When do you consider evaluating for learning disability? very LONG

[TXMomof4]

My dd is 6 - she'll be 7 in May. She is not reading well and I am getting worried about it. My first two were reading well by the time they were 6. They could easily read chapter books like the Ramona series, Hank the Cowdog, etc. With this dd we're still working on reading CVC words fluently.

 

This is my most stubborn child by far. For example, she wanted her fuzzy pajamas to wear the other night. They were dirty so dh gave her some different pjs. She had a wall-eyed screaming fit, got sent to bed early and was furious because she didn't have the pjs she wanted. DH and I both went to talk to her before she went to sleep and she was reasonably calm - I thought the mess had blown over. The next morning I noticed she wasn't up at around 9 and went to wake her up. I came back and got started with school for the olders and another hour went by before I realized she wasn't in the kitchen eating. I went back upstairs and she was in bed "waiting for her fuzzy pjs." I told her I hadn't even started laundry so it would be several hours before they were ready to put on and she explained she would wait and proceeded to lay in bed for another hour until she was too hungry to stay there.

 

All that to say that once she sets her mind on something, that's the way it is. Period. She knows all of her letters sounds easily. She can sound out words well, but blending the sounds is where she gets lost. We had started with OPGTR last year and just floundered with that. I changed to LLATL blue so she'd get some variety instead of just a book with words thinking it would get her interested in reading and it went over like a lead balloon. She loved the cutting and pasting, but we didn't get any farther with the phonics. She loves playing games and will play letter matching, sound practicing games, but games with words or spelling words she won't play. We've tried starfall and various computer games. She is great at them until you get past cvc words and she simply won't go any farther. She just quits.

 

I can't tell if it is a real difficulty or if she has just decided she isn't going to do it. I can completely see her doing that. She starts before each lesson whining and crying about how much she hates reading. She has no desire to be able to read on her own. Given the option of looking at a book or sitting in a chair with nothing, she'll choose to do nothing. She is whizzing through math. I was worried because I'd let the workbook part of math slide while we were focusing on reading. When I pulled out the workbook she sat down and did all the addition and subtraction pages on her own. I sat to explain it and she told me "I KNOW how to do this Mom." She loves listening to history - we have SOTW on cd and she's the only one that will choose that to listen to just for fun. Science is great fun - she asks for it every day. Most specifically she wants to do experiments every day.

 

I'm not sure what to do with her. I've tried bribing her - a dime for every 5 minutes she sits and reads with me and really works at it. She doesn't like sweets or I'd try candy or ice cream. I've tried threats of the you can sit in your room til you decide to cooperate variety. I've taken away tv and computer because she told me tv is much more fun than reading. Right now we sit down and IF she feels like working we can make it through a bob book in about 15 minutes. If she doesn't feel like it it could take up toward an hour.

 

I need some advice here. Maybe she's just a late bloomer and it hasn't clicked yet. She has always been so intense - she's the only one of the 4 who had real screaming FITS. She still will just freak out about random things like her socks having bumps or the seam on her pants being itchy. She won't wear blue jeans at all because she doen't like how they feel. Period. These quirks I can work with but I don't know if there's something else going on that I'm missing. I don't know if reading and these quirks are the part of something larger or if I'm just being paranoid.

 

 

 

I've watched that magic moment with the older two where they just got it. This dd hasn't gotten it yet and I don't know what to do. I hate to think that I'm making her hate reading. I love reading- it's my favorite thing to do. I don't want to ruin it for her forever! :confused:

[Aunty Social]

Not much help here - just lots of sympathy! She sounds very much like my youngest ds. We had him evaluated as a toddler - he had speech delay, and still struggles with some sounds - and while they said he had some "unusual behaviours" he wasn't diagnosed with anything.

 

I'd let the reading go for now. Give her a complete break from it and then start up again in a few months. It may not hurt to have her evaluated, but you'll want to think about how to present it to her so that a) she cooperates and b) she doesn't feel like she's stupid (because she's obviously not!)

 

Best of luck....these are the kids that give us premature gray hair, yet end up also giving us the most joy!:lol:

[*********]

She still will just freak out about random things like her socks having bumps or the seam on her pants being itchy. She won't wear blue jeans at all because she doen't like how they feel. Period. These quirks I can work with but I don't know if there's something else going on that I'm missing. I don't know if reading and these quirks are the part of something larger or if I'm just being paranoid.

 

This part jumped out at me, because Moose is like that. He turned four in November, and he recently had his four year check-up with our pediatrician (yeah, it was like six weeks late, but I didn't want to take him in the middle of swine flu season. :tongue_smilie:)

 

Anyway, I had already done some research, and pretty much was sure that he had mild Sensory Processing Disorder. I discussed his symtoms with our ped, and she agrees. Moose doesn't like to wear blue jeans either; he'd prefer to live in soft pants like pj pants or sweats. He *will wear jeans, but doesn't care to, so I only put them on him when we're going out. He CANNOT wear a button up shirt or a zip up shirt. And by 'cannot', I mean it's not a discipline problem; he physically cannot stand the sensation of wearing clothes with 'things' touching him, like buttons or zippers; even with a t-shirt on underneath. Once, about almost a year ago, I insisted that he wear a zip up hoodie to the grocery store. He sat in the seat of the cart, with his hand clutched to the front of his shirt the entire time, just miserable. I mean, I was starting to think there was something pysically wrong with his arm, it was so hard for me to pry it away from his shirt. I remember that day clearly; it was when I finally realized that Moose had more than 'quirks', and that I needed to find out what was going on so I could both related to/understand him better, as well as help him.

 

Now, I haven't found a link between his SPD and and difficulty learning to read with Moose. In fact, he recently learned to read and spell many CVC words. But his SPD does affect other things. Like he has trouble concentrating if there's too much noise or movement going on around him, he's easily distracted, and he doesn't much like to sit still. But I thought I'd mention the SPD, since it popped out at me in your post.

 

HTH.

[Parrothead]

Wow. I wonder what happened to my post. I even edited it. Okay, let's try it again.

 

The clothing thing sounds like a sensory processing disorder. Some are mild and only need an understanding parent to help with socks, covering ears while flushing and the like. Some kids suffering from SPd are really suffering and need OT.

 

From what you said about her being able to read the Bob book if she is motivated says she doesn't have a learning disorder. Sounds a lot like she is stubborn. Try not making it easy to get by without reading. Read SOTW instead of listening to the CD, read about the science topic before doing experiments, everything possible has to be read before the fun starts.

[Jan in SC]

I would recommend an OT evaluation for possible sensory issues.

 

As for the reading issue, I wouldn't worry, yet. She is still young. I would work on the possible sensory issues soon, while continuing to teach a solid reading program. If at 7 1/2 you still see reading issues, while being consistent with a program, then I would consider testing. I wouldn't wait longer than that, though.

[TXMomof4]

I am sure there is some level of SPD with her. It doesn't seem to affect her daily life. I'm pretty relaxed with the clothing issues - it's something we just deal with and try not to make it a huge issue. I'll admit, somedays I want to scream when it's taking 30 minutes to get the socks arranged just so on the toes, but after we get them to her liking, we go on and it doesn't seem to affect her ability to function. I have cut out food with red dye in them and it does make a difference in her attitude.

 

I guess we'll just keep up with the cvc words/books and work on fluency there. Surely the child will have some desire someday to be able to read books on her own. I don't mind reading to her at all, but the time factor gets to be an issue with 3 other kids needing assistance with school. I keep hoping she'll get tired of waiting for me and use that stubborn attitude to "get it done!"

 

She is definately the one that will make me gray.

[LynneMcCormick]

I am sure there is some level of SPD with her. It doesn't seem to affect her daily life. I'm pretty relaxed with the clothing issues - it's something we just deal with and try not to make it a huge issue. I'll admit, somedays I want to scream when it's taking 30 minutes to get the socks arranged just so on the toes, but after we get them to her liking, we go on and it doesn't seem to affect her ability to function. I have cut out food with red dye in them and it does make a difference in her attitude.

 

I guess we'll just keep up with the cvc words/books and work on fluency there. Surely the child will have some desire someday to be able to read books on her own. I don't mind reading to her at all, but the time factor gets to be an issue with 3 other kids needing assistance with school. I keep hoping she'll get tired of waiting for me and use that stubborn attitude to "get it done!"

 

She is definately the one that will make me gray.

 

I have a daughter that does the same thing. She is a little stubborn, she has

SPD and we just found out she has a problem with her vision. She has a rare condition in her left eye and amblyopia. If she hasn't had her vision checked by an OPTOMETRIST, I would get it checked out to rule eye problems out. My daughter passed vision tests at her school and at the doctor visits, but they never caught her eye condition.

[Haiku]

It doesn't sound like she has a learning disability. My oldest, who is a freshman, has a learning disability and your dd sounds nothing like her.

 

It sounds like you dd has a sensory issue, so I would investigate getting some sessions with an occupational therapist.

 

As far as the reading goes, I'd let it go for a while. It sounds like your dd has set her mind against it, so I wouldn't fight this battle right now.

 

What I would work on is obedience. If you tell your dd to get up, she had better get up. Laying in bed sulking over pajamas for three hours shouldn't be allowed. Get her some more fuzzy pajamas so she's never without them and then her that disobeying a direct instruction, such as "Get up," will result in no tv or computer time for the day.

 

I understand that sensory issues can be hard for kids to deal with, but allowing them to stew in it for hours won't help them.

 

Tara

[dirty ethel rackham]

I am sure there is some level of SPD with her. It doesn't seem to affect her daily life. I'm pretty relaxed with the clothing issues - it's something we just deal with and try not to make it a huge issue. I'll admit, somedays I want to scream when it's taking 30 minutes to get the socks arranged just so on the toes, but after we get them to her liking, we go on and it doesn't seem to affect her ability to function.

 

If she spends 3 hours sulking in bed because she has to have her fuzzy pj's, having fits, or takes 30 minutes to get the socks just right, it is affecting her daily life. Now these are the biggies she is making a stink about. For kids with sensory issues like this, sensory stuff that we don't even feel can be a constant low level of discomfort. The brain is working very hard to deal with these, so learning is difficult. One mom described it to me like this: the tag on the back of the shirt is like a patch of thumbtack points. Buttons and zippers were like patches of sandpaper. What would seem to you as a soft inseam on some sweatpants is like a piece of burlap. For my son, being in a room with 10 people was like trying to have a conversation next to a jet engine. Having to deal with low levels of annoyances constantly does affect the brain's ability to put things together.

 

You can punish out the wazoo for the bad behavior or you can just roll with it, but the root problem doesn't go away. A child may learn coping mechanisms to not behave badly, but sometimes those coping mechanisms get in the way of learning as well.

 

Like I mentioned in my response to the duplicate post, sensory processing disorders commonly include auditory issues well. These can affect the ability put all the pieces together to learn to read.

[Closeacademy]

If she is not reading fluently by the end of third grade then she needs to be checked. That is what I have always heard. I have a stubborn dd like yours who in Kindergarten told me that she didn't need to learn to read, write or do math.

 

I let things drop for a few months and came from a more gentle approach. I used stories and pictures to introduce phonograms and their sounds. This past year, her reading has improved greatly but I don't force the issue. We use very easy books, I write out words letter by letter that she needs to sound out and over time she knows more and more words.

 

It can sometimes be a very long journey teaching reading. My oldest knew her letter sounds at 4, knew about 100 words by the end of K, could read the easiest of readers in 1st, read graphic novels in 3rd and is now in 4th only starting to read chapter books. She is also a child who is wired for math and science.

 

Don't worry about the reading, don't push her. Just take your time and let her learn at her own pace. Try to come up with some ways to make it more of a fun, cuddly time. You may need to take a break from it for a while and approach it from a different way.

 

The best advice I ever got about teaching reading was "Don't push." This mother said she pushed so much that it was hurting the relationship between her and her son.

 

Hope this helps.:001_smile:

[mktkcb]

A couple good books: Raising you Spirited Child, and Out of Sync Child. OOSC will give you a good overall picture of SPD, which it sounds like you dd hs to a mild degree. My son is VERY similar. Not over the top spd, but *there* iykwim. My son hates doing things he isn't good at. Period. Well....he hates some things he is good at also LOL, but he has a very low frustration tolerance. All the advice you've gotten is good.

[TXMomof4]

 

You can punish out the wazoo for the bad behavior or you can just roll with it, but the root problem doesn't go away. A child may learn coping mechanisms to not behave badly, but sometimes those coping mechanisms get in the way of learning as well.

 

Like I mentioned in my response to the duplicate post, sensory processing disorders commonly include auditory issues well. These can affect the ability put all the pieces together to learn to read.

 

Would I look to the schools for an assessment for SPD? We just moved and have a new doctor - I'm not sure of the approach for this type of thing in the military healthcare system.

 

She already has said she's dumb because she can't read. It's the hardest of hard fine lines to walk with her. If she's doing something she's comfortable with she's a shining star, but the second it gets hard she's convinced she'll never get it. I don't know whether to keep pushing so that it gets easier and she gains confidence or to drop it. If I drop it though she definately rejoices like she's gotten her way - which makes me think it's more of a discipline issue than a learning issue.

 

I appreciate all of your input. I'm having a homeschool confidence crisis with all of the kids, but this is the one I'm going to the loony bin over. I wonder if "homeschool confidence crisis" could be added to a medical dictionary. The cure - One ice cold Mike's - at 11:00 AM. :tongue_smilie:

[mom2att]

I'd start with your pediatrician and see what s/he says. Mine was little help, but I never got to the point where I felt like we needed to go the official diagnosis/therapy route. I would start with reading everything you can get your hands on regarding Sensory Processing Issues. An earlier poster recommended Raising Your Spirited Child (Kurcinka) and The Out-of-Sync Child (Kranowitz), I'll add The Explosive Child (Greene) and The Sensory-Sensitive Child (Smith and Grouze) to the list. My middle child is my challenge, and these books have helped me tremendously when it comes to understanding him and how best to address his issues, including handling discipline when what "should" work, doesn't.

 

Hang in there--she'll likely always be your most challenging, but also your most rewarding. My son has taught me more about parenting than the other two put together, and I love him all the more for it.

[dirty ethel rackham]

Would I look to the schools for an assessment for SPD? We just moved and have a new doctor - I'm not sure of the approach for this type of thing in the military healthcare system.

 

Some schools are proactive about this, but I think this is the exception rather than the rule. Many are just plain clueless. With my son, the school would not listen to anything I said about his sensory stuff and implied I was a pushover of a mom to let my son behave so badly. They only addressed his perceived receptive and expressive language delays (he really wasn't as bad as they said, but he could not perform under their testing requirements.)

 

Some pediatricians are knowledgeable and some are not. I would definitely pursue an OT evaluation. We didn't pursue that route because my son had auditory issues as well. I needed a more global approach rather than piecemeal fixes (due to time and energy issues.) I used NACD for therapy (NACD.org.) We have been VERY pleased with my son's progress.

 

She already has said she's dumb because she can't read. It's the hardest of hard fine lines to walk with her. If she's doing something she's comfortable with she's a shining star, but the second it gets hard she's convinced she'll never get it. I don't know whether to keep pushing so that it gets easier and she gains confidence or to drop it. If I drop it though she definately rejoices like she's gotten her way - which makes me think it's more of a discipline issue than a learning issue.

 

The poor girl. Black and white thinking is very common with SPD. Kids with sensory issues can be very unhappy due to the constant stress they are under, and that unhappiness manifests itself in behavior that appears to be manipulative. The usual response to manipulative behavior is punishment, but this can become a vicious cycle.

 

Someone else mentioned vision issues being a potential source of the problem. My son also had tracking issues that made it difficult to learn to read. Since his eyes were not working well together, he could not track on a line. My daughter had a similar issue, but not as severe. The optomistrist felt it was a maturity issue, but I didn't wait. I did many of the same exercises with my daughter that I did with my son. It seemed to help.

 

I appreciate all of your input. I'm having a homeschool confidence crisis with all of the kids, but this is the one I'm going to the loony bin over. I wonder if "homeschool confidence crisis" could be added to a medical dictionary. The cure - One ice cold Mike's - at 11:00 AM. :tongue_smilie:

I hear you on the crisis of confidence. I thought I was going to lose my mind over my son (actually, I had several friends worried about me.) He is now 13 and a joy to be around.

[Jen+4dc]

Would I look to the schools for an assessment for SPD? We just moved and have a new doctor - I'm not sure of the approach for this type of thing in the military healthcare system.

 

 

We're military tricare prime....ask your dd's new doc. If they can't help you ask for a referral. This is something that should be covered. I've never had a primary care doc that was obnoxious about anything, but if you do find one you should ask to switch primary care docs. That's always an option. If you're in a tiny place and there's only one primary care doc find your tricare patient rep. S/he should be able to help advocate for you and your dd.

 

Feel free to pm me if that doesn't help!

 

Good luck!:grouphug:

[Alenee]

Another vote for SPD issues and get the book The Out of Sync Child. I was able to get it at the library. There's also a companion book, The Out of Sync Child Has Fun. It details the different parts of the spectrum and activities to do at home for coping. I would also get an appt. for a behavioral optometrist. I just bought a book last week called Seeing Is Achieving and it has an evaluation in it as well as vision exercises. I thought I'd be hearing my oldest dd in the eval but it turns out it was my SPD child that rang true for behavioral vision issues. We'll be seeing a behavioral optometrist soon. This dd hated the idea of reading for quite some time and although she can read now (8yo in 3 weeks), she skips over words altogether, loses her place on the page, turns short words like 'saw' into 'was', etc. Worth checking out.

 

For a real thing you can do right away to help, cut out all red dye. It's in more food than you would expect. Once we cut that out, as well as sugar, dd became much more reasonable. A line I got from a mother who did the same was, "No sweets if you can't be sweet." I know you said she doesn't like sweets but sugar and HFCS are in everything. Just begin running out...don't try to replace the foods (especially for kids with SPD). This was the biggest help we received when we went to OT.

[Ottakee]

I agree with an evaluation for sensory issues.

 

That said, check out http://www.3rsplus.com for a WONDERFUL reading program that takes them from 6 sounds blended into 3 words all the way through the end of 3rd grade reading, in VERY VERY gentle steps. http://www.teacherweb.com/CA/PomeloDriveElementary/Mrssakamoto/printap2.stm is where you can see (and print) the frist 50 books for free.

 

Since she would be reading little books, it doesn't look as daunting as a big program. There are no worksheets, etc. either which is nice.

 

This does WORK. I got my 14 dd reading with this when nothing else would work. Her IQ tests at 38 WITH LDs and she is now reading at a 3rd grade level.

 

There is a yahoo group (search Beginning Reading Instruction) that is a wealth of information.

 

Feel free to ask more questions. I am not tied to this program at all--in fact it is in the public domain, I just tout it as it WORKS.