Grammar Island

[Marsha]

What age/grade do you use this for?

 

Is it teacher intensive?

 

What items do you need?

 

Could it be used after ILL?

[Spy Car]

:lurk5:

[cylau]

Grammar Island is for gifted 3rd graders or regular 4th graders. You read through the book with him/her few pages at a time and discuss. There is not much preparation work, but you should be there when you kid read it through. That is what I do.

 

I only bought teacher's edition.

 

I don't know much about ILL. Sorry, I can't help you.

[jeri]

My son is in 4th and is 9. Somehow I had never gotten to grammar with him, and knew I needed to do so pretty quickly!

 

The GI series is five books: a "beginning" (overview) book of grammar called GI, an "advanced" (more detail) book called Sentence Island, a book about poetry, a book about word roots, a practice book (the only workbook). There is also an answer book to this workbook. You only need the teacher set and if I remember correctly, it was abouut $120. It is non-consummable so you could resell it except for the practice book (which your buyer could get from RFWP). Expensive, but if you have more than one kid, if you can resell it, it's not a bad investment.

 

GI uses a story theme to teach the four levels of analysis: parts of speech, parts of a sentence, phrases and clauses. I have done extensive grammar with my 12 yo (R&S, CW) so I can see that this series is very sound grammatically. It teaches how to organize your analysis differently than the other two, but in a clear and very useful way.

 

The style is reading and thinking, not worksheets and drill, but for a bright, mature learner, it works. (Side note: It's funny because I look back to all the drill work I did with my older and see how easily this is working with my younger! Not sure if it's because of the program itself or the age/maturity of the studnet.)

 

Yyes, it's teacher intensive because it requires the teacher to read with the child and discuss. It's not the kind of thing I would hand to my 9 yo to read by himself. But it's not teacher intensive in the way that, say, Rightstart is. I mean, with GI you are reading and talking, sort of in a CM way. At the most we take 15-20 min a day, and sometimes we skip days.

 

Now in fairness, I'm not sure how much writing I will use with the program. A lot of the writing exercises are fairly creative (i.e. "Write a dialogue in which you have two characters. One can only speak in subjects and one can only speak in predicates.") We might do this kind of thing verbally, but because we are also using CW Aesop, I am primarily applying the info he is learning to his writing projects.

 

Hope this helps a bit. It's early on a Sun morning and now my kids are up and asking for breakfast! Post more questions if you have them.

 

Jeri

[Vida Winter]

Grammar Island describes the parts of speech. Get the TM (not the student manual - you won't need it). Go through it quickly and then start on Practice Island where you apply the concepts taught in Grammar Island. With Practice Island you should get both the TM and student manual.

 

Last year I used Grammar Island with a 3rd grader and we made a very simple lapbook of the parts of speech (file folder and scrapbook paper).

 

While Grammar Island may seem a bit young for older students, Practice Island is not. While you can use the Island level with children as young as third grade I would not hesitate to use it with older students as well, depending on their level of grammar knowledge (many older students require remediation with grammar - for instance if they were taken out of public school).

[Rosie_0801]

Would this be useful for an adult learner? I know almost no grammar, and half what I learned was the "lies to small children" version, as I am now discovering.

 

Rosie

[Rosie_0801]

Bumping because I really do want to know the answer to my question!

 

Rosie

[Crimson Wife]

Hi Rosie,

I have to say that I personally was underwhelmed by the MCT elementary grammar series when I took a look at a friend's copy. For a series aimed at gifted kids, it just didn't seem like it had a lot of content.

 

For an adult who wants to learn grammar, I highly recommend Teaching and Learning Grammar by Dr. Arthur Whimbey.

[EKS]

I just recently finished Grammar Island with my 7yo and we are now doing Practice Island and Sentence Island. After taking about 4 weeks to go through Grammar Island, he is now able to identify all the parts of speech, subject, simple predicate, subject complement, direct object, any prepositional phrases, and clauses in the sentences he analyzes in Practice Island.

 

For those who tell you it doesn't have much content, they're right--but what content it has is extremely powerful.

 

Used correctly, it is teacher intensive.

[Rosie_0801]

For an adult who wants to learn grammar, I highly recommend Teaching and Learning Grammar by Dr. Arthur Whimbey.

 

Why? (I can't find any reviews. Amazon has let me down!) I'm not even sure what I'm looking for, really. I'm assuming I'll recognise it when I see it, though. I know I'm hijacking here, but when I started a thread a while ago, I was given some useful websites. They were a good start, but I feel I need a workbook and answer key. Memorising definitions alone isn't working for me.

 

Rosie

[Shawna in Texas]

Would this be useful for an adult learner? I know almost no grammar, and half what I learned was the "lies to small children" version, as I am now discovering.

 

Rosie

 

I don't have Grammar Island, but I learned quite a bit from Grammar Town. Stuff I don't remember learning or that I had forgotten.

[radiobrain]

Hi Rosie,

I have to say that I personally was underwhelmed by the MCT elementary grammar series when I took a look at a friend's copy. For a series aimed at gifted kids, it just didn't seem like it had a lot of content.

 

.

 

Um, I have to disagree strongly with this comment. If you were to just look at someone's copy, I can see where you might come to this conclusion... but there is a big difference between looking at something and experiencing how it works.

 

As far as the "gifted" part... gifted kids generally think in a different way than an average kid, therefore it is not necessary to have as much info. MCT strips down all L.A. to it's most elegant and simple components and lets you and your kids examine it's fundemental qualities and the why, how, and what of it all. Gifted kids (not all, but this is part of what makes a kid gifted) tend to innately understand certain things and really dislike having things explained that they already grasp. MCT writes to the mind that "gets" a lot of it, but is still written in a whimsical way that would be enjoyable to a child, without being childish or condescending. Just enjoyable.

 

So, it is about depth. It is hard to gauge it's depth w/o actually reading through it with your children. Grammar Island level is the most simple and whimsical of them all, but I think if you had looked at anything in the town level, especially Caesar's English, your attitude would change. But then again, it is a program that resonates with me and my family, it might not with you.

 

korin

[EKS]

Um, I have to disagree strongly with this comment. If you were to just look at someone's copy, I can see where you might come to this conclusion... but there is a big difference between looking at something and experiencing how it works.

 

As far as the "gifted" part... gifted kids generally think in a different way than an average kid, therefore it is not necessary to have as much info. MCT strips down all L.A. to it's most elegant and simple components and lets you and your kids examine it's fundemental qualities and the why, how, and what of it all. Gifted kids (not all, but this is part of what makes a kid gifted) tend to innately understand certain things and really dislike having things explained that they already grasp. MCT writes to the mind that "gets" a lot of it, but is still written in a whimsical way that would be enjoyable to a child, without being childish or condescending. Just enjoyable.

 

So, it is about depth. It is hard to gauge it's depth w/o actually reading through it with your children. Grammar Island level is the most simple and whimsical of them all, but I think if you had looked at anything in the town level, especially Caesar's English, your attitude would change. But then again, it is a program that resonates with me and my family, it might not with you.

 

korin

 

:iagree:

 

Here's an example of an exercise that really impressed me from The Magic Lens 1 (for 6th graders). It's called "Mystery Sentence".

 

"This sentence from a nursery rhyme begins with four alliterated one-syllable interjections in a row, followed by a first person singular subject pronoun, a present tense transitive action verb, a definite article, a singular common noun, a preposition that does not show a relationship of time or of space, an indefinite article, and a three-syllable proper noun."

 

I had a good time trying to figure this out. I have never seen anything like this in any other grammar program.

 

I think people frequently equate "rigorous" with "repetitive" when, in fact, a few really thoughtful exercises can be worth 20 mundane ones, and are actually preferable for gifted kids because these kids will tend to turn their brains off doing the 20 mundane ones and start to make silly mistakes even if they really understand the material.

[Spy Car]

Um, I have to disagree strongly with this comment. If you were to just look at someone's copy, I can see where you might come to this conclusion... but there is a big difference between looking at something and experiencing how it works.

 

As far as the "gifted" part... gifted kids generally think in a different way than an average kid, therefore it is not necessary to have as much info. MCT strips down all L.A. to it's most elegant and simple components and lets you and your kids examine it's fundemental qualities and the why, how, and what of it all. Gifted kids (not all, but this is part of what makes a kid gifted) tend to innately understand certain things and really dislike having things explained that they already grasp. MCT writes to the mind that "gets" a lot of it, but is still written in a whimsical way that would be enjoyable to a child, without being childish or condescending. Just enjoyable.

 

So, it is about depth. It is hard to gauge it's depth w/o actually reading through it with your children. Grammar Island level is the most simple and whimsical of them all, but I think if you had looked at anything in the town level, especially Caesar's English, your attitude would change. But then again, it is a program that resonates with me and my family, it might not with you.

 

korin

 

Thank you for this explanation. It re-enforces my feeling MCT will be the right program for us :001_smile:

 

Bill

[Spy Car]

"This sentence from a nursery rhyme begins with four alliterated one-syllable interjections in a row, followed by a first person singular subject pronoun, a present tense transitive action verb, a definite article, a singular common noun, a preposition that does not show a relationship of time or of space, an indefinite article, and a three-syllable proper noun."

 

 

Thank goodness we happened to have read that very story last night (honestly!), or this would be bothering me all day ;)

 

Bill

[fractalgal]

What age/grade do you use this for?

 

Is it teacher intensive?

 

What items do you need?

 

Could it be used after ILL?

 

I used grammar island with my daughter in 3rd grade.

We both appreciated the way it showed the bigger picture of what was going on rather than focusing on the parts as many grammar programs do.

 

My favorite part is the four-level analysis. First the student identifies the parts of speech. Below that they identify the parts of the sentence, then below that the phrases. At the very bottom they identify the clauses. It really gives the student a feel for the whole picture, and encourages them to look for these patterns in all the sentences they analyze.

 

I used it as a supplement on Fridays when we wanted a break from our regular grammar program.

 

Good luck :)

[G5052]

Bumping because I really do want to know the answer to my question!

 

Rosie

 

It's a solid overview and has a key for the exercises. I've read and re-read it I don't how many times to brush up on various things.

[Crimson Wife]

 

Here's an example of an exercise that really impressed me from The Magic Lens 1 (for 6th graders). It's called "Mystery Sentence".

 

"This sentence from a nursery rhyme begins with four alliterated one-syllable interjections in a row, followed by a first person singular subject pronoun, a present tense transitive action verb, a definite article, a singular common noun, a preposition that does not show a relationship of time or of space, an indefinite article, and a three-syllable proper noun."

 

I had a good time trying to figure this out. I have never seen anything like this in any other grammar program.

 

I actually had originally asked my friend who uses MCT grammar about Magic Lens. What she told me is that MCT uses a non-standard sentence analysis technique so that the student has to go through the whole elementary series first or else he/she won't understand what he/she is supposed to do.

 

I'm not going to spend a lot of money and make my student repeat material she already knows simply to learn an analysis technique that won't translate to any other series.

[EKS]

I actually had originally asked my friend who uses MCT grammar about Magic Lens. What she told me is that MCT uses a non-standard sentence analysis technique so that the student has to go through the whole elementary series first or else he/she won't understand what he/she is supposed to do.

 

I'm not going to spend a lot of money and make my student repeat material she already knows simply to learn an analysis technique that won't translate to any other series.

 

I have my 13yo in the Voyage level. This is after doing two years of Saxon grammar (through 8th grade level). He did well on the assessments and seemed to be getting it. It became very apparent to me that he didn't have any sort of "big picture" understanding. MCT gives this. After using several different grammar programs, MCT truly impresses me.

 

As for not translating to any other series--The analysis technique is very straightforward. I can't see how it wouldn't translate.

 

Here is the technique:

 

Step 1: Student identifies the parts of speech for every word in the sentence.

 

Step 2: Student identifies the parts of the sentence (subject, predicate, direct object, etc)

 

Step 3: Student identifies phrases

 

Step 4: Student identifies clauses

 

You certainly don't have to use it. But I have to say that I appreciate the program far more now that I am actually using it than when I had merely reviewed it.

[Ali in OR]

Can you start with Grammar Town instead of Grammar Island? If I had heard of this when my dd was younger, maybe we would have tried Grammar Island. But I don't really want to spend a whole lot of money for a level where most of it would be review. She does have a strong grammar background from R&S, Writing Tales, and Latin. But the analysis technique sounds like it would reinforce the Latin well and I'm interested in the poetry and vocab portions. Could we just start at the Town level?

[EKS]

Can you start with Grammar Town instead of Grammar Island? If I had heard of this when my dd was younger, maybe we would have tried Grammar Island. But I don't really want to spend a whole lot of money for a level where most of it would be review. She does have a strong grammar background from R&S, Writing Tales, and Latin. But the analysis technique sounds like it would reinforce the Latin well and I'm interested in the poetry and vocab portions. Could we just start at the Town level?

 

Yes.

[Shawna in Texas]

Can you start with Grammar Town instead of Grammar Island? If I had heard of this when my dd was younger, maybe we would have tried Grammar Island. But I don't really want to spend a whole lot of money for a level where most of it would be review. She does have a strong grammar background from R&S, Writing Tales, and Latin. But the analysis technique sounds like it would reinforce the Latin well and I'm interested in the poetry and vocab portions. Could we just start at the Town level?

 

This is what we did. We were able to go through the grammar portion more quickly, but the vocab and poetics keep us plenty busy. The writing portion started out fairy easy with creative exercises, and it wasn't priority because we were doing CW at the time. We've since dropped CW and I'm finding Paragraph Town to be more than enough. In fact, if I would have just read through it like the others, I wouldn't have agonized for so long about dropping CW. Everything seems inadequate when you've got Homer on your lap.

[Vida Winter]

Can you start with Grammar Town instead of Grammar Island? If I had heard of this when my dd was younger, maybe we would have tried Grammar Island. But I don't really want to spend a whole lot of money for a level where most of it would be review. She does have a strong grammar background from R&S, Writing Tales, and Latin. But the analysis technique sounds like it would reinforce the Latin well and I'm interested in the poetry and vocab portions. Could we just start at the Town level?

 

Grammar Town has everything that Grammar Island has in it. Maybe a few more examples of nouns and adjectives in the Island level but I believe Town still covers it. I still would do Practice Island before Practice Town though. I learned a lot personally from Practice Island and it is a good way to transition to the town level. Do have either Grammar Island or Grammar Town before attempting either of the practice books, though - good idea to have a reference that speaks in MCT's own words.

 

And Rosie, I'm not sure that you need to go down to the Island level to start on self-ed but if you do you can save it for your younger children and use it with them later.

[Madison]

:iagree:

[Kuovonne]

The analysis technique is very straightforward. I can't see how it wouldn't translate.

 

Here is the technique:

 

Step 1: Student identifies the parts of speech for every word in the sentence.

Step 2: Student identifies the parts of the sentence (subject, predicate, direct object, etc)

Step 3: Student identifies phrases

Step 4: Student identifies clauses

 

I'm toying with the idea of MCT for next year, but what does MCT give beyond the four level analysis?

 

Couldn't I just teach my daughter how to do the four level analysis on my own and get basically the same effect? (I feel very comfortable with my ability to pick up grammar fast enough to stay well ahead of DD.)

 

What about just getting the Practice Island teacher's manual and going through it, without the other books?

[radiobrain]

I'm toying with the idea of MCT for next year, but what does MCT give beyond the four level analysis?

 

Couldn't I just teach my daughter how to do the four level analysis on my own and get basically the same effect? (I feel very comfortable with my ability to pick up grammar fast enough to stay well ahead of DD.)

 

What about just getting the Practice Island teacher's manual and going through it, without the other books?

 

I guess you could do that to save $$, but you would get NOTHING from the program by doing it that way. That is the end result of his method of presenting grammar.

 

What he gives "beyond 4 level analysis" is a fundemental understanding of the deepest reasoning about grammar. It sounds silly, but it is true. He presents the material in a way that grasps the big picture, while at the same time focusing on each tiny individual component. They are integrated from the beginning. I think that if you went through Town series (grammar & paragraph), you could do all 3 practice books to solidify the info... but then you miss the other stuff and the aspects that make it so different. But that would be the bare minimum I think you could do.

 

my opinion, of course...