emmsmama Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Preface: I am in Canada and don't find I have any kind of strong accent at all and have been a lot of places and heard words said like this, so I don't think it's just a regional thing... Why is the "whiny baby" sound of "a" never mentioned anywhere? Okay, I came up with the "whiny baby" name for it, but it is a good description. What I'm talking about is the sound in words like ant, land, pant, band, etc. To me, that "a" sound is not a short "a" like in cat at all, neither is it a long "a" sound like in lake. It is also not like the short "o" sound in father. I have a little daycare one that is from England and she says ant and many words with a short a sound, but all the other people I know say "ant" with more of a whiny a sound for lack of a better description. Does anybody get what I mean? Do you say ant and cat with the exact same a sound? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElizabethB Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Most vowels are slightly modified by the following consonant, some do it more than others. That's why I like teaching syllables with a syllabary first, the student learns the subtle variations as part of the first step of teaching reading. For a student with speech difficulties, syllables are even more important. I say those two sounds fairly close, but I say several of the short vowel g syllables (ag, eg, ig, og, ug) differently than the normal short vowel sound. The way I pronounce egg, the e is closer to a long a. I also think ag is not all that close to a normal short a sound, although it's much closer than eg is to a short e sound. The slight differences don't seem to bother most students, though, even with a conventional phonics program not teaching with syllables. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnandtinagilbert Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 a apple (whiny baby sound, or short-a, or soft sound) a ape (says it's name, or long a or hard sound) ah want That's the 3 sounds we teach for the letter a. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelaNYC Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 I'm pretty sure it is supposed to be the short a sound. I think regional dialects have skewed the sounds a bit. Pull up a you-tube video of Jamie Oliver saying ham and pan and it's the same "a" as in cat. :tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionfamily1999 Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 I think it is regional. I've been having problems cleaning the 'y' out of my words. IOW, you say ant with the whiny a, I say it aynt (not aunt, but a-y-nt). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rainbows Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 totally know what you are saying....DS struggled a bit with am, Pam, Sam etc b/c he was saying them with a short A instead of a "whiny" A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 for 'cat' and 'ant'. The 'a' doesn't become nasal due to the nearby 'n'. Laura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingmommy Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 If you are saying "ant" with anything other than the short "a" sound, you have an accent. :001_smile: I don't know very many people who can hear their own accent. I have a friend who has a Southern accent so bad, she can turn any one syllable word to a two syllable word. Bed becomes bey-ud. And she can't hear it. My sister lives in Minnesota, and I've noticed the "whiny a" sound (love that name, btw) seems to be a regional thing. I associate it with Minnesota and Wisconsin. I think it's really cool that you are taking the time to figure these kinds of things out while you are educating your children. I had to break myself of the mispronunciations that I grew up with. And I'm still working on a few. J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy in TN Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 Here is TN there is a slight difference between the a in cat and the a in ant. However, there is typically no difference between the e in ten and the i in tin. There is a difference when I say them, but there are many words where a person with the typically TN accent has totally lost the short e sound. Accents really mess with phonics.:) Mandy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoyfulMama_Karen Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 (edited) I totally know what you're talking about. I definitely say the "a" sound in those words you listed - and likely most words with an "a" followed by an "n" or "m" - differently than I do in words such as "cat." I think the sound I make for those words is kind of a mix between the short and long "a" sounds. It must have something to do with the letters that follow. I can't say it the other way (with a "regular" short "a" sound) without it sounding really funny. :tongue_smilie: So, really, it's regional? I wouldn't think so, but if everyone else seems to think it is... How do the rest of you say those words? The "a" seems too short in the words "and" or "Sam" if I pronounce them with a short "a" sound and too long if I pronounce them with a long "a" sound. :confused: I'm in Canada, too, BTW. Where in Canada are you? I'm near Hamilton, Ontario. Edited July 31, 2009 by JoyfulMama_Karen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardening momma Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 Most vowels are slightly modified by the following consonant, some do it more than others. :iagree: I was going to say that the a sounds different when the n follows, but they're basically both the short a. It's almost impossible for me to get them to sound the same once the next letter is sounded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardening momma Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 Here is TN there is a slight difference between the a in cat and the a in ant. However, there is typically no difference between the e in ten and the i in tin. There is a difference when I say them, but there are many words where a person with the typically TN accent has totally lost the short e sound. Accents really mess with phonics.:) Mandy Oh, it drives me crazy when someone asks for a pen/pin and I can't figure out which one they're saying! :tongue_smilie: "You want a pin?" "Yes." [get a safety pin] "No, I want a piiiiin." "This is a pin." "No, I want a piiin to write with." :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emmsmama Posted July 31, 2009 Author Share Posted July 31, 2009 totally know what you are saying....DS struggled a bit with am, Pam, Sam etc b/c he was saying them with a short A instead of a "whiny" A I'm so glad you guys know what I'm talking about as you got it exactly! I totally know what you're talking about. I definitely say the "a" sound in those words you listed - and likely most words with an "a" followed by an "n" or "m" - differently than I do in words such as "cat." I think the sound I make for those words is kind of a mix between the short and long "a" sounds. It must have something to do with the letters that follow. I can't say it the other way (with a "regular" short "a" sound) without it sounding really funny. :tongue_smilie: So, really, it's regional? I wouldn't think so, but if everyone else seems to think it is... How do the rest of you say those words? The "a" seems too short in the words "and" or "Sam" if I pronounce them with a short "a" sound and too long if I pronounce them with a long "a" sound. :confused: I'm in Canada, too, BTW. Where in Canada are you? I'm near Hamilton, Ontario. I'm in Windsor, Ontario, so not too far from you. I'm thinking maybe it does have something to do with the letter after it as some posters have said; it's definitely a different sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annabel Lee Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 While we're on the topic of the letter 'a' spoken by Canadians - I have a question for the Canadians here. My SIL (Ont.) says the word garage like this: GARE - uj (rhymes with carriage). I say it like this: gar (rhymes with car) - OJ. Is this a regional accent? There's been a few times she & I just couldn't figure out what the other was saying. :tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardening momma Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 While we're on the topic of the letter 'a' spoken by Canadians - I have a question for the Canadians here. My SIL (Ont.) says the word garage like this: GARE - uj (rhymes with carriage). I say it like this: gar (rhymes with car) - OJ. Is this a regional accent? There's been a few times she & I just couldn't figure out what the other was saying. :tongue_smilie: I say ga-radg. My british sil says gare-adg. (the -adg is an approximation of how I say it) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorbackmama Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 totally know what you are saying....DS struggled a bit with am, Pam, Sam etc b/c he was saying them with a short A instead of a "whiny" A Ditto! In fact, my ds STILL has trouble!:tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoyfulMama_Karen Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 I have heard various versions of "garage" I say gu - ROJ. Most of the people I know say the same or gu - RAJ. I've also heard just GRAJ and the GARE - ij that was mentioned. I've also noticed variations in how people say the final soft "g" sound, but those are too hard to explain here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annabel Lee Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 I have heard various versions of "garage" I say gu - ROJ. Most of the people I know say the same or gu - RAJ. I've also heard just GRAJ and the GARE - ij that was mentioned. I've also noticed variations in how people say the final soft "g" sound, but those are too hard to explain here! I think I know what you mean about the final soft "g" - is it like beginning sound in the French word or phrase "j'emepelle"? (Sorry, my French is horrible, it's been since high school). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keptwoman Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 Oh, it drives me crazy when someone asks for a pen/pin and I can't figure out which one they're saying! :tongue_smilie: "You want a pin?" "Yes." [get a safety pin] "No, I want a piiiiin." "This is a pin." "No, I want a piiin to write with." :lol: You want to try being a New Zealander in Australia. It's a whole new level of hell :lol: As well as having to deal with people not understanding me.. or making fun of my accent which got old about 3 years ago; I also have a DD who speaks with totally different vowel sounds to me. Now THAT is challenging!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAR120C Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 I have a friend who has a Southern accent so bad, she can turn any one syllable word to a two syllable word. Bed becomes bey-ud. And she can't hear it. Not quite that bad, but he has a southern accent that he didn't get from us!! When he was first learning to read I could tell when he was sounding it out letter by letter vs. when he was reading whole words... One of his first reading incidents was with a parking sign that said the space was "van accessible"... He sounded out "vvvvvaaaannnnn" and then realized what the word was and said "VAYUN!" *sigh* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emmsmama Posted July 31, 2009 Author Share Posted July 31, 2009 While we're on the topic of the letter 'a' spoken by Canadians - I have a question for the Canadians here. My SIL (Ont.) says the word garage like this: GARE - uj (rhymes with carriage). I say it like this: gar (rhymes with car) - OJ. Is this a regional accent? There's been a few times she & I just couldn't figure out what the other was saying. :tongue_smilie: I say ga (short a) roj (short o and the j has a softer sound like someone said is used in j'amapelle). Ditto! In fact, my ds STILL has trouble!:tongue_smilie: I find with ds that if he's having trouble making sense of the word, if I say the "a" has the "whiny baby sound", he will get it quickly. I am also finding now that he is reading a bit more, if he sounds it out with a short "a" sound, he quickly figures out that it needed the whiny baby sound to sound right to him. So he'll read fffffaaaaannnnn and then say outloud "fan" with the sound he's used to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardening momma Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Well we teach that vowels have 2 basic sounds. "A" really has more like 5 sounds. I distinctly remember in first grade learning 3 sounds for the letter A. I remember the teacher used the symbols above the letter to indicate which sound to use (can't remember the terms for those symbols). There was the short A, long A and one with two balls over it (all I can think of is "ball A" but that doesn't quite sound right). It's the A in "father." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emmsmama Posted September 23, 2009 Author Share Posted September 23, 2009 Haha, I'm not crazy! This website was linked on another board I'm on. The video is quite boring, but it clearly explains the "whiny baby" sound I was talking about. Thankfully, ds pretty much has figured out how to morph the word to sound right to him after he originally sounds it out, but it does help that if he is having trouble, I can tell him that if the "a" is followed by an "n, m, or ng" that it makes a slightly different sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in Australia Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 a apple (whiny baby sound, or short-a, or soft sound)a ape (says it's name, or long a or hard sound) ah want That's the 3 sounds we teach for the letter a. we have 5 sounds for 'A' in Australia.:D a as in apple a with an ' u' sound as in ask, and last A as in made a with a 'oo' sound as in all , Australia, and ball, a with an 'or' sound as in walk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in Australia Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 You want to try being a New Zealander in Australia. It's a whole new level of hell :lol:!! do New Zealanders have different sounds for a? Their a's usually sounds the same in every word. My Canadian husband can't pick the accent difference between Australians and New Zealanders. I assure him there is a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 Oh, it drives me crazy when someone asks for a pen/pin and I can't figure out which one they're saying! :tongue_smilie: I grew up in New England and spent six months in Kentucky while my DH was stationed at Ft. Knox. I worked as an office manager during this time and got chewed out by my boss one time for taking down a phone message wrong. This is what happened: the gentleman leaving his message gave his name as "Mahk". I wrote down "Call Mark" when I should have written "Call Mike". :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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