My 8th grader is struggling and I'm unsympathetic

[ondreeuh]

My 8th grade DD, turning 14 this month, has never been a strong student. Now, she's smart, but she has never really gotten the knack of working hard. I think it mostly boils down to her inability to give herself a kick in the pants. Frankly, I don't want to do it either! I give her suggestions, tips, and tools, but I do NOT want to hover over her. This is a long-standing issue and she even took a study skills class last year (the least-organized kids were nominated for the class) but almost got kicked out for not being organized enough. :001_huh:

 

This is her first year fully homeschooling. She is having big problems getting her work done efficiently - so she spends her entire day "doing her homework" (ha!) and then feels overwhelmed and like she has too much to do. Honestly, I do NOT think it's too much work. Here's what a typical week looks like:

 

Daily:

A History of US: 2-3 chapters, briefly outlined in a notebook

Chalkdust Algebra 1: (video + review problems one day, every-other-odd the next day)

Tom Sawyer: 2 chapters per day with brief comprehension questions from Lightning Lit

Vocabulary from Classical Roots: Daily study

Saxophone practice: 20 min (which she rarely gets done)

 

M/W/F:

PH Science Explorer: One section and guided study/review worksheets

 

T/Th:

Easy Grammar Plus: one lesson w/ me

Critical Thinking: one lesson w/ me

 

I know her subjects are a *little* time-intensive, but it's not nearly as rigorous as I'd like. I'm trying to prepare her for high school, as she plans to return to PS next year for 9th.

 

She wastes a ton of time doing NOTHING. A few times I have checked on her and found her curled up in bed asleep with her history book on her face. :glare: Way too many times I have caught her online. She has a puter in her bedroom so she can do her Algebra DVDs and her SmartMusic (interactive practice program) there, and I don't think there's an easy way to turn off 'net access.

 

Here are the tips I have given her:

- Try to get all math done between 8:30-9:30 (we leave for her writing class at 9:30) so that you get that out of the way and start the day feeling accomplished

- Keep the computer OFF until you absolutely need it for Algebra or music

- Make goals for how long your subject should take (60 min. for math, 45 for history, lit and science) and set a timer and try to finish before time's up

-Read ahead (lit) on the weekends to lighten the load on the weekdays

 

She need silence/no distractions while she works, and in our house the only quiet place is her bedroom, which clearly isn't working too well. Tonight I forced her to sit at the dining room table after her brothers were in bed, and she still spent probably a half hour complaining that she was too upset, frustrated and overwhelmed to concentrate. I finally told her to go cry in her room about it (nice, I know) because I was tired of listening to her wallow in self-pity and not make any effort to DO anything about it. I finally set a timer and left the room and that got her moving.

 

I sweet-talked her into homeschooling with stories of a rigorous education that would prepare her for H.S. honors classes, as well as free time to pursue her other interests. Well now I'm worried that neither will happen. She signed up for NaNoWriMo (challenge to write a 50k word novel during the month of November) but I don't see HOW she will find time. She also plans to enter a couple of writing & art contests which I really want to encourage.

 

Please, if you have any advice I would love to hear it.

[Seraphina71]

I don't have much advice, but I do have a friendly shoulder to cry on. I also have a girl turning 14 this month. She is absolutely brilliant (was in gifted when in PS) but about the laziest thing on Earth. You are NOT alone.

[Reya]

There are lots of easy ways to turn off internet access.

 

Start by deleting the password to the router from the computer, so it has to be typed in each time.

 

Give her a timer. Have her run laps or do jump-squats if caught off task.

 

Allow lunch only after a certain amount of work is done.

[freerange]

Remove the internet cable from her computer, or if you have wireless, take the password off. Then either you have to enter the password for her or she should use another pc for internet where you can supervise.

Could she work downstairs with headphones? If she can't work in her room & headphones aren't an option, she's going to have to learn to work downstairs even though there are distractions. She needs to master this now, because it will only get worse as she gets older & as the workload increases, the distractions increase too.

[Annabel Lee]

Andrea, I don't have a whole lot of advice but I can give you a (((hug))). I've got a 13 yo dd and she goes to a public charter school. The schedule you laid out looks very much like my dd's 8th grade class. Most of the kids take outside instrument/art/sport lessons, so they have that additional practice time as well. I know it's hard to offer much help when they give reasons why your help won't work, or just won't do anything, etc. The only suggestions I have are these: It sounds like you're doing a great job working on fostering independence and responsibility in her; it also sounds like you're frustrated in this area. If she cannot come up w/ reasonable timeframes for how long ea. subject should take, maybe she needs you to give her that frame to work within. Could it be that the nice comfy bed and easy access to internet are just too much temptation (when faced w/ the option of schoolwork) for her, if even only at times? I agree with limiting internet access in some way until it's time for her to do her computer subjects (are the online, or just on the computer?). If they're online, you could type in the password when it's time for those subjects. Could she get some noise-cancelling headphones or earplugs for working outside her bedroom? I would assign reading ahead for lit. on the weekends rather than relying on her to make the decision to do it, if she's never decided to on her own. It may take a little backing up and holding her hand until she gets it down, then slowly wean her off to more independence once she proves she can handle it *and* perform well academically. Just my 2 cents, and that's about how much they're worth. :)

[Laura Corin]

Things that have worked for my 7th grader this year:

 

Isolate him but in plain sight. He works at the homeschool room table, I take Hobbes off to the sitting room/kitchen to work.

 

If he is working on anything in his bedroom (this is rare) it's on an old, non-internet laptop.

 

Start each day with 'fast' subjects to get him moving fast, so anything that is on a tight schedule, like a maths test.

 

Have him sit on a hard chair with a disc-o-sit to keep his brain awake.

 

Have no mercy about work being completed. If it's not done on the day, then it gets done in the evenings and at weekends. No letting off.

 

At least an hour of good exercise a day to get the energy up.

 

Lots of cuddles and sympathy, allied with an iron determination not to give in.

 

Laura

[knit247]

Your DD sounds a lot like me at that age (and beyond)! I tested gifted but was always labeled an underachiever. I couldn't / wouldn't / didn't finish much of anything. Ever. My grades could have been all "A"s but were often "C"s and even a "D" or two.

 

As an adult (38 yo to be precise), I was diagnosed with ADHD-Inattentive type. Common traits? Inattention, forgetfulness, procrastination, easily distracted, disorganized, fatigue... Is it possible that your daughter may fall into this category? Just a thought.

 

I hope you find something that works, and agree with the others to get the computer out of her room, or at least figure a way to limit her time online. :grouphug:

[Rebecca VA]

I would give her more attention. Ask her comprehension questions after every literature or history reading. Grade her math the moment she turns it in to you. Keep checking on her, and tell her if she can't get her work done quickly upstairs she'll stay downstairs where you can see her.

 

I have a seventh-grader with ADD. She's very smart, and she does well in school, but my job all day long is to keep her moving along. She knows my attention is always on her, even if she's in another room. I don't go off and do other things that will cause me to neglect her. In literature, which really bores her, we read together and discuss the material right there on the spot. I quiz her every day in Latin.

 

We talk about "standards" all the time. She is just starting to understand high standards and low standards, and she's under peer pressure to perform at a high standard. We have public-school neighborhood children who are in gifted classes and whose parents expect a lot out of them. (Praise the Lord!) Her homeschooled friends are working every bit as hard as she is, and most of them are in speech and debate, which is extremely demanding. She wants to be the best ballet student in her class, so she's constantly evaluating herself. I'm trying to instill a degree of perfectionism in her, because it isn't naturally there, and it's starting to kick in.

[Paisley Hedgehog]

nm

[Stacy in NJ]

Some kids are great at self starting, other's not so much.

 

You can turn this into a year long failure and struggle, or you can put some back stops and structure into her day, helping her along the way.

 

Some tips:

 

Monitor her more closely. Leaving her with all of her assignments to do without accountability will create failure. Sit down with her and discuss a more structured schedule. What subjects come first, next, last. Figure out an appropriate amount of time to spend on each topic and use a timer. Add structured breaks between topics. Let her have 30 minutes of computer time after she completes each major assignment.

 

Not only do I know teens who aren't capable of completing a days worth of work without accountability, I know adults who fall into this category. I understand not wanting to create dependency, but you're really teaching her how to manage her time by providing the structure she needs. You can throw her into the deep end and hope she swims, or you can teach her to swim first.

[jibaker103]

Your dd and my ds are twins!! Everything you have brought up I am dealing with, so I know just how frustrating it is. For me the best solutions so far are:

 

1. Remove tv and computer from bedroom. He invariably was on it at times when he should be studying or sleeping. Temptation is just too high!

 

2. Do not allow any studying in bedroom. Even though he had a desk and a reading area he chose to get in bed and would automatically get sleepy.

 

3. Work somewhere that is quiet but in plain sight such as the office when I and the daycare kids are in the family room and in the family room on the computer when they are asleep.

 

4. Moved his command center with workboxes to a centralized area so I could see him go back and forth with the next set of books.

 

5. Workboxes have been a lifesaver for such a disorganized and lack of time management type of person. All books and materials are in each box and he must do them in a certain order, not move on to the next box until current box is complete and spot checked by me. I try to get him to use a timer with each box but it has not been to successful. However, the spot check gives me an idea of how long it is taking him.

 

6. I also have my own workbox so that I stay organized and he cannot use not having materials as an excuse for not doing his work.

 

7. Let go of schedules based on time. One day he would be up at 7:00 the next 10! My only guidelines are that school must start by 10:00 and all assignments turned in by 3:30 or it becomes homework to be done on his own time after 4:00. If all homework is not completed by Friday at 3:30 it must be done over the weekend with no fun activities until completed. If not turned in by Sunday at 8 pm he looses all electronics (tv, computer, and video games) and fun activities for the school week. I also plan to have him meet with me on Mondays in the morning before 10:00 to discuss the week and on Fridays at 3:45 pm to discuss how the week went and if he has met all requirements.

 

I hope some of this is helpful to you. If you have any questions or any ideas I am all ears!!!

[JudoMom]

Some kids are great at self starting, other's not so much.

 

You can turn this into a year long failure and struggle, or you can put some back stops and structure into her day, helping her along the way.

 

Some tips:

 

Monitor her more closely. Leaving her with all of her assignments to do without accountability will create failure. Sit down with her and discuss a more structured schedule. What subjects come first, next, last. Figure out an appropriate amount of time to spend on each topic and use a timer. Add structured breaks between topics. Let her have 30 minutes of computer time after she completes each major assignment.

 

Not only do I know teens who aren't capable of completing a days worth of work without accountability, I know adults who fall into this category. I understand not wanting to create dependency, but you're really teaching her how to manage her time by providing the structure she needs. You can throw her into the deep end and hope she swims, or you can teach her to swim first.

 

:iagree:

[tdeveson]

Your DD sounds a lot like me at that age (and beyond)! I tested gifted but was always labeled an underachiever. I couldn't / wouldn't / didn't finish much of anything. Ever. My grades could have been all "A"s but were often "C"s and even a "D" or two.

 

As an adult (38 yo to be precise), I was diagnosed with ADHD-Inattentive type. Common traits? Inattention, forgetfulness, procrastination, easily distracted, disorganized, fatigue... Is it possible that your daughter may fall into this category?

 

This is exactly what I was going to post. Many "lazy, underachievers" are simply suffering from untreated ADHD. She sounds exactly the way I was when I was a child. I was an adult by the time I was diagnosed. My mother always regretted having had such a lazy child and she never stopped to think that perhaps I was completely overwhelmed.

 

It's worth noting that once I had a diagnosis, I was able to find tools to help me focus. I am currently considered an over-achiever, having received several degrees, running a very profitable business, homeschooling both my children, and running a support group/co-op. I could have never achieved any of this if I had taken my mother's attitude to heart. Her idea of helping me was to nag and belittle. She was completely unhelpful and only served to make my condition worse. I had to pay a psychologist to do what my mother should have done if she hadn't been so wrapped up in her "poor me, my kid is lazy," routine. He taught me how to organize my life, how to prioritize, how to keep myself on track. He also worked to undo the damage my mother's ignorance had caused me.

 

If it sounds like I'm siding with your daughter, it's because I am. Your daughter needs you to hover, whether it's convenient or not. She needs *you* to help her get organized. Telling her to do it is a waste of time.

 

Before you go on about your "lazy" child, and take other people's advise to have her go without food, or make her sit on an uncomfortable chair, take her to a doctor and have ADHD ruled out. It may turn out that your child simply needed medical attention that she never received.

Edited October 8, 2009 by tdeveson

[Julie in MN]

nt

Edited October 9, 2009 by Julie in MN

[ondreeuh]

Wow! What nice support to wake up to! Thank you all. I find a little comfort that she isn't the only kid doing this.

 

Remove the internet cable from her computer, or if you have wireless, take the password off. Then either you have to enter the password for her or she should use another pc for internet where you can supervise.

 

I need to figure this out. We have wireless and she has an iMac. I do remember the router password I just have to figure out the settings on the computer.

 

Could she work downstairs with headphones? If she can't work in her room & headphones aren't an option, she's going to have to learn to work downstairs even though there are distractions. She needs to master this now, because it will only get worse as she gets older & as the workload increases, the distractions increase too.

 

Unfortunately we live in a little one-story house. I school her 3rd grade brother in the dining room, which opens up to the kitchen and LR. I may have her help me move a little table to the kitchen and she can just do her best - she would be in my eyesight but not right next to me ... but she would be next to the snacks. :001_huh:

 

Your DD sounds a lot like me at that age (and beyond)! I tested gifted but was always labeled an underachiever. I couldn't / wouldn't / didn't finish much of anything. Ever. My grades could have been all "A"s but were often "C"s and even a "D" or two.

 

As an adult (38 yo to be precise), I was diagnosed with ADHD-Inattentive type. Common traits? Inattention, forgetfulness, procrastination, easily distracted, disorganized, fatigue... Is it possible that your daughter may fall into this category? Just a thought.

 

I have tossed this idea around for couple years. My 3rd grader has ADHD (strongly impulsive) and I'm so used to his symptoms :willy_nilly: and I do know that a dx has been a wonderful thing for him. He's not blamed for what he can't help, and he is on medication which keeps him on Earth. I don't have experience with inattentive ADD and I have been hoping she will be able to recognize it as an area she needs to work harder to compensate in. The study skills class, for example, covered things like estimating how long each subject will take, prioritizing the subjects, checking them off, and getting your parent's signature. All useful stuff, most of which she forgot to implement regularly. The poor cat would starve if I didn't remind her to feed him (and I wait as long as I can).

 

She is seeing a counselor (for anxiety issues) and the counselor does specialize in ADD/ADHD. I suppose I need to call and ask for an eval. I think that the clinic can also prescribe treatment (through an MD) but I'm not sure.

 

 

I would give her more attention. Ask her comprehension questions after every literature or history reading. Grade her math the moment she turns it in to you. Keep checking on her, and tell her if she can't get her work done quickly upstairs she'll stay downstairs where you can see her.

 

I would like to find a way to do this. Problem is, I teach her brother as well and he requires most of my attention (ADHD and LD). We have a somewhat narrow window to work with, as my dd goes to the PS twice a day for electives and when she's home in-between, my toddler takes a beautiful, long nap. During that naptime my ds and I work pretty intensely to cover everything and I can only leave him when set up to do something independently. I do check on her, though.

 

We talk about "standards" all the time. She is just starting to understand high standards and low standards, and she's under peer pressure to perform at a high standard. We have public-school neighborhood children who are in gifted classes and whose parents expect a lot out of them. (Praise the Lord!) Her homeschooled friends are working every bit as hard as she is, and most of them are in speech and debate, which is extremely demanding. She wants to be the best ballet student in her class, so she's constantly evaluating herself. I'm trying to instill a degree of perfectionism in her, because it isn't naturally there, and it's starting to kick in.

 

Thank goodness my dd's friends are high achievers and motivate her. My dd really wants to do honors classes in HS (so she's not held back by the slackers) so the stakes will only increase. She's not a "slacker" because she DOES want to learn and does care about school ... but she does beat herself up about slacking off.

 

Some kids are great at self starting, other's not so much.

 

You can turn this into a year long failure and struggle, or you can put some back stops and structure into her day, helping her along the way.

 

Some tips:

 

Monitor her more closely. Leaving her with all of her assignments to do without accountability will create failure. Sit down with her and discuss a more structured schedule. What subjects come first, next, last. Figure out an appropriate amount of time to spend on each topic and use a timer. Add structured breaks between topics. Let her have 30 minutes of computer time after she completes each major assignment.

 

Not only do I know teens who aren't capable of completing a days worth of work without accountability, I know adults who fall into this category. I understand not wanting to create dependency, but you're really teaching her how to manage her time by providing the structure she needs. You can throw her into the deep end and hope she swims, or you can teach her to swim first.

 

I fall into that category of being an adult who needs Big Brother watching me to make sure I'm on task ... Homeschool Tracker is my Big Brother now, as well as the need to be consistent for my ds. I don't mind holding her accountable, but I don't want to do it FOR her. I really don't think I'm throwing her in the deep end to drown. I am giving her support, tips, and tools, but I feel like she needs to have a little personal responsibility & natural consequences. It's not like she's sequestered all day into a separate part of the house with no interaction. She has 1.5 hours each morning to work, 2 hrs. 15 min. each day to work between electives, and then time after school. She frequently wanders around for bathroom breaks, snacks, and to tell me something funny. I check in on her every hour or so.

 

I did give her a daily schedule (w/ times ) so I will try sticking with that for a few days and see if it's do-able. I need an alarm clock that lets me set like twelve alarms. :001_smile:

[missmoe]

If your goal is to get her ready for high school next year, she needs more structure. High schools don't expect kids to come up with their own schedules. She will need to be in math class right at 8:47, and the homework assigned will need to be turned in the next day right at 8:47. If it isn't, not only will her grade suffer but she will most likely be assigned detention where she will have to sit down and work on it. She will have mentors in the form of teachers. They will teach her. They are there to discuss things and help with questions. I really think sending her off to work on her own is not going to accomplish what you want to accomplish.

 

I say this as a parent who this year sent her dd to high school after homeschooling her for 8 years. I worried about time management also. I think the best thing I did for her last year was to hold her accountable for work. She still took so much longer than I expected to get her work done, but if it wasn't done in the time allotted it turned into homework. Her first month at school this year she did take hours to get her homework done, but now she is moving much quicker.

 

Sit down, put together a schedule--sure let her have some say, but hey you are still the teacher. Hold her to the schedule and be her teacher.

[ondreeuh]

You can see my above reply, which addresses many of your points, but in a nutshell: she goes to the PS twice a day for electives (and stays for lunch) to feed her need for social interaction. The problem with making school a "social" time is that she would never be able to focus. I'd love to have her in the same room doing her work, but that won't work. She can't even work w/ headphones (plus I would get annoyed at the singing LOL). Maybe we'll try earplugs.

 

Her bedroom is directly off from the living room so she is not far away. I check in about hourly. It's definitely not complete isolation and independence!

 

She has a printed assignment calendar each week to show her her assignments, and she has clearly defined "school hours."

 

8:30-9:30 - school work (ideally math)

9:30-11:15 - away from home for writing elective

11:15-1:30 - school work (usually history & Lit)

1:30-3:00 - away from home for band

3 + school work. (science or grammar/logic) and finish up other work.

 

I was trying to be flexible and allow her some freedom to choose which subjects to do when, but I do think I need to set a timer and say "time's up, 15 min break and then on to the next subject" so that she has that looming thread of "homework" to motivate her. That's a natural consequence, which I prefer.

 

I do appreciate your input. Hopefully you understand the situation better.

[ondreeuh]

I think you are expecting a lot for a first year homeschooled kid. She isn't use to being this independent and you need to teach her the skills to get her work done. Yes you need to stay on top of her, set a timer, check on her a lot. You can't expect her to do something you haven't worked up to.

 

Well, we have spent the last three years (when she was in PS) working on managing her homework assignments, so this isn't new. Obviously, it is a step up, so her weaknesses are more of a problem.

 

I never said I didn't want to be involved and I did list the tips and structure I have given her (which I will be increasing) but there is still that point where she needs to sit down, open her book, and read, write notes, etc. That's the part I can't do for her and I can't exactly put her in a neck brace to keep her head pointed down at her desk (or can I?)

 

Removing one little cord will disconnect the internet from your dd's room btw.

 

Not with a wireless router ;) I just need to figure out how to get it to not automatically connect.

[Stacy in NJ]

Well, we have spent the last three years (when she was in PS) working on managing her homework assignments, so this isn't new. Obviously, it is a step up, so her weaknesses are more of a problem.

 

I never said I didn't want to be involved and I did list the tips and structure I have given her (which I will be increasing) but there is still that point where she needs to sit down, open her book, and read, write notes, etc. That's the part I can't do for her and I can't exactly put her in a neck brace to keep her head pointed down at her desk (or can I?)

 

 

 

Not with a wireless router ;) I just need to figure out how to get it to not automatically connect.

 

You can disconnet the router at the router. Just unplug it. She doesn't need internet access to watch DVD's (chalkdust) on her PC or MAC.

[DianeJM]

This is a great thread.

I have lived through this 3 times already, with different solutions for different kids. It's hard.

It has to do with their age, their personality, learning style, with being at home, and probably many other factors.

My kids at this age were anxious to get out of the house for activities or classes, or just to see other people.

 

I can relate with that! Think of the drudgery of it all -- getting up in the morning, sitting down with books by yourself all day, going to bed at night, getting up the next day to the same thing. I think for some of these kids, it could just be the mundaneness of it that is such a de-motivator -- same thing every day, blah, blah, blah.

 

On the other hand, they HAVE to do it! That's life.

I agree with the poster who suggested to model the scheduling thing with them and sort of help them through it.

At this age, I think it's a rare student who has the self-discipline to keep things going.

 

You might even have a chat with her about it, and get an idea of how she feels about it. If nothing else, it may just give her a sense that you are on her team. Not sure if this is even doable. Maybe she might even have thoughts about how to make improvements? I don't know, but I have found that keeping the communication open as much as possible (and it's not easy at this age) is KEY.

 

I'm not sure this is any help or not, but I just wanted to jump in to say there are MANY of us with this same struggle.

I hope you will find a solution.

Blessings,

[nutmeg]

I don't think the workload is too much (I have a 14yodd too), but this schedule would drive us nuts:

 

8:30-9:30 - school work (ideally math)

9:30-11:15 - away from home for writing elective

11:15-1:30 - school work (usually history & Lit)

1:30-3:00 - away from home for band

3 + school work. (science or grammar/logic) and finish up other work.

 

This is 7.5-8 hours of school, plus 4 changes of location, plus homework.

 

It would be too choppy for us, in and out of the house, and we would lose focus over the course of the day.

 

We do the same history & Lit that she does and we can finish in 2.25 hours. But we read and discuss it together, bouncing ideas off each other.

 

May I ask, what was your primary driving force for choosing homeschooling?

 

And is being out of the house for almost 3.5 hours daily helping to meet that goal?

[Stacy in NJ]

Reviewing the additional schedule information you've posted, she is out of the house for large chunks of the day twice. This would be a real distraction in my house. Not only does she need to get herself ready to go, she'll need some transition time once she gets home. I'm not surprised at all that she's having a hard time focusing.

 

Couple other notes: The running time of the DVD lessons for Chalkdust are quite long. Some lessons go on for more than an hour. I would have a hard time using Chalkdust because of this. Perhaps another math program with shorter videos would benefit her? Tabletclass, Teaching Textbooks, or Saxon with the DIVE dvd all have shorter, incremental lessons. I also think outlining 2 or 3 chapter from Hakim everyday is a bit much. JMO

Edited October 8, 2009 by Stacy in NJ
more

[Stacy in NJ]

You'll get some excellent advice from some more experienced HS'ers that have BTDT.

[MIch elle]

Reviewing the additional schedule information you've posted, she is out of the house for large chunks of the day twice. This would be a real distraction in my house. Not only does she need to get herself ready to go, she'll need some transition time once she gets home. I'm not surprised at all that she's having a hard time focusing.

 

Couple other notes: The running time of the DVD lessons for Chalkdust are quite long. Some lessons go on for more than an hour. I would have a hard time using Chalkdust because of this. Perhaps another math program with shorter videos would benefit her? Tabletclass, Teaching Textbooks, or Saxon with the DIVE dvd all have shorter, incremental lessons. I also think outlining 2 or 3 chapter from Hakim everyday is a bit much. JMO

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree: She's a teenager NOT an adult! You are expecting adult behavior from a dc; most adults would have a difficult time with what you are expecting.

 

I expect a lot from my 2 boys. When they were both homeschooling, they needed constant feedback and supervision to stay on track throughout the day. Now that my older ds is in school, the school helps him to stay on track . At night he KNOWS he has limited time to get his homework done, so he gets it done in a timely fashion.

 

This is NOT to be criticial of YOU or HER it's to let you know that this is NORMAL behavior in my experience. :D

[MIch elle]

This is a great thread.

 

It has to do with their age, their personality, learning style, with being at home, and probably many other factors.

My kids at this age were anxious to get out of the house for activities or classes, or just to see other people.

 

I can relate with that! Think of the drudgery of it all -- getting up in the morning, sitting down with books by yourself all day, going to bed at night, getting up the next day to the same thing. I think for some of these kids, it could just be the mundaneness of it that is such a de-motivator -- same thing every day, blah, blah, blah.

 

On the other hand, they HAVE to do it! That's life.

I agree with the poster who suggested to model the scheduling thing with them and sort of help them through it.

At this age, I think it's a rare student who has the self-discipline to keep things going.

 

You might even have a chat with her about it, and get an idea of how she feels about it. If nothing else, it may just give her a sense that you are on her team. Not sure if this is even doable. Maybe she might even have thoughts about how to make improvements? I don't know, but I have found that keeping the communication open as much as possible (and it's not easy at this age) is KEY.

 

I'm not sure this is any help or not, but I just wanted to jump in to say there are MANY of us with this same struggle.

I hope you will find a solution.

Blessings,

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

[ondreeuh]

I don't think the workload is too much (I have a 14yodd too), but this schedule would drive us nuts:

 

 

 

This is 7.5-8 hours of school, plus 4 changes of location, plus homework.

 

It would be too choppy for us, in and out of the house, and we would lose focus over the course of the day.

 

We do the same history & Lit that she does and we can finish in 2.25 hours. But we read and discuss it together, bouncing ideas off each other.

 

May I ask, what was your primary driving force for choosing homeschooling?

 

And is being out of the house for almost 3.5 hours daily helping to meet that goal?

 

My primary driving force for homeschooling was to improve the quality of her education.

 

The fact that she's at PS twice a day is a concession. She wants to take the writing class but more importantly, she wants to attend lunch right after it. That is her prime socialization time. Unfortunately band is later in the day so it requires a separate trip. It is what it is, and is not going to change.

 

The schedule I posted accounts for transition times. The band class, for example, is only 45 min. but I have budgeted out 1.5 hours because it takes time to get the car packed, shoes on etc., get there 10 min. early, and then get home and back in the groove. But while it can be seen as disruptive, I think it also breaks up the day in a way that she needs.

[ondreeuh]

Thanks, guys. Sometimes I need that reassurance that it's not that I'm necessarily doing anything wrong, but the age itself is difficult.

 

We do chat about this (frequently). She knows I'm on her side and want to help her. Luckily she is a very self-aware child and wants to get this figured out a well. She's a good kid :)

[ondreeuh]

I disagree that I am expecting adult behavior. I disagree that I should expect to give her constant feedback and supervision. I am giving her independence AND support. I listed the structure and strategies I have given her. Ultimately, it is up to HER to do the work.

[Stacy in NJ]

.

 

Please, if you have any advice I would love to hear it.

 

I'm finding your response to some of the other posters a bit bizarre. You've asked for advice, but when others offer it you are defensive. It's almost as if you want us to jump on board and bash your daughter along with you.

 

You know, if your daughter fails this year at homeschooling, this is your failure as well.

 

Again, I encourage you to post on the High School Board. There's a wealth of experience there.

[ondreeuh]

I'm finding your response to some of the other posters a bit bizarre. You've asked for advice, but when others offer it you are defensive. It's almost as if you want us to jump on board and bash your daughter along with you.

 

You know, if your daughter fails this year at homeschooling, this is your failure as well.

 

Again, I encourage you to post on the High School Board. There's a wealth of experience there.

 

I do get defensive when people make assumptions about what I'm doing that are completely untrue. I do feel the need to correct them. I make no apologies for that. It seems that the more detail I give, the more motivated some people are to pick me apart - which is really weird. :001_huh:

 

Obviously I know that it's my responsibility to ensure my DD has a chance to succeed. That's why I am continually reviewing my strategies and occasionally asking for advice and support - although I am questioning the wisdom of that!

 

I did post on the HS board.

[Seraphina71]

As an adult (38 yo to be precise), I was diagnosed with ADHD-Inattentive type. Common traits? Inattention, forgetfulness, procrastination, easily distracted, disorganized, fatigue... Is it possible that your daughter may fall into this category? Just a thought.

 

 

Actually, I totally agree with this. I have a very severe case of ADHD-inattentive that wasn't diagnosed until adulthood. I spent my entire life wondering why everyone kept saying how smart I was when I couldn't even do half the things most people do in a day. I was utterly and completely overwhelmed by the normal tasks of living. I do believe my daughter may be suffering with the same thing, but I'm trying non medical solutions before I take her in for possible dx. I thought about this when I wrote my short note last night, but I'm always afraid of being perceived as trying to dx someone's kid over the internet, y'know?

 

I agree with maybe finding ways to limit her distractions (I recently had to confiscate the cell phone during the day), but would personally hesitate to go so far as withholding food and the like. I also agree that you could try easing up just a bit on her curriculum until she gets into the groove, then slowly sneaking it back to where you think it should be. If she does have attention issues, it's just possible that she will really thrive once she has a courseload she can handle. Thankfully, with homeschooling, you can tweak it until it's just right for her. I started the year pretty bare bones, just math, literature and history. I've been adding in something every couple of weeks, and she seems to be accepting it a lot better that way. I think maybe she can only process so many "new" things at once.

 

I don't think it seems like you are bashing your child- just venting. I would never directly call my daughter lazy or any other name, but I called her lazy here. I also don't think you seem all that defensive, either. Asking for advice doesn't mean you have to agree with any or all of it. I don't think you've been rude in expressing your opinion. I also don't think that not getting everything just right your first year of trying means you or your lovely daughter have failed. Even if I did ( I don't!), I'd probably keep that to myself.

 

Good luck.

 

Michelle

[beezus]

I don't think the work load you are giving her is too much. What you've set out is comparable to what I'm doing with my 7th grader. Some days she can putter and waste a lot of time. I find I still have to do a lot of monitoring. Oftentimes I will insist she bring her books out to the dining room table and work there in the open where I can watch better and make sure she isn't jumping up and doing other things. A few times I have set the timer and required she sit and work on X subject non-stop until the timer goes off.

 

We try to start the day with something that's fairly easy for her. Then I have her move on to something she doesn't like, for mine it's writing, and have her focus exclusively on that for 15 -20 min. Once she engages with it, things usually move forward. It's just the getting beyond the "dreading it" stage.

 

For literature and social studies, I try to have at least short discussions with her every day about what she's read, just to make sure she is actually understanding the material. Some days I feel like a nag, but I have to make sure she is getting good study skills down and not just skimming through her work without really absorbing much.

 

Kathleen

[Stacy in NJ]

I'm going to leave this alone after this comment.

 

Your title to this post is "My 8th grader is stuggling and I'm unsympathetic" along with a winking smiley. You go on to list your daughter faults. Possibly the rational response to your post it to "pick you apart".

[ondreeuh]

Actually, I totally agree with this. I have a very severe case of ADHD-inattentive that wasn't diagnosed until adulthood. I spent my entire life wondering why everyone kept saying how smart I was when I couldn't even do half the things most people do in a day. I was utterly and completely overwhelmed by the normal tasks of living. I do believe my daughter may be suffering with the same thing, but I'm trying non medical solutions before I take her in for possible dx. I thought about this when I wrote my short note last night, but I'm always afraid of being perceived as trying to dx someone's kid over the internet, y'know?

 

I agree with maybe finding ways to limit her distractions (I recently had to confiscate the cell phone during the day), but would personally hesitate to go so far as withholding food and the like. I also agree that you could try easing up just a bit on her curriculum until she gets into the groove, then slowly sneaking it back to where you think it should be. If she does have attention issues, it's just possible that she will really thrive once she has a courseload she can handle. Thankfully, with homeschooling, you can tweak it until it's just right for her. I started the year pretty bare bones, just math, literature and history. I've been adding in something every couple of weeks, and she seems to be accepting it a lot better that way. I think maybe she can only process so many "new" things at once.

 

I don't think it seems like you are bashing your child- just venting. I would never directly call my daughter lazy or any other name, but I called her lazy here. I also don't think you seem all that defensive, either. Asking for advice doesn't mean you have to agree with any or all of it. I don't think you've been rude in expressing your opinion. I also don't think that not getting everything just right your first year of trying means you or your lovely daughter have failed. Even if I did ( I don't!), I'd probably keep that to myself.

 

Good luck.

 

Michelle

 

Thank you so much. I really needed that. :grouphug: I don't often ask for advice because of all the "extra" that comes with it.

 

Thanks for the advice about scaling back assignments. She actually started out the year with more. :001_huh: The easy one to scale back is Lit. She is a fast reader so I actually combined parts of Lightning Lit 7 & 8, but can drop a couple books and spread it out more. She does plenty of free reading and goes to the library's teen book club.

 

She is following Hewitt's schedule for A History of US which crams all 10 books into a year. That breaks down to 2-3 chapters a day (many chapters are only 2-3 pages, though) and maybe I could alternate history and science. That would mean either doing ~ 4 chapters 3x a week or just planning on not finishing the series this year. I'll ask her what she thinks.

 

Again, thanks for the vote of confidence and the solid advice. I appreciate both.

[MIch elle]

I'm going to leave this alone after this comment.

 

Your title to this post is "My 8th grader is stuggling and I'm unsympathetic" along with a winking smiley. You go on to list your daughter faults. Possibly the rational response to your post it to "pick you apart".

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

 

We tried to help YOU and now you're telling us that we're "picking you apart." I'm sorry you feel that way - we will agree to disagree!

Edited October 9, 2009 by MIch elle
typo

[ondreeuh]

Hi Kathleen, I appreciate your feedback a lot. I'm going to basically mirror what you're doing. I feel better knowing that other moms have to do it too.

[Rebecca VA]

It's hard to see a situation clearly when you're in the middle of it. It's clear to most of the people who have responded that your daughter still needs supervision and support. I speak as someone who expected too much of my older child without giving him enough support. I *thought* I was managing my time in the best way I could, but I can see clearly now that I wasn't giving this child what he needed. He has gaps in his education that I could have prevented if I'd paid more attention to what he was trying to tell me and listened to advice from well-meaning outsiders. I will have to live the rest of my life with regrets concerning this child.

 

Most of the parents I know who have children of various ages focus on their older ones until they graduate. I could never figure out why they would let their younger children go almost neglected, riding around in the back of the van, in favor of their older children. But over the years I've seen those older children graduate and be successful, and now the younger children are getting their turn. The parents actually have more to offer them because they're more experienced -- and have more time on their hands overall. It all evens out.

 

So I gently suggest you give some of the attention you're giving to your middle child to your oldest one, at least for this year while she's at home. She'll only be homeschooling this year. You will save her untold embarrassment and frustration if you help her in every possible way -- no matter how much time it takes -- to master her schoolwork. Her schoolwork should take precedence before her "fun times," before her brother's schoolwork, and almost everything else. Stacy is right; if you haven't done every last thing you can possibly do to keep her from failing, you have failed her.

[LizzyBee]

My 13 yo has never seemed to perform up to her potential. Early on, every ADD screening test I did seemed to point overwhelmingly to ADD, but my gut told me there was something else going on. She was finally diagnosed last year with learning disabilities (but not ADD). The EdPsych who tested her said that her LD's are subtle. Yet they affect everything, school and non-school.

 

I bought Understanding Girls with AD/HD by Kathleen Nadeau because my 8 yo has ADHD. Well, the book doesn't describe my 8 yo because she presents like a boy. But it's a perfect description of my 13 yo. ADHD evaluations are geared to the way boys present, so many girls go undiagnosed.

 

I've also read a couple of books about introversion and anxiety that have been helpful. I didn't realize that personality traits would affect academics, but one book about introversion was very eye-opening because, again, it's a perfect description of my 13 yo, right down to the way she walks.

 

My dd is also very disorganized, but it's part of the LD package. It's not enough to tell her what she needs to do to improve. It's a process that has taken and will take years. This year is the first school year that she's beginning to work independently, and it's a breath of fresh air. But I still have to give her much more guidance and support than I gave her older sister in 8th grade.

 

One of my dd's diagnoses is slow processing speed. It takes her forever to get information in and out of long term memory. Because of that, she sometimes looks like she's daydreaming or just doing nothing, but she's thinking.

 

Sometimes, smart kids have undiagnosed LD's because parents and teachers think that smart kids can't or don't have LD's. But the reality is that people can be brilliant and still have LD's.

 

I think we often don't give kids credit for how hard they are trying. That's actually why I took my kids out of ps. My 13 yo was already being penalized in Kindergarten for her personality, learning style, and (at that time, undiagnosed) LD's, and I didn't want to fight the system for 12 more years. I am opposite of my 13 yo in the way I learn and think, and I was sometimes too hard on her because I didn't understand her.

 

ETA: My dd sounds kind of similar to your dd, so I'm throwing out some thoughts for you to consider. I am not assuming that your dd has ADD or LDs; I'm simply putting it out there for your consideration, along with the types of resources that have helped me. I'm sorry you feel slammed and I hope I did not contribute to that.

Edited October 9, 2009 by LizzyBee

[ondreeuh]

Thank you for your gentle and helpful post.

 

I pulled my ds out of PS because he was doing horribly - I have been focusing on "rehabbing" him so to speak.

 

You are right that I need to be careful not to let my dd slip by.

 

I appreciate your kind delivery. It's hard to listen to advice that may be decent if it's delivered harshly.

[missmoe]

Lizzybee,

 

Could you post the titles of some of those books you mentioned?

[krystal70]

My 3rd grader has ADHD (strongly impulsive) and I'm so used to his symptoms :willy_nilly: I don't have experience with inattentive ADD

 

:lol: Not to make light of your situation BUT we had the exact opposite problem in our house! Ty is ADHD/Inattentive and we were so used to his symptoms that we missed our other boys ADHD/Impulsive subtype! LOL We just kept thinking that we he was full of piss and vinager!! His symptoms were like a foreign language for us!! Boy did we feel stupid when the doc pointed it out.:001_huh: :lol: DUH...that explains the climbing on the roof, the running off, climbing over the fences, and other daredevil antics..(this all before age 5!!)

[Julie in MN]

It's hard to see a situation clearly when you're in the middle of it. It's clear to most of the people who have responded that your daughter still needs supervision and support. I speak as someone who expected too much of my older child without giving him enough support. I *thought* I was managing my time in the best way I could, but I can see clearly now that I wasn't giving this child what he needed. He has gaps in his education that I could have prevented if I'd paid more attention to what he was trying to tell me and listened to advice from well-meaning outsiders. I will have to live the rest of my life with regrets concerning this child.

 

Most of the parents I know who have children of various ages focus on their older ones until they graduate. I could never figure out why they would let their younger children go almost neglected, riding around in the back of the van, in favor of their older children. But over the years I've seen those older children graduate and be successful, and now the younger children are getting their turn. The parents actually have more to offer them because they're more experienced -- and have more time on their hands overall. It all evens out.

 

So I gently suggest you give some of the attention you're giving to your middle child to your oldest one, at least for this year while she's at home. She'll only be homeschooling this year. You will save her untold embarrassment and frustration if you help her in every possible way -- no matter how much time it takes -- to master her schoolwork. Her schoolwork should take precedence before her "fun times," before her brother's schoolwork, and almost everything else. Stacy is right; if you haven't done every last thing you can possibly do to keep her from failing, you have failed her.

 

Beautifully put.

[ondreeuh]

Update:

 

DD was at the table doing her math by 8:15. She worked for an hour (1 problem left) then got ready for class. I kept my 3rd grader busy doing his math in the kitchen while the poor toddler watched "educational" TV.

 

I had to take my 3rd grader to a dentist appt. and in the time I was gone, she fed herself lunch and then parked herself at the kitchen table and timed how long it took her to do her subjects. She read/outlined 3 chapters for history (30 min) and read 2 chapters in Tom Sawyer (20 min). She is now going to write the answers to her comprehension questions for T.S. and start the video for Algebra (she was finishing up yesterday's work this morning). After band she will just have to finish the algebra video and do grammar & logic with me (20 min).

 

This shows me that it's a motivation and/or focus issue, and not that the curriculum is too hard or too much. It also shows me that she doesn't NEED me to hound her if she is self-motivated and can concentrate.

 

I talked to her doctor, and he gave me a questionnaire to fill out as her teacher about s/s of ADD. Once I do that he will see her in the office.

[tdeveson]

Not with a wireless router ;) I just need to figure out how to get it to not automatically connect.

 

Pull the electric plug. Disconnect the router's power supply from the wall plug and every computer in your hose will lose internet access. Takes three seconds to turn off and three seconds to turn back on again.

[tdeveson]

The schedule I posted accounts for transition times. The band class, for example, is only 45 min. but I have budgeted out 1.5 hours because it takes time to get the car packed, shoes on etc., get there 10 min. early, and then get home and back in the groove. But while it can be seen as disruptive, I think it also breaks up the day in a way that she needs.

 

The schedule may be what it is, but it's not working for you. That is very clear. A typical child would have trouble with such a choppy schedule. A child with ADD would find it impossible to segue from one activity to the next to the next with any kind of focus.

[tdeveson]

You know, if your daughter fails this year at homeschooling, this is your failure as well.

 

I would have to agree, except that I think the failure would be yours entirely, not "as well." *You* are the teacher. You have to take control. It appears to me that you have set up a system to "fix" the problem that does not work, and you want to place the blame on your daughter for not making it work.

 

I think a more sensible solution would be to get professional counseling to help you set up a system that will help her do her best.

[Seraphina71]

Well done! It sounds like you're on your way to your goals.

 

Michelle

 

 

 

Update:

 

DD was at the table doing her math by 8:15. She worked for an hour (1 problem left) then got ready for class. I kept my 3rd grader busy doing his math in the kitchen while the poor toddler watched "educational" TV.

 

I had to take my 3rd grader to a dentist appt. and in the time I was gone, she fed herself lunch and then parked herself at the kitchen table and timed how long it took her to do her subjects. She read/outlined 3 chapters for history (30 min) and read 2 chapters in Tom Sawyer (20 min). She is now going to write the answers to her comprehension questions for T.S. and start the video for Algebra (she was finishing up yesterday's work this morning). After band she will just have to finish the algebra video and do grammar & logic with me (20 min).

 

This shows me that it's a motivation and/or focus issue, and not that the curriculum is too hard or too much. It also shows me that she doesn't NEED me to hound her if she is self-motivated and can concentrate.

 

I talked to her doctor, and he gave me a questionnaire to fill out as her teacher about s/s of ADD. Once I do that he will see her in the office.

[ondreeuh]

I don't think I will *ever* ask for advice on this forum again.

[ondreeuh]

I am reminded why I rarely ask for advice. I got some good advice but wading through the hateful stuff was not at all worth it.

[Seraphina71]

Yeah, I'm kind of surprised and disappointed by some of the nastiness thrown at you. I honestly cannot see what you did to inspire such rudeness. Failure? Really? Do you all honestly think it's okay for you to repeatedly insult a woman you do not know in this manner? tdeveson, is there a reason you think you're in a position to recommend counseling to this woman or to assume that her child has ADD? Have you bothered to read her posts? I was really excited about becoming a member of this community. Now I'm just hoping that everyone is not as judgemental, rude, and thoroughly convinced of their own superiority as some of you seem to be.