Does anyone have any experience with Rosetta Stone?

[Hunter's Moon]

I heard Rosetta Stone was like $600 and the correspondence program I will be doing next year and the language class comes with Rosetta Stone so I am not really worried about the price.

 

Anyways, I have heard some bad things about Rosetta Stone but I have also heard some good. Any personal experience you would like to share?

 

BTW, I will be taking Italian III, if that makes a difference.

 

Thanks :bigear:

[Susan C.]

By itself, Rosetta Stone is just conversational, and may not be enough for all you need for Italian III. If it comes with another program, it would be great as a supplement for practice and getting comfortable with the language.

 

My son used RS for Spanish 1 and 2 in our homeschool (I didn't know what else to use, I don't speak the language). He had to start over with foreign language at college. So, you get the credit for doing RS in high school, but don't know enough to test out of anything at college (which isn't all bad if RS is your only option).

[Ester Maria]

If you tell me content-wise what should you be studying in Italian III (i.e. what have you covered so far in I and II), I might suggest some additional things to use.

Personally I don't think of Rosetta Stone very high, but whatever floats your boat. I do think it would be great to add something to it though.

[Hunter's Moon]

I believe the program comes with a workbook as well.

 

For Italian I and II we were a little behind because my first teacher had a baby and was out for 3 months and my second just doesn't know how to control the students.

 

In Italian I though, we learned days, months, numbers, alphabet, weather, sports, instruments, general conversation, general information, age, feelings, adjectives, and how to say my and such things.

 

In Italian II we are focusing more on tenses just as past, present, and future.

[HollyDay]

I'm not overly impressed with Rosetta Stone. I know folks who love it, but I guess the learning style is just not for me. It is very conversational with little grammar. It moves very rapidly and I find it difficult to keep up.

[TravelingChris]

We got the homeschool edition of Spanish and it does have grammar and exercises. My girls like it and since they didn't like learning Spanish with some other programs, I am happy. I have a lot of other Spanish resou8rces if and when they need them.

[laughing lioness]

We have RS Hebrew and are really enjoying it, from my dh who has graduate language studies, to my 7 yo who asks to "play the Hebrew game." Our goal is conversation. My ds is taking Latin on-line for h.s. credit.

As an aside, my oldest dd, who was conversant in Hungarian, Romanian, and fluent in ASL when applying to college, with no formal study in any, was offered lots of money for college based on her ability to converse, as well as her travel history.

[Ester Maria]

I believe the program comes with a workbook as well.

 

For Italian I and II we were a little behind because my first teacher had a baby and was out for 3 months and my second just doesn't know how to control the students.

 

In Italian I though, we learned days, months, numbers, alphabet, weather, sports, instruments, general conversation, general information, age, feelings, adjectives, and how to say my and such things.

 

In Italian II we are focusing more on tenses just as past, present, and future.

To sum it up - in Italian I you wasted a lot of time learning virtually nothing, in Italian II you barely scratched the surface of the Italian verb system. How... productive. :D

 

Not your fault, though - but if you desire to actually learn some Italian as opposed to dabble in it (and the way they teach you seems to be more along the lines of "dabbling" than a structured study), you need not to rely on their sources only. Especially not Rosetta Stone-ish.

 

I suggest you to get a program called Progetto Italiano (1, 2, 3 - I would suggest you to start with the first one and see where you are, you might be able to start from the middle), it comes with audio and workbooks too, it's not ideal for self-study (as in, it assumes a professor - though it's not unheard of that people used it as a self-study course :)), but one of the better ones out there. I personally worked it with and can testify that adults and more mature teens generally respond very well on it.

 

Other than that, I'd recommend you to purchase a good grammar, which is a must in a language study. Dardano-Trifone (any of the editions, really; for a start you might wish to try grammatica di base) is a typical choice and indeed a good choice. It's written very clearly and can be followed with limited Italian skills too. You could also profit from a good (bilingual for start) dictionary.

 

In any case, trust me that you won't learn much in your course, judging from the parts I&II, and as you will be homeschooling yourself, I thought you might wish to broaden it a little.

[Ester Maria]

As an aside, my oldest dd, who was conversant in Hungarian, Romanian, and fluent in ASL when applying to college, with no formal study in any, was offered lots of money for college based on her ability to converse, as well as her travel history.

While I trust you - not knowing your daughter and realizing that it certainly IS theoretically possible that one would end up conversant or even fluent in a foreign language without any form of formal study - I will just say that I am yet to meet somebody I would mark "conversant" in Italian without a significant level of a formal study of the language (i.e. in an academic setting) - excluding, of course, native speakers, people who grow up with/around native speakers or spent significant periods of time in the countries where Italian is spoken.

 

Maybe we just have different concepts of "conversant", but Rosetta Stone - like approaches don't lead to anything remotely "conversant" for me. :confused: And I'm yet to meet somebody who knows Italian (or Hebrew, whatever) after Rosetta Stone.

 

It's pretty much impossible to learn the language well outside of its context (i.e. without being immersed in it) without a formal study. NOT unheard of, but speaking of average people in average circumstances, very unlikely.

Did your daughter spend a lot of time in Hungary and Romania? Being conversant in a language like Hungarian strikes me pretty odd without significant immersion experience, she must have been there a while, or grew up around it?

[RENEEinVA]

We used Rosetta Stone last year with our dds. We felt like nothing was really sticking. This year we have each of them enrolled in a online class and are finding they are picking the language up much more easily. It helps that they can practice with other students in the class too.

[lizziebeth]

My ds started with RS French this year, and we've progressed through almost two levels, but I added a LOT of additional work with French grammar books and verb workbooks. He's really enjoyed RS, and it's a great, fun introduction to a foreign language, but I don't think it can be used as a stand-alone program. He's picked up quite a bit of vocabulary, but I'm afraid he would be light-years behind a "typical" French I or II student if I hadn't added the workbooks.

 

So, if it will be used in your class as a supplemental aid, then I think it'll be fine!

[cathmom]

To sum it up - in Italian I you wasted a lot of time learning virtually nothing, in Italian II you barely scratched the surface of the Italian verb system. How... productive. :D

 

 

 

 

I'm just curious - what do you think she should have learned in Italian 1? More grammar, some the verb tenses?

 

(I just want to make clear that this is a serious question and there is no snark or sarcasm included. I would very much like to know what you think, since I believe you are a native speaker of Italian and are quite well-educated.)

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

We used Rosetta Stone last year with our dds. We felt like nothing was really sticking. This year we have each of them enrolled in a online class and are finding they are picking the language up much more easily. It helps that they can practice with other students in the class too.

 

May I ask which online class you are using for foreign language since it is good to get recommendations;)

[Ester Maria]

I'm just curious - what do you think she should have learned in Italian 1? More grammar, some the verb tenses?

 

(I just want to make clear that this is a serious question and there is no snark or sarcasm included. I would very much like to know what you think, since I believe you are a native speaker of Italian and are quite well-educated.)

Italian I should cover:

 

 

• Basic morphology of nouns and adjectives: formations of nouns of the opposite gender and number, mainly regular (e.g. bambino/a, bambini/e), the most important lexically irregular ones (beginner vocabulary: knowing that the plural of uomo is uomini, and that the gender-opposite is donna/e), and being aware of some spelling specifics related to the use of the consonant H which is sometimes inserted in some forms (realizing that the plural of amica is amiche, and why H is inserted; same with -go/co -> -ghi/chi nouns etc.)

• Use of definite and indefinite articles, which also includes knowing when IL turns to LO (why do we say lo spettacolo, but il mio spettacolo, for example), when you can do elision and when you cannot (you can write un'amica, but you CANNOT write un'amico, and you have to know WHY it's un amico, but un'amica with an apostrophe - not knowing when can you elide is one of the most common mistakes learners, and unfortunately illiterate Italians too, do!)

• Personal pronouns (both lists), dative and accusative forms, and knowing how to accord them with the verb in the past:

  Signora, Le dico... (knowing that Le is dative form and why it's capitalized);

  Ho visto Anna -> Anna l'ho vista ieri... (knowing why you SHOULD elide "La ho" into "l'ho" and why you would say vista instead of visto when you combine pronoun with the verb)

• Speaking of verbs: ALL conjugations of the present tense (including the notion of verbs with -isc-, such as finire, which is conjugated with -isc- in some persons, as finisco, finisci...), focusing on the regular verbs but doing some common and irregular ones too;

  Past participles + passato prossimo (including memorizing some common irregular past participles), imperfetto, differences between passato prossimo and imperfetto

  Imperative, all forms (formal, informal, plural), with negations too

  Futur I, but only on the level of recognition more than using it yet

• Lexically, you should master vocabulary you can use to introduce yourself, provide basic information about where and with whom you live, know the names of basic body parts, numbers (and knowing how to spell them, diciassette is written with double T AND with double S, which most learners fail to memorize right at the beginning), vocabulary related to basic everyday life situations (work: professions, going to shop, etc.)

• Particella ne (informatively)

• Phonetically, you should be aware of what are consonants, what are vowels, what are diphtongs and hiatuses, going into greater detail is not needed

• Culturally, you should be able to say a few sentences about Italy (in Italian), point to a few regions, name some famous dead or alive Italians, say that Italian is la lingua più bella del mondo :D, and that kind of basic stuff.

 

Italian II should expand on these basic notions:

 

 

• The morphology of adjectives should be studied more thoroughly (comparatives, absolute and relative superlatives) and basic syntactic notions related to it (how the place of adjective can change the meaning in sentence, etc.)

• Nouns-wise, more combinations than the basic pattern should be introduce (-ttore -> - trice, etc.), as well as knowing that some concepts are expressed only in male form, that singular and plural grammatically and semantically don't always match (e.g. il fogliame which technically denotes plural)

• Verbs-wise, passato prossimo versus imperfetto - broadening on this; future I and II (relationship); pluperfect of passato prossimo and then combination of tenses (syntax, basically); ideally, remoto (with all irregularities) and pluperfect of remoto would also be introduced, but that's often not possible so it can be postponed for Italian III

• Forms such as infinitive past and gerund should also be learned in Italian II so that you can syntactically start understanding how the language works

• Subjunctive in the basic forms on the level of recognition (unless you have an intense course it's unrealistic to expect mastery of subjunctive in Italian II, but you should point to students what all those "sia" and "fossi" are, and why you're correcting their "Penso che è..." to "Penso che sia...") -> i.e. the notion of the existence of subjunctive should at least be in the air

• Conitional I in forms of cortesia (vorrei; sarei grato se... etc.)

• Articles with geographic notions if it's not done yet; imperative with sticking pronouns to it (passaglielo and such forms, dissecting them to see why it's passa+gli+e+lo and which part means what)

• Particelle ci and ne, basics

• Lexically, you should be able to understand and be able to write a simple letter (using forms of cortesia if needed), describe people, places, events and situations in past, present and future (Roma è stata fondata... Oggi vivono a Roma... Nel futuro...), do a simple "text + comprehension" activity

• Culturally, it's the time to learn basic notions on Italian history, to learn Italian regions with their capital cities and what they're famous for, and to introduce a lot of texts, as you study grammar, through which you will get to know more about Italy

 

 

Therefore, in Italian III, you should basically finish grammar (conditionals, subjunctives, remoto if not done yet, periodo ipotetico and concordanza dei tempi in all cases, finishing up what's left to finish of passive forms), deal with more obscure things grammatically (some changes in prepositions English vs. Italian, for example), and basically be able to read and to continue working on oral and written comprehension.

[Hunter's Moon]

We did learn a lot of that stuff in Italian I, I just didn't write very descriptively about what we learned. The only thing on that list we didn't learn was culture. When I said we learned my and such things, I meant indefinite and all the others. I wouldn't be able to put basic sentences together if we hadn't learned that. I don't blame my Italian I teacher because she was having a baby. I feel I learned a decent amount in Italian I. Italian II is where I'm having issues. We don't learn half the time and it is ridiculous. He talks about things that have no relation. He is one of the reasons I will be getting home schooled next year, teachers at my school don't teach, too busy trying to fit in with the idiotic kids.

 

In Italian II we learn imperfetto, passato prossimo, and imperatives. Thats about it. He makes us watch movies all the time but the only one I learned anything from was Pane Amoro (Bitter Bread) about the immigration of Italian and the hangings and such.

[Guest Barb B]

We are doing spanish in rs. I like it. It has lots of vocab., version 3 has grammar (all tenses, moods in verbs . . . ). You read, write, listen and speak it. I feel you just can't beat it. We love it.

 

Barb

[Hunter's Moon]

I am not entirely sure which RS for Italian I would be using because I got a mesh of it in 9th and 10th grade. I believe they will give me a placement test though (not RS, the program I'm enrolled in.)

 

I know you are doing Spanish but what was version 2 like? What was focused on mainly? Is 3 an overview of 2 but more in-depth?

[AHASRADA]

We have been using Rosetta Stone at a very relaxed pace for a couple of years now. It's a great place to start, for the kids to become familiar with the sound of the language and be able to understand quite a bit. However, they will need an added speaking component, and a grammar component to explain why the verbs have different endings, etc.

 

I think it is a fun and efficient way to learn vocabulary, much better than memorizing lists or flipping through flash cards, but they will need to learn some formal grammar on the side, as well as an opportunity to use what they have learned (as with any program).

[Ester Maria]

When I said we learned my and such things, I meant indefinite and all the others.

Judging by this sentence alone, you have no idea what are you talking about, you don't even have the basic terminology to describe what are you referring to (there is no "indefinite" "my" and stuff like that). The things I write might ring a bell, but you don't know them, because nobody taught you systematically these things.

 

None of that is difficult, but you need to approach it systematically. Way too many programs out there lack that systematic approach and unfortunately, many of the Italian "professors" I met over here - unless they received their degrees in Italy (i.e. studying Italian at the level where you can teach natives after finishing the degree) - themselves aren't that confident in the language, especially with some of the more complicated issues. It wouldn't be the first time that somebody consciously avoided to teach you some things or speed up pace and deal with concrete grammar.

 

I think it's great that you're starting to homeschool yourself, not only for your Italian, but your education in general. Italian is just one of the areas that you have chance to really work on now. :)

Italian II is where I'm having issues. We don't learn half the time and it is ridiculous. [...] In Italian II we learn imperfetto, passato prossimo, and imperatives. Thats about it. He makes us watch movies all the time but the only one I learned anything from was Pane Amoro (Bitter Bread) about the immigration of Italian and the hangings and such.

*amaro

 

The easiest thing is to play film and voila, let the kids learn... Unfortunately many schools today work by that principle, of "amusing" kids rather than educating them. :rolleyes: It's a LOT easier and requires considerably less mental effort from everyone, professor, and students included.

 

You can PM me regarding any specific questions you might have (for Italian II, or III next year too), problems with grammar and alike.

[Hunter's Moon]

Judging by this sentence alone, you have no idea what are you talking about, you don't even have the basic terminology to describe what are you referring to (there is no "indefinite" "my" and stuff like that). The things I write might ring a bell, but you don't know them, because nobody taught you systematically these things.

 

I do know what I am talking about and I don't appreciate you insulting me that way. You may be trying to help but you definitely are not coming off that way. I know indefinite has nothing to do with my, I simply meant I learned all the ways of saying my, the, and one.

 

Indefinite all has to do with one.

 

Definite has to do with the.

 

We also learned prepositions and while I may not have everything memorized that is a flaw in the school system, not me. We learn prepositions one day and clothes the other.

 

You're coming off as if you're insulting me and I really don't appreciate it. I am asking for reviews of Rosetta Stone, not a grammar lesson.

 

You definitely could have put what you said into a nicer way because the rest of your post is helpful and not insulting but the first part makes you seem superior.

Edited April 23, 2010 by BeatleMania

[Ester Maria]

I simply meant I learned all the ways of saying my, the, and one.

It's not about "my", "the" or "one", or about ways of saying that.

It's about aggettivi possessivi, articoli definiti, articoli indefiniti.

Had you been talking about these categories in those terms, I would have agreed you know about it. The way you present these categories in your posts makes me think so.

Indefinite all has to do with one.

No, it doesn't.

What you just said is actually a logical contradiction as well - specified singularity is by default "definite".

 

Indefinite concepts happen to be expressed in Romance languages using lexically the same items you use for expressing the concept of "one". But that's very, very far from "indefinite having to do with one". You're very mistaken here.

We also learned prepositions and while I may not have everything memorized that is a flaw in the school system, not me. We learn prepositions one day and clothes the other.

I didn't say that anything you don't know is your own flaw, and I dedicated pretty much a paragraph to the "quality" of our American colleagues (speaking concretely of people who specialized in Italianistics), at least most of them.

You definitely could have put what you said into a nicer way because the rest of your post is helpful and not insulting.

You may not have been on these boards long enough to notice that I don't really practice American-style sugarcoating and writing a dozen disclaimers before I communicate the point, and that I'm focused on the WHAT of the point, not on the HOW of the point (it's not my primary intent to "sound nice", seriously, but to help with a relevant information or insight - that doesn't mean that I insult people, but I don't consciously sugarcoat my thoughts).

Sure, you can read insults into it because it sounds too "direct" or something, but it remains reading into my posts rather than reading the concrete things I wrote. In the concrete things I wrote, I said nothing insulting and in fact, taking a single sentence out of context, I said I was taking it out of context ("Judging by this sentence alone...") to point to what I understood as a lack of systematic approach in your studies so far (which I in no way attributed to you). That's all.

[4wildberrys]

 

 

 

 

 

You may not have been on these boards long enough to notice that I don't really practice American-style sugarcoating and writing a dozen disclaimers before I communicate the point, and that I'm focused on the WHAT of the point, not on the HOW of the point (it's not my primary intent to "sound nice", seriously, but to help with a relevant information or insight - that doesn't mean that I insult people, but I don't consciously sugarcoat my thoughts).

Sure, you can read insults into it because it sounds too "direct" or something, but it remains reading into my posts rather than reading the concrete things I wrote. In the concrete things I wrote, I said nothing insulting and in fact, taking a single sentence out of context, I said I was taking it out of context ("Judging by this sentence alone...") to point to what I understood as a lack of systematic approach in your studies so far (which I in no way attributed to you). That's all.

 

Well---I too found your post insulting, especially since you are talking to a young student and not another homeschooling parent :glare: The fact remains that this board is in America, and we do tend to sugar coat things so as not to come off as rude. You pointed out in a very direct and I think hurtful way that she 'doesn't know what she is talking about' numerous times---it was rudely put and especially a student looking for direction would feel personally insulted by that language.

[Ester Maria]

Well---I too found your post insulting, especially since you are talking to a young student and not another homeschooling parent :glare: The fact remains that this board is in America, and we do tend to sugar coat things so as not to come off as rude. You pointed out in a very direct and I think hurtful way that she 'doesn't know what she is talking about' numerous times---it was rudely put and especially a student looking for direction would feel personally insulted by that language.

I'll ask very directly: Do these boards profit from my presence enough to be tolerant of the minor cultural differences?

 

If the answer is no, how about just signing a petition to ban that terrible Ester that never contributed to anything or anyone (especially not with classics :lol:) and is just going around insulting people?

 

I'm TRYING, wild berries, I REALLY. AM. TRYING.

But it DOES frustrate me that not only it goes completely unnoticed to what extent my self-censorship actually goes, to what extent I'm forcibly putting disclaimers into my posts and writing in 10 paragraphs what I would write in 5 (a LOT of the length of my posts is basically trying to culturally acclimatize), but also when I really put considerable effort into helping somebody - and I'm on these boards while working on translations, and while pregnant (and thus a bit moody, eh :D), and with kiddos on vacation in another part of the world wondering how the hell they're going to fly home when they'll be coming back (flights are back to normal now though :)), so I might be a bit nervous anyway - and you all know how often I do it, and how at length I do it, and how much information I try to provide, only to get the reaction which basically entirely scorns the help I've tried to put into my posts to dwell on ONE SINGLE LINE which, while maybe not phrased in the best fashion, was certainly neither the central point of the post neither trying to be insulting in any way.

 

We're talking about a situation in which you have a native speaker next to you, a native speaker with a degree in that language working for not small sums of money on translations, a person who grew up in a certain language and culture, taking time to respond to you, to a specific you, a random foreigner on some message boards, and to provide you with as much detailed response they can, trying to help you, hell, OUTLINING AN IDEAL STUDY PROGRAM for you (yes, it wasn't asked by her, but let's be frank - I COULD have responded to cathmom via PM yet, for the benefit of all, I posted it for all to see) - and then you go nitpicking and feeling insulted about what you think is an implication in one claim in a hundred she made that day on your topic, and decide to totally focus on that.

 

In that situation, wild berries, I REALLY couldn't care less if she's 16 or 46, a homeschool student or a homeschool mom - she doesn't even begin to appreciate the help of a person professionally from the field. So what am I to be now, if not almost frustrated for having replied to her in the first place? :(

 

And again, I AM trying to culturally acclimatize and play by your rules, I REALLY am. And I will continue to try, and will continue to help, but have some understanding, really, you (not you as wild berries :), but you as, collective you) don't need to attack me every. time. when something like this happens, especially if you know that I do have the best intentions and am obviously trying to be of some help around here too.

Edited April 23, 2010 by Ester Maria

[Gratia271]

Ester Maria,

I genuinely appreciate your insight. You invest significant amounts of personal time to help all of us in those areas about which we are relatively ignorant. Being an attorney, I find your candor refreshing. Americans generally prefer euphemistic characterizations, but I construe your constructive criticism in the manner in which I believe you intend it... to be helpful. In my estimation, you are an invaluable resource on these boards!

[Hunter's Moon]

I'll ask very directly: Do these boards profit from my presence enough to be tolerant of the minor cultural differences?

 

If the answer is no, how about just signing a petition to ban that terrible Ester that never contributed to anything or anyone (especially not with classics :lol:) and is just going around insulting people?

 

I'm TRYING, wild berries, I REALLY. AM. TRYING.

But it DOES frustrate me that not only it goes completely unnoticed to what extent my self-censorship actually goes, to what extent I'm forcibly putting disclaimers into my posts and writing in 10 paragraphs what I would write in 5 (a LOT of the length of my posts is basically trying to culturally acclimatize), but also when I really put considerable effort into helping somebody - and I'm on these boards while working on translations, and while pregnant (and thus a bit moody, eh :D), and with kiddos on vacation in another part of the world wondering how the hell they're going to fly home when they'll be coming back (flights are back to normal now though :)), so I might be a bit nervous anyway - and you all know how often I do it, and how at length I do it, and how much information I try to provide, only to get the reaction which basically entirely scorns the help I've tried to put into my posts to dwell on ONE SINGLE LINE which, while maybe not phrased in the best fashion, was certainly neither the central point of the post neither trying to be insulting in any way.

 

We're talking about a situation in which you have a native speaker next to you, a native speaker with a degree in that language working for not small sums of money on translations, a person who grew up in a certain language and culture, taking time to respond to you, to a specific you, a random foreigner on some message boards, and to provide you with as much detailed response they can, trying to help you, hell, OUTLINING AN IDEAL STUDY PROGRAM for you (yes, it wasn't asked by her, but let's be frank - I COULD have responded to cathmom via PM yet, for the benefit of all, I posted it for all to see) - and then you go nitpicking and feeling insulted about what you think is an implication in one claim in a hundred she made that day on your topic, and decide to totally focus on that.

 

In that situation, wild berries, I REALLY couldn't care less if she's 16 or 46, a homeschool student or a homeschool mom - she doesn't even begin to appreciate the help of a person professionally from the field. So what am I to be now, if not almost frustrated for having replied to her in the first place? :(

 

And again, I AM trying to culturally acclimatize and play by your rules, I REALLY am. And I will continue to try, and will continue to help, but have some understanding, really, you (not you as wild berries :), but you as, collective you) don't need to attack me every. time. when something like this happens, especially if you know that I do have the best intentions and am obviously trying to be of some help around here too.

 

I didn't say you weren't helpful. You just seemed as if you thought you were superior to me. I may not know everything you know but I do know what I say I do. I do not like when people tell me what I do and do not know.

[4wildberrys]

Judging by this sentence alone, you have no idea what are you talking about, you don't even have the basic terminology to describe what are you referring to (there is no "indefinite" "my" and stuff like that). The things I write might ring a bell, but you don't know them, because nobody taught you systematically these things.

 

 

 

Ester---it's this post I am talking about----and the fact that tigersgrowl replied that she found it insulting too. I just don't see how replying this way was necessary----and I haven't seen you be this 'direct' with any other posts on this board so far. So I don't think it's necessary for you to question you even being a member! You are the one who mentioned not 'sugar coating' words the way we Americans do---so I addressed that issue. I just don't see how responding in this particular manner to a student here is helpful----that's all.

 

And I'm sorry if you are stressed having kids out of country---really! But I just don't see how it justifies responding in an impolite, snippy way to a student. :confused:

[jld]

Ester Maria, everybody appreciates your presence here, and Reya's, too. You both know a lot. You're right; everyone benefits from all the knowledge you and Reya so generously share. These boards would be very different without both of you.

 

I think that sometimes, when people are very, very intelligent, like you and Reya, it might be puzzling why other people might not see just intelligence in your posts, and generosity, but also a, what shall we say, aggressiveness?, that I am sure neither you nor she mean to communicate. Maybe all really, really smart women face an uphill battle in this world: taking their rightful place in the intellectual hierarchy while keeping people satisfied with their "ladylikeness", however each culture may define that. I am sure it is a challenge for such talented people as yourselves.

 

Culturally speaking, there certainly are differences in how Americans view what is acceptable to say, and how directly to say it, and how non-Americans view this. I remember being crushed when, after a month of living in Mexico, a native schoolmate told me that a month earlier my Spanish had been "very bad", but now it was "very good". Another native classmate told me that she had lost weight, and if someone told her she used to be fat as a pig, but now she was very thin, she would be "very proud". An American just wouldn't ever be happy being told she ever looked like a pig. Ever.

 

My husband is French, and he has spent many years learning firsthand the differences between French (and general European) cultural expectations and American cultural expectations. He works in the business world, and his adaptation has been important to our survival financially, as well as socially. It can be a challenge, but an oppportunity for growth, as well.

 

Ester Maria, you are a gift to every one of us, as is Reya. We all learn so much from both of you. Perhaps what I've said here is worth considering, and perhaps not. We certainly will respect whatever decision you make, whether continuing here, or not, and will always be grateful for all the information you have brought, and hopefully will continue bringing.

[sandra in va]

I think it's great that you're starting to homeschool yourself, not only for your Italian, but your education in general. Italian is just one of the areas that you have chance to really work on now. :)

 

*amaro

 

The easiest thing is to play film and voila, let the kids learn... Unfortunately many schools today work by that principle, of "amusing" kids rather than educating them. :rolleyes: It's a LOT easier and requires considerably less mental effort from everyone, professor, and students included.

 

You can PM me regarding any specific questions you might have (for Italian II, or III next year too), problems with grammar and alike.

 

 

 

I understand that Ester Maria's tone feels brusque, but I felt that she was genuinely trying to help - as evidenced by her offer to help via private message. It obviously took time to write out her criteria for Italian I and II, as well. I think what has happened here is evidence of a cultural misunderstanding, amplified by the sterile nature of writing on the forums. Without speaking face to face and seeing expressions, it is easy to over-interpret. Please stay on the boards - we need the perspective you bring!

 

Along with the others here, I applaud tigersgrowl in her desire to homeschool herself. I think any foreign language is difficult to self-teach, and given the limited options for homeschoolers - Rosetta Stone is often the curriculum of choice. It is not necessarily the best, but it is functional and easy to use. From what others have said, if one uses it, they should be prepared to take the languages again in college to insure complete grammar coverage.

 

I was reading this thread because my 7th grader wants to take Italian. Since I don't know it and we are unable to hire a tutor, we will probably use a program similar to Rosetta Stone. I've been looking into Tell Me More. It seems more complete than RS, though I'm sure it is still lacking in its grammar coverage. It might be one you could look into tigersgrowl. I would still like to add in some kind of grammar text. I will look into the ones that Ester Maria mentioned earlier, though they may be too much for a jr. high student.

Edited April 23, 2010 by sandra in va

[cathmom]

I COULD have responded to cathmom via PM yet, for the benefit of all, I posted it for all to see)

 

I greatly appreciate your answer! I have been planning to work on what should be covered in each level of high school, and although I don't know any Italian, I could follow most of your list.

 

In that situation, wild berries, I REALLY couldn't care less if she's 16 or 46, a homeschool student or a homeschool mom - she doesn't even begin to appreciate the help of a person professionally from the field. So what am I to be now, if not almost frustrated for having replied to her in the first place? :(

 

I agree here. While I certainly do see what the other posters are talking about, Ester did respond with quite a lot of detail that would be helpful to someone working on Italian. She is a native speaker who ALSO has an advanced degree in the language (right? I'm not entirely clear on Ester's background). Tigersgrowl1093 is a high school student who has one and a half years of Italian. If Ester is coming off "superior" it's because she is. Could it have been worded nicer? Yes, probably, although tone in a foreign language is incredibly hard to communicate, especially online. I think when all of us can write a post like Ester's in a foreign language, then we can start criticizing her tone.

 

And again, I AM trying to culturally acclimatize and play by your rules, I REALLY am. And I will continue to try, and will continue to help, but have some understanding, really, you (not you as wild berries :), but you as, collective you) don't need to attack me every. time. when something like this happens, especially if you know that I do have the best intentions and am obviously trying to be of some help around here too.

 

I am happy to have Ester around. Thank you for answering my question!

[Hunter's Moon]

I apologize Ester Maria and really do appreciate your help. You were very thorough in what you said and you didn't have to waste your time helping me. Once again, I apologize that I was offended and over looked the help that you gave to me. Thank you.

[lllll]

...

[Guest Barb B]

I am not entirely sure which RS for Italian I would be using because I got a mesh of it in 9th and 10th grade. I believe they will give me a placement test though (not RS, the program I'm enrolled in.)

 

I know you are doing Spanish but what was version 2 like? What was focused on mainly? Is 3 an overview of 2 but more in-depth?

 

Well, they really aren't levels or years (like spanish I,II and III); but rosetta stone updated there program (revamped it). I think they did this for most languages. If they have Italian in version 3 that is the version I would use. They placed alot more grammar. Also I think once you start there is a way to do a sort of placement test to see where you should begin.

 

Hope this helps. Hope we get back to the original posters questions here.

 

Barb

[In The Great White North]

Also I think once you start there is a way to do a sort of placement test to see where you should begin.

 

Do you know how to do this? I have Rosetta Stone and I'd love to find a placement test.

[Guest Barb B]

First, this is for version 3. Look in the Parents Guide; there is a list of "curricula descriptions"; one is labeled placement. When you sign in: go to the "homeschool dashboard"; select "assign curriculum". You should see a list of options - scroll down to placement.

 

Barb

[Susan C.]

One thing I do remember about Rosetta Stone that may help those in this thread. Unless it is changed (we did the version before what is out now) the program relies a lot on memory. They introduce phrases and sentences, but we had no idea as to why what they showed was the way is was, for example, why the endings changed, how to do the tenses, etc. The first half came with a grammar book that ds relied heavily on and so he was able to get by, but the second level didn't have it, and he found it impossible to do.

[cathmom]

I apologize Ester Maria and really do appreciate your help. You were very thorough in what you said and you didn't have to waste your time helping me. Once again, I apologize that I was offended and over looked the help that you gave to me. Thank you.

 

:001_smile:

 

:grouphug:

[In The Great White North]

First, this is for version 3. Look in the Parents Guide; there is a list of "curricula descriptions"; one is labeled placement. When you sign in: go to the "homeschool dashboard"; select "assign curriculum". You should see a list of options - scroll down to placement.

 

Thank you, I found it and gave it a whirl. Not my idea of a placement test. All it does for the "Reading and Writing Placement" is highlight "Reading and Writing" across all lessons on the "assignment" page. So you more or less keep trying them til they get too difficult. This could take hours, days even, unless you make a guess and start somewhere in the middle. I had envisioned a single test that would tell me at least which Level, preferably which Unit and Lesson, to start on, without having to try them all first.:glare:

[Guest Barb B]

One thing I do remember about Rosetta Stone that may help those in this thread. Unless it is changed (we did the version before what is out now) the program relies a lot on memory. They introduce phrases and sentences, but we had no idea as to why what they showed was the way is was, for example, why the endings changed, how to do the tenses, etc. The first half came with a grammar book that ds relied heavily on and so he was able to get by, but the second level didn't have it, and he found it impossible to do.

 

The 3rd version does better with grammar. Still, I have a couple of spanish books here so we can look things up. Just 2 books that I picked up at barnes and noble. As I have gotten used to rs I also have gotten used to the method they use. I get used to the deductive reasoning you need to figure stuff out. As a lesson progresses - I have that Aha moment where I get it. I then will check it out in one of the books. I am going through this with ds so we can discuss this stuff together!

 

Barb

[laughing lioness]

 

Did your daughter spend a lot of time in Hungary and Romania? Being conversant in a language like Hungarian strikes me pretty odd without significant immersion experience, she must have been there a while, or grew up around it?

 

She lived in Romania with a Hungarian host family on and off for almost a year.

[RENEEinVA]

May I ask which online class you are using for foreign language since it is good to get recommendations;)

We really like The Potter's School French classes. Madame Starosciak is a wonderful teacher! My older dd is doing well with Spanish also. Next year, both dds will be taking French and Spanish Conversations. These classes provide an extra 90 minutes a week of practice speaking the languages.