Math help! School won't put dd in Alg. 1...

[Sue G in PA]

Here is my dilemna. Dd12 complete Saxon 8/7 last year and did well. She is in ps this year and was placed into a 2nd level pre-algebra class (Foundation for Algebra level 2). The school tested her on Monday (the day before school started) by giving her the Pre-Alg. final exam that the ps students took last year. :001_huh: After a 3 month vacation from school, they give her the final exam from last year and expect she will do WELL? I don't know how she did...they didn't discuss it with me! So, I'm looking over her Pre-Alg. book and she covered every.single.topic in Saxon 8/7 last year! PLUS, there were more topics that Saxon covered that she won't even do this year! What would you do? Should I fight to get her into Alg. 1? Should I just afterschool her using Saxon Alg. 1 this year? This is so frustrating. Why amd I putting this child in ps when I'm doing just as much work as I did homeschooling last year? I HATE THIS!

[Ellie]

I'd be fighting. Yup.

[mschickie]

You need to have a discussion with the principal and the head of the math dept. I would ask to look at the test they gave her and also bring a copy of the last test you took at home. You might also bring the 8/7 book so they can see what she has covered. I think if you do this now they will be willing to move her to the proper class.

[Night Elf]

Will this be the only year she's in public school? I am wondering if afterschooling her in Algebra I will be a good idea if the school system won't see fit to accelerate her. She may complete Algebra I with you and then next year she'll stay the traditional course and be placed in Algebra I at school. At that rate, she'll always be in the public school class focusing on material she learned a year earlier.

 

Also, I don't know what the grade levels are in your state, but here in GA a 12 year old would be in 7th grade. I haven't ever seen a child younger than 8th grade take Algebra. If your child will likely stay in public school, you may just have to let this math course be an easy class for her and hope things get a bit more challenging next school year. It's not fair, but public schools don't have a reputation of doing what is best for the student, although I know it happens for some lucky students.

 

Perhaps fighting for her in your school system would work. I know it wouldn't work in my school system. I've had similar discussions and the schools always cited the whole social/maturity thing. They don't like to see kids get moved ahead of age mates. That is a big reason why we homeschool dd11. She was bored with academics and went to school for friends, but didn't get those either.

[jec3113]

In our experience fighting with the school gets you labeled a "problem" parent ( I mean really you can't possibly know anything, right?! ). Eventually they will take out their anger toward you on your kid. Good luck. This is why so many homeschool. I realize many can't homeschool, but this is why so many do...Schools do not care about the advanced learner.

[LUV2EDU]

Here is my dilemna. Dd12 complete Saxon 8/7 last year and did well. She is in ps this year and was placed into a 2nd level pre-algebra class (Foundation for Algebra level 2). The school tested her on Monday (the day before school started) by giving her the Pre-Alg. final exam that the ps students took last year. :001_huh: After a 3 month vacation from school, they give her the final exam from last year and expect she will do WELL? I don't know how she did...they didn't discuss it with me! So, I'm looking over her Pre-Alg. book and she covered every.single.topic in Saxon 8/7 last year! PLUS, there were more topics that Saxon covered that she won't even do this year! What would you do? Should I fight to get her into Alg. 1? Should I just afterschool her using Saxon Alg. 1 this year? This is so frustrating. Why amd I putting this child in ps when I'm doing just as much work as I did homeschooling last year? I HATE THIS!

 

As a parent, you do have the right to request a record of the test that was given to your dd. The results should give you an idea of which area your dd needs to review.

[LibrarianMom]

Here is my dilemna. Dd12 complete Saxon 8/7 last year and did well. She is in ps this year and was placed into a 2nd level pre-algebra class (Foundation for Algebra level 2).

 

I'm guessing that at 12 she's in 7th grade. Is there an option higher than this class? It could be they put her in the highest class they offer. In my experience, which is limited, very few schools offer algebra I before 8th grade. Unless your dd is planning on a math or science major down the road, I'd figure she'll do well and the class will be a breeze so she can put time and effort ino something else.

[Sue G in PA]

She is in 8th. She started school at age 4 b/c her bday is in Nov. and in MD at that time the cut-off was Dec. 30. So, she is a young 8th grader. I just got back from my son's back to school night (in the 5th/6th gr. building) and asked a bunch of questions about the math. Now I am really angry she is in this pre-alg. class. Her math skills are way above her brothers (even at his age) and it seems that the is the "basic" class for math in 8th grade...the one my son will have and he is considered to be in an average math class right now, if that makes sense. I am just so frustrated with this whole ps experience. I HATE IT!

[JudyJudyJudy]

Sue, as a math teacher, I found that most kids truly are better off NOT taking algebra in 8th grade; two of my college professors found the same to be true. Having said that, if you truly believe that she should be in algebra, then push for it. In every school I ever taught, if a parent pushed hard enough, she got what she wanted.

[Sue G in PA]

Thanks Judy...and everyone. I think I will keep her in the class she is in and see how it goes. Two of her friends from the neighborhood are in the class and when I spoke of moving her, she got this terrified look. :glare: So, unless it is really, really easy for her...I'll just bite my tongue and keep her in. I doubt this child is going on to pursue a career in math or science anyway...but you never know! If she wants extra enrichment at home, I have plenty to keep her occupied. This is just so hard for me.

[cougarmom4]

Sue,

I've read several of your recent posts and can tell it is hard for you to have your kids back in ps. :grouphug: I only homeschooled my son for part of last year and he is back in ps this year for several reasons...so I can relate in a small way to how you might be feeling. It is hard to overlook the shortcomings of ps...but I think it is helpful to look for any benefits, focus on those, and then do our best to deal with or overcome the shortcomings. We have three situations we've dealt with recently--charter school, homeschool, and now the public school--neither one is a perfect fit for this ds...if only I could take the best of each and put them together! But instead...I have to make the best of where we are now.

 

My ds12 is also having to repeat the math class he took last year (which was an accelerated class at the charter school; then completed at home). It is very hard for me to accept it...and I was ready to fight the school tooth and nail to get him moved up. I think I could have won...but before I started the battle, my dh and I talked it over for awhile, met with a high school math teacher we know, and really tried to determine what was the best situation for this ds12.

 

The high school teacher we talked to got us thinking of things in the future that we hadn't really thought of yet. What was our goal in accelerating him? Where did we want him to end up? Why are we wanting to make sure he's pushed? How important are high school transcripts & high grades to us? Would it be better for ds to progress through more math levels or to have strong A's in those math levels? Will he possess the maturity & study skills needed to take Calculus when he's only 14 or 15? What happens if he needs to retake a course? Is it better to do this as a 7th grader or later as a junior in hs?

 

In the end, we realized that it has been important for our ds to be accelerated to this point--because he needed to be challenged, to stretch & learn...this ds just needed that. But we didn't necessarily want him to graduate early, although we would like him to take some AP courses or concurrent enrollment courses his junior or senior year. As this math teacher reminded us, colleges look at the grades...they don't care so much if my ds was only 13 when he took Algebra 2...they'd just care about the C that he got. If we re-do Algebra 1 now...it would lay a stronger foundation for the coming years...and so when he gets to Algebra 2, he might be 14 or 15...but he'd understand the concepts better and have an A instead. The teacher also mentioned that it would be a lot easier/less stressful for him to take Algebra 1 over now than to really struggle in calculus & take it again in high school.

 

I'm not saying this is all exactly like your situation...just offering some things to think about in the long-term plan for your dd. So, if she takes this year and repeats what she already learned...is she still on track to get through the levels of math you want her to get through in high school?

 

Okay, another thing that weighed into our situation...we felt it would be better for our ds to have schoolwork be a little easier so he can focus on other new things at this stage...junior high, 7 different classes, new social situations, study skills/personal responsibility. Those are all areas where he struggles...and perhaps a lighter load will allow him to put more effort into solidifying those necessary skills at this time.

 

Having said all of that...he brought home his math book and I know he is going to repeat everything we did last year. It bothers me...I can't help but feel like all of our efforts last year were wasted! But no...we layed a great foundation...and it will help him to have a different perspective (from a new curriculum) and a bit more practice to really solidify these concepts. I'm just going to remind myself of this over and over and over again this year!

 

I'm not suggesting that you don't fight for your daughter to move up...simply offering some things to consider in determining your course of action. If you feel strongly that you want her in a different class...I'd fight pretty hard until it happened...even if they had to do things 'outside the box' a little. (Is she in the highest math class offered at the school? Sometimes this can be an issue. Could you perhaps teach her math at home in the evenings--instead of her doing homework, you go over the assignment--and then during school she goes somewhere and does the homework assignment? Just an idea I tried a few years back.) I'm a big advocate for fighting for what I want with my kids...I know I am viewed as the squeaky wheel or neurotic parent at our school. Teachers probably groan when they find out my kids are in their class! :D

 

Another random thought: I think afterschooling with a different level or curriculum of math than she takes at school would be so challenging--for her. But what about keeping her in the same math class...and supplementing with Life of Fred at home? Maybe not even requiring too many of the problems to be written out...but more of a supplemental, enriching kind of assignment. My kids have loved this! Or something like Zaccaro's Challenge Math...it wouldn't be a full curriculum, but enrichment.

 

Okay, one more random thought: When I was younger, our family moved when I was in 8th grade. I had to repeat Pre-Algebra because it was the highest class at the school (and my parents didn't know enough to fight for anything else!). Looking back: it was an easy year! I loved feeling so smart! Everyone in the class thought I was brilliant! I think it did great things for my self-esteem. Now, as an adult looking back, I think of how I could have been a year ahead and taken an AP class or something (not that it was offered in our dinky town)...but it was a wasted year!

 

 

Good luck, Sue. Hang in there...(sorry for such a long post!)

[Sue G in PA]

I'm just going to keep her in this class. It will be an easy year and a chance to really solidify all she has learned. Might be good for her self-esteem, too. I am having an incredibly difficult time with this. I.just.don't.like.it. I want them home. Dh got sooo frustrated tonight b/c he couldn't help ds11 with his math. HAH! I just looked at dh and said, "what? you can't help him? why not?" Dh responds he's never seen it before. I laughed and said, "welcome to Everyday Math!" and walked away. See, my dh was singing the praises of EM and wouldn't hear me when I told him how awful it was. Well, he does now. Anyway, thanks everyone. I appreciate your advice.

[JudyJudyJudy]

cougarmom, that was a wonderful post, and I agree with the math teacher.

 

Sue, I think you're doing the right thing by keeping your daughter in that math class. When I was in school (back in ancient times ;)), I was in a rural high school that didn't even offer calculus. Algebra wasn't offered until 9th grade, so I did a lot of review in 8th grade. I was valedictorian of my class and got a full scholarship to college, but I was concerned that I would be far behind the students from other schools.

 

When I got to college, we were given a math placement test. Well, up against kids with calculus and who-knows-what-else, I was the only student in the entire freshman class to score a perfect score on the math placement test and only the second ever since the test had been given at the college. I was shocked, but as my adviser said, "While you might not have had calculus, you obviously had a wonderful math, algebra, geometry, and trig background, so you're ready for calculus. Some of the students who had calculus in high school were pushed through the more basic math classes, so they aren't really ready for calculus because their basic math and algebra skills are so weak." After I started teaching, I understood what he meant.

 

I truly understand your concern about Everyday Math. The schools here teach Connected Mathematics in middle school, which is quite similar, and that is one of the biggest reasons that I don't want my son in public schools. When I tried to go back to work (I wasn't able to continue because of my health), I had considered trying to get financial aid for ds to go to a private school in the next county over. However, when I found out that they used Everyday Math, I decided that we would just continue to homeschool. Ds was in the third grade at the time, and dh was self-employed, so we just had to work homeschooling around our schedules.

 

I'm truly sorry that you're having such a hard time with your kids being in public school. I wish I could say something to make it all better. I'd keep making your dh be the one to help your son with math, though; at least see some enjoyment out of the deal. ;)

 

Take care of yourself. :grouphug:

[mchel210]

My dd did poorly on her math testing...and then I fought with the school. Then they finally said they would let her try the class out and see how she did...and she did fine (of course) Even though she did bad on the first testing. They finally agreed that my dd was not used to testing in PS and just needed another chance.

 

Maybe you can tell them to move her up and let her try it for a month. I had to deal directly with the ESE specialist. That is the person in charge of the disabled kids AND gifted kids. I am not sure what they are called in each state. We have one that does both. I told her my dd was very upset and crying every night about how bad school was. That was the only reason she let her into a higher level.

[BabyBre]

In our experience fighting with the school gets you labeled a "problem" parent ( I mean really you can't possibly know anything, right?! ). Eventually they will take out their anger toward you on your kid.

 

But this does not exclude a parent from being an advocate for their child. If we don't even stand up for our own kids, certainly no one else will.

 

To combat this, I make sure I'm irritatingly present in my dc's classrooms as often as I can be in the form of a parent volunteer. I intend on being there, so I'm delighted to also be helpful while I'm there. Yes, I get sent to the copy room often, but this is also a great place for information (i.e. gossip from the other volunteers and staff members, largely unsolicited). I've also infiltrated the school staff by landing a "lunch lady" position! :sneaky2:

 

Even if you do have a presence with the staff and prominent parents who may give your dc trouble, keep extremely open lines of communication with your dc as well as with the teacher. Don't be the parent the teacher only hears from at conference time.

 

And if you want to remain in control of your children's educations, I agree that it's WAY more work when you send them to ps. It's a constant uphill battle.

 

Poor Sue! Every time I click on a thread on this board that sounds interesting to me lately, it's one of yours! I'm here for you! :grouphug:

[BabyBre]

Dh got sooo frustrated tonight b/c he couldn't help ds11 with his math. HAH! I just looked at dh and said, "what? you can't help him? why not?" Dh responds he's never seen it before. I laughed and said, "welcome to Everyday Math!" and walked away. See, my dh was singing the praises of EM and wouldn't hear me when I told him how awful it was. Well, he does now.

 

I know those bittersweet little "victories"! :rolleyes:

 

Ds16 (grade 11) brought home his pre-calculus book last week. I opened it up slowly chanting, "Please contain numbers! Please contain numbers!". It did! Still quite wordy, but WAY more actual math problems than the math books in his first two years of public high school.

[LUV2EDU]

This is a great post!:iagree:

 

Sue,

I've read several of your recent posts and can tell it is hard for you to have your kids back in ps. :grouphug: I only homeschooled my son for part of last year and he is back in ps this year for several reasons...so I can relate in a small way to how you might be feeling. It is hard to overlook the shortcomings of ps...but I think it is helpful to look for any benefits, focus on those, and then do our best to deal with or overcome the shortcomings. We have three situations we've dealt with recently--charter school, homeschool, and now the public school--neither one is a perfect fit for this ds...if only I could take the best of each and put them together! But instead...I have to make the best of where we are now.

 

My ds12 is also having to repeat the math class he took last year (which was an accelerated class at the charter school; then completed at home). It is very hard for me to accept it...and I was ready to fight the school tooth and nail to get him moved up. I think I could have won...but before I started the battle, my dh and I talked it over for awhile, met with a high school math teacher we know, and really tried to determine what was the best situation for this ds12.

 

The high school teacher we talked to got us thinking of things in the future that we hadn't really thought of yet. What was our goal in accelerating him? Where did we want him to end up? Why are we wanting to make sure he's pushed? How important are high school transcripts & high grades to us? Would it be better for ds to progress through more math levels or to have strong A's in those math levels? Will he possess the maturity & study skills needed to take Calculus when he's only 14 or 15? What happens if he needs to retake a course? Is it better to do this as a 7th grader or later as a junior in hs?

 

In the end, we realized that it has been important for our ds to be accelerated to this point--because he needed to be challenged, to stretch & learn...this ds just needed that. But we didn't necessarily want him to graduate early, although we would like him to take some AP courses or concurrent enrollment courses his junior or senior year. As this math teacher reminded us, colleges look at the grades...they don't care so much if my ds was only 13 when he took Algebra 2...they'd just care about the C that he got. If we re-do Algebra 1 now...it would lay a stronger foundation for the coming years...and so when he gets to Algebra 2, he might be 14 or 15...but he'd understand the concepts better and have an A instead. The teacher also mentioned that it would be a lot easier/less stressful for him to take Algebra 1 over now than to really struggle in calculus & take it again in high school.

 

I'm not saying this is all exactly like your situation...just offering some things to think about in the long-term plan for your dd. So, if she takes this year and repeats what she already learned...is she still on track to get through the levels of math you want her to get through in high school?

 

Okay, another thing that weighed into our situation...we felt it would be better for our ds to have schoolwork be a little easier so he can focus on other new things at this stage...junior high, 7 different classes, new social situations, study skills/personal responsibility. Those are all areas where he struggles...and perhaps a lighter load will allow him to put more effort into solidifying those necessary skills at this time.

 

Having said all of that...he brought home his math book and I know he is going to repeat everything we did last year. It bothers me...I can't help but feel like all of our efforts last year were wasted! But no...we layed a great foundation...and it will help him to have a different perspective (from a new curriculum) and a bit more practice to really solidify these concepts. I'm just going to remind myself of this over and over and over again this year!

 

I'm not suggesting that you don't fight for your daughter to move up...simply offering some things to consider in determining your course of action. If you feel strongly that you want her in a different class...I'd fight pretty hard until it happened...even if they had to do things 'outside the box' a little. (Is she in the highest math class offered at the school? Sometimes this can be an issue. Could you perhaps teach her math at home in the evenings--instead of her doing homework, you go over the assignment--and then during school she goes somewhere and does the homework assignment? Just an idea I tried a few years back.) I'm a big advocate for fighting for what I want with my kids...I know I am viewed as the squeaky wheel or neurotic parent at our school. Teachers probably groan when they find out my kids are in their class! :D

 

Another random thought: I think afterschooling with a different level or curriculum of math than she takes at school would be so challenging--for her. But what about keeping her in the same math class...and supplementing with Life of Fred at home? Maybe not even requiring too many of the problems to be written out...but more of a supplemental, enriching kind of assignment. My kids have loved this! Or something like Zaccaro's Challenge Math...it wouldn't be a full curriculum, but enrichment.

 

Okay, one more random thought: When I was younger, our family moved when I was in 8th grade. I had to repeat Pre-Algebra because it was the highest class at the school (and my parents didn't know enough to fight for anything else!). Looking back: it was an easy year! I loved feeling so smart! Everyone in the class thought I was brilliant! I think it did great things for my self-esteem. Now, as an adult looking back, I think of how I could have been a year ahead and taken an AP class or something (not that it was offered in our dinky town)...but it was a wasted year!

 

 

Good luck, Sue. Hang in there...(sorry for such a long post!)

[EKS]

Would calculus in high school be a good thing for her? If so, I'd fight for algebra in 8th.

[CherylG]

Thanks Judy...and everyone. I think I will keep her in the class she is in and see how it goes. Two of her friends from the neighborhood are in the class and when I spoke of moving her, she got this terrified look. :glare: So, unless it is really, really easy for her...I'll just bite my tongue and keep her in. I doubt this child is going on to pursue a career in math or science anyway...but you never know! If she wants extra enrichment at home, I have plenty to keep her occupied. This is just so hard for me.

Fortunately, all seems well with your girl. God bless you as you navigate through these rough waters. I understand things being hard for you. You never do know-so thank God she has someone in her court like you!!!!

[Pamela H in Texas]

I highly suggest she takes advantage of the extra year.

 

When I returned to public school, I had to take the test for Algebra I though I had already taken it (in an approved state program). The passing score was a 90! I got just under that. I HATED retaking Algebra and thought my straight 99s that year was proof I didn't need it. However, it REALLY REALLY REALLY helped. That foundation, extra year, etc was wonderful for me to go on in maths. And I was a math kid with the intention of doing something mathy (secondary math education or biomedical engineering or whatever).

 

In fact, my experience with a second year made such a differences I've done it with my own children.

 

One consideration is that a student shouldn't lose her math ability over the summer if she really has it. If passing was a 90 and she got an 89, that is one thing; but if she didn't do well (A or B) on the test, then she probably really does need the extra year despite doing well on the program at home.

 

Anyway, so *I* wouldn't fight it at all. This is probably a blessing in disguise :)

Edited September 15, 2009 by 2J5M9K

[lovinmykids]

My Dd was going into 9th grade and had finished Algebra at her private school at the end of 8th grade. She had to go to Public school cuz private school ended after 8th gr. Anyways, she did pretty well on her test but they wanted to put her back 2 years!!! I fought with them long and hard and she still had to go back 1 year. She was so disappointed becuz she wanted to get so far before college. She is also very strong in Math and holds a solid A.

So after her 9th gr. year, we pulled her from that school and put her in the school in the next town. The councelor couldn't believe they did that to her and said she should have been placed in Geometry.

She was so mad!! Well, today she is in 11th and still holds a A average and is in an Honors math. I believe it's a college math, but can't remember the name.

So, if I was you, I would put up a little fight. She will be bored like mine was.

Good luck.