Would you promote a relationship with dysfunctional grandma??

[Rachel]

My kids are 13 and 15 years old. Grandma lives 1 mile away with her new husband of 2 years after Grandpa died 3 years ago.

 

This is a woman who has never shown any interest in her grandkids at all. In the 8 years she has lived within a mile of our house she has had our kids spend the night at her house less than a dozen times............all were before Grandpa died. Never since.

 

This is a woman who constantly talks about how important family is to her but yet has never called our house to talk to her grandkids, who stopped coming to church when my husband had to start working on Sundays even though the rest of us still go there, and BTW Sunday mornings is the ONLY time we ever see her except for Christmas and Easter by our invitation.

 

Over the years we have mentioned our concerns to her to no avail........it always comes back to "its all about her"........she is a true narcissist and cannot see things from anyone else's point of view or how actions affect anyone but herself. We have tried to provide opportunities for her to see the kids, we have encouraged her to ask them to do things.......she makes promises to them and then never follows through.

 

These are her only grandchildren, and my husband is her only son. She will have lunch with my husband during the work week to see him occassionally but never with the kids or me.

 

So today she shows up for church after 2 months AWOL and asks the kids if they want to go see some drummers at the theatre (which her and her new husband are heavily involved). None of the kids want to go. She does a guilt trip on my 13yo daughter how she rather spend time with her grandkids than her friends but she'll give the tickets to friends if she doesn't want to go.

 

So we get in the car and the kids are talking about what a joke it is that Grandma says she wants to spend time with them and how she never does. They also tell me they don't want to go and am I going to make them.

 

I'm really at the point that they are old enough to make their own decisions about if they want to spend time with her or not. So as far as I'm concerned if they don't want to go........I'm not going to make them. Also, I'm done going out of my way to make excuses for her or trying to convince her to spend time with her grandkids.

 

This whole thing makes my husband and I both furious, but we realize we can't change her. Fortunately my mom lives next door and spends lots of time with the kids so at least they have one grandparent that loves them dearly.

 

So, would you force your kids to go and/or keep making excuses?

[Storm Bay]

At this age, I think they ought to have a say in it given the circumstances. While I do believe in family duty, I think it's for situations where there is giving on both parts. The way you described it, it's not.

[Joanne]

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My kids are 13 and 15 years old. Grandma lives 1 mile away with her new husband of 2 years after Grandpa died 3 years ago.

 

This is a woman who has never shown any interest in her grandkids at all. In the 8 years she has lived within a mile of our house she has had our kids spend the night at her house less than a dozen times............all were before Grandpa died. Never since.

 

This is a woman who constantly talks about how important family is to her but yet has never called our house to talk to her grandkids, who stopped coming to church when my husband had to start working on Sundays even though the rest of us still go there, and BTW Sunday mornings is the ONLY time we ever see her except for Christmas and Easter by our invitation.

 

Over the years we have mentioned our concerns to her to no avail........it always comes back to "its all about her"........she is a true narcissist and cannot see things from anyone else's point of view or how actions affect anyone but herself.

 

 

Reading the above:

 

Would you promote a relationship with dysfunctional grandma??

 

No. I would mourn the loss of a relatively normal grandma. I'd try to see if I could find a way to fill the role in ways unrelated to the biological g'ma.

[Mrs Mungo]

At this age, I think they ought to have a say in it given the circumstances. While I do believe in family duty, I think it's for situations where there is giving on both parts. The way you described it, it's not.

 

I agree with this.

[PariSarah]

By that, I mean that I would insist that we owe G'ma respect and care, even if we can't bring ourselves to share our lives with her the way we would with a "normal" g'ma. So, no, I wouldn't try to have the open-arms, open-hearts thing (or at least, not unless some major relational healing takes place), but I would encourage the kids to maintain some sort of relationship with her.

 

Your kids sound like they're old enough to have some input into how that can happen. You don't need to let her guilt trips and desires determine exactly what sort of things they should be doing with her. You can set the terms of the relationship, and that can include stopping her if she's saying something manipulative or rude or abusive to your kids.

 

But it sounds like they're young enough that they still need to be told, "Blowing g'ma off, even if she's not the best g'ma, is not an option."

 

What sort of things can you share with her? Activities you can invite her to (even if she's constantly turning you down)? Things that she does that you would want to join her for? Is there anything in your/their relationship with her that is working? Is she pleasant when she comes at Christmas and Easter? Can they make a big deal about making her favorite dessert for her? Have them look for tangible ways that they can express their respect and care for her, even though they know she will likely never appreciate it the way she should.

 

Edited to add: I know--I know--how hard it is when there's an element of hypocrisy involved. A certain Boundaries Challenged Relative of mine LOVES to show off ds for the crowds. He makes us all look good, of course, and BCR is particularly anxious to cash in on some of the glory with colleagues from work or friends at church or whatever. Yet this is the same BCR who challenges, corrects, and criticizes every. d@mn. one. of our parenting decisions. It's hard to sit by and see the results of our parenting garner BCR credit with BCR's friends and colleagues when that parenting gets called into question all. the. time. Or to have BCR brag on us, only because it makes BCR look good for being such a caring, supportive relative.

 

So I know how hard it is to be working on the relationship, to be focused on what you can do right rather than what they're doing wrong. It's not fun. I know. But it's worth it. And sometimes, it even helps.

[Jennifer in NH]

I would have my DH still visit or have lunch with his mother as often as he does now or at least once or twice a month...I would let my kids decide for themselves what they want to do. When I was around this woman I would be civil, courteous and that's about it.

 

Good luck, I am glad your mother lives close by and has a good relationship with her grandchildren...but, lots of kids either grow up away from all grandparents or with grandparents who have already passed away.

[Old Dominion Heather]

By that, I mean that I would insist that we owe G'ma respect and care, even if we can't bring ourselves to share our lives with her the way we would with a "normal" g'ma. So, no, I wouldn't try to have the open-arms, open-hearts thing (or at least, not unless some major relational healing takes place), but I would encourage the kids to maintain some sort of relationship with her.

 

...

 

Have them look for tangible ways that they can express their respect and care for her, even though they know she will likely never appreciate it the way she should.

 

:iagree:Sarah is right on the mark here. I think that you have something to be gained by teaching your kids to treat her with respect and love, even when she has not earned it. My dh's parents live pretty close... they have never even watched the kids for us, or offered to do so. But, that is their personality. They love the kids, in their own way, as best they can. It does make me glad that my mom is the polar opposite, though!

 

We stress all the good that dh's parents do for them... prayers, an occasional small gift and just skip over the rest.

[Plaid Dad]

I would have my DH still visit or have lunch with his mother as often as he does now or at least once or twice a month...I would let my kids decide for themselves what they want to do. When I was around this woman I would be civil, courteous and that's about it.

 

Same here. :iagree:

[Danestress]

I would promote it but I wouldn't insist on this particular outing. I would encourage them to spend time with her - even for short periods - and show her love and attention, and I would try to love her for loving my husband even if she didn't love me.

 

I imagine on some level she's somehow a wounded person. Most dysfunctional people didn't make a choice to be that way. No one signs up to be a Narcissist. That uusually come from some kind of deep emotional wound.

 

So I wouldn't want to be in a position where I am forcing kids to do something they really don't want to do, but I would ask them to consider alternative ways of getting to know Grandma. And I would try not to resent her for not being more attentive to me and the kids.

[Adrianne]

 

But it sounds like they're young enough that they still need to be told, "Blowing g'ma off, even if she's not the best g'ma, is not an option."

 

 

I agree with PariSarah here but I would use caution. If G'ma is giving out guilt trips it will continue when you are not around to help them deal with it. This could potentially cause further harm to their relationship.

 

We do reap what we sow, and in this case the lack of relationship between the G'ma and kids is what she has sown over these many years. Now the kids do not know her (or expect a guilt trip) and do not want to be around her. She cannot force them to have one because she wants it. Relationships are grown and nurtured - not forced.

 

I would encourage you to encourage them to have a relationship with her, out of love and respect but in no way force them to have one. They already see her occasionally, probably already against their will. Also, focus on the loving relationship they have with the other G'ma.

 

I would also make sure not to have negative discussions around the kids that would influence how they feel about her. They are old enough to begin to form relationships on their own and damaging words from you will not help.

 

Try not to think about it so much. Just focus on the good loving relationships around them. Sometimes letting go and dealing with these situations as they occur - calmly - can work the best. Obsessing over it can just make you crazy:tongue_smilie:

 

Just know, you are not in this alone, my dh and I have the same struggles with my mother - only she tries to manipulate them with gifts and money and they are much younger! GRRRR!!!!

 

Good luck! I pray it works out for you.

[Carol in Cal.]

But I don't think that I would want them to go without me.

 

I would not want them to be in a position where they would be made to have to seem to believe something that is not true, something that makes them doubt their own observations a lot, something that strikes at the heart of what it is to be a whole person. That whole 'surreal world' thing is the most fundamental demonstration of disfunction.

 

If you have avoided this in your immediate family, then you just being there would be the touchstone that would let them believe their own eyes.

 

You would see the unbelievable, and would be able to support them in not believing it. Maybe not right that minute, but later.

 

I would not make them attend this function.

 

I would include her in some of the things that you invite others to, but in such a way as to make sure that her attendance or behavior don't make or break the event.

 

I would not try to stop your DH from visiting her alone, but I would probably join in from time to time, in a breezy, cheerful way; without necessarily clearing it in advance.

 

I would explicitly tell your children what kind of grandmother you expect and hope to be. I would not badmouth their current one.

[Rachel]

I really appreciate all the thoughtful responses here. I'm afraid I have been guilty of the occassional snide remark about G-Ma but I am trying to bite my tongue so as to let my children make up their own minds.

 

I agree about showing respect, regardless of her actions/or lack thereof.......I just have difficulty going out of my way to encourage it when I see so much hypocrisy between what she says and does.

 

To clear up the lunches with my husband..........these aren't about my husband...and she really could care less about him almost as much as the rest of us (a sad realization for my husband, but one he has come to deal with)........the lunches are about her. So, she can tell him what SHE is up to and about her life and about her friends. She doesn't ask about him or the family or anything else that isn't about her. That is just how she is.

 

I think letting my kids have their say in these kinds of situations is the right answer, but making sure they show her respect when they DO see her is the other part of that answer.

 

Obviously the difficulty for me is my maternal instinct getting the best of me. I see someone who has the opportunity to be a great grandparent, and they won't and I know it must hurt my kids in some way........so that in turn makes my hackles raise up and I want to protect them.

[OnTheBrink]

I really appreciate all the thoughtful responses here. I'm afraid I have been guilty of the occassional snide remark about G-Ma but I am trying to bite my tongue so as to let my children make up their own minds.

 

I agree about showing respect, regardless of her actions/or lack thereof.......I just have difficulty going out of my way to encourage it when I see so much hypocrisy between what she says and does.

 

To clear up the lunches with my husband..........these aren't about my husband...and she really could care less about him almost as much as the rest of us (a sad realization for my husband, but one he has come to deal with)........the lunches are about her. So, she can tell him what SHE is up to and about her life and about her friends. She doesn't ask about him or the family or anything else that isn't about her. That is just how she is.

 

I think letting my kids have their say in these kinds of situations is the right answer, but making sure they show her respect when they DO see her is the other part of that answer.

 

Obviously the difficulty for me is my maternal instinct getting the best of me. I see someone who has the opportunity to be a great grandparent, and they won't and I know it must hurt my kids in some way........so that in turn makes my hackles raise up and I want to protect them.

 

 

I SO relate to where you're at. I actually had put in my divorce papers that dd not be alone with MIL at all, ever. She's that bad. The last think I want is her influencing or hurting dd when I'm not there to shield it.

 

I agree with letting the kids decide whether they want to go with her, etc, but they do need to show the proper attitude and demeanor when she's present.

[Jennifer in NH]

The point I was trying to make about your dh seeing his mother for lunches wasn't anything but to show respect for the woman who raised him. Even if all she does is talk about herself, I really think, as adult "children" we all need to show a certain amount of respect for our parents(if those parents were abusive I reserve the right to change my opinion). Having an occasional lunch, or chat on the phone, is just the right thing for him to do.

 

again though, I hope this all works out for you and your family.

[Rachel]

Jennifer, I agree and that is EXACTLY the reason he does it.....not because he likes to, but because he knows it is the right thing to do.

[Valerie in Chicago]

Rachel, you and I should go to lunch and compare MIL notes! But it looks like you're getting good advice here. Show respect, of course, but emotional distance from her doesn't sound like it would be a tragedy either. It's so great that your DH has lunch with her regularly.

 

Something that I've started to do with our DC is to just very rarely even mention MIL. Yeah, of course she comes up now and then. An annual summer visit. Gifts at holidays and birthdays. But I try really hard to take the "if you can't say something nice..." approach. And then I vent it out with girlfriends! My own mom had the Mother of All Evil MIL's, and she somehow managed to take this approach with us, which only paid off for her (my mom) in the end.

 

The luxury in my case is that my MIL is in CO. I'd be at a total loss in your situation! But know that you are ever-so-much-very-definitely not alone!

[Rachel]

LOL Valerie...........I know that there are a lot worse MIL out there and frankly I should be grateful that I don't have to deal with her more often.

 

I think by taking the high road we eliminate becoming the victim.

 

My mom used to always tell me that nobody can make you mad, you CHOOSE to be mad............

 

I hate it when she's right!!!:D

[Peek a Boo]

Eliana offered a wonderfully complete answer :-)

 

However, I would make sure that this grandma is told WHY her g-kids don't want to see her. I would NOT put up w/ her giving my kids a guilt trip: respect is a two-way street.

 

I *would* try to encourage a relationship if grandma really wants one: "hey- since you mentioned wanting to spend time w/ the kids, why don't you come over for dinner?"

 

I would continue offering the dinner invite for 10 days straight [or other activity]. If she continues to refuse, i would ask her the same thing she asked your kids: 'hm, well, we really wanted to spend time w/ grandma rather than friends, but if grandma doesn't want to spend time w/ us then we'll just invite friends.' I would then point out that the wording is taken DIRECTLY from grandma's own reasoning. but that's just me :)

 

I do think it is ok to let grandma know that she is not *expected* to be The Perfect Grandma either -- let her know that along the lines Eliana mentioned you will NOT be judging everything she does based on some preconceived grandma notion.

 

And yeah-- I would try to cut back on the snark towards grandma :-)

[PrairieAir]

No, I would not. It seems you have tried and she has refused. If she offers something like this and the kids want to go, I'd let them--if she isn't a wacko. If the kids don't want to go, they have just as much right as grandma to say no.

 

One of my grandmothers was very narcissistic. The things she did to her own children over the years, and to a lesser extent her grandchildren, were horrible. It was always about her. She was very manipulative. After I got married and had kids, we lived far enough away from her that staying out of all that mess wasn't much of an issue. My kids only saw three or four times and that was enough to have vague memories of having a great grandmother on my side without all the drama and trauma. If we had lived closer, I would have made sure that she had no more power and influence in our lives than she had with a whole state in between us. She screwed up her own children enough, played favorites among grandchildren as some sort of psychological experiment, and warped relationships beyond repair.

 

One of dh's grandmothers is also very narcissistic and manipulative. She has always lived fairly close, but we've learned to deal with her behavior. (She's not as malicious as my grandmother was.) When she is behaving badly, we simply refuse to play her games and stop coming around to visit. When we do see her now, I am very wary and I admit that I remain very distant. Dh has said that he does not care if he ever sees her again. The way she and dh's uncle have treated his mom and dad is inexusable. If his mom didn't care so much about maintaining a relationship with her, we never would see her again. We do it for MIL only, but we also have conditions set up for visiting. If she begins behaving badly, we leave. She has a tendency to shower the boys with affection and to pick at oldest dd in particular and I won't stand for that.

 

Whew! I'm going to stop now. Sorry for the tirade. We just saw dh's grandmother yesterday, and while she behaved herself, it was very cold and uncomfortable.

 

I would require my kids to be respectful and polite but not to show interest in or affection for a grandmother who has repeatedly disappointed them and not shown the least bit of interest or affection towards them. And if she's toxic, I would just completely distance myself from her.

 

Added later: I won't erase all of the above and keep everyone wondering, but Eliana's answer is better. It's probably the right way to be, but I don't feel like being "right" right now:P I probably let my own experiences color my answer too much and your dh's mom probably is not nearly as bad as dh's or my grandmothers. Oh well. I guess I needed to vent.

[Peek a Boo]

actually, prairie air, that's kind of exactly what I have w/ my own mom, lol.

 

she's not physically or emotionally *abusive*, but emotionally manipulative? oh. yeah. I allow supervised visits about twice a year so the kids can get their gifts and she can watch the kids perform in a play [well, more so THEY can have the extra audience ;-P...], but I don't call her anymore than i need to. That ends up being about three times a year. And that's more than I did the first several years.

[Rachel]

Prarie Air...........while our situations may not be exactly alike, there are many similarities.

 

A sad realization came when DH's dad was dying 3 years ago and all DH could think is why could SHE go first.......we were actually terrified at the thought of being left with HER. Fortunately she latched onto some guy 2 months after he died (that's a whole other hurt we have), moved in with him and got married 9 months later. Whew!

 

My husband has constantly said he would be perfectly happy to never see her again. He was driving with my mom to son's basketball game last week (I was working) and apparently he told my mom that he has more feelings for her than he's ever had for his own mother. That makes me happy and makes my heart break at the same time for him.

 

Some people should never be allowed to parent children

[Call Me Cordelia]

My kids are 13 and 15 years old. Grandma lives 1 mile away with her new husband of 2 years after Grandpa died 3 years ago.

 

This is a woman who has never shown any interest in her grandkids at all. In the 8 years she has lived within a mile of our house she has had our kids spend the night at her house less than a dozen times............all were before Grandpa died. Never since.

 

This is a woman who constantly talks about how important family is to her but yet has never called our house to talk to her grandkids, who stopped coming to church when my husband had to start working on Sundays even though the rest of us still go there, and BTW Sunday mornings is the ONLY time we ever see her except for Christmas and Easter by our invitation.

 

Over the years we have mentioned our concerns to her to no avail........it always comes back to "its all about her"........she is a true narcissist and cannot see things from anyone else's point of view or how actions affect anyone but herself. We have tried to provide opportunities for her to see the kids, we have encouraged her to ask them to do things.......she makes promises to them and then never follows through.

 

These are her only grandchildren, and my husband is her only son. She will have lunch with my husband during the work week to see him occassionally but never with the kids or me.

 

So today she shows up for church after 2 months AWOL and asks the kids if they want to go see some drummers at the theatre (which her and her new husband are heavily involved). None of the kids want to go. She does a guilt trip on my 13yo daughter how she rather spend time with her grandkids than her friends but she'll give the tickets to friends if she doesn't want to go.

 

So we get in the car and the kids are talking about what a joke it is that Grandma says she wants to spend time with them and how she never does. They also tell me they don't want to go and am I going to make them.

 

I'm really at the point that they are old enough to make their own decisions about if they want to spend time with her or not. So as far as I'm concerned if they don't want to go........I'm not going to make them. Also, I'm done going out of my way to make excuses for her or trying to convince her to spend time with her grandkids.

 

This whole thing makes my husband and I both furious, but we realize we can't change her. Fortunately my mom lives next door and spends lots of time with the kids so at least they have one grandparent that loves them dearly.

 

So, would you force your kids to go and/or keep making excuses?

 

 

Apparently we are related!:grouphug: Your mil is obviously my mil's sister. Or cousin. Or clone. At any rate, I think PariSarah is right on the money.:iagree: That's pretty much the track we've taken. I only wish my Mom lived right next door!!