I'm throwing in the towel on History Odyssey

[nukeswife]

I've tried to use it for 3 years and if you do a search you'll find many posts by me singing it's praises. It is a great program but for some reason it never works out for us, I end up tweaking it so much that it no longer looks like the program it started out as.

 

My kids are asking to go back to SOTW which is what we ended up switching to each of the other years. They like the books and the AG. So I just went and bought the PDF of the activity guide for SOTW 3 and I'm going to go through the TOC and figure out what we've already covered this year and what's left.

 

Now I just have to make sure to break this cycle. I think it's my susceptibility to "the grass is greener" syndrome. I fall for it every time with history and I really need to realize that SWB has given me a gorgeous "yard" already.

[Snickerdoodle]

Thanks for this information.

[nukeswife]

After reading my first post I thought I'd expand on what exactly goes wrong.

 

1. after many tries my kids just don't get much out of history pockets.

2. HO doesn't have as many discussion questions.

3. My kids don't like the "unit study" approach HO uses. They would rather start as time 1, places A-Z and move from there jumping around the world. In HO they go place A from time 1-10, then place B from time 1-10, more of gradual around the world but jumping back and forth in time.

 

Those are the big 3 reasons, there are lots of time when HO just doesn't get done, for some reason we never had a problem getting SOTW done.

[Lovedtodeath]

Wow, I have seen you singing its praises.:lol:

[nukeswife]

Wow, I have seen you singing its praises.:lol:

 

Yes I sure have,and I'm starting to think I jumped the gun a bit. :leaving:

 

I can honestly say that I've given it a far shake and it's just not ever going to work as written and won't for us without major tweaking. I just feel like I skip so much or change so much that in the end it's not even what I bought.

[Carol in Cal.]

Yes I sure have,and I'm starting to think I jumped the gun a bit. :leaving:

 

I can honestly say that I've given it a far shake and it's just not ever going to work as written and won't for us without major tweaking. I just feel like I skip so much or change so much that in the end it's not even what I bought.

 

There was a lot to like about that program, but bottom line, it wasn't for us, we didn't stick to it, and it needed to be tweaked a lot.

[Wendy in ME]

I will just butt in to add that you just might want to give HO another look for logic stage history if you like the WTM way of history but would like it planned for you. After much personal experience with "the grass is greener syndrome" I am also doing SOTW 3 with my younger boys but we are loving HO level 2 for my 7th grader. It really is WTM logic history all planned out and complete with maps, scheduled outlining and challenging writing projects, historical fiction (we are also reading the literature listed in WTM), and worksheets to evaluate sources and conflicts.

[abbeyej]

I will just butt in to add that you just might want to give HO another look for logic stage history if you like the WTM way of history but would like it planned for you. After much personal experience with "the grass is greener syndrome" I am also doing SOTW 3 with my younger boys but we are loving HO level 2 for my 7th grader. It really is WTM logic history all planned out and complete with maps, scheduled outlining and challenging writing projects, historical fiction (we are also reading the literature listed in WTM), and worksheets to evaluate sources and conflicts.

 

Yes, we too are loving HO2, but choosing to do SOTW with AG for the younger one. I just don't see anything about HO1 that recommends it to me above SOTW with the AG... But HO2 has been great for my older one as it lays out exactly what he needs to do each day for logic-stage history. We jumped in with Middle Ages, and there was a bit of a learning curve for ds, but now that he has figured out how to get all of that writing done in a reasonable amount of time... Well, it has been great for him.

 

But I can see why the level 1 would be frustrating...

[nukeswife]

I will just butt in to add that you just might want to give HO another look for logic stage history if you like the WTM way of history but would like it planned for you. After much personal experience with "the grass is greener syndrome" I am also doing SOTW 3 with my younger boys but we are loving HO level 2 for my 7th grader. It really is WTM logic history all planned out and complete with maps, scheduled outlining and challenging writing projects, historical fiction (we are also reading the literature listed in WTM), and worksheets to evaluate sources and conflicts.

 

Yes, we too are loving HO2, but choosing to do SOTW with AG for the younger one. I just don't see anything about HO1 that recommends it to me above SOTW with the AG... But HO2 has been great for my older one as it lays out exactly what he needs to do each day for logic-stage history. We jumped in with Middle Ages, and there was a bit of a learning curve for ds, but now that he has figured out how to get all of that writing done in a reasonable amount of time... Well, it has been great for him.

 

But I can see why the level 1 would be frustrating...

 

This is something I've been thinking of. I'm not sure I could pull together logic stage history ala WTM by myself, but like you both said for grammar stage SOTW just seems to be a better option for us.

[Lovedtodeath]

If there is nothing new out, I am currently planning to use HO 2 along with whatever other resources we use for logic stage.:)

[coffeegal]

I will just butt in to add that you just might want to give HO another look for logic stage history if you like the WTM way of history but would like it planned for you. After much personal experience with "the grass is greener syndrome" I am also doing SOTW 3 with my younger boys but we are loving HO level 2 for my 7th grader. It really is WTM logic history all planned out and complete with maps, scheduled outlining and challenging writing projects, historical fiction (we are also reading the literature listed in WTM), and worksheets to evaluate sources and conflicts.

 

:iagree: My older 3 are using HO level 2. My 5th grader's in Ancients, 6th grader's in Medieval, and my 7th grader's using Early Modern. It's a wonderful fit. So wonderful that I looked at using HO instead of SOTW + AG with my 1st grader. :eek: That's a lot more history than I care to do with a 6yo!

[Susie in CA]

Actually, doing history the WTM way as described in the book turned out to be much simpler for us then HO. We started this year with Ancients Level 2. It was a total flop. We are now doing History ala WTM and it is so much simpler and more fun. We won't be using it in the future.

 

Susie

[angela&4boys]

...Now I just have to make sure to break this cycle. I think it's my susceptibility to "the grass is greener" syndrome. I fall for it every time with history and I really need to realize that SWB has given me a gorgeous "yard" already.

 

Well said. It's helpful when other mama's confess their weaknesses. That way I don't like to feel like the lone ranger! Lol.

 

And fwiw, we switched from SOTW (via Biblioplan) to something else and I regretted it. We went back to SOTW and everyone was happy again. :)

 

And I don't know if it appeals to you, but notebooking pages help curb my appetite when I'm tempted to buy another program. They're a nice visual, place for narrations, and keepsake. We've used and enjoyed the ones from holdthatthought.com, notebookingpages.com, and some Medieval ones from currclick as well.

Edited November 16, 2009 by angela&4boys

[abbeyej]

Actually, doing history the WTM way as described in the book turned out to be much simpler for us then HO. We started this year with Ancients Level 2. It was a total flop. We are now doing History ala WTM and it is so much simpler and more fun. We won't be using it in the future.

 

Really? I felt that HO2 followed the WTM recommendations (I have the 1st ed) for logic stage pretty strictly. Outlining, summarizing, keeping a record of people and events, a timeline, and organizing it all into a notebook... It just takes much of the planning and organizing and does it for me.

 

We did add in a few more assigned books. Most of the books assigned in HO2MA are straight from the 6th grade required reading list in WTM (I think 6th is the first year with such a list), but it left off a few that I considered important. We added those back in (along with some other literature not connected to the historical period)...

[nukeswife]

Well said. It's helpful when other mama's confess their weaknesses. That way I don't like to feel like the lone ranger! Lol.

 

And fwiw, we switched from SOTW (via Biblioplan) to something else and I regretted it. We went back to SOTW and everyone was happy again. :)

 

And I don't know if it appeals to you, but notebooking pages help curb my appetite when I'm tempted to buy another program. They're a nice visual, place for narrations, and keepsake. We've used and enjoyed the ones from holdthatthought.com, notebookingpages.com, and some Medieval ones from currclick as well.

 

I just bought some science pages from notebookingpages.com for my dd, I'll have to take a look at the history ones, in the past I had my kids just do oral narrations and didn't write them down. It's a good idea to start writing them down and if they had a nice page to go on that would be a bonus.

[MyLittleWonders]

I think that is my biggest complaint with HO too ... I don't like the jumping around. As of yet, my boys haven't seemed to notice, but it drives me batty. I actually decided to stop following the order of HO (we are in level 1, Middle Ages) and instead follow the order of the chapters in SOTW, using the resources in HO instead of doing the lessons in the order of HO, if that makes any sense. ;) I already purchased the e-book version of Early Modern times, and think I might do the same thing. We wil read SOTW in order of the chapters, and just use the lessons/resources from HO as I need them.

[LunaLee]

Really? I felt that HO2 followed the WTM recommendations (I have the 1st ed) for logic stage pretty strictly. Outlining, summarizing, keeping a record of people and events, a timeline, and organizing it all into a notebook... It just takes much of the planning and organizing and does it for me.

 

We did add in a few more assigned books. Most of the books assigned in HO2MA are straight from the 6th grade required reading list in WTM (I think 6th is the first year with such a list), but it left off a few that I considered important. We added those back in (along with some other literature not connected to the historical period)...

 

I agree with Abbey. I have always felt that HO does a really good job of laying out what the WTM says. The only problem I've ever had with it is when I try to combine it with SOTW-at least with the Ancients. Then it just makes me crazy.

[nd293]

Yes, we too are loving HO2, but choosing to do SOTW with AG for the younger one. I just don't see anything about HO1 that recommends it to me above SOTW with the AG...

 

That's exactly what I thought when I bought HO1 for Middle Ages. I just couldn't get what it was supposed to be offering that SOTW+AG didn't already offer. But I will look at HO again for Logic Stage, based on what I hear here.

[angela&4boys]

I just bought some science pages from notebookingpages.com for my dd, I'll have to take a look at the history ones, in the past I had my kids just do oral narrations and didn't write them down. It's a good idea to start writing them down and if they had a nice page to go on that would be a bonus.

 

Another option might be to do it WWE style; copy what they say down and then have them copy one or two sentences or the whole narration.

[Sweet Home Alabama]

I'd love to get your opinion about using History Odyssey Level 2 Ancients with a 7th and a 6th grader.

 

I'm thinking about using that along with My Father's World Creation to Greeks for my 2nd grader and use SOTW to complement everyone.

 

I'm also planning to use IEW's ancient history themed writing because we've had so much success using early American history themed writing this year.

 

Pros: All children cover the same history.

All enjoy the perks of MFW.

My older kids work on the logic level with HO.

 

Cons: HO Level 2 Ancients doesn't look quite like 7th grade level history

just looking at the sample, so I cna't decide if this plan is too much

or just right. (HO Level 2 Modern is what they say is written for

7th grade.)

 

There might be too much writing. In that case, I think I would just

stick with IEW and use only the HO writing that would be beneficial.

 

Ok. Good plan or too much? I don't want to struggle through history. I really want a balanced plan that is enjoyable and do-able.

 

If I don't use HO, I'm planning to follow WTM suggestions to use a spine for listing a few facts followed by researching something from that list of facts and outlining from a different source. We haven't done a lot of outlining except from our IEW early American history this year. My goal is to have them ready for high school, of course. And I'm hoping these curriculua choices will help them to think and write logically.

 

One more question.... Given that I would use both HO and MFW, would I need all recommended resources for HO or could I leave something out that would be redundant or just not necessary???

 

If I could come to a decision about this particular point, I think I'll be set for history for next year. If you can help, I'd be so thankful!:001_smile:

[Susie in CA]

I agree with both you in that it is very much like the WTM in layout. It bogged us down, though. We all started feeling like we have to do this and that and the other. With the original WTM approach I can let my son pick the extra research he wants to do and this is so much more pleasant for us.

 

For example in Lesson 4 it would tell us to write summary sentences for cuneiform, ziggurats, city-states and Mesopotamia. There are several issues we had with this list.

1. It made us feel like we had to write something about all of these things. I know, we don't have to but.... you get the point.

2. I actually find a huge benefit in having my son "think" about what he could write about more. He won't do that if he has a list provided but he will when he does not.

3. Maybe there is something entirely different on the reading pages that interests him more; like reed houses. Why not read and write about that?

4. Lists simply overwhelm us. :D

 

I hope this explains a little more of why HO didn't work for us. I am not saying at all that it is a bad program. In fact, I still like it and I do refer to it from time to time. We just find History ala WTM much simpler and, more importantly, much more fun.

 

Susie

 

I agree with Abbey. I have always felt that HO does a really good job of laying out what the WTM says. The only problem I've ever had with it is when I try to combine it with SOTW-at least with the Ancients. Then it just makes me crazy.

[Capt_Uhura]

HHmm I'm seriously considering HO Ancients 2. I was thinking of keeping my 1st grader in SOTW and tweaking it to match the sequence of HO. Never thought of tweaking HO to match the sequence of SOTW. I like that HO may provide some structure but I think I'm OK with tweaking as the previous poster mentioned....allowing DS to write about reed houses instead of ziggurats. At any rate, I think I will do the first lessons which can be downloaded and see how it goes. If not, we'll try winging a WTM history notebook on our own and just using the maps from SOTW1.

 

decisions decisions...

 

Capt_Uhura

[Avila]

Ok. Good plan or too much? I don't want to struggle through history. I really want a balanced plan that is enjoyable and do-able.

 

 

 

TOO MUCH. Probably WAY too much.

 

If you want to do HO with the older two, I would just do HO. You can add in extra reading, but I would not combine HO with another full program. HO Ancients 2 is plenty of work on its own, as is MFW, even for a 7th grader. And IMO, HO would not make a good supplement to another program. You could add in whatever component of HO you like to MFW without buying HO for a lot less money and aggravation.

 

We really like HO, but there is no way I would try to combine it with something and expect to keep my sanity.

 

MFW would honestly be a full program for all three kids, and it would probably be overkill for just a second grader. Part of the appeal of MFW is the ability to combine all your children, so using it for just the youngest one and having the others do something else would be a lot more work than it was worth.

 

If it were me, I would either a) do MFW with all three children; b) do HO with the oldest two and just do SOTW with the AG for the youngest, without worrying about how/whether the time periods line up; or c) put them all in Biblioplan Ancients and add in outlining and maybe IEW for the oldest two.

 

If you really want a balanced and enjoyable plan, you really need to simplify here.

 

Best wishes!

[Saille]

After reading my first post I thought I'd expand on what exactly goes wrong.

 

 

3. My kids don't like the "unit study" approach HO uses. They would rather start as time 1, places A-Z and move from there jumping around the world. In HO they go place A from time 1-10, then place B from time 1-10, more of gradual around the world but jumping back and forth in time.

 

I didn't realize this. That would drive me crazy.

[Capt_Uhura]

LOL for my friend who is a history buff, SOTW jumping around drives her crazy. :lol:

[Avila]

I didn't realize this. That would drive me crazy.

 

I totally understand. Biblioplan does the same thing, and it is very difficult to get used to. I think this either appeals to you or it doesn't, and if you try to do it in a way that isn't intuitive for YOU, it will continue to be aggravating. Honestly, this is my only real complaint with HO and one of the main reasons I have mostly dropped Biblioplan. With HO, my DD is working mostly independently, so I am not confronted with it all the time. With Biblioplan, I am actually teaching it that way, and it is frustrating!

[Sweet Home Alabama]

TOO MUCH. Probably WAY too much.

 

If you want to do HO with the older two, I would just do HO. You can add in extra reading, but I would not combine HO with another full program. HO Ancients 2 is plenty of work on its own, as is MFW, even for a 7th grader. And IMO, HO would not make a good supplement to another program. You could add in whatever component of HO you like to MFW without buying HO for a lot less money and aggravation.

 

We really like HO, but there is no way I would try to combine it with something and expect to keep my sanity.

 

MFW would honestly be a full program for all three kids, and it would probably be overkill for just a second grader. Part of the appeal of MFW is the ability to combine all your children, so using it for just the youngest one and having the others do something else would be a lot more work than it was worth.

 

If it were me, I would either a) do MFW with all three children; b) do HO with the oldest two and just do SOTW with the AG for the youngest, without worrying about how/whether the time periods line up; or c) put them all in Biblioplan Ancients and add in outlining and maybe IEW for the oldest two.

 

If you really want a balanced and enjoyable plan, you really need to simplify here.

 

Best wishes!

 

 

Thank you so much! You confirmed what I expected, and I'm sure now that without HO we'll have a smoother year! :001_smile:

[TechWife]

I will just butt in to add that you just might want to give HO another look for logic stage history if you like the WTM way of history but would like it planned for you. After much personal experience with "the grass is greener syndrome" I am also doing SOTW 3 with my younger boys but we are loving HO level 2 for my 7th grader. It really is WTM logic history all planned out and complete with maps, scheduled outlining and challenging writing projects, historical fiction (we are also reading the literature listed in WTM), and worksheets to evaluate sources and conflicts.

:iagree:

[TechWife]

I think that is my biggest complaint with HO too ... I don't like the jumping around.

 

HO Level 2, Early Modern does not jump around - it is chronological.

[MyLittleWonders]

HO Level 2, Early Modern does not jump around - it is chronological.

That's good to read about level 2. I do like the overall feel of HO, but have decided for my sanity with level 1, to make HO confirm to the order in SOTW.