What's it called when the need for someone to take care of another supersedes...

[4kids4me]

...that person's actual care?

 

Long story short:

 

My sister (32, boyfriend) has serious mental health issues (bipolar, anxiety, OCD, self harm: anorexia and cutting). She lives downtown, I live 40 min away in a town. Her boyfriend (29) lives with her part time. His friends are all married and starting to have children, so he and my sister are quite dependent on one another. He's been taking care of her through this illness, but it seems as if he really thrives on this role. This Monday she was hospitalized near my town and he's missing her quite a bit. They text one another continually during the day and they talk at night. He misses her so much that he's taking the bus up here tonight to see her for an hour, then takes the bus home (over an hour trip each way). Usually on Thanksgiving weekend (we're Canadian and it's this weekend) he goes with his family to close the cottage. It's a tradition they've done every year of his life. This year he doesn't want to go b/c he misses my sister so much he wants to see her. My sister wants him to go and not stay this weekend. Turns out now she's been able to get a weekend pass so he's coming up Fri to see her, and on Sat. he's taking her home (where she can continue cutting, which she has said she will).

 

It just seems...so needy and unhealthy. It seems as if he's putting his needs ahead of her own.

 

And on another note, is it my business to say something? Do I talk to my sister and suggest that perhaps this isn't a good idea?

[Danestress]

I absolutely think my husband would make that visit despite the distance and time involved, and I don't think he would go for a fun "get-away" when I was hospitalized unless we had kids and he was really doing it for their benefit. I doubt he would do it for the benefit of other adults.

 

So this doesn't seem really needy or dependent to me, but of course it's hard to convey in a post what a situation is really like. I know they aren't married, but they may feel it's not much different.

 

I'm sure there is more to this that just what you wrote - I'm just saying that based on what you did write, I don't really see the problem. If the hospital thinks it's unsafe for her to leave, they shouldn't be giving her a weekend pass. If you are worried about that, I would talk to her about that, but I would be careful not to make it about whether the relationship is the problem.

[4kids4me]

I guess my point was that SHE wants him to go and be with his family. He's bringing her home because HE misses her, not because it's what's best for her. She has said that she WILL cut and burn herself if she goes home. And from our conversation from last night, she realized when she checked in that they didn't really search her stuff well, so if she goes home, it's likely she'll bring a razor back to the hospital with her.

 

Still sound like a healthy thing to do?

[lionfamily1999]

He sounds in love (awwwwwwww). I would not say needy. Dh stayed with me at the hospital the few times I had to stay. He would bring an alarm clock and spend the night with me (warm fuzzies :) ). I've never seen it as anything other than, we love each other and want to be together. I know there's couples that do much better with time apart, but there are those of us that are glad to be joined at the hip. The way dh puts it is, 'if I didn't like being with her (me), then I would not have married her.'

 

I hope your sister stops cutting and if I were you, the only thing I would consider mentioning would be something along the lines of... can't you use your influence to make her stop cutting... and that would be to the bf.

[LaxMom]

co-dependency? He has his own need for her to be ill, so he can be the caregiver? Maybe he should check himself in, too. Then they can see each other, AND maybe he'll get some help as well. (sounds snarky, half is, but it sounds like he needs to address some issues of his own in this matter.)

[Harriet Vane]

I guess my point was that SHE wants him to go and be with his family. He's bringing her home because HE misses her, not because it's what's best for her. She has said that she WILL cut and burn herself if she goes home. And from our conversation from last night, she realized when she checked in that they didn't really search her stuff well, so if she goes home, it's likely she'll bring a razor back to the hospital with her.

 

Still sound like a healthy thing to do?

 

Call the hospital and tell them.

[lionfamily1999]

I guess my point was that SHE wants him to go and be with his family. He's bringing her home because HE misses her, not because it's what's best for her. She has said that she WILL cut and burn herself if she goes home. And from our conversation from last night, she realized when she checked in that they didn't really search her stuff well, so if she goes home, it's likely she'll bring a razor back to the hospital with her.

 

Still sound like a healthy thing to do?

Have you talked to him about the whole situation? Just curious, because it could be he is more intimate with your sister than you are and he may be the person that needs to bring these problems (the cutting et al) to the fore front to be addressed. IOW, he sounds like he adores her, so wouldn't he try to protect her from herself?

[4kids4me]

He sounds in love (awwwwwwww). I would not say needy. Dh stayed with me at the hospital the few times I had to stay. He would bring an alarm clock and spend the night with me (warm fuzzies :) ). I've never seen it as anything other than, we love each other and want to be together. I know there's couples that do much better with time apart, but there are those of us that are glad to be joined at the hip. The way dh puts it is, 'if I didn't like being with her (me), then I would not have married her.'

 

I hope your sister stops cutting and if I were you, the only thing I would consider mentioning would be something along the lines of... can't you use your influence to make her stop cutting... and that would be to the bf.

 

Ok, maybe I need to check myself into the hospital. There's a time and a place to want to be with someone. When my MIL took me on a 12 day trip last year, sure my husband missed me, but it didn't supersede me *actually* staying home to be with him. Likewise, she cannot stop cutting and starving herself and she's in the hospital being treated. Coming home will bring her right back into the same environment and she has said she WILL do it. Wouldn't LOVE say, "What's best for her is to be where she's getting medical treatment not putting MY needs above hers just because I miss her."

[4kids4me]

I absolutely think my husband would make that visit despite the distance and time involved, and I don't think he would go for a fun "get-away" when I was hospitalized unless we had kids and he was really doing it for their benefit. I doubt he would do it for the benefit of other adults.

 

So this doesn't seem really needy or dependent to me, but of course it's hard to convey in a post what a situation is really like. I know they aren't married, but they may feel it's not much different.

 

I'm sure there is more to this that just what you wrote - I'm just saying that based on what you did write, I don't really see the problem. If the hospital thinks it's unsafe for her to leave, they shouldn't be giving her a weekend pass. If you are worried about that, I would talk to her about that, but I would be careful not to make it about whether the relationship is the problem.

 

Oh, I didn't mention this but closing the cottage isn't a fun getaway. It takes the whole weekend and they work there. His dad has arthritis and can't do much of the heavy work, so he's needed.

[lionfamily1999]

Ok, maybe I need to check myself into the hospital. There's a time and a place to want to be with someone. When my MIL took me on a 12 day trip last year, sure my husband missed me, but it didn't supersede me *actually* staying home to be with him. Likewise, she cannot stop cutting and starving herself and she's in the hospital being treated. Coming home will bring her right back into the same environment and she has said she WILL do it. Wouldn't LOVE say, "What's best for her is to be where she's getting medical treatment not putting MY needs above hers just because I miss her."

See, and for us, dh and I, we just want to be together. I never said it was that way for everyone. You're not the first to imply there is something wrong with us for wanting to be together. Whatever, that's why we married each other, because we couldn't bear to be apart. I went to a three day cub scout camp and we texted and called for nearly the entire night. Again, not "normal" for some people, but then I couldn't imagine being okay with leaving dh for 12 days.

 

From his pov (your sister's bf), if the doctors think it's okay then who is he to argue? If you want to rationalize something it's so much easier when you have an authority (like a doctor) telling you it's okay. Perhaps the doctors want to see if she's prepared for being on her own, perhaps they want to break her in gently (since this is a weekend pass). Having the doctors say something that he (bf) desparately wants to hear (you can go home!) is going to make all his concerns for her welfare fly out the window. After all, he's not being selfish, he's following doctor's orders, iykwIm.

[Snickerdoodle]

 

co-dependency? He has his own need for her to be ill, so he can be the caregiver? Maybe he should check himself in, too. Then they can see each other, AND maybe he'll get some help as well. (sounds snarky, half is, but it sounds like he needs to address some issues of his own in this matter.)

This is what came to mind the way you wrote it but I realize one cannot know for certain what is really happening from an internet post.

[Laurie4b]

Ok, maybe I need to check myself into the hospital. There's a time and a place to want to be with someone. When my MIL took me on a 12 day trip last year, sure my husband missed me, but it didn't supersede me *actually* staying home to be with him. Likewise, she cannot stop cutting and starving herself and she's in the hospital being treated. Coming home will bring her right back into the same environment and she has said she WILL do it. Wouldn't LOVE say, "What's best for her is to be where she's getting medical treatment not putting MY needs above hers just because I miss her."

 

The professionals caring for her are the ones giving her the pass. If they thought it was bad for her, they wouldn't give it. On the one hand, you seem to think they do a good job because you want her to stay there for the weekend. Yet you don't like the idea of the weekend pass (which the professionals gave) but your upset seems to be with the boyfriend and why he's so selfish. It's confusing why you sound as if you expect him to be making the medical decisions (she shouldn't leave this weekend) instead of the hospital.

 

It sounds like there is more to it. Has the hospital given you reason to think that the clinical judgment exercised by their staff is poor? Is it that you think treatment is incompetent (and it doesn't seem like you do because you want her to stay there) or do you have issues with the bf.? Do you think she should be with family instead of bf? Are you wishing that a family member was the main contact person?

 

I think the most helpful thing you can do for your sister is to advise the hospital of the information that you have ( including your sister's report that they don't search well enough) . Then back out of it. I also think it would be good to explore why the bf issue bothers you to the degree that it does (and why you're not writing about the hospital rather than about him) . Maybe there is a lot you're not telling here, but it doesn't fit with what you've written, in which his behavior seems perfectly normal. If she's cutting, etc. there are probably control issues. Strong opinions from loved ones about what helps often exacerbates those. Also , those with these kinds of issues often play both sides of the fence, keeping people stirred up. Your info may be different than his which may be different than what the hospital knows. So tell them what you know and leave it at that.

Edited October 8, 2009 by Laurie4b

[Gretchen in NJ]

It sounds like love to me. I didn't read anything out of the ordinary in your post. I think he sounds sweet. If my sister had the issues your sister has, I would be very happy for her.

[Danestress]

If she really wants him to go away and doesn't want to go with him, I wonder if she has told him that directly. I can certainly imagine her agreeing with you when you say it's bad idea and then agreeing with him when he says it's a great idea. If that is the case, I can't really say he's doing something selfish or wrong or putting himself above her needs. Maybe he's not really seeing her need well.

 

I tend to think that if they are giving her a weekend pass, they think this is okay. If you disagree and are really worried, I would talk to her about it or talk to the doctor about it and I think you have to be an advocate sometimes for a person who is vulnerable, and sometimes that means getting involved in something. So I am not telling you not to call - call if your gut is telling you to because I know you don't want her to hurt herself and you may be in a better position to know if she will than her doctors and nurses.

 

I'm just saying that I think that if I were in the hospital, DH would not leave me. Neither of us would likely leave the other for a twelve day pleasure trip either. That's just not the way we roll - or isn't the way we have so far, though I don't think there is anything wrong with it if that's how you and your DH are comfortable. I just also think there is nothing wrong with telling parents, old or not, "DW needs me," (or in this case, girl friend) "and I am simply not leaving town when she's in the hospital."

 

But we are married. Do you think your DS is in a relationship that she doesn't want to be in? Do you think she wants a break from him but isn't strong enough to say so?

[lionfamily1999]

It sounds like love to me. I didn't read anything out of the ordinary in your post. I think he sounds sweet. If my sister had the issues your sister has, I would be very happy for her.

Thank you, I don't feel like a total crackpot now :)

[Tree House Academy]

Men seem to have this overwhelming need to "make things better." I can tell you that, if I was bipolar, cut myself, burned myself, etc. I am not really sure my dh would even stick around. He has a tough time dealing with my OCD and hypochondria. The fact that her boyfriend cares that much about a woman to whom he is not even married is very touching to me. Perhaps it is because of his love for her that she is in the hospital trying to get better. Perhaps he visits her everyday because he wants to be there for her - because he doesn't want her to go through this alone. It is very likely that he knows her heart and soul much more than you do - being as close to her as he is. It also sounds like you are put out with her...like you have already determined what is *best* for her and this is not following your plan. I don't get it. ??

[Rebecca VA]

I think that dear man deserves a thank-you for all he does for your sister. Perhaps you could ask him what you could do to make his life easier?

 

If he weren't around, so much of the burden would fall upon you.

[4kids4me]

Thanks for all the replies. I'm taking each into consideration, especially the ones that are going against what I've said (I'm listening, really I am).

[Joanne]

Yes, it's normal, expected, wonderful and reasonable to want to be with and around those people we romantically love.

 

However, that doesn't mean that his behavior is healthy for either of them.

 

Inherent in part of her illness(es) is a desire to not get well (the bi-polar and cutting especially). As such, contributing to a break in institutional care is not a loving act.

 

His intensity combined with her complicated situation concerns me.

[kalanamak]

Coming home will bring her right back into the same environment and she has said she WILL do it.

 

Perhaps the treatment team has heard it all and wants to "call her bluff". Perhaps she's telling them she'll cut herself if they DON'T give her a pass. Perhaps they see this guy as her only chance of her getting out and staying out. These situations are complicated.

 

However, IME, dramatic people such as this tend to have really, really intense relationships that usually burn out fairly quickly. In the long run, while it is very sad and dismaying, you have to let grown people of 32 bumble on. I wish I had "sane and sensible" fairy dust for you, but no one does. Cutting and starving, while depressing and disheartening, is not the same as jumping off buildings or shooting people at a bus stop. Current thinking is to get people who harm themselves in a non-lethal way OUT of the hospital, because in house (the hospital) they have 24/7 company/sympathy/nursing/attention and OFTEN get worse and become "institutionalized".

 

Yes, he may sound "sweet" to the outside world, but I know what you mean, and have seen it very, very often. Such alliances have to run their course. :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: to the 10th power.

[OHGrandma]

Thanks for all the replies. I'm taking each into consideration, especially the ones that are going against what I've said (I'm listening, really I am).

 

Are you thinking of 'co-dependant'? He needs her to be sick, so he can rescue her. She needs him to rescue her, so she can't get well without him? If this has been your sisters pattern, I can see where you don't think this is a healthy relationship.

[Denisemomof4]

it sounds like he's crazy about her. That's real sweet! But I do think he needs to consider what's best for HER to get better ahead of his needs. Maybe he wants her home so HE can keep an eye on her???

[tex-mex]

He sounds in love (awwwwwwww). I would not say needy. Dh stayed with me at the hospital the few times I had to stay. He would bring an alarm clock and spend the night with me (warm fuzzies :) ). I've never seen it as anything other than, we love each other and want to be together. I know there's couples that do much better with time apart, but there are those of us that are glad to be joined at the hip. The way dh puts it is, 'if I didn't like being with her (me), then I would not have married her.'

 

I hope your sister stops cutting and if I were you, the only thing I would consider mentioning would be something along the lines of... can't you use your influence to make her stop cutting... and that would be to the bf.

 

:iagree: He does sound like he loves her. He may be the knight in shining armour for her situation? As for your sister's issues for OCD, cutting, etc... she won't change for anyone. It is a serious mental illness that needs counseling and meds. All you can do is be there for her with unconditional love and support. You can tell her how you feel -- but that may be a sticky wicket as it could backfire and I don't know if she can handle such a conversation. He sounds like a winner, tho'! Loves her just the way she is. Wow. :blush: That is beautiful.

 

EDITED: I forgot to mention if she is still cutting -- that you have to notify the hospital staff. That is not healthy. Another thought is maybe the bf thinks he can "change" her -- most folks in love do feel this way before the cold hard reality of mental illness sets in. Poor guy.

Edited October 9, 2009 by tex-mex