Singapore Math Users

[pageta]

Does your child do their work independently? Or are you doing a lot of teaching with this program in order for them to get the concepts? Do they become more independent as they go along?

 

We are doing level 1A and it is very mom-intensive at this point. I have the HIG, but sometimes I feel like the textbook/workbook supplement what I do rather than my supplementing what they do. I follow the basic outline of Singapore, but my ds needs a lot more practice and explaining and work than what is given in the text. That's fine at this point, because I want him to have a solid foundation. But in a couple years I'll have a second child to teach and I'm hoping ds will be a bit more independent by then.

 

Also, am I a failure if my ds only finishes 1A by the end of first grade? We're halfway through the school year and I can definitely see us finishing 1A, but it looks like we'll be doing 1B next fall, which will be second grade. Are we hopelessly behind?

 

Thanks!

[Old Dominion Heather]

No, you aren't behind. To be done with 1A is just fine.

 

Just a thought... as I am sure you know, sometimes a math program just doesn't click with a kid. It isn't anyone's fault, it just happens sometimes. If your son isn't enjoying doing the math, you might want to switch to something he will enjoy. Math will always be pretty teacher intensive if your kid doesn't intuitively get math and most kids don't. So... you might want to look around and see if there is another strong program that he will enjoy that has more of the instruction planned out.

 

I absolutely love Singapore and it works well for my kids, but I have friends who were ready to pull their hair out with Singapore who switched to other programs like Abeka or Horizons and that worked great for their kids. I think you might want to switch if the heavy instruction and slower progress (than you desire) is making your child dislike math.

[Halcyon]

First of all--you're NOT a failure at ALL. It's not important how far along you are; it's important that your child know the information backwards and forwards before you progress to the next level. So take the time to really cement things into your child's head before moving on. If it takes a year to get through 1A, so be it.

 

My 7yo son has been using SM for about a month now. We are slowly moving over from Sadlier Oxford's text for 3rd grade math, and I'd like him to learn the Singapore approach, so he placed into 3A but we're starting with 2B (in fact, we went over 2A as well, albeit more quickly). If I feel he is very strong with the information, I will move him to 3A this summer. If he's not, we will continue to work on 2B skills with the Intensive Practice sheets, etc.

 

Anyway, that wasn't the point of your post--you were asking about teacher involvement. Personally, I am not involved that much in his math at this point--meaning he does the work and comes to me if he encounters an unfamiliar concept. However, that will change with 3A, I believe, as it looks more challenging.

 

How long have you been using SM? GIve it a bit of time, but if it doesn't click for you and your child, there are many other wonderful programs out there. Right now, my younger is using Horizons as he enjoys the simple layout and colorful workbooks. He may or may not switch to SM. Just depends on whether I see it as being a fit.

 

Good luck, and don't be afraid to try another approach if you're feeling frustrated. Math should be fun!

[Matryoshka]

At 6, I wouldn't expect a child to be able to do any math program independently. I'd expect to have to teach it. At that age, not only did I have to teach the math, I'd have to sit next to them while they did it, or they'd wander off and start playing.

 

Do you have the HIG? To be honest, I never used it, but from what I gather here, it has lots of extra explanation and practice, and ideas for games and manipulatives, so you wouldn't have to feel like you're coming up with it yourself. There's also the Extra Practice books if you feel he needs more reinforcement before moving on.

 

For my kids, I ended up starting 1A in Kindergarten, but it took a whole year to complete. 1B took another full year. Since then, we've had no trouble getting through A/B books in one year. They've gotten progressively more independent. By 3rd or so they could all do their workbook independently without me hovering - I think my younger one could by 2nd. I still teach the lesson from the textbook, but I feel like they should be taught given a brief explanation/demonstration before tackling the material - that's what they'd be using the text for in school - sample problems to be worked together, not independently.

 

Now, it doesn't take me much time. Depending on the lesson, it can take 5 minutes, or 20. I'd say 10-15 average? If it's something they find easy like graphs, I sometimes just let them go at it, but that's the exception.

 

I don't think it's any problem only getting through 1A in a year. A lot of people say Singapore is a semester or so ahead. And the books get shorter and shorter as you go along. Better to lay the foundation well now.

[StephanieZ]

Honestly, it seems slow to me to complete 1A only in 1st grade if you are schooling several days a week (and it sounds to me that you are being diligent).

 

1A just seemed really easy to me and to all my kids. Maybe that's b/c we do a lot of math everyday in games/books/talking from preschool age. . . so maybe 1A was mostly familiar ground? I don't know, but I do know it went very fast with all my dc.

 

I haven't seen the HIG but the Text/WkBk combos have always seemed to present all the important points, IME. I wonder if the HIG is distracting both of you? Could that be? Could you drop it and just focus on what the Text is teaching (using the HIG for your edification if you are confused, but only teaching from the Text) and then work through the exercise?

 

Have you considered adding a second program such as Miquon to do in parallel with Singapore? I find that doing Miquon alongside Singapore makes each program go so smoothly, as they complement each other. . .

 

Honestly, if your 1st grader is spending 20-30 min/day on math at least 4 days a week, then it sounds to me that you are making a good effort. . .If you're doing less time than that, I'd bump it up a notch. If you're already putting that much time in, then I'd wonder why the concepts aren't clicking better.

 

I am kinda' mathy and my kids have all been mathy, so maybe I am totally off-base, but I'd be concerned with your son's rate of progress. I'd wonder if the program wasn't a good match for me or my child, or if I needed something in addition. . . or more time. . . or something.

 

FWIW, you could continue math instruction into the summer, which could have multiple benefits. . .

[Dinsfamily]

Here on the Singapore website, they state that an average student would do 1A in first grade and then 1B/2A in second grade. I would say you're not behind then. We're only in 1B, but it seems to me that going too fast through 1A could set your ds up for some hard times later in the program...especially if he isn't math intuitive.

 

Have you thought about using EP with him? I'm planning on using it if any of my boys need more review.

[StephanieZ]

ACK, to answer your main query. . . no, I hardly spend any time teaching Singapore Math. I'd say it averages 3 to 5 min each day teaching time.

 

I am sure to look at the text and go over it with the child before they do the exercise(s). Usually this text review together takes 3 to 5 minutes. Occasionally, it takes less than a minute or more than 5 minutes. When the child is done with the exercise, I check it and go over any errors. If they have trouble during it, they holler for me and I coach them. I'd say 95% of days, the child doesn't need me during their exercise and the correction process takes less than a minute.

 

My kids typically do/have done 1 exercise each day most days (some days several if they are motivated). At 1st-3rd grade age, I aim for 1 singapore exercise and 1 Miquon page each day (and any relevant teaching from the text). On a typical day, my 7 yo 1st grader spends 15 min or so combined in her total math time. However, once a month or so, she goes on a "tear" and spends a couple hours a day on math for a few days. . . and might complete 1/2 a book in those few days. So, her AVERAGE time spent on math might be more like 30 min/day, tho' the MEDIAN is more like 15 min.

 

If I found that a child couldn't usually progress at a pace of 1 exercise per school day in Singapore Math, I would wonder if there was something amiss somewhere.

[pageta]

He certainly likes math. Most days when we finish school and I ask him what he enjoyed most, math is usually what he mentions. We finished the first addition chapter and then went on to subtraction, but he didn't have his addition facts down well yet and he got confused between the two. So I slowed down because I want him to have a solid base in addition before we move on to subtraction. I've been practicing his facts daily while doing other parts of the book (shapes, length, etc.).

 

He's a tough kid to figure out. Not just in math, but in other subjects as well. He listens and asks questions appropriately, and he'll narrate well (in subjects where we do that). But then at times, I will explain something forwards and backwards and upside-down and inside-out and he just doesn't get it, then three days later I'll hear him explaining it in perfect detail to his little brother. So he's smart, but it's really hard to get a feel for whether he is "getting" something and whether or not a given program is working for him.

 

I've tried Kumon, and he says he likes it, but he definitely is not ready to be left to work on his own yet. It takes him forever to do a lesson unless I stand over him and keep him engaged. We've tried Right Start (more than once) but it just does not work for us.

 

I like Singapore because it explains the concepts well. It's easy to teach because there is a logical outline - there is a chapter on addition, another on subtraction, etc. I hate Right Start because it is so scripted and I can't tell if he gets a concept or not so I don't know if I should move on or stay where we're at, and I can't go to another part of the book because there are no sections (everything is just all mixed up together).

 

I've been doing math in three segments and it seems to be working well. 1) We practice skip counting. 2) We practice math facts in various ways - flash cards (which he says he likes - he specifically mentions them as a favorite), abacus (another favorite), partitioning, word problems (from Ray's), etc. 3) A section from Singapore or another topic by my own invention such as counting money or telling time. We spend no more than ten minutes on each segment.

 

I've spent hours looking at various math programs but am at a loss as to what to do. DH and I both found math very easy so I never thought teaching math in homeschool would be so hard. In fact, I taught myself math all the way through college. I don't remember memorizing my math facts because I just knew them, though I did have a teacher who drilled us with flashcards and a time to make sure we knew them. Some days I want to just get MCP Scott-Foresman (what I had in school) and hope that if it worked so well for me, it will work well for ds too. But I'm worried that if we're already behind, we'll just get even further behind by hopping from program to program.

 

I really am at a loss as to whether what we're doing is working or what might work better if this isn't.

[texasmama]

I have two boys, third and first grade, who are using Singapore math. The third grader is on 2B and the first grader is on 2A. They are both very gifted at math. I do very little teaching and most of the work they can do on their own. I didn't even buy the textbooks this time because they never used them last year. At some point, I'm sure we will need the textbooks, but I can teach them without that, so far. As I understand, Singapore math runs a year ahead of the typical grade, so my third grader is on target doing 2B, since 2B is "third grade" work. Singapore works very well for my boys, but they are natural math whizzes and don't need a lot of practice or teaching to understand it at this level. In my opinion, I think it is fine for your child to be working at that pace.

[SonshineLearner]

Little kids are ... well... little. I'd say... Get out the manipulatives and just play along with where the Singapore is going. I LOVE Singapore. But, I've decided that Math is the most important subject for me to cover with my daughter. We spend an hour a day. (She's 11) and my son?? (He's 6) Well, we spend maybe 20 minutes... He is good at Math... But, I only spend maybe 5 minutes reading through the lesson. For us, the reading is the hardest part. The reading is above where he is in Math..

I like reading Math books with him, although I haven't done this as much as I should...

:-)

[Corraleno]

I've spent hours looking at various math programs but am at a loss as to what to do. DH and I both found math very easy so I never thought teaching math in homeschool would be so hard. In fact, I taught myself math all the way through college. I don't remember memorizing my math facts because I just knew them, though I did have a teacher who drilled us with flashcards and a time to make sure we knew them. Some days I want to just get MCP Scott-Foresman (what I had in school) and hope that if it worked so well for me, it will work well for ds too. But I'm worried that if we're already behind, we'll just get even further behind by hopping from program to program.

 

I really am at a loss as to whether what we're doing is working or what might work better if this isn't.

 

Before you give up on the Singapore approach to math ~ have you looked at Math Mammoth? The things I didn't like about Singapore were (1) having to switch back and forth between the text, workbook, and HIG, and teach the lessons myself, and (2) sometimes I felt that Singapore moved too quickly from one concept to another without clear enough explanations or enough practice to cement the concept.

 

Math Mammoth is written to the student; there are no separate texts/workbooks/teacher's guides. The concepts are very clearly explained and illustrated, and the student is led through the problems step by step. It's still quite rigorous and challenging ~ there is a strong emphasis on conceptual understanding and mental math, and it uses the same bar diagram approach to word problems that is one of the hallmarks of Singapore. But it teaches in smaller increments and it includes more built-in review and more drill of math facts than Singapore. It seems to cover roughly the same material in less time, even with the additional review and practice, because it's very streamlined and efficient.

 

There are about 200 pages in the complete 1st grade curriculum, so if you school roughly 180 days/year that's only about a page per day to complete the program. It's very open-&-go: all I do is read the directions to my DD (7) to make sure she understands them (1 minute), and then she works the problems on her own. My older DS did MM4 and MM5 quite independently; I would just answer questions and check his work.

 

IMHO, Math Mammoth takes the best of Singapore, adds a bit more explanation and review, and puts it in an extremely homeschool-friendly format. You can download a package of free samples from the MM website, or for $3-4 you could buy one of the topical books (Addition 1 or whatever) and see if it would work for you. The whole 1st grade package is under $30 ($24 with the HSBC discount code), and it would not be a big switch, conceptually, from Singapore because the two programs are very similar.

http://www.mathmammoth.com/complete/grade_1.php

 

Jackie

[AudreyTN]

- My 4th grader is in 3A, she is not very math minded. We do each activity in the HIG and the Extra Practice book.

- My 3rd grader is in 2B, he is very very mathy. Most times he doesn't even look at the text book. I hand him the workbook and if he gets stuck he asks for help. I show him one time and he's got it.

- My 1st grader has just begun 1A. He's also been doing Rod and Staff Math 1. Singapore moves a little fast for him so we're going S.L.O.W. and alternating with R&S.

 

I have to admit that Math takes up the most time in our school day. Usually I'll look over the lessons and if it's something they can do on their own (a review lesson, for example) then I add it to their daily assignment sheet - which is all independent work.

 

I *try* to alternate teaching a new concept to different children on different days, but it doesn't always work out. Sometimes I'll skip around in the book. For example, in 1A I can alternate a hard concept like number bonds with an easy one like shapes.

[Spy Car]

I'm using 1A with my son. He only occasionally does his work "independently" and even then exercises get done more quickly when I'm looking on that when I'm not.

 

I find it "teacher-intensive" (which is how I'd have it at this stage in any case).

 

Only because we got a math-grove going rather early (Miquon lit a spark in us both) my son doing 1A now as a kindergartner at 5.5. But, under different circumstances (more "normal" circumstances), were he finishing up 1A as a 1st grader I'd be perfectly fine with that. Assuming:

 

1) He was enjoying math, as your son seems to be.

2) He is understanding the concepts, as he seems to be.

 

Sounds to me like you're on the right track in wanting to build a solid foundation, and are doing just that.

 

Bill

Edited February 3, 2010 by Spy Car

[Sweetbabe]

We're currently living in Singapore. For us we're using Spore math while homeschooling my oldest. For local schools the teacher will teach the topic in sections(textbook) and the kids will do the work independently in class and at home.

[brownie]

We're using Singapore. I spend 10-20 minutes with each kid teaching a new concept. I didn't use the HIG until grade 3. They do most of their work the rest of the week "independently" but I check the work, go over errors, get interrupted with q's, etc...

 

I need more independence next year with a 3rd child coming up in K and this is NOT one of the things I am changing to achieve that. I am looking at science and spelling. I do need to sit down with them and teach them to take themselves through the textbook so that they need me less as the material gets harder and to prepare them for self-teaching when they get older.

 

Brownie

[AngieC]

We're doing 1a and I sit with her the whole time. There are some pages I could leave her to do on her own (e.g., math fact drill), but I stay just to keep her on task and to keep my 3 year old out of trouble.