annabanana1992 Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 We (really just me) have been experiencing some grammar frustration in our house lately with retention. Namely, there is none! DS10 and DD8 were in a classical school for several years and used Shurley. We brought them home and finished up the FLL series. We are now using MCT. I gave them the Grammar Island pretest several weeks ago and tried not to go into shock at their answers. We proceeded into Grammar Island, and I gave them the quiz that comes somewhere around p. 60 today. Again, a rather epic fail on their part.... Yikes... when does grammar click??? What should I do at this point? Start Grammar Island over again? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt_Uhura Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 hhhhmm how are you doing GI? Are you discussing it with them? Is it just lack of interest on their part? Interest really affects retention. I've completed GI and am now in SI w/ a 4th grader and a 1st grader and retention has been excellent. This program suits them perfectly. Do you feel GI fits your kids learning style? Perhaps adding in a workbook might help? Granted, we're also working through Practice Island, doing a sentence per day, and that daily 5 min dose of grammar has GREATLY helped retention I believe. Also, I should add, that after we finished GI, my oldest son had two chapters to finish up in Growing With Grammar grade 4 from last year and as I hate not not finish things, I had him finish it and my 1st grader wanted to do it as well. It went perfectly b/c it was all about prepositions, prep phrases, conjuctions. I say keep going, see how it goes w/ the Practice Island once you finish GI. You'll review again in Sentence Island and see if retention is any better. Also what I did w/ GI is that I went back a few pages before every lesson to quickly review (this was for my 1st grader's benefit as this was all new material for him but review for my 4th grader up until prep phrases). Also, if we were going to a dr's appt, I'd grab GI and the boys would read over the funny stories. hth, Capt_Uhura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matryoshka Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 We (really just me) have been experiencing some grammar frustration in our house lately with retention. Namely, there is none!DS10 and DD8 were in a classical school for several years and used Shurley. We brought them home and finished up the FLL series. We are now using MCT. I gave them the Grammar Island pretest several weeks ago and tried not to go into shock at their answers. We proceeded into Grammar Island, and I gave them the quiz that comes somewhere around p. 60 today. Again, a rather epic fail on their part.... Yikes... when does grammar click??? What should I do at this point? Start Grammar Island over again? I don't think you have to start Grammar Island all over again. I think the real retention hits in the practice books (and it's also all reviewed and practiced again in the writing books). The Grammar book itself is a introduction - it's going over everything again and again and actually using what you've learned over the course of the year that gives you retention. Do not just assign the practice sentences and correct them and give them back - go over each one. I have my kids do them themselves first and then I get out a white board and we do the sentences together and talk through each piece and then they correct their own senteces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annabanana1992 Posted March 15, 2010 Author Share Posted March 15, 2010 I thought I wasn't supposed to start Practice Island until I finished Grammar Island? Did I mess up? We do discuss Grammar Island together, and we all enjoy it except when they can't identify a noun in a sentence :tongue_smilie:. We will keep plugging along - trusting the books! Any other suggestions? Thank you so much! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matryoshka Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 I thought I wasn't supposed to start Practice Island until I finished Grammar Island? Did I mess up? We do discuss Grammar Island together, and we all enjoy it except when they can't identify a noun in a sentence :tongue_smilie:. You're not supposed to start the Practice Books till you finish the Grammar book, but the Grammar book only lasts a few weeks, I think? You say they've also used Shurley and FLL - don't they have some kind of mnemonics for parts of speech? If my kids don't know I sometimes just break out in the Grammar Rock song (those are our "jingles" :tongue_smilie:). Or for a noun, I often say, "can I put "the" before the word?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuovonne Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 I thought I wasn't supposed to start Practice Island until I finished Grammar Island? Did I mess up? I also thought that you were supposed to start Practice Island after Grammar Island. It's listed that way in the .pdf explaining the flow of the books. However, I really like Capt_Uhura's starting Practice Island early. We have just finished all eight parts of speech and and now starting Practice Island. We only do one line of analysis (parts of speech). I print the sentences on a separate piece of paper so that after we do the rest of the book we can go back and redo those sentences with all four levels of analysis. We do discuss Grammar Island together, and we all enjoy it except when they can't identify a noun in a sentence :tongue_smilie:. We will keep plugging along - trusting the books! Sounds like me and my daughter. I love Grammar Island, and Sparkle likes it too, when she understands. Then some days, she can't tell the difference between an adjective and a verb. As much as I want to scream, "It's a linking verb," I don't, but rather guide her to the correct answer by asking her questions. I'm just trusting to the system, doing a lot of reviewing, and I can see she is gradually getting it. I tend to focus on the mistakes she makes, and overlook the parts she gets right. I need to remind myself that she really has made progress, because she couldn't get *any* of it before we started Grammar Island. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branycbur Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 I just have to say that my daughter struggled with grammar until this year (grade 4). She found it boring and she didn't retain much. So we switched to Junior Analytical Grammar and she absolutely loves it. She learned so much, I have to admit, that she passed me up. Her retention is amazing and she now gets 100% on most of her tests. I couldn't recommend it highly enough! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt_Uhura Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 No, no, no I didn't mean to start Practice Island early. I meant that you might see the retention you're looking for once you start Practice Island AFTER you complete Grammar Island. :001_smile: That's where the honing to a fine point is. But if your kids are having issues w/ retention, maybe a year of GWG or something like it would work. But honestly, they'll get it again in Sentence Island, and then in Grammar Town and reviewed in Paragraph Town next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matryoshka Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 No, no, no I didn't mean to start Practice Island early. I meant that you might see the retention you're looking for once you start Practice Island AFTER you complete Grammar Island. :001_smile: That's where the honing to a fine point is. But if your kids are having issues w/ retention, maybe a year of GWG or something like it would work. But honestly, they'll get it again in Sentence Island, and then in Grammar Town and reviewed in Paragraph Town next year. :iagree: That's what I was getting at too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt_Uhura Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 :001_smile: I think little daily bits everyday after that rapid fire 4 weeks of grammar is what makes it stick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 Bannana-What levels of Shurley had they done in school? Have you looked at the scope & sequence for it? Shurley spreads things out much more than MCT, so they hadn't covered a lot of stuff that was on that test, and certainly not in that way. It's no wonder they didn't do well, and it's no reflection on their retention or Shurley or FLL or anything else. It just means they had no experience with THAT stuff in THAT way. Personally, I wouldn't worry about retention or quizzes. I would work together, talk it through together, view it as a process, and let the retention come with time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 Any other suggestions? Thank you so much! I don't use the resources you mention....I'm on GWG 2 with my 2nd grader. However, I don't know that it is the curriculum that makes the miracle, but reminders. More than once a week, during a cuddly reading time, I query him on things we have covered. Can you name all the nouns in that sentence? What part is the predicate? Is this sentence a question, a statement or an exclamation? "We" is a pronoun. Who does it refer to? I don't make it a specific lesson and I only spring a couple questions at a time. If I see a word that can mean more than one thing, like dust, to dust a cake with sugar, or dust, this room is filled with dust, I tend to pounce on those. Surprise attacks. Short and pointed. Kiddo tolerates them well, and sometimes queries me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annabanana1992 Posted March 15, 2010 Author Share Posted March 15, 2010 Ok ladies - we are going to persevere through Grammar Island because if they don't retain anything at least we will have fun doing it! We will then start Practice Island and expect great things...eventually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsiew Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 I just have to say that my daughter struggled with grammar until this year (grade 4). She found it boring and she didn't retain much. So we switched to Junior Analytical Grammar and she absolutely loves it. She learned so much, I have to admit, that she passed me up. Her retention is amazing and she now gets 100% on most of her tests. I couldn't recommend it highly enough! Ohhhh! I'm glad to hear this! I just got this today and am going to start my ds9 in it. It looks great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branycbur Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 Ohhhh! I'm glad to hear this! I just got this today and am going to start my ds9 in it. It looks great! I hope you enjoy it as much as we have! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radiobrain Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 I wouldn't worry too much about it either. My 9 yo will still have trouble occasionally (usually with adverbs) and both can have moments when they look at me like deer in the headlights. It will eventually sink in. Make your own version of the posters (parts of speech, parts of sentence) and either do a lot of madlibs, or make up your own. I think that how they do on a "test" might not really reflect how much they have retained... and sometimes it will only reflect that exact moment, and their brain is off somewhere else. ;) They will go over these things in Sentence Island and the practice books, then when you move to Town level it will be in there AGAIN in the Grammar Town and Paragraph Town. I don't think anyone assumes it will be learned in the few weeks of GI then poof...that's it. It is a process of integrating the beauty of language into your life. Corny, but true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam B Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 Don't feel bad, DS10 just told me the other day that he was just getting use to our grammar... We've been doing it since Sept.! I was asking him if he liked it or wanted to try something else. I think it just takes a lot of pactience and daily commitment-- especially on their part!!! ;) HTH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnandtinagilbert Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 I think 2 things: the reason we keep hitting grammar every year b/c it takes time for it to stick. Using Rod & Staff, it wasn't until 4th or 5th grade until it stuck for certain. Having said that, I have found great success in using materials that incorporate song, movement and games into learning the basics, like definitions, then later identifying in sentences the various parts of speech. Perhaps your children need some movement or a silly mneumonic to help them remember.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchel210 Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 Easy Grammar has been the first grammar book we have used that my son has retained! I think it is boring as can be...but it sticks! It has tons of repetition that really works for us! Im going to use it with my 9 yo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amtmcm Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 After 3 years of Shurley in private school, this year we have had success with Sentence Family, Daily Grams and Easy Grammar. Everything is clicking. We're going to use JAG in the fall to take grammar deeper and get in some diagramming. I will also continue with Daily Grams through the summer and next year to keep up the retention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafiki Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam B Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 I agree with johnandtinagilbert. Have you figured out the best way for them to learn? I plan on having my kids diagram on the drive way soon. I've also heard about doing it w/ playdough or in the snow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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