"Sacred"?

[MamaSheep]

A previous discussion on this board sparked a question in my mind. It's completely tangential to that discussion so I'm not going to bother referencing it, just going to go ahead and ask my question. Although it is potentially a sensitive topic, it is my very sincere hope that my question will not offend anyone, and I would also hope that those who respond will do so with great sensitivity to the beliefs and feelings of others here. I have no wish to debate right or wrong here, I'm just wondering what other people from other backgrounds think about this. I am interested in hearing from persons of all points of view (so long as those points of view are expressed courteously and with as much tact as we all can manage, please). And it would be very helpful to me if you could tell me what background/culture/faith(s) informs your beliefs.

 

It's a multi-part question:

 

What does "sacred" mean to you?

What is sacred to you?

Do you behave differently toward that which is sacred to you than you do toward that which is not? If so, why, and in what ways? If not, why not?

 

Thank you in advance for sharing your thoughts. :)

[newlifemom]

I honestly don't know. I have never thought it before. I guess I consider the Bible as sacred. Not necessarily the particular one on my coffee table right now, but the word of God in general. Does that make any sense? In terms of behaving differently, well I definately think of the Bible as more important than any other book [although I have been known to put WTM right up there :tongue_smilie:] I take the contents seriously. However I write in my Bible and I know that for some that would be wrong. I make notes or underline things I want to remember. So I am not sure if I am thinking in the same vein as you are.

 

As for my background, I am a Christian who recently joined the Dark Side and am attending a Reformed church. I have been a Christian for 20+ years but was raised by parents who wanted me to choose my own religion and thus offered me none.

 

I have no idea if I have answered your question or not.

[WTMCassandra]

Sacred means holy to me.

 

I believe the Christian Scriptures are sacred, as well as inspired. I believe all that is written there--the figurative parts as figurative, and the literal parts as literal. (Many, many people have differing ideas about this, and I recognize that.)

[KidsHappen]

These are excellent questions. I don't have any answers but they are excellent questions. I will have to think on them a bit but I'm sure there will be plenty of stimulating conversation while I do.

[Rosie_0801]

Sacred is a word I apply to things that ought not be tampered with, I guess. It's not really a word that features frequently in my vocabulary. I'm too practical and it's not really a practical sounding word.

What is sacred to me? Books. One ought not wreck books or throw them in the rubbish unless they are really, really, really trashy and should never have been written; and they belong to you of course. It's not manners to turf other people's books. Genetic material is sacred and should not be patented. I object to wind pollinated GM crops and consider the inevitable contamination to be agricultural terrorism. Other people's religions are sacred. Probably more sacred than mine, since I'm the only one of me so it's ok if I tamper with it.

I'm not sure I know how to answer your third question. I pay more attention to/ spend more thought and action on stuff that is important to me than I do stuff that isn't. Maybe as I read other people's answers I'll find another way to think about the question.

 

Where I'm coming from:

I'm a Western Taoist, non deitied, season based Pagan who cares about people in general and thinks books and food are the right and true paths to happiness.

 

Don't know what sort of use my answer was, but there it is :)

 

Rosie

[WTMCassandra]

cares about people in general and thinks books and food are the right and true paths to happiness.

 

 

:lol: I love this part! We are very different, but I completely agree about these things!

[KidsHappen]

Sacred is a word I apply to things that ought not be tampered with, I guess. It's not really a word that features frequently in my vocabulary. I'm too practical and it's not really a practical sounding word.

What is sacred to me? Books. One ought not wreck books or throw them in the rubbish unless they are really, really, really trashy and should never have been written; and they belong to you of course. It's not manners to turf other people's books. Genetic material is sacred and should not be patented. I object to wind pollinated GM crops and consider the inevitable contamination to be agricultural terrorism. Other people's religions are sacred. Probably more sacred than mine, since I'm the only one of me so it's ok if I tamper with it.

I'm not sure I know how to answer your third question. I pay more attention to/ spend more thought and action on stuff that is important to me than I do stuff that isn't. Maybe as I read other people's answers I'll find another way to think about the question.

 

Where I'm coming from:

I'm a Western Taoist, non deitied, season based Pagan who cares about people in general and thinks books and food are the right and true paths to happiness.

 

Don't know what sort of use my answer was, but there it is :)

 

Rosie

 

You answers are always amusing. I love your thought processes and you always have a great way of wording things. I agree about books, DNA and religion and I think I will throw in the pyramids. I feel very strongly about the pyramids or really any archaeological treasure.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Sacred (as used in the Biblel) means "set apart for God". Since I mentioned the Bible, you can probably gather that I come from a Christian perspective.

 

In the Old Testament, many objects related to the tabernacle or temple were sacred. God used these things to teach people that things that were used in relation to Him were set apart because of His own holiness.

 

In the New Testament we find that Christians themselves are set apart/ sacred. The word "saint" is related to the word "sacred." So, I am set apart for God - not because of any worthiness in myself - but because of what God has done for me.

[Rosie_0801]

I feel very strongly about the pyramids or really any archaeological treasure.

 

:iagree: I feel traumatised every time I read about the Cultural Revolution in China! Don't break pretty things! (Especially when they're not yours.) If you don't want them any more, give them to someone who does!

 

Perhaps people's hopes and dreams are sacred too. I remember being so hurt when dh flicked spaghetti sauce over my grain grinder and didn't bother to wipe it off. I saved for so long to buy that, and pregnancy then small children prevent me using it as much as I'd like. It's as though that particular gadget represents my womanly aspirations. How could the man flick spaghetti sauce on it! Ah well, I guess that's convinced you all I'm completely crackers :D

 

Rosie

Edited September 10, 2009 by Rosie_0801

[Chris in VA]

Rosie, I agree with Kids--you really ARE wonderful.

[WTMCassandra]

Sacred (as used in the Biblel) means "set apart for God". Since I mentioned the Bible, you can probably gather that I come from a Christian perspective.

 

In the Old Testament, many objects related to the tabernacle or temple were sacred. God used these things to teach people that things that were used in relation to Him were set apart because of His own holiness.

 

In the New Testament we find that Christians themselves are set apart/ sacred. The word "saint" is related to the word "sacred." So, I am set apart for God - not because of any worthiness in myself - but because of what God has done for me.

 

:iagree:

[MamaSheep]

Thank you for the interesting responses, I really am finding this intriguing. The fact that so many have never really given it much thought is particularly thought-provoking to me.

 

I didn't want to bias the discussion up front by giving my own answers to the questions in the first post, but it is probably only fair that I do so at some point. I just wanted to see what other people would say first because I really am interested in finding out how this concept of sacredness factors in other people's lives, not in arguing about what (if anything) should or should not be considered sacred. I only asked what you consider sacred so that I could see some tangible examples of how 'sacred' works for you.

 

The concept of sacredness is very much a part of my faith and family culture, and a definite part of my personal life and way of looking at things. But in various conversations over the years it has become apparent that this may not be the case for most people.

 

Ok...so...my perspective.

 

To me, sacred and holy are synonymous. I use them interchangeably. Sacred things are set apart by God, and are sacred because of their relationship with deity. And I would certainly agree with Rosie at least to the extent that sacred things should not be tampered with or treated lightly. People can choose to treat sacred things with respect or contempt, but things are not sacred because of how people choose to view them, they are sacred because of how God views them. In other words, a thing does not become sacred because people think it should be, nor does it cease being sacred because someone is offended by its being viewed in that way. People can dedicate, or set apart, a thing to God, but it is not the actions of the people which makes it sacred, but rather God's acceptance of that dedication or setting apart. Also, God can withdraw that status should He see fit. So to me, sacredness or holiness comes from God, not man. God can make something sacred, man cannot. Hopefully that makes sense even if you don't agree.

 

I would also say that although tangible things can be considered sacred (such as the OT temple and its related equipment that someone mentioned), it is not so much the places or items themselves that are important or sacred, but rather the purpose for which they are used and the relationship they bear to God. It is the relationship that is sacred, not so much the object. But disrespecting the object demonstrates, by extension, disrespect for the purpose it serves and for the God who set it apart for that purpose. I'm not sure I'm explaining it well. It's kind of like explaining that salt is salty...lol.

 

Moving on, then. Things that are sacred to me. There are a lot, actually, so this list will not be comprehensive, just some of the things that come to mind. God's word is sacred to me. Not necessarily the pages it is printed on, though I do try to keep the books clean and off the floor and whatnot in respect for their contents, but what's really sacred is not the book, but the actual words/ideas themselves, whether in writing, in speech, or even just in thought. I am also one to write in the margins of my scriptures and underline things. I understand that other people don't feel that this is respectful, but to me, focused study of God's word is very reverent and respectful and the notations help me focus, remember, and internalize what I have learned, and that intangible, understood, internalized Word is more sacred to me than the page on which it is put into words. I don't write in other people's books, though, and I do respect that other people feel differently than I do about this.

 

Covenants are sacred to me. A covenant, to me, in this context, is a solemn, binding commitment or promise made with God. I have entered into a covenant to be one of God's people, set apart to Him (this is the meaning of "saint" in the NT as someone here mentioned, and is also the meaning of the "saint" in Latter-day Saints at the end of the name of my church; it doesn't mean we think we're better than other people). I have entered into a marriage covenant, which I consider to be a three-party agreement between myself, my husband, and God. I've made other covenants as well. I take all of them very seriously and consider them to be even more binding than a legal secular contract (though I certainly take those very seriously as well). The relationships formed by such covenants are also sacred to me, such as the marital relationship. My relationship with my children, as an extension of the marital covenant, is also sacred to me. (I also very much consider my children to be direct blessings to us from God, which reinforces the sanctity of the parent/child relationship.)

 

Certain activities which I usually refer to as ordinances, but which could also be called sacraments, or religious rites or ceremonies, are also sacred to me because I believe they are instituted by God, and because they form, formalize, or strengthen certain kinds of relationships between people and God. Again, the marriage ceremony, during which the marriage covenant is made, is an example.

 

There are places that are sacred to me, as they are set apart by God for particular purposes. Meetinghouses and temples fall into this category, as does the home.

 

There are some "duties" I consider to have been given to me by God, and those I hold to be sacred as well. Being a good mother to the children God gave me falls into that category, and so do things like being honest and kind to others.

 

I also consider life, in general, sacred as a gift from God, and human life particularly sacred, since I believe human spirits are literally God's offspring. (Yes I know not many share this opinion.)

 

Anyway, those are some things that come to mind. Not an exhaustive list, but some examples.

 

I do modify my behavior in regard to sacred things as compared to non-sacred things. Certainly unimportant, or less important, things can be very distracting and time consuming, and my ideals exceed my abilities, but I do try to give priority to the sacred in my life. I try hard to spend time learning from God's Word, strengthening my marriage, and nurturing my relationship with my children. My dress and behavior are different when I am in a space I consider sacred, such as a meetinghouse chapel and to an even greater extent, a temple. For example, I try to dress in clean, modest clothing that is a bit more formal than I use for general, everyday life, and I moderate the volume of my voice. I also will often avoid discussing things that are sacred in settings where I know they will be held up to scorn and mockery, though I am always eager to discuss them with people I trust to treat them with respect.

 

I would also say that although things that I consider sacred are very precious to me, there are also other things I consider precious even though I do not consider them sacred. And at that level I'm definitely in favor of preserving ancient artifacts and art works. (The Cultural Revolution in China and the Iconoclasm in Europe both make me cringe. Not to mention some of the things that were bombed in the world wars...gah!)

[newlifemom]

Wow Amy! It is obvious you have given this a lot of thought. Some of the things you mentioned I do more subconciously already. As for the rest, like I said earlier. I haven't given it much thought. You certainly have given me quite a bit to chew on. Thanks.

[MamaSheep]

Wow Amy! It is obvious you have given this a lot of thought. Some of the things you mentioned I do more subconciously already. As for the rest, like I said earlier. I haven't given it much thought. You certainly have given me quite a bit to chew on. Thanks.

 

Well, as I say, I've been pondering about this lately in context of some things that were said in another thread here. And it also made me wonder what other people's take on it is since it was an inter-faith type discussion that brought it to mind.

 

I'm curious (if you're willing to share) what things I mentioned do you do subconsiously? Is it something you subconsciously do out of a sense of reverence for that which is sacred, or just out of habit or social expectation or something?

[Guest janainaz]

To me, only something that can't be destroyed is sacred. If my house were to burn down, the only thing I would truly find sacred is my family.

[Nakia]

Rosie, I agree with Kids--you really ARE wonderful.

 

:iagree:

 

Can we just go ahead and have a "We love Rosie!" thread?!?!

 

Seriously, though, I so appreciate the thoughtful responses so far. What a great thread!! This is a wonderful bunch of people!

[Impish]

Along with the aforementioned Bible and Biblical meanings, to me when something is sacred, its a hill to die on.

 

Accepting Christ as my Saviour, and my vow to live a more Christian existence, especially when it comes to my marriage and parenting, are sacred.

 

My marriage vows are sacred.

 

My commitment to parenting my children, including homeschooling them, is sacred.

 

I would fight for both of those until I was unable to continue to do so.

 

The rest of the world may turn, but those things are hills to die on for me.

[newlifemom]

Well, as I say, I've been pondering about this lately in context of some things that were said in another thread here. And it also made me wonder what other people's take on it is since it was an inter-faith type discussion that brought it to mind.

 

I'm curious (if you're willing to share) what things I mentioned do you do subconsiously? Is it something you subconsciously do out of a sense of reverence for that which is sacred, or just out of habit or social expectation or something?

 

 

Ouch! :D You are really cutting deep here. I guess it probably is more out of habit/social expectations. :blush: I tend to be quieter in sanctuaries etc., dress nicer. That kind of thing. They ingrained in me, but now I honestly couldn't tell you if it was because it was sacred.

 

However, I will go out on a limb and give an example that has occurred to me since this thread started. I have been really delving into the Word of God lately and am having a little mini-revival. (just me, KWIM?) This past week, whenever talk has turned to the things of G*d, I have had a sense of sacredness. Almost 'holy ground' moments if you will. I don't know if that counts. I think for me it would.

 

Now, please don't push me any farther, I have a lot of things to do this weekend. I cannot spend it contemplating these extremely interesting, but time consuming matters. :D

 

Thanks for the food though.

[MamaSheep]

Ouch! :D You are really cutting deep here. I guess it probably is more out of habit/social expectations. :blush: I tend to be quieter in sanctuaries etc., dress nicer. That kind of thing. They ingrained in me, but now I honestly couldn't tell you if it was because it was sacred.

 

However, I will go out on a limb and give an example that has occurred to me since this thread started. I have been really delving into the Word of God lately and am having a little mini-revival. (just me, KWIM?) This past week, whenever talk has turned to the things of G*d, I have had a sense of sacredness. Almost 'holy ground' moments if you will. I don't know if that counts. I think for me it would.

 

Now, please don't push me any farther, I have a lot of things to do this weekend. I cannot spend it contemplating these extremely interesting, but time consuming matters. :D

 

Thanks for the food though.

 

I'm sorry, I really didn't mean to put you on the spot! I know what you mean about those moments, and they count for me too. (Though as I say, I'm not here to judge the value of someone else's opinion AT ALL, I'm just wondering what other people's opinions ARE.)

[MamaSheep]

Along with the aforementioned Bible and Biblical meanings, to me when something is sacred, its a hill to die on.

 

Accepting Christ as my Saviour, and my vow to live a more Christian existence, especially when it comes to my marriage and parenting, are sacred.

 

My marriage vows are sacred.

 

My commitment to parenting my children, including homeschooling them, is sacred.

 

I would fight for both of those until I was unable to continue to do so.

 

The rest of the world may turn, but those things are hills to die on for me.

 

 

Interesting thoughts. I wonder if you would clarify something for me, though. Do you consider these things "sacred" because they are "hills to die on", or are they "hills to die on" because they are sacred?

[Guest Katia]

I believe LIFE is sacred. All of life, not just human, although I would most likely put human life ahead of other life and I have before (I would not ditch the car and kill myself and my kids to save an animal on the road; I prioritize that way). Others may prioritize differently.

 

I believe RELIGIOUS BELIEF is sacred. All religions are sacred to those who believe them, and even if I don't believe what someone else believes, I should still show respect towards their religion.

 

I believe FAMILY is sacred. The family relationship. That tie and bond you feel.

 

Sacred is holy, special, irreplaceable and to be placed above all else.

 

I do not see 'things' as sacred, per se, although there are things that are special and irreplaceable, I don't see 'things' as holy. Just me I suppose.

[MamaSheep]

To me, only something that can't be destroyed is sacred. If my house were to burn down, the only thing I would truly find sacred is my family.

 

Hmm...I am not sure if you are saying that the things you feel are sacred cannot be destroyed, or if you are saying that anything that cannot be destroyed is sacred.

 

If you're saying what I think you are, then I tend to agree, and it's kind of what I tried saying above but couldn't think how to say well. Home is sacred to me, but it's not the walls, floor, and roof that are sacred, it's the function they serve. If it all burned down, that sacred "space" so to speak, would not be at all damaged, it would just move to whatever new place became the dwelling of the sacred "family". It's that intangible "home" that is sacred to me, not so much the building that currently houses it. The same thing applies to religious buildings, for me. You could burn down a temple without destroying the sacred bits, it's the intangible stuff that is what's really important. But again, I don't know how to explain properly what I mean.

[newlifemom]

I'm sorry, I really didn't mean to put you on the spot! I know what you mean about those moments, and they count for me too. (Though as I say, I'm not here to judge the value of someone else's opinion AT ALL, I'm just wondering what other people's opinions ARE.)

 

 

It's good. These are good cuts. Painful yes, but good absolutely. Like surgery for cancer.

[Nakia]

I believe LIFE is sacred. All of life, not just human, although I would most likely put human life ahead of other life and I have before (I would not ditch the car and kill myself and my kids to save an animal on the road; I prioritize that way). Others may prioritize differently.

 

I believe RELIGIOUS BELIEF is sacred. All religions are sacred to those who believe them, and even if I don't believe what someone else believes, I should still show respect towards their religion.

 

I believe FAMILY is sacred. The family relationship. That tie and bond you feel.

 

Sacred is holy, special, irreplaceable and to be placed above all else.

 

I do not see 'things' as sacred, per se, although there are things that are special and irreplaceable, I don't see 'things' as holy. Just me I suppose.

 

Beautifully stated!!

[lionfamily1999]

What does "sacred" mean to you?

What is sacred to you?

Do you behave differently toward that which is sacred to you than you do toward that which is not? If so, why, and in what ways? If not, why not?

 

Sacred means something of a deep spiritual value, something that moves mankind towards the light and away from the darkness or something that symbolizes man's move in that direction.

 

Things I feel are sacred:

Holy writings... okay, and a lot of my books that aren't holy ;) The written word, how's that? Beauty and kindness embodied in language. Ideals meant to enlighten us, words meant to soften the sharp corners of life and compell us to continue. The Word is especially sacred, but I think you can catch glimpses of God and the Holy Spirit in writing, even from non-Christian authors. I think poetry that moves you to tears or deep reflection is sacred. Stories that let you see our faults as well as offering a hand up to the high road, those are sacred. I hate to see great words transformed into trash by thoughtless monsters out for a buck or personal glory.

 

Art in all its forms, assuming it follows the parameters set forth above.

 

Promises.

 

Family.

 

And, I have to add that the people who are not as "capable" in society are, imo, sacred. We have a responsibility to protect them, especially from ourselves. They bring an innocence and beauty into our lives, throughout their own, that let's us see how an adult can go to God as a child, how WE would be if we could not allow outside things to taint our minds. When the lambs among us are abused, we should be completely shamed.

 

 

 

I do behave differently with things I believe are sacred, although sometimes not as reverently as I should. For the most part, I stand in awe of their otherworldlyness, but for some, like my family, I'm around it so much that sometimes, I forget the incredible wonder unbelievable nature of... I take it for granted that it's there, always will be, and everyone must have the same sort of thing. There is a certain measure of soberness required when approaching these things, introspection, a measuring of self-worth, an awe and almost heart sickness at everything it encompasses.

 

Okay, did that answer your question, lol..... I went on long enough ;)

[Guest janainaz]

Hmm...I am not sure if you are saying that the things you feel are sacred cannot be destroyed, or if you are saying that anything that cannot be destroyed is sacred.

 

If you're saying what I think you are, then I tend to agree, and it's kind of what I tried saying above but couldn't think how to say well. Home is sacred to me, but it's not the walls, floor, and roof that are sacred, it's the function they serve. If it all burned down, that sacred "space" so to speak, would not be at all damaged, it would just move to whatever new place became the dwelling of the sacred "family". It's that intangible "home" that is sacred to me, not so much the building that currently houses it. The same thing applies to religious buildings, for me. You could burn down a temple without destroying the sacred bits, it's the intangible stuff that is what's really important. But again, I don't know how to explain properly what I mean.

 

I think you worded it fine.

 

I don't hold places or things in any kind of high regard either. I have respect for certain places and for certain things, but to consider something sacred, it would have to be something I could have a relationship with. I believe God sets people apart, not objects or places. My relationship with my husband is sacred, therefore I keep my vows. My family is sacred, our house is a dwelling place. Speaking from the Christian perspective, Jesus said we would worship in spirit and in truth and made no specific reference as to where that would need or should take place.

[Rosie_0801]

:iagree:

 

Can we just go ahead and have a "We love Rosie!" thread?!?!

 

Seriously, though, I so appreciate the thoughtful responses so far. What a great thread!! This is a wonderful bunch of people!

 

Can I agree with the latter statement and run screaming from the first?

 

Rosie

[newlifemom]

Can I agree with the latter statement and run screaming from the first?

 

Rosie

 

 

Hmmm, maybe, but then a bunch of us, [your fans] might chase after you.:tongue_smilie:

[MamaSheep]

I think you worded it fine.

 

I don't hold places or things in any kind of high regard either. I have respect for certain places and for certain things, but to consider something sacred, it would have to be something I could have a relationship with. I believe God sets people apart, not objects or places. My relationship with my husband is sacred, therefore I keep my vows. My family is sacred, our house is a dwelling place. Speaking from the Christian perspective, Jesus said we would worship in spirit and in truth and made no specific reference as to where that would need or should take place.

 

Hmmm....I guess I didn't word it well then (lol) because I DO consider some places and things sacred because their purpose and use is sacred. My house IS sacred to me because it is used for nurturing family relationships. It's just a shell for the sacred family, but it IS a shell for the sacred family. Damaging the shell does not damage the family, the family exists independent of the house, but intentional damage to the house does show disrespect for the family(IMO). It's sacred because it is connected with the family relationship established by God. It is not, in itself, by its own merits, sacred, but it IS sacred to me because it is set aside by God for a specific use--nurturing His children, protection for the family, a place where the focus can be on building family relationships. It is (to me) a sacred purpose...kind of a sharing in creation in a way. But it's not this house specifically, it's whatever house houses the "home" and family. If we move, I would consider the new house as being the same "home" as the old one, in a way. Same family, same nurture, same priorities, and whatnot, just a new location. But then THAT location would be sacred because of the purpose it was then serving. As far as worship goes...well, that's probably a whole other discussion that would need its own thread--'What does "worship" mean to you'. But I think that there are an infinite number of ways to worship and opportunities for worship and places to worship. But I also believe that God has delineated a few methods of more formal worship (such as the sacrament of the last supper). I also believe God has instructed the saints to gather together for such formal worship and fellowship, and to me, designated places for such gathering and worship are also sacred. Though again, it's that intangible sacred space, so to speak, inside that is really what's holy. The walls just house it. But the walls DO house it, and I don't think you can treat the structure with disrespect without showing disrespect for the God to whom it belongs, and for whose purposes it was constructed and is put to use. Anyway. I still don't think I'm explaining well.

Edited September 11, 2009 by MamaSheep

[MamaSheep]

So now I have an additional question to add to the mix.

 

How do YOU determine what you think is sacred? Do you have a specific criteria (like that it relates to God, or that it relates to living things, or freedom or whatever), or do you just sort of go by a "gut feeling" (ie. this and that "feel" sacred, or have a sense of sacredness about them, whereas this and that do not)?

[Rosie_0801]

I guess it comes down to your internal values. They, of course, are formed by religion, upbringing, education, experience and all that sort of stuff.

 

Rosie