H1N1 pediatric deaths

[Lovedtodeath]

My parents are good friends with a pharmacist who is retired now due to leukemia... he is not getting the vax, is not recommending it for anyone and is telling my mom to take 7,000 IU of vit D. (that is what he is on) and told me to give my DD 2,000 IU of vit D. per day.

[EthiopianFood]

Will the vaccine immunize against mutated forms? Would immunity from getting the disease? If there is a difference, why?

[mchel210]

Yep, this is what we were told too. My son is a Leuekmia survivor. He is immunocompromised because of 3 years of chemotherapy. Because he is high risk not only can he NOT get the mist but we have been told that our whole family can NOT get it either because we could shed the virus and spread it to him. I think that the consenses is if someone is high risk they cannot receive the mist and if one member of the family is high risk no one in the family can get it either. However, we are all told that we MUST get the shot/killed version of the vaccine.

 

We are lucky because our area has received the "killed" vaccine so we have already gotten the H1N1 as well as our seasonal flu shots.

 

 

 

Very interesting. I never heard that.

 

I took my dd and she tested positive for the flu Friday. She has been terribly sick. Worst I have seen. High fever for almost 4 days, now she has a terrible cough. I asked the dr. PRIOR to the positive test if I should give them the flu shot and she told me no. I was very surprised. She told me if I dont give the regular flu shot not to bother giving the swine flu shot/mist.

 

I really never expected that from her. She told me AFTER the test that I shouldnt give the shot because we are all exposed and if we are going to get it we will get it now. She said my little one definitely does not need the shot/mist now that she has had the flu. This is my child that ends up in the hospital with EVERY illness. I imagine that is why she is coughing so bad with this flu. She is borderline asthma and has had croup so many times. I believe my husband and I had a light version back in August. He had fever less then 24 hours and symptoms for a week. I had no fever but all the symptoms.

 

I am very torn on the issue...but I have decided not to do the flu mist/shots.

 

I think it is interesting that they are stating it is contagious to family members that do not take the mist at the same time. Why would they offer to vaccinate all the kids in PS if the parents are not getting vaccinated. (UNLESS this only applies to people with compromised immune systems?)

 

Does this mean there should be a huge outbreak in the flu now in parents? Seeing that parents wont get the mist but most PS kids will be getting it? That is very interesting and something I have NOT heard at all. I think it brings up a great point for discussion among the professionals.

Edited October 18, 2009 by mchel210

[Tree House Academy]

Very interesting. I never heard that.

 

I took my dd and she tested positive for the flu Friday. She has been terribly sick. Worst I have seen. High fever for almost 4 days, now she has a terrible cough. I asked the dr. PRIOR to the positive test if I should give them the flu shot and she told me no. I was very surprised. She told me if I dont give the regular flu shot not to bother giving the swine flu shot/mist.

 

I really never expected that from her. She told me AFTER the test that I shouldnt give the shot because we are all exposed and if we are going to get it we will get it now. She said my little one definitely does not need the shot/mist now that she has had the flu. This is my child that ends up in the hospital with EVERY illness. I imagine that is why she is coughing so bad with this flu. She is borderline asthma and has had croup so many times. I believe my husband and I had a light version back in August. He had fever less then 24 hours and symptoms for a week. I had no fever but all the symptoms.

 

I am very torn on the issue...but I have decided not to do the flu mist/shots.

 

I think it is interesting that they are stating it is contagious to family members that do not take the mist at the same time. Why would they offer to vaccinate all the kids in PS if the parents are not getting vaccinated. (UNLESS this only applies to people with compromised immune systems?)

 

Does this mean there should be a huge outbreak in the flu now in parents? Seeing that parents wont get the mist but most PS kids will be getting it? That is very interesting and something I have NOT heard at all. I think it brings up a great point for discussion among the professionals.

 

 

Your post brings up some very interesting points. My fear with the mist was that they would give it to school kids who were around OTHER school kids that couldn't take the mist due to underlying health issues. That scares me because you would think with massive numbers of kids that share a classroom just after having the mist administered, the germ is bound to spread. It makes sense, right?

[Perry]

There is a lot of misunderstanding about the mist. It contains live virus, but is attenuated (or weakened) and it does not cause flu. In order to cause flu, it would have to revert back to the original strain, and this hasn't been shown to happen. But you can be infected with the *vaccine* virus (which is not the same as the influenza virus that causes the influenza illness). In most people, it causes no symptoms or very mild flu-like symptoms (runny nose, headaches, etc.) But remember, it's not actually influenza. The concern is that in severely immunocompromised patients, even the vaccine virus infection could be severe for them.

 

The vaccine virus is only rarely transmitted from the vaccinated patient to others. From CDC

Can people receiving the nasal-spray flu vaccine LAIV (FluMist®) pass the vaccine viruses to others?

 

In clinical studies, transmission of vaccine viruses to close contacts has occurred only rarely. The current estimated risk of getting infected with vaccine virus after close contact with a person vaccinated with the nasal-spray flu vaccine is low (0.6%-2.4%). Because the viruses are weakened, infection is unlikely to result in influenza illness symptoms since the vaccine viruses have not been shown to mutate into typical or naturally occurring influenza viruses.

 

 

Can contacts of people with weakened immune systems get the nasal-spray flu vaccine LAIV (FluMist®)?

 

People who are in contact with others with severely weakened immune systems when they are being cared for in a protective environment (for example, people with hematopoietic stem cell transplants), should not get LAIV (FluMist®). People who have contact with others with lesser degrees of immunosuppression (for example, people with diabetes, people with asthma taking corticosteroids, or people infected with HIV) can get LAIV (FluMist®).

 

Many doctors don't think it's worth the risk to vaccinate family members of immunocompromised patients with the flumist, and they aren't willing to take the chance that family members can pass it on to others. That's certainly their prerogative. You're going to hear different information from everyone you listen to. But it is inaccurate for them to say that it causes influenza, or that it *will* be passed to others. Edited October 18, 2009 by Perry

[mommyrooch]

I think it is interesting that they are stating it is contagious to family members that do not take the mist at the same time. Why would they offer to vaccinate all the kids in PS if the parents are not getting vaccinated. (UNLESS this only applies to people with compromised immune systems?)

 

Does this mean there should be a huge outbreak in the flu now in parents? Seeing that parents wont get the mist but most PS kids will be getting it? That is very interesting and something I have NOT heard at all. I think it brings up a great point for discussion among the professionals.

 

The above bolded part is the key. For normal populations receiving the mist is fine. It is those individuals that are immunocompromised who cannot receive it and also cannot have a family member receive it.

 

It all boils down to the viral load. For example, if someone who was sick with H1N1 coughed in your face you would be exposed to a large viral load. If they coughed clear across the room the viral load would be small. The larger the viral load the more likely it was transmitted and at a much higher level.

 

The same applies to the mist vaccine. It is a live virus so it can be transmitted but the viral load is VERY small so the odds of transmitting it thoughout the general population is very small. Also, even if a small amount of virus is shed, since the viral load is so small, as long as someone has a normal healthy immune system they would most likely kick it before it even took hold. So, to answer your question, the odds of healthy parents without underlying medical conditions contracting it from their vaccinated kids is very small.

 

Such is not the case for immunocompormised individuals. They have virtually no immune system for fighting infections so even the smallest viral loads are dangerous to them. If they are exposed to even a small amount of live virus their immune systems cannot kick in and protect them. Therefore they are much more likely to catch the disease than a normal healthy person would be. Does this make sense?

 

My son is immunocompromised so that is why we were told the family could not get the mist. However, the mist is most likely fine for the general population.

 

HTH

[mommyrooch]

Your post brings up some very interesting points. My fear with the mist was that they would give it to school kids who were around OTHER school kids that couldn't take the mist due to underlying health issues. That scares me because you would think with massive numbers of kids that share a classroom just after having the mist administered, the germ is bound to spread. It makes sense, right?

 

It makes 100% absolute sense. This very thing is why we started homeschooling our son in the first place.

 

Since he is immunocompromised his risk of catching things is much higher than the general population. If he were in a public school right now where all of the kids received the mist vaccine I would be freaking out.

 

The mist is fine for the general population but it puts high risk people at increased risk of contracting it. If I were a parent of a high risk kid I would pull them out of the school so fast it would make their heads spin.

[Perry]

 

My son is immunocompromised so that is why we were told the family could not get the mist. However, the mist is most likely fine for the general population.

 

HTH

 

There is likely a risk, but I believe it's being blown way out of proportion.

 

Medimmune

 

 

FluMist Safe for Immunocompromised Children

Drug Discovery & Development - May 11, 2009

 

Data suggest that FluMist (Influenza Vaccine Live, Intranasal) has an acceptable safety profile among mild to moderately immunocompromised children with cancer. The immune systems of children with cancer can be weakened due to cancer treatments, making them vulnerable to influenza or other infections. The small multi-center, randomized, double-blind pilot study compared FluMist to placebo in 20 children, five to 17 years of age. The results, along with data from 10 other MedImmunesponsored, influenza-related studies, were presented at the 2009 Pediatric Academic Societies (PAS) annual meeting in Baltimore, MD. “In our pilot study, immunocompromised children with cancer who received FluMist had no related serious adverse events,†explained Pat Flynn M.D., director, clinical research, infectious diseases, St. Jude Children's Research Hospital. “We believe these data are promising and add to the extensive body of evidence supporting the overall safety of FluMist in the population for whom it is approved. A larger study will help us confirm the safe use of FluMist in immunocomprised patients. The value of this type of research is even more apparent today as we all consider how best to protect all of our patients against the threat of emerging, new influenza viruses.â€

Date: May 5, 2009

Source: MedImmune

 

 

 

Obviously, everyone should take the advice of their doctor. But I just want to reassure people that the chance of their child having some terrible reaction because a classmate or friend was vaccinated with flumist is very, very unlikely.

[mommyrooch]

There is a lot of misunderstanding about the mist. It contains live virus, but is attenuated (or weakened) and it does not cause flu. In order to cause flu, it would have to revert back to the original strain, and this hasn't been shown to happen. But you can be infected with the *vaccine* virus (which is not the same as the influenza virus that causes the influenza illness). In most people, it causes no symptoms or very mild flu-like symptoms (runny nose, headaches, etc.) But remember, it's not actually influenza. The concern is that in severely immunocompromised patients, even the vaccine virus infection could be severe for them.

 

Yep, this part is the key.

 

The vaccine virus is only rarely transmitted from the vaccinated patient to others. From CDC

Many doctors don't think it's worth the risk to vaccinate immunocompromised patients with the flumist, and they aren't willing to take the chance that family members can pass it on to others. That's certainly their prerogative. You're going to hear different information from everyone you listen to. But it is inaccurate for them to say that it causes influenza, or that it *will* be passed to others.

 

I don't think that anyone has said that it *will* be passed on to others. I think those of us that have commented on this have said that it *can* be passed on to others.

 

Attenuated (or weakened) virus means absolutely nothing to someone with a severly compromised immune system. It is still active live virus and poses an increased risk of contamination to those individuals. The VAST majority of the medical community, as well as the CDC, strongly recommends that these individuals not receive the mist and that they not be exposed to someone who has received the mist for approx. 3 days following the vaccination.

 

It is not only these professionals "perrogative". It is also smart medicine because the virus *can* be passed on to persons with compromised immune systems as a result of the vaccine and these individuals have extreme difficulty fighting off even the common cold. Let alone a flu.

[mommyrooch]

There is likely a risk, but I believe it's being blown way out of proportion.

 

Medimmune

 

Then virtually every Oncologists in the country is blowing this way out of proportion.

 

Have you seen what even the common cold can do to a person with a severly compromised immune system?

 

Statistically, more Leukemia patients die from secondary infections as a result of weakend immune systems than they do from the Leukemia itself.

 

Thus is the reason the Oncology community highly recommends these patients not receive the mist or be exposed to individuals who have received the mist.

 

This is not just our Oncologists recommendation. This is the universal recommendation across the board. You will always find those that disagree but on this issue they would be the minority.

 

The recommendation coming from COG (Children's Oncology Group) which is made up of over 80% of the Pediatric Oncologists in this country is that immunocompromised individuals not receive the mist vaccine and that they not be exposed to it either. This is also the recommendation of St. Jude. Although their initial study is promising there is still not enough evidence so they follow the same recommendation.

 

Certainly all of the Pediatric Oncology groups in this country aren't blowing this way out of proportion. :glare:

[Perry]

Then virtually every Oncologists in the country is blowing this way out of proportion.

 

Certainly all of the Pediatric Oncology groups in this country aren't blowing this way out of proportion. :glare:

 

First, I made a correction in my above post. I meant to say this:

Many doctors don't think it's worth the risk to vaccinate family members of immunocompromised patients with the flumist, and they aren't willing to take the chance that family members can pass it on to others.

 

Flumist is currently only recommended for healthy patients, and I didn't mean to suggest it should be given to anyone else. I inadvertently left out the bolded words. Sorry.

 

I am not talking about SEVERELY immunocompromised patients. I am responding to the concern that vaccinating people with flumist is going to put everybody else at risk for catching influenza which is just not accurate. I have heard this many, many times, and I believe I've read it on this board. Apologies if I'm wrong.

 

I'm not familiar with the COG, but that policy is certainly a reasonable one. However, I would be willing to bet that that policy is based on the theoretical possibility of risk, not actual data. And that is fine! If my kids were immunocompromised, I wouldn't want them to be around kids vaccinated with the mist either. But it doesn't change the fact that the actual risk to people coming in contact with mist-vaccinated kids is very, very low. If transmission is less than 2% in daycares, it's going to be less than that in the community. And then the risk of actually getting sick from that infection is lower still.

 

So yes, I think the risk is blown out of proportion. Not by the oncologists, but by the general public.

Edited October 18, 2009 by Perry

[Tree House Academy]

But it doesn't change the fact that the actual risk to people coming in contact with mist-vaccinated kids is very, very low. If transmission is less than 2% in households, it's going to be less than that in the community. And then the risk of actually getting sick from that infection is lower still.

 

So yes, I think the risk is blown out of proportion. Not by the oncologists, but by the general public.

 

Out of curiousity, is there any data on whether or not the risk is INCREASED by the number of kids that one might come in contact with?

 

Use this scenario: Say my child has very mild reactive airway disease (not asthma). I, as the parent, don't want to take the chance of him having a complication from the mist, so we opt to wait on the shot. Okay - then he goes to school and they are doing mist vaccines in school for any kids with signed permission forms. My son has a class of, say, 30 kids. 20 of those 30 go and have their mist vaccine around 10am. They come back to class and continue on with the day. My child then sits next to those kids who were vaccinated - 20 of them in one room most of the day. Does that (the number of children carrying the attenuated virus around) make a difference?

 

This is not my actual situation, but a hypothetical one that has crossed my mind before and made me wonder...

[Perry]

Looking back at this thread, I realize we're really talking about different groups of people.

 

I agree that severely immunocompromised patients should not receive or be exposed to the live vaccine.

 

I was thinking more about people that don't qualify for the mist because they aren't "completely" healthy or in the right age group. When I hear people express concern about being in contact with someone who received the flumist, it's usually because they are pregnant, have a child with asthma, etc. It's that group of people that I wanted to reassure that the risk is very, very low.

 

And I have heard *repeatedly* that doctors won't give flumist to family members of asthmatics. This is what I meant by the doctors having prerogative, but it isn't backed up by evidence.

Can contacts of people with weakened immune systems get the nasal-spray flu vaccine LAIV (FluMist®)?

 

People who are in contact with others with severely weakened immune systems when they are being cared for in a protective environment (for example, people with hematopoietic stem cell transplants), should not get LAIV (FluMist®). People who have contact with others with lesser degrees of immunosuppression (for example, people with diabetes, people with asthma taking corticosteroids, or people infected with HIV) can get LAIV (FluMist®).

 

[Perry]

Out of curiousity, is there any data on whether or not the risk is INCREASED by the number of kids that one might come in contact with?

 

I would assume that the more kids that are vaccinated, the higher the likelihood of vaccine virus transmission.

 

The study that determined the rate of <2% came from a daycare study, where about 100 kids were vaccinated, and about 100 were not. So that low transmission rate occurred when large numbers of kids were vaccinated.

 

Study

14.5 Transmission Study

FluMist contains live attenuated influenza viruses that must infect and replicate in cells lining the

nasopharynx of the recipient to induce immunity. Vaccine viruses capable of infection and replication

can be cultured from nasal secretions obtained from vaccine recipients. The relationship of viral

replication in a vaccine recipient and transmission of vaccine viruses to other individuals has not

been established.

Using the frozen formulation, a prospective, randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial

was performed in a daycare setting in children <3 years of age to assess the transmission of vaccine

viruses from a vaccinated individual to a non-vaccinated individual. A total of 197 children 8-36 months

of age were randomized to receive one dose of FluMist (n=98) or placebo (n=99). Virus shedding was

evaluated for 21 days by culture of nasal swab specimens. Wild-type A (H3N2) influenza virus was

documented to have circulated in the community and in the study population during the trial, whereas

Type A (H1N1) and Type B strains did not.

At least one vaccine strain was isolated from 80% of FluMist recipients; strains were recovered

from 1-21 days post vaccination (mean duration of 7.6 days ± 3.4 days). The cold-adapted (ca) and

temperature-sensitive (ts) phenotypes were preserved in 135 tested of 250 strains isolated at the local

laboratory. Ten influenza isolates (9 influenza A, 1 influenza B) were cultured from a total of seven

placebo subjects. One placebo subject had mild symptomatic Type B virus infection confirmed as a

transmitted vaccine virus by a FluMist recipient in the same playgroup. This Type B isolate retained the

ca, ts, and att phenotypes of the vaccine strain, and had the same genetic sequence when compared

to a Type B virus cultured from a vaccine recipient within the same playgroup. Four of the influenza

Type A isolates were confirmed as wild-type A/Panama (H3N2). The remaining isolates could not be

further characterized.

Assuming a single transmission event (isolation of the Type B vaccine strain), the probability of a young

child acquiring vaccine virus following close contact with a single FluMist vaccinee in this daycare

setting was 0.58% (95% CI: 0, 1.7) based on the Reed-Frost model. With documented transmission

of one Type B in one placebo subject and possible transmission of Type A viruses in four placebo

subjects, the probability of acquiring a transmitted vaccine virus was estimated to be 2.4% (95%

CI: 0.13, 4.6), using the Reed-Frost model.

The duration of FluMist vaccine virus replication and shedding have not been established.

 

Also, these were kids under 3, who are obviously challenged when it comes to personal hygiene. I'd expect lower rates in older kids and adults, but I don't think it's been studied.

[mommyrooch]

First, I made a correction in my above post. I meant to say this:

Flumist is currently only recommended for healthy patients, and I didn't mean to suggest it should be given to anyone else. I inadvertently left out the bolded words. Sorry.

 

I am not talking about SEVERELY immunocompromised patients. I am responding to the concern that vaccinating people with flumist is going to put everybody else at risk for catching influenza which is just not accurate. I have heard this many, many times, and I believe I've read it on this board. Apologies if I'm wrong.

 

I'm not familiar with the COG, but that policy is certainly a reasonable one. However, I would be willing to bet that that policy is based on the theoretical possibility of risk, not actual data. And that is fine! If my kids were immunocompromised, I wouldn't want them to be around kids vaccinated with the mist either. But it doesn't change the fact that the actual risk to people coming in contact with mist-vaccinated kids is very, very low. If transmission is less than 2% in daycares, it's going to be less than that in the community. And then the risk of actually getting sick from that infection is lower still.

 

So yes, I think the risk is blown out of proportion. Not by the oncologists, but by the general public.

 

I completely agree with you on this. I'm pretty sure we are saying the same thing. I think that the general public always seems to blow things way out of proportion. The media and innacuratly reported information doesn't help with that.

 

For the general public the flu mist is relatively safe. I agree that for the general public the risk of spreading the virus as a result of the vaccine is very very small.

 

I was only speaking of the specific high risk groups in relation to the mist. Keep in mind that the quoted 2% transmission number is based on healthy individuals. That 2% does not apply to high risk groups. It is in context of the general population.

 

Individuals with compromised immune systems do have an increased risk of transmission (greater than the general public) because when they have no immune system to fight infections even a very small viral load is dangerous for them. Healthy individuals can be exposed to these very low viral loads and have an appropriate immune response which will protect them from transmission. Individuals with weakened immune systems run an increased risk of not having an appropriate immune response to the exposure (even if it's a small viral load) therefore increasing their odds of catching it. Does this make sense? :tongue_smilie:That is why family members of immunocompromised individuals are usually told not to get the flu mist. They will shed a small amount of virus after the vaccination and if they live in close contact with an immunocompromised person they put that person at increased risk of catching it.

 

This applies to all live virus vaccines BTW. Not just flu vaccines. When it came time for my daughter to receive her varicella (chicken pox) vaccine she was not allowed to get it even though she is healthy with no risk factors. The reason is because it contained the live varicella virus and she had a brother who was severly immunocompromised as a result of chemotherapy. In order to protect him she could not receive it. This is standard practice regarding all live virus vaccinations among the Hematology/Oncology community.

 

Perry and I are on the same page here. ;) The flu mist is an acceptable form of vaccination among the general population. It just can't be given to high risk groups and it is recommended that it not be given to family members of high risk groups.

 

I hope this clarifies things for the people reading this thread.

[mommyrooch]

Out of curiousity, is there any data on whether or not the risk is INCREASED by the number of kids that one might come in contact with?

 

Use this scenario: Say my child has very mild reactive airway disease (not asthma). I, as the parent, don't want to take the chance of him having a complication from the mist, so we opt to wait on the shot. Okay - then he goes to school and they are doing mist vaccines in school for any kids with signed permission forms. My son has a class of, say, 30 kids. 20 of those 30 go and have their mist vaccine around 10am. They come back to class and continue on with the day. My child then sits next to those kids who were vaccinated - 20 of them in one room most of the day. Does that (the number of children carrying the attenuated virus around) make a difference?

 

This is not my actual situation, but a hypothetical one that has crossed my mind before and made me wonder...

 

Like Perry said, the more vaccinated kids you have in one room the greater the risk of transmission. It all boils down to the viral load. If only one kid was vaccinated they would shed a very minute amount of virus. However, if 30 kids were in a room shedding minute amounts of virus at the same time then the viral load has just exponentially increased by 30.

 

The 2% quote Perry gave is probably pretty accurate. Of 100 "healthy" kids in the room approx. 2 caught the flu as a result of the vaccination. If only one kid had been vaccinated then I would bet that no one would have caught it because the overall viral load would have been nothing to sneeze at. :tongue_smilie: No pun intended. ;)

 

This 2% transmission rate is an acceptable number according to the CDC among the general population. It is however not an acceptable rate among high risk groups. If all 100 of those kids made up high risk groups then I guarantee you that much greater than 2% would be affected.

 

Here is my take on it for what it's worth. If you or a loved one fits in one of the high risk groups then err on the side of caution and not have them vaccinated with the mist and don't let them be exposed to others that have received the mist. I guess I look at it this way, "why play with fire unless you want to get burned?"

 

As for the general population, I don't think I would have even thought twice about getting the mist if it weren't for my son's high risk status. I do believe it to be relatively safe among healthy individuals. I think that the risk of full blown H1N1 is much greater than the very small risks associated with the vaccine. I would have vaccinated my family with the mist had it not been for my son.

 

HTH put things into perspective.

[Tree House Academy]

So are kids actually getting the H1N1 vaccine at school? Is this everywhere, or only in select places?

 

Some places in the US are doing this. A school in florida and one in Massachusetts are the only ones I can remember. For kids over 8 or so, a signed permission slip was all that was needed to get the vaccine. For kids under 8, a parent had to be present for the child to get the vaccine.

 

I know there was one case where a child was ACCIDENTALLY vaccinated because the teachers confused him with another child with a similar name!!!! I can't remember what state that was in. I saw the article on flu trackers. I would have been LIVID!!!

[Tree House Academy]

Like Perry said, the more vaccinated kids you have in one room the greater the risk of transmission. It all boils down to the viral load. If only one kid was vaccinated they would shed a very minute amount of virus. However, if 30 kids were in a room shedding minute amounts of virus at the same time then the viral load has just exponentially increased by 30.

 

The 2% quote Perry gave is probably pretty accurate. Of 100 "healthy" kids in the room approx. 2 caught the flu as a result of the vaccination. If only one kid had been vaccinated then I would bet that no one would have caught it because the overall viral load would have been nothing to sneeze at. :tongue_smilie: No pun intended. ;)

 

This 2% transmission rate is an acceptable number according to the CDC among the general population. It is however not an acceptable rate among high risk groups. If all 100 of those kids made up high risk groups then I guarantee you that much greater than 2% would be affected.

 

Here is my take on it for what it's worth. If you or a loved one fits in one of the high risk groups then err on the side of caution and not have them vaccinated with the mist and don't let them be exposed to others that have received the mist. I guess I look at it this way, "why play with fire unless you want to get burned?"

 

As for the general population, I don't think I would have even thought twice about getting the mist if it weren't for my son's high risk status. I do believe it to be relatively safe among healthy individuals. I think that the risk of full blown H1N1 is much greater than the very small risks associated with the vaccine. I would have vaccinated my family with the mist had it not been for my son.

 

HTH put things into perspective.

 

Completely out of curiousity, do you stay home more during the flu season than at other times of the year due to your son's weakened system? We have decided that staying home more often and just having necessary and minimal exposure to the outside world until the shotis available is the best way to go. Sometimes I feel like a freak though - a total "homeschooler" stereotype. :lol:

[mommyrooch]

So are kids actually getting the H1N1 vaccine at school? Is this everywhere, or only in select places?

 

Right now it is only in certain places but it is expected to eventually be offered nationwide.

 

It has already been given out in many of the surrounding schools where I live. We live in Oklahoma and I know of several school districts that have already been vaccinated. They are being sent home with a permission slip (yes, the parent gets to decide whether or not their kid is vaccinated) and if the parent gives permission they receive it at school.

 

The only form of the vaccine that has been offered in the schools around here has been the mist.

[mommyrooch]

Completely out of curiousity, do you stay home more during the flu season than at other times of the year due to your son's weakened system? We have decided that staying home more often and just having necessary and minimal exposure to the outside world until the shotis available is the best way to go. Sometimes I feel like a freak though - a total "homeschooler" stereotype. :lol:

 

Abso-stinking-lutely! :lol: In fact, it was because of my son's diagnosis that we started homeschooling. :D When it came time (age wise) for him to go to school he was in the heart of his therapy and therefore had virtually no immune system. His ANC (absolute neutrophil count) never got above 750 all throughout his therapy. Many times it hit 0. :eek:

 

ANC is what they use to measure the strength of a persons immune system. Anything under 1000 is considered Neutropenic. (i.e severely immunocompromised)

 

So, homeschooling became the obvious choice for me.

 

My son is now 5 years off of therapy. It is not as dangerous for him as it used to be because his immune system is better than it was during treatment. Here's the catch though. 3 years of chemotherapy reprogrammed his immune system so it doesn't work as efficiently as a normal person. My son has a good up front immune response so usually common colds aren't an issue. However, if his immune system is hit hard (pneumonia, flu, chicken pox, etc.) he cannot fight it off.

 

Think of it like a bull charging out of a gate but coming to a stop just a little ways down. My son's initial immune response is good but just the slightest hit knocks his ANC into the basement and it takes weeks for it to get built back up to normal.

 

A normal persons immune system usually responds appropriately and re-generates fighter T-Cells and B-Cells as needed. My son has a normal number of fighter T-Cells and B-Cells at first but they are quickly depleted and he can't re-generate then fast enough to keep his immune system functioning adequetly. Does this make sense. It is pretty hard to explain.

 

I even toyed with the idea of getting him the mist vaccine this year since he is now off treatment. They were giving it in our local school district and I was afraid it might be our only chance to get it at all but his Oncologist quickly put a halt to that idea. She said that because of his inability to adequately fight off infections he by default is classified as immunocompromised and should never receive any live virus vaccine.

 

So, to answer your question, YES! We live kind of like hermits during the flu season. My kids have also had it implanted into their heads handwashing techniques etc. They were taught from an early age not to touch their faces, not to eat before washing, etc. It has been imprinted into them for so long now because of the incresed risk to my son that it is as natural as breathing.

 

Don't feel alone. You are not the only "freaky" homeschooler out there. ;)

[Tree House Academy]

Abso-stinking-lutely! :lol: In fact, it was because of my son's diagnosis that we started homeschooling. :D When it came time (age wise) for him to go to school he was in the heart of his therapy and therefore had virtually no immune system. His ANC (absolute neutrophil count) never got above 750 all throughout his therapy. Many times it hit 0. :eek:

 

ANC is what they use to measure the strength of a persons immune system. Anything under 1000 is considered Neutropenic. (i.e severely immunocompromised)

 

So, homeschooling became the obvious choice for me.

 

My son is now 5 years off of therapy. It is not as dangerous for him as it used to be because his immune system is better than it was during treatment. Here's the catch though. 3 years of chemotherapy reprogrammed his immune system so it doesn't work as efficiently as a normal person. My son has a good up front immune response so usually common colds aren't an issue. However, if his immune system is hit hard (pneumonia, flu, chicken pox, etc.) he cannot fight it off.

 

Think of it like a bull charging out of a gate but coming to a stop just a little ways down. My son's initial immune response is good but just the slightest hit knocks his ANC into the basement and it takes weeks for it to get built back up to normal.

 

A normal persons immune system usually responds appropriately and re-generates fighter T-Cells and B-Cells as needed. My son has a normal number of fighter T-Cells and B-Cells at first but they are quickly depleted and he can't re-generate then fast enough to keep his immune system functioning adequetly. Does this make sense. It is pretty hard to explain.

 

I even toyed with the idea of getting him the mist vaccine this year since he is now off treatment. They were giving it in our local school district and I was afraid it might be our only chance to get it at all but his Oncologist quickly put a halt to that idea. She said that because of his inability to adequately fight off infections he by default is classified as immunocompromised and should never receive any live virus vaccine.

 

So, to answer your question, YES! We live kind of like hermits during the flu season. My kids have also had it implanted into their heads handwashing techniques etc. They were taught from an early age not to touch their faces, not to eat before washing, etc. It has been imprinted into them for so long now because of the incresed risk to my son that it is as natural as breathing.

 

Don't feel alone. You are not the only "freaky" homeschooler out there. ;)

 

 

Thanks for this post! Can you give me any pointers on how to pass the time? I am usually an out and about type person. And, for most of this H1N1 stuff, we carried on as normal. However, we live in a small town and we suddenly had this "BAM" effect with the flu. It hit hard and fast. There are tons of kids in public school who are sick. And the parents here and UNBELIEVABLE in that they take their kids around town. We got a haircut the other day and the woman who cut their hair said her dd was sick and the other stylist's son was sick. Phone rang and it was the school asking the other stylist to come get her ds - he was vomiting and running a fever. As we got in the car to leave the salon, the mom was pulling back in...WITH HER SON...she was going to back to work and he was coming to sit in the salon all day and breathe on the clients. I mean, WHAT ARE PEOPLE THINKING??? The mentality in this town is what makes me want to hide under a rock. If there weren't so many disrespectful parents who bring sick kids around to every function, I wouldn't worry so much.

 

Anyway, all that to say that my "plan" is to ride out the storm of sickness here at home. When things start to die down here, I will venture back out. But right now, it is just a risk I don't want to take...especially since there is no shot form of the vaccine for us to take right now.

[Perry]

The mentality in this town is what makes me want to hide under a rock.

 

It's like this here too.

 

Last week, my dd came home from the homecoming dance and related a long list of kids that were there with high fevers. They'd looked forward to homecoming for so long they just couldn't bear to miss it. :glare: These kids thought it was funny that they were sharing drinking glasses.

 

Last week, several of her friends that were at the dance were hospitalized with flu. One had no health problems, one was diabetic, and one had asthma. They are all out of the hospital and seem to be doing fine now.

 

Another friend came to school Thursday with a fever of 104. Dd said she looked awful and could barely sit up. But she refused to go to the nurse's office, because she had a cheer competition Saturday, and wouldn't be allowed to participate if she stayed home.

 

My girls' facebook pages are covered with people posting "high fever, feel like cr*p, see you at school". It's infuriating.

[mommyrooch]

Thanks for this post! Can you give me any pointers on how to pass the time?

 

Anyway, all that to say that my "plan" is to ride out the storm of sickness here at home. When things start to die down here, I will venture back out. But right now, it is just a risk I don't want to take...especially since there is no shot form of the vaccine for us to take right now.

 

We plan a lot of "field trips" outside of the home. Just not around people. Keep in mind that the risk is from exposure to people, not being outside.

 

We often drive through and get half price drinks at Sonic and then go to the the park. I know what you are thinking. Kids climb on the equipment. Right?

 

What most people don't realize it that viruses do not live longer than 24 hours even if they are in a controlled environment. Like inside of a house. They cannot survive longer than that outside of a host. It is even less time if the virus is exposed to the sun. Sunlight kills viruses almost instantly. As a result, outdoor playgrounds are relatively safe. Now if there are other kids there playing run for the hills! ;) However, I have found that during the day most kids are in school and therefore not at the park. We are usually able to have the park all to ourselves during the day. I even pack up lessons and we do them there sometimes.

 

We also just drive. We will grab drinks at Sonic (we love drinks at Sonic) and just drive around. We often will park somewhere and I'll read to the kids in the Van. Sometimes it's just nice to sit with our drinks, feel the warm sun on our faces and just have a change in scenery.

 

We also go camping. Again, nature is not your enemy. Other people are. Brainstorm ideas that do not involve highly populated, indoor areas. This is what we do. Virtually any outside activity is safe as long as others aren't there because mother nature keeps her area germ free. ;)

 

If it's too cold to be out we bring fun things in. This time of year I allow my kids to play video games and watch movies more than normal. We go to the special effort to make it a really fun thing. We will pop popcorn, make hot chocolate, bake cookies etc. and then curl up together on the couch for a good movie. Dad and I also make efforts to play games with the kids. They love it when we play their video games with them.

 

 

You would be amazed at what a good drive will do for you if you have cabin fever. Feeling the sun on your skin and the wind on your face will perk you up in no time. This coming from a mom that has lived with an immunocompromised son for going on 8 years.

 

And it 100% safe if it's just you guys in your car. By driving you can also see many things. We have a big drive through light display at Christmas time that we always go to. The kids love that. We also drive around and look at statues, old buildings, etc. then discuss them. How many people do you think have lived there over the years? What kinds of people? What do you think the walls would say if they could talk? What stories would that old building share? This livens up our drives and makes it fun for the kids. They even start engaging in imaginative stories like people being married there, killed there etc. It really does open the door for some pretty fun creativity. ;)

 

These are just some ideas. I hope they help.

[mommyrooch]

It's like this here too.

 

Last week, my dd came home from the homecoming dance and related a long list of kids that were there with high fevers. They'd looked forward to homecoming for so long they just couldn't bear to miss it. :glare: These kids thought it was funny that they were sharing drinking glasses.

 

Last week, several of her friends that were at the dance were hospitalized with flu. One had no health problems, one was diabetic, and one had asthma. They are all out of the hospital and seem to be doing fine now.

 

Another friend came to school Thursday with a fever of 104. Dd said she looked awful and could barely sit up. But she refused to go to the nurse's office, because she had a cheer competition Saturday, and wouldn't be allowed to participate if she stayed home.

 

My girls' facebook pages are covered with people posting "high fever, feel like cr*p, see you at school". It's infuriating.

 

Unfortunately it's like this everywhere.

 

Imagine dealing with these mindsets and having a child with a weakened immune system. I had people that KNEW my son's immune system was in the basement and they would show up to things with their snot nosed kids. No more caring about the risk it posed to my son. They would say things like "oh Susie's nose is running and she's coughing but she feels ok so it's fine. :001_huh: What? They just don't get (or don't care) that what is the sniffles and cough for Susie turns into Pneumonia requiring a 10 day hospitalization on high dose antibiotics for my son. Not to mention the weeks of Albuteral breathing treatments.

 

BTW, this happend to my son. And he's one of the lucky ones. Some immunocompromised kids die from secondary infections.

 

I just wish people would think about how their careless choices can affect others. They often times don't though. I gave up years ago trying to get people to care about my son's risk. That is why now we are proactive and we take the necessary precautions for him because the rest of the world won't.

 

This is very sad in a way. My son has been forced to live a great deal of his life in a bubble because of many peoples ignorance and selfishness. It is a shame but such is life. It still just never ceases to amaze me though how ignorant and selfish some people can be.

[Tree House Academy]

I am so sorry about what you and your son have gone through. My kids are healthy with "normal" immune systems (my older son's immune system is really incredible honestly. He had a flu that almost killed him when he was 4. Since then, so 6 years now, he has had 1 sinus infection and 1 fever....in 6 years!) and I still worry about them getting sick. I can't imagine the fear with a child who is so immunocompromised. It must be incredibly hard.

 

Thank you for all the suggestions. Getting outside definitely helps!

[Blessedfamily]

We plan a lot of "field trips" outside of the home. Just not around people. Keep in mind that the risk is from exposure to people, not being outside.

 

 

What most people don't realize it that viruses do not live longer than 24 hours even if they are in a controlled environment. Like inside of a house. They cannot survive longer than that outside of a host. It is even less time if the virus is exposed to the sun. Sunlight kills viruses almost instantly. As a result, outdoor playgrounds are relatively safe. Now if there are other kids there playing run for the hills! ;) However, I have found that during the day most kids are in school and therefore not at the park. We are usually able to have the park all to ourselves during the day. I even pack up lessons and we do them there sometimes.

 

We also go camping. Again, nature is not your enemy. Other people are. Brainstorm ideas that do not involve highly populated, indoor areas. This is what we do. Virtually any outside activity is safe as long as others aren't there because mother nature keeps her area germ free. ;)

 

....

 

Your posts have be very, very helpful. I told Dh.

 

I can take the kids outside any day I want to because everyone on the block is at school or work (except the moms, who don't come out). When the school bus comes we run!!!!

[mommyrooch]

Your posts have be very, very helpful. I told Dh.

 

I can take the kids outside any day I want to because everyone on the block is at school or work (except the moms, who don't come out). When the school bus comes we run!!!!

 

I'm glad I can help. Being a hermit doesn't have to be bad. It can be fun. Sometimes it just takes a little more creativity. ;)

 

I also thought I'd mention that if any of you guys own a camping trailer I highly recommend this. Some of our very best memories are from when we went camping on the lake. (off season with no one around) We went hiking, fishing, roasted marshmellows, played games etc. It was a blast! Definitely a family friendly yet isolated from others experience. Those times were a blast!

[Tree House Academy]

I'm glad I can help. Being a hermit doesn't have to be bad. It can be fun. Sometimes it just takes a little more creativity. ;)

 

I also thought I'd mention that if any of you guys own a camping trailer I highly recommend this. Some of our very best memories are from when we went camping on the lake. (off season with no one around) We went hiking, fishing, roasted marshmellows, played games etc. It was a blast! Definitely a family friendly yet isolated from others experience. Those times were a blast!

 

Because of where we live, we could do this just by driving up our property on the mountain. Fun Idea! Thanks!

[Teresa in MO]

my husband and I were just talking about some people have an attitude of "I'm tough, I even work when I'm sick. There is one man at his work who comes to work no matter how sick he is. My husband works alot in the field, so does not have alot of direct contact with him. In fact, he will stay away from the office when he knows this person is sick. Anyway, he told my dh one time when he was sick that he figured someone gave the sickness to him, he might as well give it to someone else!

[farmmom4him]

This has nothing to do with our church in general. It has everything to do with our children's health. For years we put up with going to church on Sunday and ahving a child sick by Wednesday. When there were only 2 or 3 children, many times, everyone would be well within a week or two. Well, now that there are six of us, it doesn't happen that way. Someone gets sick on Wednesday and still a month later someone is sick. Also, these illnesses have become more serious. Not just a cold, or sore throat, or tummy bug. But, croup, bronchitis, RSV, and pneumonia. We have two children who had RSV and now we have struggled getting them on affordable health insurance.

 

It is so frustrating to be asked by a church family member "why are you not coming to church?". They are standing there with a child who has a harsh, barking, nasty cough and green snot running down their face. I want to point and say "THAT IS WHY", "KEEP YOUR SICK KIDS HOME". But, I just try to quietly say, "due to the past two years we are staying home to help our children's immune systems heal from two years of too much sickness". This will be our third winter to stay home. In 2008 Isaiah contracted RSV at our Christmas Eve service. In 2009 Hannah and Isaiah contracted RSV at our Easter Service. I can even now, after looking back tell you which children were ill at the service. Kind of scary huh?

I find it very frustrating to walk into the nursery and see two or three children with snotty noses, diarrhea, and hacking nast coughs. The mom says "we missed play group this week cause they were sick". I think "well, it would be considerate of you to miss church too". But, I turn and leave to nurse in another room, or our van. I am tired of that and so is Brad, so we have chosen to worship at home as a family again this year.

 

This fall I took intiative to reorganize the toys in the small infant/young toddler nursery at our church. We put many toys in a cabinet, and then separated them and made it so they could be cleaned after each service. I pray that this helps cut down on some of the issues.

 

We will sometimes if weather permits attend an OUTDOOR activity during fall/winter/spring months. When we are outside, we can allow space between our children and others. The air is fresh, and not nearly as concentrated with germs. Please, note that I am canceling all of our dr, pt, and ot appointments, to prevent our children from being exposed to more stuff. We also, do not take them to the grocery store, mall, or other germ filled places. We keep them home, or we travel together, but Brad and I will take turns doing the shopping. We rarely eat out, and use lots of hand sanitizer. They take vitamins to help keep their systems in prime working order.

 

I know many believe that exposure and illness during the preschool years builds up the immune system. I believe that to be true to an extent. However, I also believe that besoming sick everytime you attend the same event may be a sign that things are out of control. Why people don't keep themselves or their sick children home is beyond me. I honestly don't feel good enough to go, so I stay home, if you didn't go to school, work or some other even on Thursday, Friday or Saturday, then you should NOT be at church on Sunday.

 

Many may be wondering if I get fellowship with others during the winter. For the most part NO. I have chosen to sacrifice that for my family's health. Believe me when I say that it is a major sacrifice. I am home all day everyday with six children. During the winter it is not uncommon for me not to leave the house, or see another adult other then Brad for two to three weeks. It becomes hard and frustrating at times. But, to keep my children healthy, and able to enjoy things as a family at home it is worth it. Can you imagine the amount of laundry that a family of 8 can produce during a bout of 24 hour stomach flu? Remember that we have four children ages four and under, and one bathroom. The price of antibiotics for six children with an upper respiratory infection, plus the office visit charge, exceeds over $500 for one illness. Yep, $500!!! An office visit is $60+ then if the antibiotic is not a $4 one then we pay full price which is often $30-$120 depending on the antibiotic used, and the amount needed to be taken.

 

It breaks my heart when one of my children gets sick. I get highly stressed if it is one of our younger two also, because they don't just get sick, they get SICK!! Everyone else will run a fever, have a runny nose, and be better in three to four days. They run a high fever 104+, and are sick for a week to two or three weeks with lingering symptoms. Earlier this summer Hannah woke with a runny nose, and a low fever. By 10 am she had a 103 temp, and we were sitting the ER here because she stopped eating, and did not have a wet diaper since 10 pm the night before. We were prescribed antibiotics and sent home. I was feeding her with a small cup every 10 min around the clock for five days. A slight cold in my other children, lasted 1 to 2 days. She was still not herself for over a week.

 

So, though you may think you or your child may only have a cold, a cold can be severe in someone else. What about that man with cancer, or the lady who had her knee replaced? Their immune systems are compromised. Meaning they are much more likely to get VERY sick. Out of respect for others, STAY HOME, and don't judge others if they are staying home because they don't want to be sick.

 

Did you know that RSV is typically nothing more then cold symptoms in older toddlers, children and adults? In infants and young toddlers it quite often leads to a hospital stay and is not uncommon for them to end up on a ventilater. That is ICU!!! We are talking over $50,000 worth of medical bills, because you thought it was a cold.

 

Maybe our health reform should look more like this:

 

Fines for coming to public places and work sick.

 

I mean we have fines for going over the speed limit or running a stop sign because someone might get hurt. Well, why not for going somewhere and exposing someone with an illness that isn't bothering you too much, but could land someone else in the hospital?

 

Not a whole lot of difference. Huh?

 

This isn't just about my children's health. If everyone would be condierate and respectful of others, and stay home when they are sick, it would save millons of dollars. People would have to take off work because of being sick LESS, because there would be LESS opportunity to get sick. You wouldn't need to worry about going to the dr for contagious illnesses as often nor would you be filling prescriptions. Ear tubes, tonsilectomies, adnoidectomies would all drop dramatically. Alot of time those result from viruses that turn into secondary infection or because of the other illnesses they have been picking up compromise their immune systems.

 

 

So, again I say STAY HOME, when you are sick!! My opinion on this matter doesn't change.

 

This was posted by me on facebook in a note after numerous people asked me why??? ;)

[hornblower]

So, again I say STAY HOME, when you are sick!!

 

Good for you!!!

 

Unfortunately I think people won't change until one or more of a couple things happen:

 

-we get hit by an aggressive pandemic virus (much more severe than H1N1)

 

-our supply of effective antibiotics starts drying up

 

-our medical systems completely collapses

 

The 2nd is already an issue. Antibiotic resistance is becoming a big problem. We've become SO blase. Just a cold. No worries. And if it gets worse? Well, I can get an antibiotic. Or if it's really bad, I might need to be hospitalized, get an IV antibiotic, maybe a bit of oxygen and in a few days I'm good to go again.

 

Well, that lucky era is drawing to a close. What if there IS not antibiotic? Or what if there is one that might work but it's $100/pill and you need a 10 day course of 4 pills a day? What if the hospitals are over crowded and anyway, the IV abx are not effective anymore, we have no good antivirals, and, did I mention, the hospitals are terribly over crowded?

 

Then people will again start to consider that when you're sick, you stay home. Don't just cover up your symptoms with some OTC decongestants & cough syrup. Stay home.

[mommyrooch]

Good for you!!!

 

Unfortunately I think people won't change until one or more of a couple things happen:

 

-we get hit by an aggressive pandemic virus (much more severe than H1N1)

 

-our supply of effective antibiotics starts drying up

 

-our medical systems completely collapses

 

The 2nd is already an issue. Antibiotic resistance is becoming a big problem. We've become SO blase. Just a cold. No worries. And if it gets worse? Well, I can get an antibiotic. Or if it's really bad, I might need to be hospitalized, get an IV antibiotic, maybe a bit of oxygen and in a few days I'm good to go again.

 

Well, that lucky era is drawing to a close. What if there IS not antibiotic? Or what if there is one that might work but it's $100/pill and you need a 10 day course of 4 pills a day? What if the hospitals are over crowded and anyway, the IV abx are not effective anymore, we have no good antivirals, and, did I mention, the hospitals are terribly over crowded?

 

Then people will again start to consider that when you're sick, you stay home. Don't just cover up your symptoms with some OTC decongestants & cough syrup. Stay home.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

If people are sick or if their kids are sick then they need to do the rest of us a favor and STAY HOME!!!!

[Only me]

I agree!!! Why do people have their kids participate in sports when they are obviously sick. A few weeks ago one of the kids on my son's baseball team was crying because he felt so sick. He was throwing up the whole day before and had a fever. His dad told him to "toughen up". The kids is only 10!

 

Yesterday one of our players had a high fever and flu symptoms. Apparently he still had a fever this morning. The parents called the coach to tell him that their son wasn't going to be at the game today. Later they called him back and said that they changed their mind. I suspect that the fever came down with meds. He showed up at the game obviously flushed. He looked miserable. He is normally one of the best players and couldn't hit or field. Even if the kid really wanted to play why would the parents let him play when he was that sick. He should be home in bed.

 

I also worry about these kids spreading germs. One of the kids on the team is immuno compromised. Of course I don't want my ds to get sick either.

[Lovedtodeath]

Maybe our health reform should look more like this:

 

Fines for coming to public places and work sick.

 

I mean we have fines for going over the speed limit or running a stop sign because someone might get hurt. Well, why not for going somewhere and exposing someone with an illness that isn't bothering you too much, but could land someone else in the hospital?

 

Not a whole lot of difference. Huh?

 

This isn't just about my children's health. If everyone would be condierate and respectful of others, and stay home when they are sick, it would save millons of dollars. People would have to take off work because of being sick LESS, because there would be LESS opportunity to get sick. You wouldn't need to worry about going to the dr for contagious illnesses as often nor would you be filling prescriptions. Ear tubes, tonsilectomies, adnoidectomies would all drop dramatically. Alot of time those result from viruses that turn into secondary infection or because of the other illnesses they have been picking up compromise their immune systems.

Really good point!

[fivetails]

Laws against going to work sick? Well, first you'd better make sure that there are laws against employers FIRING their employees for calling in sick and laws that the sick person still gets PAID for the time they're "not allowed" to be at work, since, y'know, not getting paid makes it rather hard to keep the snow off your kids' heads and food in their bellies. :001_huh:

[Supertechmom]

 

It is so frustrating to be asked by a church family member "why are you not coming to church?". They are standing there with a child who has a harsh, barking, nasty cough and green snot running down their face. I want to point and say "THAT IS WHY", "KEEP YOUR SICK KIDS HOME".

 

 

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

 

Having experienced the fun of older sibling bringing home a cold from the barking "it's only croup no harm " child and then spending a week in the hospital with RSV with a 6 week old infant and losing a great nephew who died after the virus attacked his heart.....I'm fully behind you!!

 

I also understand as a pp employers and schools are a pain and have forced some of this madness. My hubby can't miss because he has a cold or cough. We wouldn't have a job. So there would have to be a sick leave law put into place. We don't even have a job that allows us to accrue sick leave much less use any. Schools would have to revamp their sick policy and accept excuses from parents for kids that are sick but not sick enough to warrant going to the dr.

 

But when it comes to church and other activities STAY HOME!!!!! You won't go to hell for missing church because you or your kids are sick even if it is several times in a row. The devil won't devour you because you missed lady's bible study. The world won't stop spinning and life will move on without you. Pretty much any level of sports won't win or lose or even matter if your God's gift to the athletic world kid doesn't show up to play. And if God called you to preach or teach or run the sound or the choir or anything else, HE CAN FIND SOMEONE TO TAKE YOUR PLACE when you or the kids are sick. God is that big!!! I promise! Even my ped says she would ban church nursery if she could and Sunday school because of how parents are about making sure their kid is there sick or not. And let's not enough discuss the workers who show up with "it's just a cough" or "it's just the sniffles" :banghead:

 

 

Stay home!!!!:rant:

[Mom0012]

I have to say I don't understand the "stay home if you've got a cold" mentality that many homeschoolers have. Certainly if my child were in public school, there is no way I could keep them home for 2 - 3 weeks while they got over the sniffles.

 

Right now, I am paying for an expensive writing class and was quite annoyed to find that the policy is that I am not to bring my child to class if they have a cold. A fever or vomiting in the last 24 hours I understand, but a cold? That seems a little over the top to me.

 

Lisa

[Tree House Academy]

I have to say I don't understand the "stay home if you've got a cold" mentality that many homeschoolers have. Certainly if my child were in public school, there is no way I could keep them home for 2 - 3 weeks while they got over the sniffles.

 

Right now, I am paying for an expensive writing class and was quite annoyed to find that the policy is that I am not to bring my child to class if they have a cold. A fever or vomiting in the last 24 hours I understand, but a cold? That seems a little over the top to me.

 

Lisa

 

Well, there are two lines of thought there. First of all, what is a cold for your child very well may put another child in the class in the hospital (think immuno-compromised). Secondly, a cold, sniffles, allergies - these are not the issues that infuriate me (with non immuno compromised kids). If my kids catch the sniffles, big deal - but a 103 fever and vomiting is very indicative of the flu or stomach bug and thanks, but no thanks.

[Mom0012]

Well, there are two lines of thought there. First of all, what is a cold for your child very well may put another child in the class in the hospital (think immuno-compromised). Secondly, a cold, sniffles, allergies - these are not the issues that infuriate me (with non immuno compromised kids). If my kids catch the sniffles, big deal - but a 103 fever and vomiting is very indicative of the flu or stomach bug and thanks, but no thanks.

 

I totally agree with keeping children home for fevers, flu and stomach bugs. I just don't think it is reasonable to expect people to keep their children home for a cold. It's something I hear often on this board but I don't think it is something the general populations expects.

 

Lisa

[Blessedfamily]

..... For years we put up with going to church on Sunday and ahving a child sick by Wednesday. .....

 

It is so frustrating to be asked by a church family member "why are you not coming to church?". They are standing there with a child who has a harsh, barking, nasty cough and green snot running down their face. I want to point and say "THAT IS WHY", "KEEP YOUR SICK KIDS HOME". .....

 

So, again I say STAY HOME, when you are sick!! My opinion on this matter doesn't change.

 

This was posted by me on facebook in a note after numerous people asked me why??? ;)

 

This has been HOTLY debated here, but I'm going to agree with you anyway,

and my attendance to church will be altered this winter as well. It seems to be worse than public school for being a germ bed.

 

And Saturday at the library I was a bit annoyed by the father with his 12ish daughter LYING on the sofa in the children section barking non-stop like a seal. NONSTOP!

 

He's reading the newspaper, she's lying down on the sofa reading, no mouth covering whatsoever, oblivious to the world. Might they not have checked the books out and laid on the sofa at home? I felt so sorry for the librarian who was standing at the shelves behind them with a patron, looking for a book.

[Jonibee]

I lost a friend once when I backed out of attending a party because my child was only "slightly sick." She insisted that I didn't care about her enough.

 

Well, there have been so many times when people have come to my house and I wished they would have called and told me their child was "slightly sick." I would have said THANK YOU AND STAY HOME.

 

This was a very close, long-time friendship and I was sorry about it for a long time. But I still say thank you when sick people don't come to play with my kids.

[hornblower]

I have to say I don't understand the "stay home if you've got a cold" mentality that many homeschoolers have. Certainly if my child were in public school, there is no way I could keep them home for 2 - 3 weeks while they got over the sniffles.

 

Right now, I am paying for an expensive writing class and was quite annoyed to find that the policy is that I am not to bring my child to class if they have a cold. A fever or vomiting in the last 24 hours I understand, but a cold? That seems a little over the top to me.

 

Lisa

 

a) how do you know it's a cold? We (both US & Cda) don't have the public health funds to test every patient for respiratory viruses. You might have a mild case of influenza which will attack the next person more severely. A simple precautionary principle should apply.

 

b) why 2-3 weeks? A cold generally passes in a week. If it's taking longer than that, I'd be concerned about a more serious virus or a bacterial infection.

 

c) why not stay home from school? When I was growing up on the other side of the Iron Curtain, when we were sick, even with just a cold, we were examined by a dr., and put to bed (and there was no tv in the daytime in those days! LOL) . Stayed in bed while you had fever. If fever passes but cough & runny nose linger, patient still stays home but was allowed up out of bed. Once up and about, schoolwork was sent home from the school. Pupil did what they could on their own & caught up on the rest later.

 

Generally speaking the dr. would give a 7 day excused absence & then extend if necessary. If the child was fully recovered before the 7 days, parents could send their child back earlier.

 

The reason for all these precautions was simple - we had very limited access to antibiotics. If colds turned into secondary bacterial infections like bronchitis or bacterial pneumonia, it was a BIG deal.

 

This was a generation of people who knew very well that children and adults can die from very simple infections. We've forgotten that now. I think we'll have to re-learn it soon.

[HiddenJewel]

I have to say I don't understand the "stay home if you've got a cold" mentality that many homeschoolers have. Certainly if my child were in public school, there is no way I could keep them home for 2 - 3 weeks while they got over the sniffles.

 

Right now, I am paying for an expensive writing class and was quite annoyed to find that the policy is that I am not to bring my child to class if they have a cold. A fever or vomiting in the last 24 hours I understand, but a cold? That seems a little over the top to me.

 

Lisa

 

If you have seen how the current flu hits and lasts you may not be so frustrated. It is a strange virus and some only have cold symptoms while others in that same family have the fever, headache, cough, etc.

[farmmom4him]

Ok, I have tried for a long time not to bring this up with anyone, but here it is....

 

When I was pregnant with our last baby I got a bad stomach flu. I ended up dehydrated, but thought it was mild and would be fine in a couple of days. 4 days later I had ORANGE urine, was told by a friend in the medical field not to worry that it was just some dehydration stuff, drink lots and all would be good. A week later I had an amnio to check for lung maturity, told ob what was going on, and he got an odd look on his face, checked my urine it was cloudy, but neg on the quick test. The amnio showed she wasn't ready. Ten days later, however, due to pre-e symptoms and trying to hold it off, my dr chose the best option at the time to go ahead and schedule our c/s. Baby was born and at 1.5 hrs whisked away to the NICU because her o2 sat was 26%. The nicu dr came in and asked me if I had been sick, dehydrated or UTI issues. Guess what, the stomach flu caused mild dehydration, which caused a UTI, which almost cost my baby her life. The stomach flu cost us and our ins companty $287,000.

 

Yeah, I am a big time germaphobic now. If you have a cold, flu or other issues STAY HOME!!!

 

Did you know that RSV presents as a cold in older toddlers, children and adults. It is LIFE THREATENING IN MANY YOUNG TODDLERS AND BABIES

 

 

I have two children who have had RSV. One ended up in the hosptial for 3 days, the other we kept home, as it would have been two in the hospital and there wasn't room and our ped knew we would know when we were over our heads. Those 3 bouts of RSV (2 in one child a year apart) cost us and our ins $35,000

 

Yep, $35,000 for a cold in you and your older children.

 

So, again I say no matter what type of illness you have, if it is mild for you, and contagious,

 

 

 

STAY HOME!!!!!!!!!

 

 

[Tree House Academy]

Wow..lots of big bold and red and blue letters there. :lol: I do agree with you. Not sure you had to scream so loudly, but I agree.

 

My son, at the age of 3, had RSV. It didn't put him in the hospital, but it landed us in the ER. He was coughing so badly that the dr thought he had whooping cough! He couldn't get a breath in because he would cough and cough and cough. It was pitiful. He doesn't have a lung condition that we know of. He is not a sickly child and he had what very well could have been H1N1 with mild cold-like symptoms, but this one case of RSV was SCARY. The turning blue was what bothered me the most. :glare:

 

So yeah...

 

Like I said in my first post back to the "why do we have to stay home" poster - I dont' mind for kids with colds to be around MY normal, healthy kids. However, I like to be the one to make that choice. If my kids were immuno compromised, even the least bit, I would be LIVID if someone came around my kids with a cold.

[farmmom4him]

Wow..lots of big bold and red and blue letters there. :lol: I do agree with you. Not sure you had to scream so loudly, but I agree.

 

 

I didn't want anyone to miss the fine print so, I had it stick out. I am quite riled by the fact that so many don't understand. Walk in my shoes, struggle to get health ins that you can afford and be denied over and over and over again, because your children had RSV--presents as a cold in adults, children and older toddlers.

 

So, yes, if you could hear me, I would scream it, because it has cost our family dearly---where are next weeks meals coming from?? Not sure, we paid our $1000 health ins premium, took $400 out of the grocery budget to pay it, and am paying $500 a mo on medical bills, plus our business expenses, . My hubby makes $50k in a good year, and we don't qualify for state health coverage, because of the way they analyze the income for self employeed folks.

 

Yes, a bit grouchy when it comes to this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Tree House Academy]

I didn't want anyone to miss the fine print so, I had it stick out. I am quite riled by the fact that so many don't understand. Walk in my shoes, struggle to get health ins that you can afford and be denied over and over and over again, because your children had RSV--presents as a cold in adults, children and older toddlers.

 

So, yes, if you could hear me, I would scream it, because it has cost our family dearly---where are next weeks meals coming from?? Not sure, we paid our $1000 health ins premium, took $400 out of the grocery budget to pay it, and am paying $500 a mo on medical bills, plus our business expenses, . My hubby makes $50k in a good year, and we don't qualify for state health coverage, because of the way they analyze the income for self employeed folks.

 

Yes, a bit grouchy when it comes to this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

To be honest, the money issue doesn't bother me NEARLY as much as the fact that it can put a child's life in jeopardy. I would never forgive myself if I took my kids who had a cold around an immuno compromised friend of theirs and that child later died of the same illness. OMG! I can't even imagine!

[farmmom4him]

Yes, very, very true. I think I approoched that in a previous post, when by baby girl almost died at birth from complication of mine from the stomach flu. ;o(

[Supertechmom]

Because a lot of colds are actually RSV. When my baby had RSV, we ALL HAD it. Everyone one of us. My hubby stayed home from work with the oldest and I stayed in the hospital with the baby. For the baby, it required 6 months of steroid treatments and breathing treatments to help improve his lung function. For us, we just sneezed and felt miserable. For babies, it can kill them. DEAD. Two on the floor with us died that week. The one next door was there nearly a month. My sister who does have a serious lung condition couldn't be around us for 2 months. My mil who was on chemo couldn't be around us for 2 months. (to ensure no lingering relapses of the RSV) Neither were old people, heart conditions, lung issues, or blood disorders. How many people around you in the general public wear a sign saying "I have this condition" so you can know who to expose your cold to.

 

You (general all around to everybody you here :001_smile:) or your child's cold could and does kill people. You go to the grocery. IT's just a cold. You sneeze. iT"s on the buggy. IT gets passed to the next person. You sneeze over in produce. You sniffle thru meats. You touch the checkout, the card scanner, the bag racks. ALL places someone else is going to touch. And dragging around that "it's just a cold" kid, well you can imagine how much snot just got left all over the freaking store. :tongue_smilie:OR the church sunday school room or the pew, or the communion trays. I can go on and on. Send that kid to school and anybody in the classroom is going to get it and take it home. Let anybody at home have any conditions at all and that little cold can be deadly.

 

I give leeway to people who have to go to work because I know how so many are just one day and one crappy boss away from being fired but daycares, churches, schools, and all the other places people run out to while sick ........ Well you need to learn to take time to STAY HOME and get rest and get well.

 

Best experiment we ever did was put silver glitter in a spray bottle. Hold it near your face and spray it like as if a sneeze caught you by surprise and you didn't have time to cover it. Then spray again but use your typical way to "cover". By the time 4 moms and 12 kids did that and then played for the next 10 minutes, that glitter was everywhere and we were still finding sparkles later that day after multiple hand washings. Germs are just that hardy and last far longer and go far more than people realize.

[Lovedtodeath]

It isn't that simple: Many people think it is allergies and not a virus. Others will cough for weeks after they should be done with the cold. And then their are sinus infections, bronchitis and pneumonia which are supposedly not contagious.