Let's talk about phonics

[Satori]

Okay, so I'm a bit of a perfectionist and love to research/understand things. I'm new at homeschooling and chose OPG as our reading program for my dd4 and it's going well. A month ago I learned that there was (is) a trend of whole word/language and I was alarmed, but then I read "Why Johnny Can't Read" and got "ABCs and All Their Tricks" and came to the conclusion that phonics is indeed the way to go as I originally thought.

 

I am just learning that there are varying levels of phonics, from pure phonics to programs that introduce a few sight words. Without discussing reading programs that include NO phonics, I was hoping to get a discussion going on what's out there, what you all like, in terms of various phonics programs and how "pure" they are.

[ElizabethB]

Geraldine E. Rodgers, in her book, "History of Beginning Reading," came up with a great scale to describe exactly what you are talking about. She ranks methods on a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being 100% pure phonics, and 1 being 100% whole word methods.

 

I have a graph on my History of Reading Instruction page that shows how overall reading instruction in the U.S. has trended for the last several hundred years.

 

Programs that I have seen that I would give a 10 are PP, OPG, Right Track Reading, School Phonics, almost any OG program (some things that claim to be OG really aren't, but any OG program that is based on true OG principles will get a 10.)

 

I have only fleetingly seen Sing, Spell, Read, Write, but Geraldine E. Rodgers gave it a 10.

 

Webster's Speller is also a 10, but it teaches even more than most phonics programs, it extends to teaching phonics for thousands of multi-syllable words, most programs teach only a few multi-syllable words. (But mine goes up to 11! Actually, I'd give it a 15, I like it that much.)

 

The program the Catholic schools we have lived by used is most likely a 10 (but, I never saw a name, I just saw the phonics worksheets that were sent home and the fact that no sight words were sent home.)

 

Most programs used in the schools are a 5 to a 7 depending on how they are implemented: how much the sight words are stressed and how early they are stressed. The more sight words are taught and the earlier they are stressed, the lower the number.

 

Edit: I would also give "The ABCs and All Their Tricks" a 10! You could teach from it if you were motivated enough. Many people do teach spelling from it.

[christielee7278]

We tried 100 Easy Lessons, but my ds HATED it...like pulling teeth to get him to sit long enough. I thought I liked it, but he didn't so we got rid of it.

 

We tried Phonics Pathways and thought it was pretty good, but it is just a book full of words. lol While I thought I could teach from it, I was a little leary being as this is my first child to teach to read. I did not want to make mistakes.

 

Now we are using OPGTR....LOVE it. He loves it, I love it, we all love it.

 

I like the Webster's Speller and Blend Phonics but I am still not sure how to use either. I have Blend Phonics printed and in a binder but haven't really looked at it since printing it.

 

I remember learning from a pure phonics program when I was in kindergarten. After looking over Webster's Speller, I'm pretty sure that is what my school used (I went to a very small school and had less than 10 in my class). Excellent program.

 

We are going to stick with OPG and ETC. He loves ETC for fun review and handwriting practice.

[purplebrooklyn]

We used a program online www.headsprout.com for my daughter the summer before Kindergarten. She knew all her letters and that was about it. After this program her reading shot through the roof. We then used K12s Kindergarten phonics. This worked great for us and I really liked headsprout. It is worth checking out. And you can do the first 3 episodes free if you want to try it out.

[kindermommy]

Geraldine E. Rodgers, in her book, "History of Beginning Reading," came up with a great scale to describe exactly what you are talking about. She ranks methods on a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being 100% pure phonics, and 1 being 100% whole word methods.

 

I have a graph on my History of Reading Instruction page that shows how overall reading instruction in the U.S. has trended for the last several hundred years.

 

Programs that I have seen that I would give a 10 are PP, OPG, Right Track Reading, School Phonics, almost any OG program (some things that claim to be OG really aren't, but any OG program that is based on true OG principles will get a 10.)

 

I have only fleetingly seen Sing, Spell, Read, Write, but Geraldine E. Rodgers gave it a 10.

 

Webster's Speller is also a 10, but it teaches even more than most phonics programs, it extends to teaching phonics for thousands of multi-syllable words, most programs teach only a few multi-syllable words. (But mine goes up to 11! Actually, I'd give it a 15, I like it that much.)

 

The program the Catholic schools we have lived by used is most likely a 10 (but, I never saw a name, I just saw the phonics worksheets that were sent home and the fact that no sight words were sent home.)

 

Most programs used in the schools are a 5 to a 7 depending on how they are implemented: how much the sight words are stressed and how early they are stressed. The more sight words are taught and the earlier they are stressed, the lower the number.

 

Edit: I would also give "The ABCs and All Their Tricks" a 10! You could teach from it if you were motivated enough. Many people do teach spelling from it.

 

Great info Elizabeth! I had not seen this page on your site - and it's hard to believe I could've missed anything...I've been reading everyday!

 

Have you seen "Go Phonics"? It claims to be an OG approach. Here is a link to a very large brochure on the program:

 

http://www.gophonics.com/downloads/Go_Phonics_Program-08.pdf

[Guest janainaz]

I really know nothing about any other programs, but I used OPGTTR and I LOVED it. My son was an excellent reader after we completed the book. I loved the pace, it was not too overwhelming, I loved the reinforcement and the confidence it gave my son, and I loved that I really felt all the phonics steps were being covered. It was very gentle and I loved that.

[Sue G in PA]

I've been overly stressed about Phonics around here, too. OPG didn't work for ds and frankly, the scriptedness just irked me. Just my pers. preference, I guess. Looked at Phonics Pathways, and it looked interested. Looked at 100 EZ and that looked interested. Looked at The Reading Lesson and that looked even better. But, finally, Tina's review of The Phonics Road sold me on that one. I purchased it used here on the board (thanks, Ronda!) and I can't wait to start. I hope Tina chimes in and can link you to her "advertisement" of TPR. BTW, I love the butterfly on your dd's face ( I guess that is your dd!). I am a face painter, myself, and this is a beautiful design.

[tullyfamily]

My approach (after stressing about teaching reading w/ our first child- I read & re-read WTM!) has been to teach pure phonics in the beginning. After awhile your child will begin to read books (Bob books are great beginners & I like to use McGuffey as readers but not as a phonics program) and then you slowly introduce sight words as you come across them. I make up flash cards w/ eyes drawn on the top for sight words. I liked Susan's list in the WTM & her advice to not introduce a sight word until they read it.

 

I do not stress about reading now that I've taught three children to read. In fact, it is my favorite thing to teach! I've used Phonics Pathways for all of my children. I skip all the spelling requirements. We spend 10-15 minutes with PP & then read "real" books for 10-15 minutes. The key is to keep it short & consitent- read every day!

 

HTH!

Heather

[gardening momma]

We're using Teach Your Child to Read in 100 Easy Lessons. I know nothing about other programs. I love it. Yeah, sometimes it is like pulling teeth. But it's working! Today, when dd5 was dawdling and not cooperating, I said, "We don't have that far left to go. But if you keep this up, you'll be doing this forever." Dd5: "No! I want to get it done! Let's do it all today!" 35 lessons? :001_huh: I don't think so. We just finished one today. :001_smile:

 

Oh, and I think it's all phonics, no sight words. There are some words that don't really follow rules, but we're still instructed to sound them out. All words have a sound, so that's phonics to me! We say the beginning sound, middle sound, end sound. Sometimes the book says "that's a funny word" to let the child know it doesn't quite fit the sounds we've learned so far, but this is how this word is pronounced.

[ElizabethB]

We're using Teach Your Child to Read in 100 Easy Lessons. I know nothing about other programs. I love it. Yeah, sometimes it is like pulling teeth. But it's working! Today, when dd5 was dawdling and not cooperating, I said, "We don't have that far left to go. But if you keep this up, you'll be doing this forever." Dd5: "No! I want to get it done! Let's do it all today!" 35 lessons? :001_huh: I don't think so. We just finished one today. :001_smile:

 

Oh, and I think it's all phonics, no sight words. There are some words that don't really follow rules, but we're still instructed to sound them out. All words have a sound, so that's phonics to me! We say the beginning sound, middle sound, end sound. Sometimes the book says "that's a funny word" to let the child know it doesn't quite fit the sounds we've learned so far, but this is how this word is pronounced.

 

It is pure phonics. On that scale, I would give it a 10. However, it doesn't teach all the phonics you need to be able to sound out every word. It is a great start, however. Blend Phonics is also in this category, a great start, a 10 on that scale, but needs to be followed by a bit more phonics knowledge to be able to read everything.

 

Alphaphonics also is a great start for most students. It teaches a little more than the 2 above. But, it is arranged by word families, which some children start to guess at. You need to work across the page as well as down to prevent this problem. It also has nonsense words, which I love, but I don't love the word family arrangement.

[modest-mama]

My kids seem to like Sound Beginnings. It is a reading, writing, handwriting, phonics, and spelling program all in one. My advanced learned got through it quickly. My reluctant learner is progressing and actually enjoys phonics now. He hated our previous approach (Montessori learning and Explode the Code books).

[Honey Bee]

I too researched my tail off before I started. I started with Phonics Road Level 1 (OG method), but failed because I started him (in hindsight) too early. This year ds is 1st grade and we are doing Phonics Road again and loooooving it! I also use WWE 1 to round things out.

 

I have bought many programs: Phonics Museum, SWR, All About Spelling, etc. The longer I stay with Phonics Road, the more I like it. It is such a solid program. I do change up a few things like using the tokens in AAS to help him sound out a word and adding WWE level 1.

 

I didn't much like Phonics Museum (even though I'm an art teacher and think its beautiful). It had a lot of pictures (which were beautiful), and worksheets. It just wasn't what I was looking for. I really wanted to teach them ALL the sounds (vertical phonics) of a letter rather than one sound (horizontal phonics) at a time.

 

SWR was just too unorganized for me. On the other extreme AAS was wonderful with organization. I love the idea behind SWR, but after a year of reading through and trying to get it, I still felt like I would miss something really important. My plan this year was to go with WWE, FFL, and AAS. Then I realized the Phonics Road did all those, along with teaching literature analysis and latin (2nd level- 4th level). If I went with my origianal plan, I would not get either of these or would have to add them in. The only thing I didn't see was narration this year so I added WWE and it has been a match made in heaven for me! We spend about about 30 minutes total on english and I do break up the days if we are learning something new (ex: plurals). Phonics Road only has 34 weeks of instruction so I have wiggle room (heck, I homeschool, I have wiggle room anyway!)

 

Hope this helps!

Edited August 18, 2009 by Honey Bee

[Satori]

ElizabethB: Thank you, that was exactly the type of info I was looking for! 1) That OPG is a "10" in terms of pure phonics. 2) More info on the subject.

I was all ready to buy the Geraldine Rodgers books on Amazon to have them here on Thursday, but the price is a tad too high! About $40, and there are 3 volumes, so $120 is a bit too steep for me, and my local library does not have it. But that's exactly the type of info I wanted to read - the "history" of teaching reading!

Love your chart.

You may be the one that suggested the ABCs and Tricks book for me, I love it as a reference.

 

Sue G: We loved hiring a face painter at my dd's birthday party last year, now we get her face painted anytime we get the chance. :)

We're on lesson 52 of OPG, which I said has been going well, along with ReadingEggs.com (which I feel probably wouldn't score a 10, but it's fun for my girl anyway). We're also using All About Spelling, just on lesson 6 though, but we really like the program. I think we'll focus on it more now. Hmmm... Phonics Road looks interesting, I like the idea of vertical phonics... But to invest another $200 is the question... Too bad I didn't hear about this a few months earlier. (Knowing me I'll purchase it by tomorrow though.)

I am also loving teaching reading, I wish I could teach the neighbor's kids and I'm hoping I get more children so I could teach reading to them. It is so fulfilling/rewarding to me!

[thowell]

where did you find the chart i searched all through her site?

[FairProspects]

Appleslice - I'll be watching for future updates! We seem to have similar taste in curriculums, and you are a year or two ahead of me. We plan to start Phonics Road and WWE fall of 2010. Let me know how it goes!

[ElizabethB]

Have you seen "Go Phonics"? It claims to be an OG approach. Here is a link to a very large brochure on the program:

 

http://www.gophonics.com/downloads/Go_Phonics_Program-08.pdf

 

I haven't seen it, but it looks good from the brochure, it looks to teach all the needed sounds with few sight words. A bit expensive, though.

[ElizabethB]

ElizabethB: Thank you, that was exactly the type of info I was looking for! 1) That OPG is a "10" in terms of pure phonics. 2) More info on the subject.

 

I was all ready to buy the Geraldine Rodgers books on Amazon to have them here on Thursday, but the price is a tad too high! About $40, and there are 3 volumes, so $120 is a bit too steep for me, and my local library does not have it. But that's exactly the type of info I wanted to read - the "history" of teaching reading!

 

Love your chart.

 

You may be the one that suggested the ABCs and Tricks book for me, I love it as a reference.

 

I am also loving teaching reading, I wish I could teach the neighbor's kids and I'm hoping I get more children so I could teach reading to them. It is so fulfilling/rewarding to me!

 

You can get Gerry's book in an e-version for 8.95 at author house. Then, either print it or read it a bit at a time on the computer.

 

http://www.authorhouse.com/Bookstore/ItemDetail.aspx?bookid=2966

 

It's not exactly light reading, so you can read it a bit at a time on the computer--I find that I can read books online if I read them 20 to 30 minutes at a time.

 

I love teaching reading, too. It's even more rewarding teaching remedial students, not only do they learn to read, but they usually have very poor confidence because of their reading problems--fixing that just makes a world of difference for them. It's really easy to find students, I just pass out reading grade level tests to find children that are below grade level.

 

I often recommend "The ABCs and All Their Tricks," but so do a lot of other people here, it's a great book and many of the smart folks here have figured that out, too.

[ElizabethB]

where did you find the chart i searched all through her site?

 

Here they are:

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/Phonics%20Lsns/phonogramsoundch.html

 

I also like the ones from this website, although they don't have the percentages, they are still nice:

 

http://www.readingstore.com/soundcharts.htm

http://www.readingstore.com/phonogrm_chart.htm

[KrissiK]

We're doing A Beka Phonics and I'd say it's mostly phonics, but they do throw sight words in, too. I guess I missed it, but what is wrong with having a few of the most common sight words in a child's repetoire as they learn to read?

[Wildiris]

I am not sure I know what "pure" phonics programs are, but I have usedPhonics Pathwayswith excellent success. I also use Plaid Phonics concurrently with Phonics Pathways. While one can incorporate writing into the use of Phonics Pathways, I like the different approach to phonics that Plaid Phonics offers, and I firmly believe that reading and writing go hand-in-hand. I have also looked at and tried to use The Reading Road to Writing. I found it too cumbersome and found myself just using the cards for the phonetic sounds.

[ElizabethB]

We're doing A Beka Phonics and I'd say it's mostly phonics, but they do throw sight words in, too. I guess I missed it, but what is wrong with having a few of the most common sight words in a child's repetoire as they learn to read?

 

The way A Beka teaches them is much better than the way they are taught in schools, but it's still best not to teach them by sight.

 

In many schools, they're generally taught first and the children learn to guess instead of sounding words out, even when they are later taught phonics.

 

Here's why they're a bad idea and how to teach all but 5 of the most commonly taught sight words phonetically:

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Reading/sightwords.html

 

I've remediated scores of children who had troubles with reading from being taught too many sight words. They work fine for some children, but 30 to 40% of children who learn the Dolch sight words have some degree of reading difficulty based on my reading grade level surveys of hundreds of children in school systems throughout the United States. (We do move often! And, our military friends' children have also moved often, their children often learned to read in states where I have not lived.)