S/O Does America have more freedoms.

[Garga]

I started that thread weeks ago (and it pops up every now and then) about whether or not Americans have more freedoms than other countries.

 

Well, I just read something very interesting in the Anthropology text book I'm studying.

 

Look at this (there are my notes, not direct quotes)

 

In the early 1900’s only 12-15 countries qualified as democracies.

After WWI, even fewer countries were democracies.

Then, as of 1992, about half of the countries in the world were more or less democracies, and others were in transition to become so. No one yet knows why.

Maybe this is why Americans still think they're more free than other countries? Because for so long, there were so few democracies, and in the grand scheme of things it's been relatively recent that other countries started having democratic freedom?

I feel like my original question has been sort of answered right there. I don't think America does have extra freedoms anymore. But until just a few years ago, America did have more freedoms (so I wasn't just imagining things). There's just been some sort of shift in the past 50 years or so and the rest of the world caught up to the other democratic nations.

Edited March 3, 2010 by Garga_

[keptwoman]

That sounds reasonable. I never realised that so few countries were democracies, what feels like relatively recently.

[Peek a Boo]

I started that thread weeks ago (and it pops up every now and then) about whether or not Americans have more freedoms than other countries.

 

Well, I just read something very interesting in the Anthropology text book I'm studying.

 

Look at this (there are my notes, not direct quotes)

 

In the early 1900’s only 12-15 countries qualified as democracies.

After WWI, even fewer countries were democracies.

Then, as of 1992, about half of the countries in the world were more or less democracies, and others were in transition to become so. No one yet knows why.

Maybe this is why Americans still think they're more free than other countries? Because for so long, there were so few democracies, and in the grand scheme of things it's been relatively recent that other countries started having democratic freedom?

I feel like my original question has been sort of answered right there. I don't think America does have extra freedoms anymore. But until just a few years ago, America did have more freedoms (so I wasn't just imagining things). There's just been some sort of shift in the past 50 years or so and the rest of the world caught up to the other democratic nations.

 

and then there's the next question:

 

why does one limit a definition of freedom to a democracy?

 

even among democracies, there will be more freedoms in some places than in others.

[Garga]

and then there's the next question:

 

why does one limit a definition of freedom to a democracy?

 

even among democracies, there will be more freedoms in some places than in others.

 

Yeah....well I'm out of my depth there. I'll get back to you on that when my kids are in high school and I start to learn more about political science (or whatever teaches you about governments) with them. We're only in 2nd grade right now.

 

I just thought it was interesting that it went from 12-15 countries with this type of gov't to over half the world in less than 100 years. That's kind of drastic.

[Peek a Boo]

I just thought it was interesting that it went from 12-15 countries with this type of gov't to over half the world in less than 100 years. That's kind of drastic.

 

all that darned American Imperialism. ;)

 

If we had just stayed put we'd still be "ahead" lol......

 

:tongue_smilie:

[Peela]

=

Maybe this is why Americans still think they're more free than other countries? Because for so long, there were so few democracies, and in the grand scheme of things it's been relatively recent that other countries started having democratic freedom?

 

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

 

A bit OT:

Someone was making a comment the other day to me about freedoms and I thought she had a point. She spends a lot of time in India. In India, you can play loud spiritual music, with loudspeakers, right next door to another temple that's doing the same. No laws against it. You can put your whole family on a motorbike (Ive seen 5)- no law against it- if there is, no one will stop you. You can throw dead bodies into the river and its seens as a GOOD thing because it purifies them. There's freedom..and there's freedom. Is it free to have so many laws, protecting us from ..ourselves? I came back from Bali recently and felt an intresting comparison- over there, you hire a motorbike for $4 a day and you ride relatively safely- everyone rides slowly and considerately, but road rules are mere suggestions. You have to stay very alert or you will be killed...but amazingly, there are few accidents and we saw none. I came back here and its interesting- you can just about be asleep at the wheel. We drive so fast, its no wonder there are bad accidents.

So...differences do not necessarily make things better, and freedom is an interesting concept.

[Garga]

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

 

A bit OT:

Someone was making a comment the other day to me about freedoms and I thought she had a point. She spends a lot of time in India. In India, you can play loud spiritual music, with loudspeakers, right next door to another temple that's doing the same. No laws against it. You can put your whole family on a motorbike (Ive seen 5)- no law against it- if there is, no one will stop you. You can throw dead bodies into the river and its seens as a GOOD thing because it purifies them. There's freedom..and there's freedom. Is it free to have so many laws, protecting us from ..ourselves? I came back from Bali recently and felt an intresting comparison- over there, you hire a motorbike for $4 a day and you ride relatively safely- everyone rides slowly and considerately, but road rules are mere suggestions. You have to stay very alert or you will be killed...but amazingly, there are few accidents and we saw none. I came back here and its interesting- you can just about be asleep at the wheel. We drive so fast, its no wonder there are bad accidents.

So...differences do not necessarily make things better, and freedom is an interesting concept.

 

You are so right. I feel that all our of laws about every stinkin' thing are so stifling. It's all very complicated. And fascinating.

[LibraryLover]

Not about freedom, but about the 'no accidents' in India part...These stats are from 1995. I am looking for more recent info, but:

 

'According to the Global Road Safety Partnership, almost 1.2 million people are killed and 20 to 50 million injured or disabled in car accidents every year, with 85 percent of the deaths occurring in developing and transitional countries.

 

The Asia-Pacific region, which accounts for about 16 percent of the motor vehicles worldwide, is the site of 44 percent of all traffic deaths. China, with 71,495 deaths, and India, with 59,927 deaths, had the most traffic fatalities in the world in 1995. The rate of deaths to crashes is 2,000 for every 10,000 in Kenya and 3,000 for every 10,000 in Vietnam. In developing countries, the costs of motor vehicle accidents represent three to five percent of the GDP. The estimated yearly cost of motor vehicle accidents in developing countries exceeds uS$100 billion."

 

Those dead bodies in the water are also a health issue...but we also have water issues in the US...so I'll leave that. lol

[EthiopianFood]

Not about freedom, but about the 'no accidents' in India part...These stats are from 1995. I am looking for more recent info, but:

 

'According to the Global Road Safety Partnership, almost 1.2 million people are killed and 20 to 50 million injured or disabled in car accidents every year, with 85 percent of the deaths occurring in developing and transitional countries.

 

The Asia-Pacific region, which accounts for about 16 percent of the motor vehicles worldwide, is the site of 44 percent of all traffic deaths. China, with 71,495 deaths, and India, with 59,927 deaths, had the most traffic fatalities in the world in 1995. The rate of deaths to crashes is 2,000 for every 10,000 in Kenya and 3,000 for every 10,000 in Vietnam. In developing countries, the costs of motor vehicle accidents represent three to five percent of the GDP. The estimated yearly cost of motor vehicle accidents in developing countries exceeds uS$100 billion."

 

Those dead bodies in the water are also a health issue...but we also have water issues in the US...so I'll leave that. lol

 

I think she was references Bali, not India, with the accidents. Otherwise, wow, I really want to know what part of India her dd visited! :lol:

[LibraryLover]

I think she was references Bali, not India, with the accidents. Otherwise, wow, I really want to know what part of India her dd visited! :lol:

 

 

Man, the things one can find on the internet. Here's a recent report on Motorcycle accident rates, and recommendations...from Bali. lol I didn't actually read it....just shocked to find it.

 

www.iatss.or.jp/pdf/research/33/33-2-06.pdf

[EthiopianFood]

Man, the things one can find on the internet. Here's a recent report on Motorcycle accident rates, and recommendations...from Bali. lol I didn't actually read it....just shocked to find it.

 

www.iatss.or.jp/pdf/research/33/33-2-06.pdf

 

Shoot, I don't care how many accidents they have, I just wish I could GO there! How many, I don't know, pineapples or whatever, do they have, that's what I want to know! :tongue_smilie:

[stripe]

Is it free to have so many laws, protecting us from ..ourselves? I came back from Bali recently and felt an intresting comparison- over there, you hire a motorbike for $4 a day and you ride relatively safely- everyone rides slowly and considerately, but road rules are mere suggestions. You have to stay very alert or you will be killed...but amazingly, there are few accidents and we saw none. I came back here and its interesting- you can just about be asleep at the wheel. We drive so fast, its no wonder there are bad accidents.

So...differences do not necessarily make things better, and freedom is an interesting concept.

Yes, and we are awash in tags telling us not to iron clothes while they are on our person, warning us that coffee in a cup is hot, and other such silliness. I think they're not so much to protect people but to protect businesses from litigation.

 

Reminds me of the time I took my child to urgent care. After explaining what was wrong to the person at the front, I waited with my child in excess of 30 minutes. Then a nurse emerged to tell me that, sorry, she's been so busy doing triage that she didn't get to us yet, but we have to go to the emergency room because it could be a matter of life and death! (Sure, that's why you dealt with every other person in the waiting room before getting to us.) It was ONLY a matter of "if you die, we would rather it be somewhere else" instead of "we want you to get good care." And then we sat in the ER waiting room for over an hour, where we were not monitored at all. It was so farcical as to be hard to believe.

 

Anyway about driving, I heard something about road signs, that in the US we have so many of them, including for fairly obvious things ("4 way stop" for example), so that it becomes information overload. The author of the piece was comparing this to the UK, and also was talking about some place there where they'd reduced the number of signs and traffic accidents reduced. In other words, the only signs up were the ones that actually said something significant. Otherwise, use your best judgment.

[TXMomof4]

 

Anyway about driving, I heard something about road signs, that in the US we have so many of them, including for fairly obvious things ("4 way stop" for example), so that it becomes information overload. The author of the piece was comparing this to the UK, and also was talking about some place there where they'd reduced the number of signs and traffic accidents reduced. In other words, the only signs up were the ones that actually said something significant. Otherwise, use your best judgment.

 

 

But you know, some of those signs bear very important messages. Just last week I was in the car w/ my 3 yo ds.

 

He says "Mom, look, a no pee sign! No peeing on the street here!"

 

:lol::lol::lol:

 

It was a no parking sign - big P with a red circle and a line through it. How on earth would my son know not to pee on the street without that sign!

[LibraryLover]

Shoot, I don't care how many accidents they have, I just wish I could GO there! How many, I don't know, pineapples or whatever, do they have, that's what I want to know! :tongue_smilie:

 

Me too! There is some good snorkeling there. Throw in some drinks with little paper umbrellas, maybe? :)

[Parrothead]

I started that thread weeks ago (and it pops up every now and then) about whether or not Americans have more freedoms than other countries.

 

Well, I just read something very interesting in the Anthropology text book I'm studying.

 

Look at this (there are my notes, not direct quotes)

 

In the early 1900’s only 12-15 countries qualified as democracies.

After WWI, even fewer countries were democracies.

Then, as of 1992, about half of the countries in the world were more or less democracies, and others were in transition to become so. No one yet knows why.

Maybe this is why Americans still think they're more free than other countries? Because for so long, there were so few democracies, and in the grand scheme of things it's been relatively recent that other countries started having democratic freedom?

I feel like my original question has been sort of answered right there. I don't think America does have extra freedoms anymore. But until just a few years ago, America did have more freedoms (so I wasn't just imagining things). There's just been some sort of shift in the past 50 years or so and the rest of the world caught up to the other democratic nations.

The Untied States of America is not a democracy. It is a constitutional republic.

[stripe]

The Untied States of America is not a democracy. It is a constitutional republic.

Indeed -- Plato thought one of the worst, least civilized ideas ever was letting the masses have a say. Yikes.

 

At least now people know the electoral college exists. That's one plus of recent elections!

[LizzyBee]

The Untied States of America is not a democracy. It is a constitutional republic.

 

A constitutional republic is a form of democracy. We're not a direct democracy, but we are indeed a democracy.

[Orthodox6]

and then there's the next question:

 

why does one limit a definition of freedom to a democracy?

 

even among democracies, there will be more freedoms in some places than in others.

 

:iagree: Great Britain is an example of a constitutional monarchy. (Maybe I apply the wrong label. I never studied political science.) I don't think of G.B. as a repressive, scary place to live.

 

The second point, about unequal distribution of freedoms, also is true. In some parts of the U.S., for example, one is force-fed, in the name of freedom, concepts which are repulsive and disgusting to the recipient. In other parts of this same U.S., one has the freedom to avoid such things -- or, at least, has the freedom to condemn them without reprisal.

[stripe]

Re the perceived contradiction between "free societies" and democracies -- is it inconceivable for people to vote in societal "restrictions" for whatever they want? I imagine something like, say, gun control might be one of those issues, not that I want to send the thread in that direction. Or late night curfews or restricting the drinking/smoking age. (Or, as was discussed, seat belt wearing or noise pollution laws.) People might perceive these as being beneficial to them in some way (such as safety or orderliness) that to them is worth the restriction.

 

Because otherwise, the complete "freedom" of anarchy is looking like the best alternative, but I'm not sure that's what everyone wants.