Need to switch geometry programs mid-year

[Guest Psalm23]

My 10th grader has been using Life of Fred Geometry and isn't really 'getting it.' Although we're half-way through the school year, I was planning to order Saxon's new geometry program this week (and wondering how easy it should be for a non-math oriented student to go through alone).

 

Out of curiosity to see how he would do, I downloaded & administered Saxon's placement test, expecting him to complete the "Readiness for Saxon's Algebra 2" since he completed BJU's Algebra I last year. To my horror, he has forgotten how to do just about everything from Algebra 1. :ohmy:

 

So now I wonder what to do. If we go back to square one and start Algebra I all over again (because I fear that he never really understood it to begin with), he might get it this time around, but then won't have the math credits he needs by the time he graduates.

 

He is otherwise a good student and does plan to go to college -- just not as a math or science major!

 

Any advice is welcome!

[EKS]

A couple things--first, if he's not really getting the geometry, I think that doing a different program by himself is not going help much. My son (who just finished geometry yesterday :party:) really needed one-on-one interaction for the first several chapters before he was able to (mostly) do the program (TT) on his own.

 

As for forgetting algebra, I am quite certain that this has happened to my son too. But I'm suspecting that it will come back fairly quickly, and it might for your son as well.

[Hyzenthlay in Pa.]

My 10th grader has been using Life of Fred Geometry and isn't really 'getting it.' Although we're half-way through the school year, I was planning to order Saxon's new geometry program this week (and wondering how easy it should be for a non-math oriented student to go through alone).

 

Any advice is welcome!

 

You may want to look at "Key Curriculum's, Geometry" , our children have liked it, even the non-math lovers,retained and been able to apply what they learned in many areas as a practical skill.My husband is a civil engineer & goes to dc for advice on geometry problems ,still 15 years later! It's inexpensive & fast.

 

Hyzenthlay in Pa.

[Pam L in Mid Tenn]

MUS covers geometry basics very well and reviews Al 1 concepts along the way.

[Tiramisu]

I second the recommendations for TT or MUS Geometry. I've heard of students getting through both of these programs in 1/2 a year. About the algebra problem, I think we may face the same issues. I think you and I should put it out of our heads for now and deal with it when the time comes. I agree with EKS in thinking that it should come back quickly once dd starts with it again.

[Jane in NC]

My 10th grader has been using Life of Fred Geometry and isn't really 'getting it.' Although we're half-way through the school year, I was planning to order Saxon's new geometry program this week (and wondering how easy it should be for a non-math oriented student to go through alone).

 

 

 

Gingerly stepping in here. A non-math oriented student may have a difficult time doing any program on his own. A new curriculum may not be the answer. Rather, I would suggest a tutor. Perhaps you have a neighbor or know someone from your church who is a retired engineer.

 

Math is a hard subject for most students to do independently (the exception being the highly math motivated). Some homeschool parents find video programs work for their students. Other students just need someone sitting at the table with them, assisting them with their work or answering questions as they go along. (Or maybe figuring things out with the student as they go along!)

 

My background is in mathematics. I have seen too many people think that a second (or third) curriculum may be the answer when the answer is a new methodology--one of involvement from someone who can explain principles, find errors, and help the student build confidence in himself.

 

Jane

[Susan C.]

I did BJU Algebra 1 with dd, then tried Chalkdust Traditional Geometry, it didn't work out, so we switched to BJU Geometry (w/dvds) in November. IMHO BJU dvds are the closest you can get to a tutor, there is a lot of instruction and the problems the kids question are usually the same ones dd didn't get. (the dvds are older taped classes) BJU Geometry is doing a good job of integrating algebra with geometry, so it is helping dd remember it. I have done BJU Algebra 2, and they do a good job of reviewing Algebra 1.

[Guest Psalm23]

Math is a hard subject for most students to do independently (the exception being the highly math motivated). Some homeschool parents find video programs work for their students. Other students just need someone sitting at the table with them, assisting them with their work or answering questions as they go along. (Or maybe figuring things out with the student as they go along!)

 

Thank you Jane -- and everyone else who took the time to answer.

 

We have talked about finding a tutor and are open to that, but my concern is that it still would only be once a week, so if he has problems during the lessons between meetings, he won't have anyone to ask. (Actually my DH has a strong math background, but after all these years even he has to study a bit to answer questions.)

 

If we hire a tutor, would it still not be advisable to switch to another curriculum? It seems that Life of Fred does not have enough practice. :confused:

 

My husband and I looked at a sample lecture from Teaching Textbooks. He says if we choose that, then I will need to sit there with DS and re-learn it myself so I can answer whatever questions arise (kind of what you said, Jane!). I was SO not wanting to have to do that!

[Jane in NC]

Thank you Jane -- and everyone else who took the time to answer.

 

We have talked about finding a tutor and are open to that, but my concern is that it still would only be once a week, so if he has problems during the lessons between meetings, he won't have anyone to ask. (Actually my DH has a strong math background, but after all these years even he has to study a bit to answer questions.)

 

If we hire a tutor, would it still not be advisable to switch to another curriculum? It seems that Life of Fred does not have enough practice. :confused:

 

My husband and I looked at a sample lecture from Teaching Textbooks. He says if we choose that, then I will need to sit there with DS and re-learn it myself so I can answer whatever questions arise (kind of what you said, Jane!). I was SO not wanting to have to do that!

 

Sorry not to be able to help you with the specifics of LofF since I am unfamiliar with the curriculum. Are there supplemental books with additional problems (or am I confusing LofF with another curriculum?) Jann in TX has done a fair amount of tutoring in geometry and could probably address the strengths and weaknesses of a number of curricula. We need Jann in the conversation. Let me PM her.

[Susan C.]

 

 

My husband and I looked at a sample lecture from Teaching Textbooks. He says if we choose that, then I will need to sit there with DS and re-learn it myself so I can answer whatever questions arise (kind of what you said, Jane!). I was SO not wanting to have to do that!

 

:iagree:

 

I agree with Jane by experience. My ds was able to get by with Chalkdust by looking at the solutions, and then looking at the problems, so he figured it out with a good bit of effort. DD wasn't up to that, and we sat and tried to figure it out, it took hours, and my middle aged brain that hadn't done geometry in 30 years, well..... it wasn't pretty. I have had friends wonder why I pay the $399 for the BJU math dvds, but tutoring costs at least that around here, and I like the help coming every day. I don't think once a week would ever be enough with my kids.

[Guest Psalm23]

Right. We did BJU DVDs for 9th grade, which included Algebra I. Even with the daily instruction, sometimes he got it, sometimes not. His brain works like mine, and mine hated math. :)

 

Thank you Jane, for inviting Jann in on the conversation. I look forward to her reply.

[Starr]

We like the Teaching Company Dvds in addition to dd's textbook.

[Jann in TX]

Geometry--I HATED it in high school--- I LOVE to teach it!

 

Geometry is one area of Mathematics that is still developing a standard--and because there is not a standard there are TONS of different programs--each with its own emphasis...

 

In reality a person could go on to be a perfectly competent rocket scientist WITHOUT taking a Geometry course! (I know I have a relative who is one!) My oldest dd is in college without taking Geometry (but she has some learning differences and we just could not fit it in--she won't miss it in her major!). Middle dd took it at the PS--I loved her program and HATED her teacher (and she felt the same way). I tutored most of dd's friends that year... instead of calling dd afterschool they called ME! ...

 

With so much variation how does one choose the 'right' program? It really comes down to what you desire in a program (logic, algebra reinforcement, problem solving skills, good SAT/ACT scores). I'm not sure if there is a perfect program out there--mainly because students in grades 9-11 are still developing their logic--and you CANNOT teach logical thinking--it is something that has to mature within the student--it can be fostered--but not taught. This is why I hated Geometry in 10th grade--my brain was not ready to handle that type of logical thinking--a few years later when I found myself teaching it it was SO MUCH EASIER...I matured!

 

TT's Geometry teaches to the SAT test and also provides some logic/proofs. It covers all the 'necessary bases' and is a solid program. You can e-mail them with questions on the homework...

 

MUS is bare bones--but adequate--not as deep or detailed but OK.

 

Chalkdust's program tries to do everything--just like most current PS texts. It encourages logical thinking, teaches the SAT type problems (formula work), has problem solving... but what to assign? It can be a bit much at times (again just like any PS text).

 

I'm using Jacobs 3e this year with my online classes. It is working GREAT for about half of the kids... the other half need more 'plug and chug' type problems--Jacobs 3e is 'discovery type learning' with very few actual problems like you would see on the SAT...it tries to develop logical and critical thinking but works best if the student thinks like Jacobs! I'm supplementing with other material so the other half of the class can learn too!

 

Next year I'm using Holt Geometry 2007 edition in my online classes--it is a PS text (same one my dd used). The supplements make the program and I was able to find them inexpensively after patiently looking around. Assigning homework is just not as simple as assigning all of the evens or odds.. as the teacher you really have to pick and choose--knowing when to supplement as needed. The Holt TE gives suggested assignments on varried levels so that helps some...there is still WAY TOO MUCH material to choose from... but I'll be able to tailor the class to each student without having to find outside supplements.

---

 

Now what would I do in the OP's situation....

Because each Geometry program is 'unique' it is HARD to supplement with outside materials--unless it is simple formula work. If you can find a local tutor willing to work with LOF and willing to search out or create supplemental problems that could be a good choice. Not all tutors are only once-a-week. I may have one session a week with my students but they are encouraged to e-mail me at any time with questions (e-mail because I tutor online).

 

While I don't like switching programs I have done it before and have had success... most likely you have not missed a full semester of a Geometry class...you just need some holes filled so you can move on. Choose a program that YOU and your student can deal with. Most get the job done.

 

I agree with Jane that a 'live' tutor is prefered over a video for students who are struggling... especially if the student's logic does not match up with the video instructor's!

 

Feel free to e-mail or pm me at any time with any additional questions...

[Storm Bay]

My dd has just completed LoF Geometry. There were times when she struggled. I found that by the time she got to the last 2 cities of each chapter she was finally on solid footing. We did augment with other Geometries, but mostly because I'm just that way with math. The other programs didn't suddenly make it click for her. I graded her only on those last two cities using them as tests, since they had no answers in the text book. I am simply going to put on the transcripts that her grades are 100 percent from tests.

 

I'd go with a tutor and have her continue LoF. You can always email specific questions to the author. I did that a couple of times. I have to agree with other posters that switching Geometry programs isn't necessarily the answer. It worked for us with other things, but Geometry is a way of thinking.