Spilling my Guts - its tough to watch your kids struggle

[Evergreen State Sue]

I suppose with a title like that I might get quite a lot of read onlys from people on this thread. That's not my intention. I'd love some hugs, "I've been there", "I'm going through it", and kind advice I guess. It's hard to watch our kids struggle, and it is even harder to spill your guts to people you don't even know when there doesn't seem to be anyone in real life that understands.

 

Our ds is 13, almost 14, and age wise would be in 8th grade. Since he was 3 we have been going to one doctor, specialist, or psychologist after another to discover he first has ADHD, then dyslexia, then tourettes, then some kind of social anxiety, and then an issue with executive functioning and short term memory.

 

We have homeschooled from the beginning, he was tutored for dyslexia for 5 years, and have added some easy co-op science classes that require little to no homework. He attends Boy Scouts and Awana.

 

He hates school and all that is required of him to learn. It is a constant struggle to get him to do what he needs to do.

 

To address the executive functioning issue and to help him get more out of what he needs to learn, I enrolled him in a Study Skills class. This is week 2 and I can see this is an excellent class, but he will struggle. He will have to learn things that some kids by now already know about writing, taking notes, reading a text book, preparing for tests, etc.

 

The first class was about listening in class and he had to take lecture notes in class. The homework was to read through the first chapter of the book, read an article about how to take lecture notes, and write 2 paragraphs about how well he took notes compared to the article. That was tough. To get him through it, my dh and I read the material out loud to him, I pulled the important information out of the article with him, and stepped him through points he could write about. When it came right down to it, I wrote about 75% of his assignment, though he reviewed and changed some words. I had to type it for him too as typing homework is required and his skills are not there yet.

 

Today in class he did very little that he learned the first week and that we talked about more than once. He didn't sit close to the front or in the T zone with the teacher, he didn't open his book and follow along with the teacher, and he didn't take any notes while the teacher was reviewing the last class and the homework.

 

Then, there was an in class assignment for him to summarize the first chapter of the book in 5-9 sentences. I don't know what he wrote, but I saw he was struggling, looking around, and finally looking in the book, more than likely copying sentences down. He was the last one to turn in his paper, while the others were getting the next instruction. He said he didn't finish.

 

He has never written a paragraph before in a pressure situation like that. He didn't even put his name, date, and other heading information he had been instructed to do before he started writing. That was the only help I gave him in class - to put heading information on his paper, though he didn't do it correctly because he hadn't allowed room for it.

 

I want to keep him in this class because it is good information that if he has the desire to learn he can use. However, I don't know how to motivate him to have the desire to learn. I'm at a loss what to do and I'm not sure if making him struggle through this class is the right thing.

 

Thanks for reading this far. If you are so inclined, I would appreciate prayers for this situation.

 

God bless. Sue

[cin]

I agree. It IS difficult to watch your child struggle. My oldest dd is suffereing emotionally, and it breaks my heart. What do you say when your child says she doesn't know why she is sad all the time, and why she feels she has to make it worse. Yup, it's HARD to watch your child suffer.

 

:grouphug:

[chiguirre]

:grouphug:

 

Sorry, my struggler is only 8yo, so I don't know what I'd do in that situation. I hope you get better answers.

[Quiver0f10]

:grouphug: I underdstand! My 10 yo is dyslexic, ADHD, seizure disorder as well as short/long term memory issues. It is so hard to watch him struggle!

[JaneyL]

:grouphug:

I'm sorry. It sounds like a hard struggle and that he is just totally overwhelmed in the class. Will pray for wisdom for you.

[Sasharowan]

:grouphug:

[WTMCassandra]

(((Sue)))

 

I am so sorry. It must be so hard to be dealing with that all the time. My DD has some mild ADD/sensory issues, but it's nowhere near the scope of what you're dealing with.

 

Is the class supposed to be jr. high level? High school level? College?

 

Honestly, it sounds too hard for him. Have you considered reading a book at home together about study skills before putting him in a class? There are lots of study skill books out there, and perhaps he could tolerate the information better if it was at a slower, adjustable pace.

 

When my stubborn son starts complaining about school, I remind him of his career aspirations (astronaut). What moves your son? What inspires him? What interests him outside of academics? What are his goals for the future? I would talk about them and how school is a way to get there.

 

And, surely he has strengths outside the classroom. Could you focus on affirming him and complimenting him in those areas? This might help balance out the "failure" feeling in schoolwork. You could talk about how some people find academics easier than others, but everyone needs to work to become at least competent in academics to be able to follow their dreams.

 

Could you read biographies together about people who had trouble in school but succeeded in life? There are many fields where non-academic people thrive. Some of them are the trades. Hey, plumbers make EXCELLENT money! Could you find him an apprenticeship somewhere working with his hands to give him a different venue to succeed in?

 

Those are just some ideas. If you've already tried them, I apologize. My intention is not to trot out old solutions that didn't work before and make you talk about them ; ).

[Evergreen State Sue]

What do you say when your child says she doesn't know why she is sad all the time, and why she feels she has to make it worse. Yup, it's HARD to watch your child suffer.

 

:grouphug:

 

I guess you just say I love you, give her a hug, and just be there. Hugs back at you, Mom. Thanks.

[Evergreen State Sue]

Thanks for all the hugs, prayers and kind suggestions.

 

To answer a few questions . . .

 

This class is for 13-18 yr. olds. I thought about delaying the class, but I think he needs it to be successful in the higher grades. Technically he enters high school next year (9th grade.) I wish I had this class back then.

 

We always thought he would be a good engineer as he loves building things with his legos. However, he hates math. I don't think he will be able to handle college. Unfortunately he doesn't like physical labor either.

 

His passion is video games. Grrr. Wish I hadn't brought them into the house. I use them as an incentive to get his work done, but I think they are too addicting and that incentive has backfired. He focuses way too much on them.

 

Thank you again . . . and hugs back at all of you moms who are struggling with your kids.

[tex-mex]

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

Hang in there!

 

Have you considered doing an career aptitude test? Based on the results, you may get a better idea of where his interests can go into the real world. Use that info and plan field trips, one on one talks with those in specialized fields, consider an apprenticeship, etc. If it triggers some interest, that would be some help?

 

My son has Aspergers, ADHD (hypoactive/inattentive), OCD/anxiety, working memory issues, mild dysgraphia, and so on. I can understand! As for the study skills class... is there any way the teacher can accomodate the workload and reduce it? That would be reasonable. Allowing oral replies to questions or assignments. Having a scribe help write down his thoughts. Give him keyboarding drills. He won't like it. But in the real world, it will help. Just some thoughts. HTH

Edited September 24, 2009 by tex-mex

[happygrrl]

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

 

This sounds like my ds.... Many hugs to you! Hang in there!

[JennW in SoCal]

First of all, YES! I've been there, done that, have cried, banged my head against the wall and worried to no end that my ds would never be able to make it through high school. ADHD/Aspergers/executive function and working memory issues, OCD -- which diagnosis is the correct one doesn't matter. He struggled with traditional school. Still does. But he graduated, is in community college and is a valued employee and an in demand lighting designer for community theater productions.

 

13 and 14 are the worst years, by far. It might be better to work on study skills after your poor ds finishes going through puberty as that alone is probably making his life tough. It's exhausting mentally, emotionally and physically. Most neuro-typical kids shut down in the middle school years, for kids like ours that struggle it is even more pronounced. There is a magical transformation around 15 -- the brain has matured, hormones are no longer wreaking havoc, and suddenly school is easier -- not easy but somehow the struggles can be more easily managed.

 

If your ds has an outside interest, if there is a service project in Boy Scouts where he shines, allow him to spend as much time as he wants on it. My ds started volunteering at church when he was 13 and became a very trusted and well liked member of the church tech team and VBS team. The adults there only saw the positives in him which greatly helped his self esteem and helped ME to see him in a new light. I saw success and possibilities of him eventually having a successful adult life.

 

Don't feel obligated to do every academic course using only traditional text books, exams and papers. There are some courses that will need that, and yes note taking in a lecture is important. But with a paper trail documenting the history of his learning challenges a college will provide tutors, tape recorders to use in class, or hire a note taker for your ds. They will provide quiet rooms for exams, perhaps extra time to take exams. When your son is in the high school years you can really start working with him to figure out what kind of assistance makes traditional school easier for him -- he can discover how to best focus on the content rather than struggling to focus and worrying over how to take notes.

 

Let your son tackle history or literature in the context of his interests. Make it project based -- of course you still work on essays and research papers, but also let him be creative with videos or photographs or whatever other kind of media appeals to him. Get an outside tutor for the thing he most struggles with. For my ds it was math. Just working with someone other than mom is the magic trick to get through a course.

 

You are in a really tough place right now, but it will get better. It will still be a struggle, but if you focus on the positive aspects of your son, help him find his talents, he can make it through high school and into college. Really. College can be a very flexible place. There are on-line courses, hybrid courses where you only meet once a week. Independent study courses and hands on courses.

[jensway]

Sue, first off hugs to you. :grouphug: I have been there and am still in something similar with my ds. He has AS and lacks coordination and muscle tone/strength.

 

Just 8 weeks ago I put him in a mixed martial arts class. We go Mon-Thurs. 45 min. class. For the first 3-4 weeks it was extremely hard watching him try to do the things in class. He was becoming frustrated. A couple of times a week I would come home go to my room and be on my knees. I was questioning whether this was the right thing to do.

 

Then I was reminded of this passage "But as for you, be strong and do not give up, for your work will be rewarded." So for the next 2 weeks we prayed on that. We stuck his class out. Now things are better.

 

I can't tell you things are perfect, but each new week is a little better than the one before. So stay strong for a little while and encourage him not to give up and see if his and your rewards come in time.

Edited September 25, 2009 by jensway
typing error

[Sonshine]

I would continue to pursue him learning these skills. From my experience with one son with some of these issues, but perhaps not as profound, the attitude may not change for a long time, perhaps sometime after high school graduation. He needs the study skills and waiting for him to realize that and for him to be self motivated may not happen in time to affect his life under your roof. Could you use this teacher as a tutor or hire an ADHD coach? Also, things that you can measure and he can do, such as sitting in the front of the class, you may want to make mandatory or there is a consequence. Yes, he has genuine issues, but he needs to do what he is able to do. He may need outside motivation for that to occur. It won't be loing before you have no legal control over him - do what you can now to make his future life better.

[chiguirre]

This class is for 13-18 yr. olds. I thought about delaying the class, but I think he needs it to be successful in the higher grades. Technically he enters high school next year (9th grade.) I wish I had this class back then.

 

I do think that it's a good idea to make sure your sn child is on the upper end of the age/grade range for outside classes. It makes them so much easier to handle and they will get more out of them. Ds is the oldest kid in Kindermusik and cub scouts and this has worked out well for him. He can be more independent and blend in with his peers better.

[TravelingChris]

I can't say that we have the same problems here though I do worry about my dd with memory issues.

 

I do want to say that I am a teacher at a co-op. I have a few students who I wonder what is the problem. I haven't been told anything about them by their parents nor have they told me anything. IF someone was to tell me that student x has problems with taking notes, or student y can;t do something, I would try to accomodate. Right now, I am thinking how I will address the issue in an email to the students. My goal for them is to learn just as I bet is the goal of your son's teacher. I try to do this by instituting various assignments. My assignments haven't been writing papers but they do involve writing and research. I checked the students knowledge of the subject I was teaching but I did assume that students at my level (high schoolers plus two advanced eighth graders) would know how to do searches, would know how to find articles, etc. I am finding that at least two of them either don't or didn't do the assignments for some other reasons. COntact your son's teacher and explain the situation. Maybe she can suggest something or you might find her uncooperative. Whatever it is, you need to figure out.

[tonygirl]

I suppose with a title like that I might get quite a lot of read onlys from people on this thread. That's not my intention. I'd love some hugs, "I've been there", "I'm going through it", and kind advice I guess. It's hard to watch our kids struggle, and it is even harder to spill your guts to people you don't even know when there doesn't seem to be anyone in real life that understands.

 

Our ds is 13, almost 14, and age wise would be in 8th grade. Since he was 3 we have been going to one doctor, specialist, or psychologist after another to discover he first has ADHD, then dyslexia, then tourettes, then some kind of social anxiety, and then an issue with executive functioning and short term memory.

 

We have homeschooled from the beginning, he was tutored for dyslexia for 5 years, and have added some easy co-op science classes that require little to no homework. He attends Boy Scouts and Awana.

 

He hates school and all that is required of him to learn. It is a constant struggle to get him to do what he needs to do.

 

To address the executive functioning issue and to help him get more out of what he needs to learn, I enrolled him in a Study Skills class. This is week 2 and I can see this is an excellent class, but he will struggle. He will have to learn things that some kids by now already know about writing, taking notes, reading a text book, preparing for tests, etc.

 

The first class was about listening in class and he had to take lecture notes in class. The homework was to read through the first chapter of the book, read an article about how to take lecture notes, and write 2 paragraphs about how well he took notes compared to the article. That was tough. To get him through it, my dh and I read the material out loud to him, I pulled the important information out of the article with him, and stepped him through points he could write about. When it came right down to it, I wrote about 75% of his assignment, though he reviewed and changed some words. I had to type it for him too as typing homework is required and his skills are not there yet.

 

Today in class he did very little that he learned the first week and that we talked about more than once. He didn't sit close to the front or in the T zone with the teacher, he didn't open his book and follow along with the teacher, and he didn't take any notes while the teacher was reviewing the last class and the homework.

 

Then, there was an in class assignment for him to summarize the first chapter of the book in 5-9 sentences. I don't know what he wrote, but I saw he was struggling, looking around, and finally looking in the book, more than likely copying sentences down. He was the last one to turn in his paper, while the others were getting the next instruction. He said he didn't finish.

 

He has never written a paragraph before in a pressure situation like that. He didn't even put his name, date, and other heading information he had been instructed to do before he started writing. That was the only help I gave him in class - to put heading information on his paper, though he didn't do it correctly because he hadn't allowed room for it.

 

I want to keep him in this class because it is good information that if he has the desire to learn he can use. However, I don't know how to motivate him to have the desire to learn. I'm at a loss what to do and I'm not sure if making him struggle through this class is the right thing.

 

Thanks for reading this far. If you are so inclined, I would appreciate prayers for this situation.

 

God bless. Sue

 

Well heres your I ve been there and I am still there.

 

Here is how I understand executive functioning disorders

 

You have a football team

You have a coach

 

The coaches job is to organize all the plays (info) for the team and then give step by step directions on how to execute those plays.(apply that info)

 

The team relys on the coach to do his job the team Can Not function if the coach doesn't do his job.

 

The football team's job is to execute the plays the coach organizes and gives directions for. the team relys the coach.

 

Here's where the problem is

 

You have a Coach that doesn't coach correctly or at all for whatever reason.

 

So here's your team all ready play to (learn) with the ability to do so

But they don't have a coach to organize the info and give them the direction they need to apply the info they have learned.

 

If ya ever need to vent for whatever reason pm me. I will listen and if I can try and help. god bless you Teresa

[Evergreen State Sue]

I want to thank you all again for the love and support you have shown me. I read all the messages to my dh through tears and he too was blown away with your responses. I am so blessed to be able to connect with this special community of on-line friends.

 

May God lift each of you moms up and give you the wisdom you need to guide and nurture your special kids.

[Laurie4b]

I suppose with a title like that I might get quite a lot of read onlys from people on this thread. That's not my intention. I'd love some hugs, "I've been there", "I'm going through it", and kind advice I guess. It's hard to watch our kids struggle, and it is even harder to spill your guts to people you don't even know when there doesn't seem to be anyone in real life that understands.

 

Our ds is 13, almost 14, and age wise would be in 8th grade. Since he was 3 we have been going to one doctor, specialist, or psychologist after another to discover he first has ADHD, then dyslexia, then tourettes, then some kind of social anxiety, and then an issue with executive functioning and short term memory.

 

We have homeschooled from the beginning, he was tutored for dyslexia for 5 years, and have added some easy co-op science classes that require little to no homework. He attends Boy Scouts and Awana.

 

He hates school and all that is required of him to learn. It is a constant struggle to get him to do what he needs to do.

 

To address the executive functioning issue and to help him get more out of what he needs to learn, I enrolled him in a Study Skills class. This is week 2 and I can see this is an excellent class, but he will struggle. He will have to learn things that some kids by now already know about writing, taking notes, reading a text book, preparing for tests, etc.

 

The first class was about listening in class and he had to take lecture notes in class. The homework was to read through the first chapter of the book, read an article about how to take lecture notes, and write 2 paragraphs about how well he took notes compared to the article. That was tough. To get him through it, my dh and I read the material out loud to him, I pulled the important information out of the article with him, and stepped him through points he could write about. When it came right down to it, I wrote about 75% of his assignment, though he reviewed and changed some words. I had to type it for him too as typing homework is required and his skills are not there yet.

 

Today in class he did very little that he learned the first week and that we talked about more than once. He didn't sit close to the front or in the T zone with the teacher, he didn't open his book and follow along with the teacher, and he didn't take any notes while the teacher was reviewing the last class and the homework.

 

Then, there was an in class assignment for him to summarize the first chapter of the book in 5-9 sentences. I don't know what he wrote, but I saw he was struggling, looking around, and finally looking in the book, more than likely copying sentences down. He was the last one to turn in his paper, while the others were getting the next instruction. He said he didn't finish.

 

He has never written a paragraph before in a pressure situation like that. He didn't even put his name, date, and other heading information he had been instructed to do before he started writing. That was the only help I gave him in class - to put heading information on his paper, though he didn't do it correctly because he hadn't allowed room for it.

 

I want to keep him in this class because it is good information that if he has the desire to learn he can use. However, I don't know how to motivate him to have the desire to learn. I'm at a loss what to do and I'm not sure if making him struggle through this class is the right thing.

 

Thanks for reading this far. If you are so inclined, I would appreciate prayers for this situation.

 

God bless. Sue

 

Does the teacher know about his particular struggles?

 

It sounds as if this needs to be broken down into even smaller steps for him to be successful, or that he needs extra cues from her or more external support (maybe rewards that you could provide?)

[Jill]

th grade.)We always thought he would be a good engineer s he loves building things with his legos. However, he hates math. I don't think he will be able to handle college. Unfortunately he doesn't like physical labor either.

His passion is video games. Grrr. Wish I hadn't brought them into the house. I use them as an incentive to get his work done, but I think they are too addicting and that incentive has backfired. He focuses way too much on them.

Which video games? on what platform? We limit certain games during the schoolweek, the ones that seem to "spin-up" our son's brain. We speak very frankly with him about the effects playing them has. We don't have any first person shooters in our house though, nor any Grand Theft Auto type things. The curfew for the schoolweek starts on Sunday afternoon, giving him a chance to wind down. He may play some of the intense games starting Friday afterschool. Intense for him at his age is "Age of Mythology" on the PC. We do allow some playing of games we deem educational during the schoolweek, after the day's schoolwork is done of course (which may include SOTW acticity games itself!). Those are Sid Meiers' Civilization and Colonization, historical scenarios in "Age of Empires." He has learned and retained quite a lot from those games. and if he asks me to play Monopoly, or Magic, or Stratego (he beats me...), I try to drop the mop right there and play because it often gives us a chance to rebond, esp if it's been a difficult day.

If there is any help in it for you, a ny school has started a 6th grade class based on games:

http://www.popsci.com/scitech/article/2009-09/first-public-school-based-games-set-nyc-debut

the schools site:

http://q2l.org/

Some the pdfs from them are helpful too, check out "Spartan Spy" under "Curriculum" as an example.

Since he has the engineering brain and game brain, perhaps he would benefit from Scratch from MIT or Alice from Carnegie Mellon?

http://info.scratch.mit.edu/About_Scratch

http://www.alice.org/

I recommend reading the "Learning with Scratch" pdf, it's at the bottom of the link I gave, the other pdfs too.

There's a book called "The Game Maker's Apprentice" that should be accessible to a 13 yr old. The book includes the Game Maker software.

http://www.amazon.com/Game-Makers-Apprentice-Development-Technology/dp/1590596153/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1254059509&sr=8-1

 

So I just offer this up as my thoughts when I read your story...

As for that class, maybe he'll have to take it a second time next year or two for it to really soak in. I have done that personally with very difficult material for me - just do it a second time.

[DianeJM]

Hi Sue,

Here's a hug (((((Sue)))))!

I have a dd who's been struggling her whole school career. At this point she feels horrible about herself, and actually I feel horrible too, because I haven't been able to help her very much! All these years, and not much has changed; almost everything I've tried hasn't worked out. Imagine -- she's 16 now, and there are so many holes in her education I shudder to think how she can function. She's been tested and we kind of know which direction to go in, but all this has taken tons of time.

 

The only thing that has been any academic help to her is a very expensive private tutor. One on one with someone who is not mom has worked wonders for her. She needs constant hand holding and reminders; I just can't do it; I've done it and it hasn't been effective. We are now looking at the ps to put her into a program they have that is geared toward her needs; it's a language based program (I'm not even sure exactly what a language based program is, but her testing has clearly shown that's what she needs). Also, counseling is necessary so that she doesn't continue thinking she's stupid and she can learn to cope with everything going on.

 

Have they been changing your son's diagnosis all along, or do they attribute all of the things you listed to him, adding new diagnoses over time?

 

I have come to the opinion that I must do everything possible to get my child over this hurdle and functioning adequately, and for me that includes a lot of outside help. When you are in the middle of it, it's SOOOO confusing. But step back a bit, look everything over. Try to come up with a logical sequence of the types of help he needs. If you can't do that, get someone to help you do it. Then you can start making steps toward remediation. This thing might be bigger than you are; I know that is definitely the case with me! So first, put your own oxygen mask on, then you can help your child. Not easy by any means! But God's blessings to you as you work on it!!

[WTMCassandra]

Sue, how is this situation going? What did you decide to do?

[Evergreen State Sue]

Thanks so much for asking, WTMCassandra. Here is an update for you and others who have so graciously given of your time to give me encouragement and offer advice.

 

Today was the next Study Skills class since my last post. I continued to guide him through this week's homework which included answering review questions about Chapter 1 on listening and an assignment requiring us to watch a documentary, take notes, and write a summary with someone else. I was his partner. It was tough, but we got it done.

 

Here is the good part. . . the teacher gave back papers today. The first homework assignment where I did about 75% of his work, he got a 20/20. I expected that. The in-class assignment where he had to write a 5-9 sentence summary of the first chapter of the book, he got a 10/10 and a Good! He only wrote 4 sentences, there were some misspellings, and his heading wasn't aligned to the left like she wanted it, but the basic content was there! Let me tell you I praised him for that paper because he really did it on his own and it showed he could do it. I had him show it to his dad. Dh told him to thank me, but I told him no, that he did that one on his own!

 

I was going to talk to the teacher about his issues, but as it turned out in the 24 hours before his class our printer died and we had to spend time getting a new one. She requires homework typed and I thought I was going to have to tell her ds couldn't get the assignment done and didn't want to add on the other LD issues as well. I'm glad I waited to see how she graded his papers. I still may talk to her, but may wait a little longer. Next week is his first quiz in the class.

 

So, I've decided to keep him in this class and work with him as his coach. I'm using this class as the one that is most important this year, so other things like history may slide if we don't get to them. I just see this class as one that will help him in other classes. I'll keep monitoring how he is doing, but for now, today, I think the grades on his papers gave him a boost of confidence. Dh and I even heard ds say he needed to do some studying in his Awana as he left the dinner table. Something we have never heard him voluntarily say.

 

It will still be hard to see him struggle. I have a feeling parenting him will continue to be with peaks and valleys. I like the view from the peak better!

 

Jill . . . thank you for the gaming info. His birthday is coming up. I think he would like something like that. It would also feel like we are entering his world and not always try to drag him kicking and screeming into ours.

 

Diane . . . the diagnoses have been added over time. I think having this outside class teaches him to learn from someone else and shows him other kids have to learn too. Our special needs kids need coaches. Sometimes that is us, sometimes it works better if it is someone else. In either case, the kid needs to want the help and see the benefit. I'm glad your dd is responsive to outside help. You sound like a great mom doing what you need to do to help her.

[DianeJM]

Sue, it's great to hear this encouraging news, and thank you for your encouragement to me. I agree that study skills are an over-arching important skill to have, so it's great you are coaching him through it. That's what we are as moms. I pray that this would be one of those really pivotal things in his life that he can look back on and feel good about having worked through. Some of the greatest feelings of accomplishment (not to mention great learning experiences) can come from persevering through a difficult situation. It's just hard when their whole school experience has to be such an upward climb due to their learning issues. God is faithful to bring the occasional success in there to keep us motivated.

Blessings on you all as you continue persevering!

[Evergreen State Sue]

God is faithful to bring the occasional success in there to keep us motivated.

 

 

Amen! :Angel_anim: