Now I just try to listen and say something positive. I suppose that's not right, either (sigh). This woman's husband is unemployed (though she does have a good job), and they have nothing saved for retirement. I don't think their house is paid for either, though I think their vehicles are.

 

You know, it's easy to say, and correct, too, that you just have to respect other people's choices, and that it's none of your business how other people live their lives. I agree with this, and yet it's hard to see other people make choices that could really end up being a burden to them and their children.

 

Have you tried to talk to friends or relatives on this subject? Or are you a lot smarter than I am, lol?

[abbeyej]

You've said what you can say. There's nothing more you can or should do. People make decisions I wouldn't make all the time. And I'm sure they think the same of me.

 

No, I can't imagine going hundreds of thousands of dollars into debt for my kids to go to their first-choice college while I was facing retirement. And I don't think it's wise to encourage kids to *start* their lives in debt! I want my kids to be free to start saving up for a little home and a family... So we'll make decisions that reflect that.

 

But I can't be responsible for other people's poor decisions.

 

And I *don't* necessarily think that state colleges or community colleges are "just as good as" or provide the same experience as some private colleges. It really depends, but there are trade-offs no matter what you choose. But if my kids had no scholarship money coming in and no money set aside for school, etc, I'd be encouraging them to choose the best school that they could *afford*. (And do really, really well so that perhaps they'll have more fellowship and grant opportunities for grad school...)

[happi duck]

I've noticed that for some families going to a specific type of college defines "going to college", anything different wouldn't "count".

[tex-mex]

You've said what you can say. There's nothing more you can or should do. People make decisions I wouldn't make all the time. And I'm sure they think the same of me.

 

No, I can't imagine going hundreds of thousands of dollars into debt for my kids to go to their first-choice college while I was facing retirement. And I don't think it's wise to encourage kids to *start* their lives in debt! I want my kids to be free to start saving up for a little home and a family... So we'll make decisions that reflect that.

 

But I can't be responsible for other people's poor decisions.

 

And I *don't* necessarily think that state colleges or community colleges are "just as good as" or provide the same experience as some private colleges. It really depends, but there are trade-offs no matter what you choose. But if my kids had no scholarship money coming in and no money set aside for school, etc, I'd be encouraging them to choose the best school that they could *afford*. (And do really, really well so that perhaps they'll have more fellowship and grant opportunities for grad school...)

:iagree: I went to a small Christian college and loved it!! Hubby went to a state college and was miserable. To each his own. Why judge your friend? This could be their family's way of doing this $$$ for their child. Weddings, colleges, down payments, etc. :confused:

[Rosy]

Yikes. I know there are parts of the country where the name of the school means a lot to people. I can't see making that choice for my family. Hopefully everything works out for your friend--it sounds like a recipe for disaster.

[EmilyK]

I think it totally depends on the family. I'm really glad I went to the private school I did -- it was an amazing educational experience. I would love to do that for my kids if it is what they want. I'm not sure it makes sense in the situation the OP is describing, but it is hard to know.

[jld]

I think you've got an interesting point there, happi duck. I hadn't thought of that before, but you're probably right on.

 

I wonder if it's like buying kids jeans. They tell you they want jeans, but they don't mean denim pants. They mean a specific company's denim pants.

 

Thanks for enlightening me!

[Chris in VA]

How in the world did they even get the loans?

 

Not a choice I would make--even if I could. Maybe their kids will take on some of the debt when they graduate. That would be a nice way to thank their parents.

[abbeyej]

Maybe their kids will take on some of the debt when they graduate. That would be a nice way to thank their parents.

 

Sure. But an awful way to start out life -- a house-worth of debt and an entry-level position? Ouch.

 

That said, I totally agree with a PP who said her private college experience was phenomenal. So was mine. I'm so glad I was able to go where I did. I had the advantages of a small college within a large research university. I had small classes (often 5-12 students) with full professors right from the beginning. I think I took three classes total with grad students, I never had trouble getting into the classes I wanted... Friends at our cross-town rival, an extremely well-respected state school, never even *spoke* to a professor their entire first year and were stuck in classes of 200 kids for at least the first two years. It was a radically different experience. ... But I was lucky enough to be there on a full scholarship.

 

But if the entire cost is in loans? ... No, we'd look for an alternative.

[bettyandbob]

I came across an episode of Oprah with Suze Orman discussing this problem. It featured a dad who wanted to fund his 2 dds at private universities. Dad and mom had ok incomes, but little retirement, loans on house and cars. They were not in any position to fund one expensive college degree, let alone 2. The mom wanted the girls to consider state schools. The girls wouldn't do it because dad had said whatever private school they wanted was theirs. So, the finances were all laid out. The massive debt. The no chance of retirement (and hopes of never being laid off). The daughters had no idea the financial cost of college. And of course by the end of the hour they agreed that they never wanted their parents in that bad a financial situation.

 

Talk shows tie things up so neatly in an hour. But I do think there are many teens who really have no idea about the cost of attending college. My parents paid for my undergrad degree, back which college was way cheaper. They stipulated I could only attend a state school and my father had our family move to a state with a great selection of state colleges, including 2 public ivys for that reason. Tuition at the same state colleges I considered has increased astronomically, but it's still cheaper than private schools.

[Nicole M]

I've noticed that for some families going to a specific type of college defines "going to college", anything different wouldn't "count".

 

Yes. I was so dismayed when a family we know pressured their child to attend Stanford. The boy is an incredibly talented violinist and was accepted to two of the finest conservatories in the country. But that was not what the parents had in mind for their sons' college.

 

It is hard. I agree with Abbey, people make all kinds of choices I would not make. But I think we're all trying to do what we feel is best, however flawed our efforts might be.

[Haiku]

Have you tried to talk to friends or relatives on this subject? Or are you a lot smarter than I am, lol?

 

I don't talk to people about things like this. My sister once tried to tell me how we didn't have enough life insurance (we do) and that if they ever got our kids (through our deaths) that the amount we left wouldn't support the kids (it certainly would, but my sister and bil are doctors and lead a much more extravagant lifestyle than we do). I was furious with her, and that experience has made me determined not to pick at people about their spending habits unless they ask for my advice.

 

Tara

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

Sure. But an awful way to start out life -- a house-worth of debt and an entry-level position? Ouch.

 

That said, I totally agree with a PP who said her private college experience was phenomenal. So was mine. I'm so glad I was able to go where I did. I had the advantages of a small college within a large research university. I had small classes (often 5-12 students) with full professors right from the beginning. I think I took three classes total with grad students, I never had trouble getting into the classes I wanted... Friends at our cross-town rival, an extremely well-respected state school, never even *spoke* to a professor their entire first year and were stuck in classes of 200 kids for at least the first two years. It was a radically different experience. ... But I was lucky enough to be there on a full scholarship.

 

But if the entire cost is in loans? ... No, we'd look for an alternative.

:iagree:

I also think it is a big problem that often a college education costs upwards to $100,000 or more:glare: I do not think college is everything ,but it is often necessary for many careers. Pretty soon only the ultra-rich will be able to afford college and to me that is not right since education is important for our country IMHO. So I guess this generation of college graduates will often never even have the hope of buying a house and will be saddled with huge debt. I know that I only had $5000.00 worth of debt:001_huh: My dh was able to pay for his education at a state university. I think that is much, much harder or even impossible to do today even if you go to a state college since many state colleges themselves are pretty expensive:(

 

I know cost will be a factor in my ds's college education in regards to the choices he will have.

Edited April 24, 2010 by priscilla

[Haiku]

I think that is much, much harder to do today even if you go to a state college since many state colleges themselves are pretty expensive:(

 

 

The state university that is 20 minutes from my house is $8,000 a year. I was just looking a few weeks ago because my oldest will be going to college in 3 years. The state college I went to is now $20,000 a year!

 

Tara

[Orthodox6]

Personal opinion is that all negatively critical judgments of other people expressed in these threads about choices of college major, of public vs. private institutions, and of financing those choices, as well as in negatively critical judgments expressed in any thread about how other people manage their own finances and make their own choices, are out-of-line, prideful, and inappropriate. Not one single board member is free from major errors during life.

 

Said my piece. I'm done.

[Karis]

Personal opinion is that all negatively critical judgments of other people expressed in these threads about choices of college major, of public vs. private institutions, and of financing those choices, as well as in negatively critical judgments expressed in any thread about how other people manage their own finances and make their own choices, are out-of-line, prideful, and inappropriate. Not one single board member is free from major errors during life.

 

Said my piece. I'm done.

 

 

People have opinions and will express them. This is a forum.

[Orthodox6]

People have opinions and will express them. This is a forum.

 

True. So I did.

[Wheres Toto]

I've attended a private college, a state college and an online school. I think that it's as easy to find a state college that will make you happy as a private school - if you know what you're looking for. Other than prestige, the only thing I've seen mentioned as a plus in a private college are small class size (which can be had at state colleges) and vague ideas of ambiance. State colleges often have more course/major offerings, easier scheduling (more sessions offered) and more financial aid, not to mention a lower price tag to begin with.

 

I live in an extremely populous state (NJ) and went to what is one of the least expensive state colleges ($85 a credit when I attended which was less than 10 years ago - as an adult). I did not have a single class which had over 30 students and only those that were the general core requirements even came close to that. This school was fairly large but had a small community feel and offered many more programs and opportunities (not to mention financial aid) than the private college I attended previously.

 

Just about everyone I've talked to (and I worked full time for almost 20 years in a variety of industries - about 10 different companies) has said that no employers ever cared where their degree came from - only that they had one.

[abbeyej]

BTW, I wanted to throw out one more thing. Private colleges/universities are not *always* more expensive than state schools. If a child really wants to go to a particular private school, he or she should apply. Private schools (perhaps less so in the last two years, but still) often have more money in endowments and a lot more money available as merit scholarships. If a child is a good candidate for a particular school and really wants to go there, they should apply (and also apply to some more affordable schools), and consider the financial package they're offered. As long as they go into it knowing that it may not be enough, and that finances *will* have to play into the final decision, they may well discover that a private school is more manageable than the initial price tag would make them think.

[Brilliant]

Personal opinion is that all negatively critical judgments of other people expressed in these threads about choices of college major, of public vs. private institutions, and of financing those choices, as well as in negatively critical judgments expressed in any thread about how other people manage their own finances and make their own choices, are out-of-line, prideful, and inappropriate.

 

I agree... I've been very surprised at the mean-spiritedness in some of the previous threads (not this one).