Michelle in AL Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 One of my dd's, age 15, has a bit of a porcupine like personality. She's moody like most teens and lately has the attitude that my parents don't know anything. Our conversation are verging on the type that if you were to overhear them you would think, that child treats her mom like a dog. Here's an example of this morning's conversation on the way to youth band practice: Me: How you feeling? Her:Fine, I've always been fine. Im not sicksaid in a nee, nee voice (she says as she sniffs and her left side of her face is swollen from sinuses). Me: I was just wondering, you sound like you don't feel well. Her: Well I'm fine hostile tone. Me: slow down (she's driving and approaching a slowing vehicle). Her: I m fine. I know how to drive.more hostile tone You dont have to tell me to slow down. Me: Well, I will warn you when to slow down, I'm your mom and it's my job to teach you to drive safely. Her: I"M FINE! Me: You don't need to talk to me in that tone. Everything you say comes out in a hostile tone. Her: I DO NOT, You're hostile and you annoy me! Me: How would you like it if evything I said to you was in an angry tone or if I acted like I was annoyed at everything you said or did? That was basically the end. Does this sound like a disrespectful attitude? If so what would be a logical consequence? Thanks for any advice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 Um - the logical consequence in my house would be to tell her to either a. stop the car and let me drive - and I would turn around and drive right home. or b. tell her to turn around and drive right home. If she is visibly sick (and if she is visibly swollen that would do it for me) then she shouldn't be at band practice. Also - if she cannot discuss her health nicely then I would assume that she is sick and she shouldn't be at band practice. Also - if she cannot accept your supervision on her driving (and at age 15 she is still legally under your supervision on that, right?) then she does not drive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIch elle Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lllll Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthwestMom Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 I would not agree to any more driving until she agrees to speak respectfully. Would you tolerate anyone else talking to you in that way? Why should your child be any different? Honestly, you will be doing her a favor if you enforce respectful speech. My teen cousin has spoken to his parents disrespectfully for years. Now he's at college and lo and behold, he's had a lot of trouble with teachers, teammates, and dorm mates for being rude and difficult. His parents did not prepare him to control his tone and language when under pressure or high emotion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpupg Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 Um - the logical consequence in my house would be to tell her to either a. stop the car and let me drive - and I would turn around and drive right home. or b. tell her to turn around and drive right home. If she is visibly sick (and if she is visibly swollen that would do it for me) then she shouldn't be at band practice. Also - if she cannot discuss her health nicely then I would assume that she is sick and she shouldn't be at band practice. Also - if she cannot accept your supervision on her driving (and at age 15 she is still legally under your supervision on that, right?) then she does not drive. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle in AL Posted November 7, 2009 Author Share Posted November 7, 2009 Thanks for the posts, I would let it go....but I have been for yrs and this is the tone of our conversations always. I try to spend time with her positively too, but that hasn't solved the issue. She was born kicking and screaming. She is very polite with other adults and friends, just not her family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faithr Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 My strategy is to get really stinkin' mad! I mean isn't that the logical consequence whenever somebody treats you like that? I get mad and say things like, "Who are you to treat me like that??? Have you ever heard of the Golden Rule or are you exempt somehow?????. I don't let anybody treat me like that! How could you???? I annoy you!!!!! What a laugh! You have got to be the most prickly person I've ever had to endure!!!!! I am sick to death of your smart-a**ed mouth!" Of course, that isn't really a strategy, it's just my bad temper! But it is amazing what authentic feeling can do to a relationship instead of always tiptoeing around trying to 'handle it'. So to me the logical consequence of treating somebody rudely is to get called on it right in the face! When the air clears and apologies are made, we actually feel closer. I know this advice isn't anything you'd find in a parenting book, but I found with my teens if I reacted to them like they were another adult treating me badly, they were truly contrite. That is, if I responded by showing my honestly hurt feelings they saw me with new eyes and felt bad about how they had treated me. If I treated it like a discipline issue the power struggle just escalated. Of course take care that you are being respectful to her so she has a model for how to speak to others. My oldest dd had a bad tendency to sarcasm. I have somewhat of a tendency to sarcasm but she perfected it! We had a talk about how we both needed to be more considerate in speech and I had to clean up my sarcasm act at the same time she cleaned up hers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle in AL Posted November 7, 2009 Author Share Posted November 7, 2009 Thanks Faith, your post made me smile. I was almost in tears with her this morning and she saw that I think it shocked her. Now I am stinkin mad! I tend to try to be gentle and diplomatic. DD is just like my dh, who is dear, but a bit prickly and negative too. We'e going to change many things around here. I almost did turn the car around, but she was working for the adult band and they're playing at a new church and turning around would have impacted them badly. So she's grounded for the weekend. No more computer in her rooom ever and no ipod or phone after 9:30 since that might be keeping her up and causing irritability due to lack of sleep. Teens are not fun.:blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amsunshine Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 Just a couple minor suggestions: One thing I noticed about the conversation you posted is the way your responses to your dd are more accusatory and confrontational in form, i.e., "You don't need to talk to me that way." Also, "Everything yousay comes out in a hostile tone." Maybe change your phrasing a little bit to something like, "I don't like it when you speak to me that way" or "I feel disrespected when you speak to me that way." As for using the exaggerated "Everythingyou say comes out in a hostile tone", try to just address the here and now, i.e., "Your tone sounds hostile" or "It sounds like you're annoyed", or "It sounds like something is bothering you." I highly recommend the books by Adele Faber "How to Talk So Kids(Teens) Will Listen and Listen So Kids (Teens) Will Talk" are really good and explain the conversation dynamics pretty well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sputterduck Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 I agree with Faithr. After having watched so many parents cover up their feelings while their children run over them, I decided to be honest with my son. I don't hide when I'm hurt. I don't hide when I'm annoyed by annoying things. I don't hide when something upsets me. How else is a child supposed to understand how they are affecting their parents if parents are always covering their feelings up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie4b Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 One of my dd's, age 15, has a bit of a porcupine like personality. She's moody like most teens and lately has the attitude that my parents don't know anything. Our conversation are verging on the type that if you were to overhear them you would think, that child treats her mom like a dog. Here's an example of this morning's conversation on the way to youth band practice: Me: How you feeling? Her:Fine, I've always been fine. Im not sicksaid in a nee, nee voice (she says as she sniffs and her left side of her face is swollen from sinuses). Me: I was just wondering, you sound like you don't feel well. Her: Well I'm fine hostile tone. Me: slow down (she's driving and approaching a slowing vehicle). Her: I m fine. I know how to drive.more hostile tone You dont have to tell me to slow down. Me: Well, I will warn you when to slow down, I'm your mom and it's my job to teach you to drive safely. Her: I"M FINE! Me: You don't need to talk to me in that tone. Everything you say comes out in a hostile tone. Her: I DO NOT, You're hostile and you annoy me! Me: How would you like it if evything I said to you was in an angry tone or if I acted like I was annoyed at everything you said or did? That was basically the end. Does this sound like a disrespectful attitude? If so what would be a logical consequence? Thanks for any advice! Arguing with me when I'm the supervising driver= loss of driving priveleges for a significant amount of time. Though I'm sure I've done it on occasion, it's wiser not to press an argument while a teen is driving--even a "how are you you seem sick" argument. Arguments are distracting. There are some times when teens are trying to get some distance from parents. This argument had some of that flavor. Not that that is an excuse to talk disrespectfully, but it is something for you as mom to reflect on. It may seem irrational, because you'd ask the same question of a friend exhibiting her symptoms, but if she takes inquiries into her health as an intrusion or as a sign that she somehow isn't capable of figuring out when she's sick (I know that sounds irrational, but that's how some teens process things), then I'd think about ways to affirm her independance. If she has a constant hostile mood, talk about that outside the situation. Take her out to a meal or something and genuinely inquire about it. Then, set up consequences together. Consequences for disrespect can be that you don't take her to the next activity she's planned on, or she shows respect by doing an extra chore for you. (I prefer the second one, but if they're in a surly mood, the first one works best.) If dh models that kind of way of talking to you, that is something else you'll need to work on. And I agree with amsunshine's post as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cedarmom Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 I have two totally differant responses. First, in the car, I am always allowed to make comments and driving is a privilige, not a right. Said privilige can be gone. If my son backtalks other times, I can stop conversation. If I was going to take him somewhere (or he was going somewhere) and he can not speak politely, then he does not get to go. I usually remind my son of this and ask him to try again politely. Second response, sometimes when my son gets this way its because I am micromanaging him. When we get into this cycle, I try and step back and see if maybe I am stepping in too much (I can helicopter) and snarkiness is his way of dealing with it. Not that that gives him an excuse to be rude to me, he can communicate that he feels over managed in a nice way, just to try and see if I am adding to the problem. This may not be your case, so feel free to disregard this advise if it doesn't apply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 Situation #1, "I'm Fine" conversation: I'd ask *once* and let it go. I am an introvert and my reaction to reading that and channeling my former teen self, I felt closed in on needlessly. She's been with you for 15 years, she knows to and when to involve you medically. Situation #2, Driving: The moment my child talked back to me with regard to driving feedback it would be the immediate end to their driving privileges for a period of time. Period. No words, no argument. As you posted, her response is chronic. I am respectfully wondering, though, if you are pressing to hard to have conversations with her that she doesn't want to have and doesn't NEED to have? Maybe? ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harriet Vane Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 Um - the logical consequence in my house would be to tell her to either a. stop the car and let me drive - and I would turn around and drive right home. or b. tell her to turn around and drive right home. If she is visibly sick (and if she is visibly swollen that would do it for me) then she shouldn't be at band practice. Also - if she cannot discuss her health nicely then I would assume that she is sick and she shouldn't be at band practice. Also - if she cannot accept your supervision on her driving (and at age 15 she is still legally under your supervision on that, right?) then she does not drive. :iagree: To this I will add to have her "do it over"--meaning find a way to say it nicely. My own dd is only 12yo, but this is very effective for her and for ds and for the cousins I care for on weekends. Also I have used this in youth group situations and with a very immature young adult I am discipling. Make them do it over (say it again) each. and. every. time. This forces them to think through the right way to say it. Also being told to say it again each time will drive them so up the wall they will actually think ahead and speak more nicely to prevent you from telling them to say it again. Like this: "The tone of voice you are using is very negative. Please say it again nicely." "Those words sound mean. Please say it again nicely." Lather, rinse, repeat. HTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LND1218 Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 If returning home is not an option, she would have been pulling over the sitting in the back the rest of the way there. No way I would have allowed her to continue to drive! Also, if the consequences aren't enough she won't change. You are going to have to inconvience her, yourself and possibly others to get through to her. Behavior changing consequences have to make an impact or they don't work. And things like grounding tend to feed anger and resentment where as missing the practice is over but wow she really let them down that hurts. But it's not ongoing for her to keep building feelings of bitterness/anger or whatever it is. I think are times when grounding is okay and loss of priviledges work, but losing the computer isn't a logical consequence for talking that way while driving to practice. Loss of practice and or driving is more logical because it's connected. I do think lack of sleep can play a big role - so cutting those things off at night is a good thing to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle in AL Posted November 7, 2009 Author Share Posted November 7, 2009 Thanks for all the replies. I think I have some changing I need to do too. I may be micromanaging for various reasons (new friends, most of which are boys) and while I think I'm a pretty caring, nonconfrontational parent, speaking therapeutically definitely is not natural for me. I never can remember to use those kind of words when the situation occurs. Parenting just seems really hard sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lllll Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle in AL Posted November 7, 2009 Author Share Posted November 7, 2009 Thanks Kathy and all who have replied. Honestly I've not thought about driving and not talking! She probably has had a couple 100 hrs of driving in all sorts of stressful situations, so while I was aware of the need for complete silence at first, we've added the radio back in and talking. The sad part is, the car is about the only place I see her. She stays in her room unless it's dinnertime. She can no longer use her computer in there so hopefully this will help. I drag her out for class work we must do together and then she goes right back in. I realize I also may have been overly concerned about her health, but she's had chronic sinus infections in the past (1.5 yrs) and bad asthma. Her dad made her stay home from church recently when she had the flu and now I'm afraid she won't tell us when she's sick so she won't be restricted from going anywhere. Thanks all for reading all this, it seems petty and small when you look at Chris in VA situation (hugs to Chris). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary in VA Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Warning, original post is over 2 years old! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trish Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Well, when I'm dealing with backtalk or rude statements/tones, I do it in a couple ways: first, I ALWAYS address it. So if they're in a hurry, they will not get to (whatever it is) until we discuss the problem. Second, I will say something like "that really came out in an unfriendly tone, would you like to try again?" That's just a hint/reminder, and it often works. When it doesn't, I send the offender to his room to think about the effect of his words/tones on others, and to come out when he can apologize and rephrase. (we don't have any TVs or videogames in bedrooms, so their only recourse is reading books until they're ready to rephrase and apologize) Basically, I make it annoying for them to have to deal with this. And y'know, sometimes they're just frustrated with something else, and I try to recognize that and not come down too hard if I know it isn't me, or a bad attitude in general, but maybe something else specific that has them upset. I don't want to pile on, YKWIM? But at the same time I do remind them that it isn't okay to take it out on others. However your situation sounds more like a general bad attitude/habit that has settled in. I would take steps to break that. The key (for me) is to respond EVERY TIME. And I try very hard not to escalate. Firm but loving. Keep telling yourself that! Firm but loving. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trish Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Warning, original post is over 2 years old! Thanks. Well, with backtalk rude teens being a perennial issue hopefully someone will benefit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonshineLearner Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Warning, original post is over 2 years old! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingerbread Mama Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 (edited) / Edited April 23, 2012 by Gingerbread Mama Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest felders Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Well, when I'm dealing with backtalk or rude statements/tones, I do it in a couple ways: first, I ALWAYS address it. So if they're in a hurry, they will not get to (whatever it is) until we discuss the problem. Second, I will say something like "that really came out in an unfriendly tone, would you like to try again?" That's just a hint/reminder, and it often works. When it doesn't, I send the offender to his room to think about the effect of his words/tones on others, and to come out when he can apologize and rephrase. (we don't have any TVs or videogames in bedrooms, so their only recourse is reading books until they're ready to rephrase and apologize) Basically, I make it annoying for them to have to deal with this. And y'know, sometimes they're just frustrated with something else, and I try to recognize that and not come down too hard if I know it isn't me, or a bad attitude in general, but maybe something else specific that has them upset. I don't want to pile on, YKWIM? But at the same time I do remind them that it isn't okay to take it out on others. However your situation sounds more like a general bad attitude/habit that has settled in. I would take steps to break that. The key (for me) is to respond EVERY TIME. And I try very hard not to escalate. Firm but loving. Keep telling yourself that! Firm but loving. Good luck! Good point. It does make sense to immediately address the disrespectful behavior once your teen displays it. Showing them how people should be respected will also help teach our teens that respect cannot be earned once you do not show respect to other people as well. Teenagers are difficult beings, to be honest but once we get to know and understand what makes them act that way, then dealing with the disrespectful behavior in our teens will become less difficult to handle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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