Somebody talk to me about Aspberger's.

[LG Gone Wild]

If I spelled that wrong, sorry. There is a lady who wants to talk to me about homeschooling. Actually she already does this through a charter. She is really unhappy with her charter and was intrigued about going independent. She is teaching her son who has this impediment. I can talk all day long about going independent and what our family does but I have nothing to offer her in regards to schooling a challenged child. She isn't looking for my input on Aspie kids, I would like to know what she is facing.

 

Now, her son is a handful and I don't know if that is due to Aspie or because he needs to be put over the proverbial bended knee. The only other Aspie child I have ever known about is not a handful (actually so much calmer and well-behaved than my own ds). Two kids, not a whole of empirical data.

[Night Elf]

My son has Aspergers. He too is a calm, obedient, docile child. When he was younger he was more challenging. So my first question is to know the age of the child. That may make a huge difference in the types of materials she might choose.

 

My son didn't do as well with structured material when he was younger than 10 years old. We started out with Calvert School and he hated it. It was much too predictable, repetitive and dull. But now as a preteen, he is using K12 and doing extremely well. He likes to know exactly what he has to do before he begins and needs to check off his assignments so he can watch his school day getting shorter.

 

When he was younger, he did better doing schoolwork when he could move around. He sat longer at the table when he used an exercise ball as a chair. He did better with oral work rather than writing things out. Once he was old enough to type, he didn't mind typing assignments. Handwriting was difficult for him, though he can do it if he needs to.

 

My son also hates change. When we start studying a topic, he's reluctant. By the time we finish the topic he gets frustrated by having to go to another topic. For example, we spent 2 years doing World History. He really didn't want to do American History. But after we started, he loved it! Now we're ending his second year of American History and will be starting World History next month. He's frustrated because he says he hates World History. He doesn't remember that he loved it the last time we studied it.

 

Patience, patience, and more patience. It's really challenging. She probably only knows being in a charter school but I cannot even imagine my son being in one. It's as restrictive as regular school which didn't work so we pulled him out to homeschool!

[Orthodox6]

First off, just correcting a terminology blooper, not chastizing you ! (Thanks in advance for understanding this.) Asperger's is not "an impediment", but a developmental situation. (I have one ds Aspie, an undiagnosed elder brother who is dead-ringer for Asperger's, and I have it mildly, myself.)

 

I don't homeschool that ds anymore because he was best helped by enrolling in a small private school designed for students like himself. Continuing to homeschool our Aspie son would have been choosing to send him straight down the drain.

 

Other families successfully homeschool their dc, because conditions can vary so markedly.

 

As for "what she is facing", everything depends upon the severity of her son's condition, AND upon whether the boy is receiving assistance (therapy and/or medication) or is being left alone with the hope that he will "outgrow everything." (I soundly reject the "leave things alone" approach, but that is from experience.)

 

In sum, you may need to learn more about the family in order to be of the greatest help to her considering homeschooling.

Edited May 28, 2009 by Orthodox6

[LG Gone Wild]

First off, just correcting a terminology blooper, not chastizing you ! (Thanks in advance for understanding this.) Asperger's is not "an impediment", but a developmental situation. (I have one ds Aspie, an undiagnosed elder brother who is dead-ringer for Asperger's, and I have it mildly, myself.)

 

I don't homeschool that ds anymore because he was best helped by enrolling in a small private school designed for students like himself. Continuing to homeschool our Aspie son would have been choosing to send him straight down the drain.

 

Other families successfully homeschool their dc, because conditions can vary so markedly.

 

As for "what she is facing", everything depends upon the severity of her son's condition, AND upon whether the boy is receiving assistance (therapy and/or medication) or is being left alone with the hope that he will "outgrow everything." (I soundly reject the "leave things alone" approach, but that is from experience.)

 

In sum, you may need to learn more about the family in order to be of the greatest help to her considering homeschooling.

 

Okay but what is it, Asperger's, that is. I mean, I really have NO IDEA. Describe this developmental condition so that I am not talking out of my @ss.

 

Also, why would homeschooling have been so bad? I know that it just happened to be your situation but now that you have mentionned it, you've riled up my nosey side. :tongue_smilie:

[HeatherLynn]

First off, just correcting a terminology blooper, not chastizing you ! (Thanks in advance for understanding this.) Asperger's is not "an impediment", but a developmental situation. (I have one ds Aspie, an undiagnosed elder brother who is dead-ringer for Asperger's, and I have it mildly, myself.)

 

I don't homeschool that ds anymore because he was best helped by enrolling in a small private school designed for students like himself. Continuing to homeschool our Aspie son would have been choosing to send him straight down the drain.

 

Other families successfully homeschool their dc, because conditions can vary so markedly.

 

As for "what she is facing", everything depends upon the severity of her son's condition, AND upon whether the boy is receiving assistance (therapy and/or medication) or is being left alone with the hope that he will "outgrow everything." (I soundly reject the "leave things alone" approach, but that is from experience.)

 

In sum, you may need to learn more about the family in order to be of the greatest help to her considering homeschooling.

:iagree:

 

I have an Aspie child who is hard to deal with. Yes, it appears he needs a good butt whooping but no amount of whooping would help. He is just wild. We have tried everything, and while he can be mild mannered and well behaved at times, he can also make your jaw drop. Every child is different.

[catalinakel]

google it. there is tons of info available online. My daughter has aspergers...and, yes, spankings early on in life helped....she has grown out of much, but stilll struggles somewhat socially....each child is unique.

[LG Gone Wild]

My son has Aspergers. He too is a calm, obedient, docile child. When he was younger he was more challenging. So my first question is to know the age of the child. That may make a huge difference in the types of materials she might choose.

 

My son didn't do as well with structured material when he was younger than 10 years old. We started out with Calvert School and he hated it. It was much too predictable, repetitive and dull. But now as a preteen, he is using K12 and doing extremely well. He likes to know exactly what he has to do before he begins and needs to check off his assignments so he can watch his school day getting shorter.

 

When he was younger, he did better doing schoolwork when he could move around. He sat longer at the table when he used an exercise ball as a chair. He did better with oral work rather than writing things out. Once he was old enough to type, he didn't mind typing assignments. Handwriting was difficult for him, though he can do it if he needs to.

 

My son also hates change. When we start studying a topic, he's reluctant. By the time we finish the topic he gets frustrated by having to go to another topic. For example, we spent 2 years doing World History. He really didn't want to do American History. But after we started, he loved it! Now we're ending his second year of American History and will be starting World History next month. He's frustrated because he says he hates World History. He doesn't remember that he loved it the last time we studied it.

 

Patience, patience, and more patience. It's really challenging. She probably only knows being in a charter school but I cannot even imagine my son being in one. It's as restrictive as regular school which didn't work so we pulled him out to homeschool!

 

 

This boy is 9 years old.

 

Totally changing topics, tell me about Keystone.

[MamaSheep]

Asperger's Syndrome is a neurological condition and can affect anything related to the nervous system including cognitive and sensory functions. Nobody knows what causes it yet, and it manifests somewhat differently from person to person. It is considered by some to be on the "autism spectrum", and by others to be a separate disorder that has many similarities to autism. By definition, a person with Asperger's has an average to above average IQ (if it's lower, they get a different diagnosis). People with Asperger's Syndrome characteristically have deficits in social functioning, including odd and inappropriate behaviors, difficulty with non-verbal communication such as body language and facial expression, and can often have a hard time understanding non-literal language such as sarcasm, idioms and figures of speech. They can also have difficulty understanding the ebb and flow of conversation, tending to "lecture" rather than converse. (One nick-name for the syndrome is "little professor syndrome" because they're very smart and tend to speak pedantically.) They usually have very narrow, focused interests, often in unusual things (sometimes referred to as "obsessions" or "passions", depending on one's attitude about the condition). Often people with Asperger's also experience the world differently with their senses than most people around them (sensory integration disorder). Again, this differs from person to person, but an Aspie may have an aversion to (or conversely may crave) certain types or intensities of lights, colors, textures, touch, tastes, smells, sounds, and so forth, or may have difficulty sensing where their body is in space, making them fidgety and off balance. Many Aspies also have difficulties with changes in routine because they are already dealing with so much that a surprise can really throw them off their precarious mental balance. Aspies also often have comorbid conditions such as anxiety, depression, seizures, tics, OCD, ODD, PTSD, ADHD and others that can be diagnosed and treated separately, but which often go undiagnosed because they are just attributed to the AS.

 

We started homeschooling our Aspie when he was nine, and it's been the best thing EVER for him. He went to a public school with every support the very cooperative staff could offer him through third grade, and he was a MESS. He is now much healthier and better behaved (and no longer suicidal, which is always a plus). We have signed him up for one class at the junior high for next year to see how it goes, and we continue to take advantage of therapies and services offered through the public school system, but at this point we feel the best thing for him (and us) will be to keep him home for the duration. He's incredibly smart, but gets impatient with having to wait for other kids, and has real issues with other kids' anti-social behavior at school, in addition to having some sensory sensitivities that are constantly under fire in a typical classroom setting.

 

Thank you for not passing judgment about your friend's son's behavior. Behavior in an Aspie can be rather complicated to unsnarl, as sometimes "bad" behavior can be a reaction to a painful sensory stimulus, an overloaded nervous system, a "fight, flight, or freeze" response triggered by a social situation they perceive as threatening, or just developmentally delayed impulse control. Developmentally these kids can be all over the chart--it's not so much DELAYED development (though there ususally are delays in some areas) as it is UNEVEN development. For example, my 12 yo son tests out at a 22 yo level in some things and about a 5-7 yo level in others, and all of these can vary depending on whether he's hungry, tired, excited, calm, etc. It can be very confusing for the adults in the scenario when they're dealing with a 6 year old child who can multiply multi-digit numbers in his head and read at a high school level, but isn't yet potty-trained. We tend to think of skills developing more or less in a pattern so that if a child can do X, we should be able to also expect him to do Y, but with Aspies that all goes out the window and you just have to really get to know YOUR child's developmental pattern and roll with the punches. And sometimes "bad behavior" is just plain old bad behavior too, and the proper response is discipline. But discipline isn't going to help if the problem is sensory. If you take a child who is in pain, say from a too-bright light (which you don't notice, because your nervous system is not oversensitive) and beat him for being in pain, it really only makes things worse, if you see what I mean, and will probably escalate the behavior. And if he is really developmentally much younger than he is in some area, such as impulse control, then it's not really fair to expect him to be able to perform at the same level as other kids his age, and no amount of punishment will speed up the development process, and it may in fact impede it.

 

Aspies often come across as either the "angel" or the "demon" behavior-wise. This is because different people react differently to being overwhelmed, and Aspies spend a LOT of time feeling overwhelmed. The two most typical reactions for ANYONE who is overwhelmed, not just Aspies, are to either withdraw, or to fight back. The withdrawers get labeled as "good" because they tend to just sit there and be quiet, whereas the fighters get labeled as "bad" because they tend to pitch humongous, out of control fits (aka "meltdowns"). But generally both behaviors are indicative of neurological overwhelm, and it's best to help your child find a happy medium where they are cheerfully engaged in what is going on.

 

If your friend would like to talk with another homeschooling Aspie mom, PM me and I'll give you my email address to pass along.

 

HTH

Edited May 28, 2009 by MamaSheep

[LG Gone Wild]

You've described my son.

 

Asperger's Syndrome is a neurological condition and can affect anything related to the nervous system including cognitive and sensory functions. Nobody knows what causes it yet, and it manifests somewhat differently from person to person. It is considered by some to be on the "autism spectrum", and by others to be a separate disorder that has many similarities to autism. By definition, a person with Asperger's has an average to above average IQ (if it's lower, they get a different diagnosis). People with Asperger's Syndrome characteristically have deficits in social functioning, including odd and inappropriate behaviors, difficulty with non-verbal communication such as body language and facial expression, and can often have a hard time understanding non-literal language such as sarcasm, idioms and figures of speech. They can also have difficulty understanding the ebb and flow of conversation, tending to "lecture" rather than converse. (One nick-name for the syndrome is "little professor syndrome" because they're very smart and tend to speak pedantically.) They usually have very narrow, focused interests, often in unusual things (sometimes referred to as "obsessions" or "passions", depending on one's attitude about the condition). Often people with Asperger's also experience the world differently with their senses than most people around them (sensory integration disorder). Again, this differs from person to person, but an Aspie may have an aversion to (or conversely may crave) certain types or intensities of lights, colors, textures, touch, tastes, smells, sounds, and so forth, or may have difficulty sensing where their body is in space, making them fidgety and off balance. Many Aspies also have difficulties with changes in routine because they are already dealing with so much that a surprise can really throw them off their precarious mental balance. Aspies also often have comorbid conditions such as anxiety, depression, seizures, tics, OCD, ODD, PTSD, ADHD and others that can be diagnosed and treated separately, but which often go undiagnosed because they are just attributed to the AS.

 

We started homeschooling our Aspie when he was nine, and it's been the best thing EVER for him. He went to a public school with every support the very cooperative staff could offer him through third grade, and he was a MESS. He is now much healthier and better behaved (and no longer suicidal, which is always a plus). We have signed him up for one class at the junior high for next year to see how it goes, and we continue to take advantage of therapies and services offered through the public school system, but at this point we feel the best thing for him (and us) will be to keep him home for the duration. He's incredibly smart, but gets impatient with having to wait for other kids, and has real issues with other kids' anti-social behavior at school, in addition to having some sensory sensitivities that are constantly under fire in a typical classroom setting.

 

Thank you for not passing judgment about your friend's son's behavior. Behavior in an Aspie can be rather complicated to unsnarl, as sometimes "bad" behavior can be a reaction to a painful sensory stimulus, an overloaded nervous system, a "fight, flight, or freeze" response triggered by a social situation they perceive as threatening, or just developmentally delayed impulse control. Developmentally these kids can be all over the chart--it's not so much DELAYED development (though there ususally are delays in some areas) as it is UNEVEN development. For example, my 12 yo son tests out at a 22 yo level in some things and about a 5-7 yo level in others, and all of these can vary depending on whether he's hungry, tired, excited, calm, etc. It can be very confusing for the adults in the scenario when they're dealing with a 6 year old child who can multiply multi-digit numbers in his head and read at a high school level, but isn't yet potty-trained. We tend to think of skills developing more or less in a pattern so that if a child can do X, we should be able to also expect him to do Y, but with Aspies that all goes out the window and you just have to really get to know YOUR child's developmental pattern and roll with the punches. And sometimes "bad behavior" is just plain old bad behavior too, and the proper response is discipline. But discipline isn't going to help if the problem is sensory. If you take a child who is in pain, say from a too-bright light (which you don't notice, because your nervous system is not oversensitive) and beat him for being in pain, it really only makes things worse, if you see what I mean, and will probably escalate the behavior. And if he is really developmentally much younger than he is in some area, such as impulse control, then it's not really fair to expect him to be able to perform at the same level as other kids his age, and no amount of punishment will speed up the development process, and it may in fact impede it.

 

Aspies often come across as either the "angel" or the "demon" behavior-wise. This is because different people react differently to being overwhelmed, and Aspies spend a LOT of time feeling overwhelmed. The two most typical reactions for ANYONE who is overwhelmed, not just Aspies, are to either withdraw, or to fight back. The withdrawers get labeled as "good" because they tend to just sit there and be quiet, whereas the fighters get labeled as "bad" because they tend to pitch humongous, out of control fits (aka "meltdowns"). But generally both behaviors are indicative of neurological overwhelm, and it's best to help your child find a happy medium where they are cheerfully engaged in what is going on.

 

If your friend would like to talk with another homeschooling Aspie mom, PM me and I'll give you my email address to pass along.

 

HTH

[Mom22ns]

MamaSheep gave you an excellent description of Aspergers. I just thought that I would add, Aspergers is defined by the DSM IV (which officically defines mental disorders) as a subcategory of Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD). Autism is another subcategory of PDD to give you perspective on that. The diagnostic criteria are:

 

Qualitative impairment in social interaction, as manifested by at least two of the following:

*marked impairments in the use of multiple nonverbal behaviors such as eye-to-eye gaze, facial expression, body posture, and gestures to regulate social interaction

*failure to develop peer relationships appropriate to developmental level a lack of spontaneous seeking to share enjoyment, interest or achievements with other people, (e.g.. by a lack of showing, bringing, or pointing out objects of interest to other people)

*lack of social or emotional reciprocity

 

Restricted repetitive & stereotyped patterns of behavior, interests and activities, as manifested by at least one of the following:

*encompassing preoccupation with one or more stereotyped and restricted patterns of interest that is abnormal either in intensity or focus

apparently inflexible adherence to specific, nonfunctional routines or rituals stereotyped and repetitive motor mannerisms (e.g. hand or finger flapping or twisting, or complex whole-body movements)

*persistent preoccupation with parts of objects

 

The disturbance causes clinically significant impairments in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.

There is no clinically significant general delay in language (E.G. single words used by age 2 years, communicative phrases used by age 3 years)

There is no clinically significant delay in cognitive development or in the development of age-appropriate self help skills, adaptive behavior (other than in social interaction) and curiosity about the environment in childhood.

Criteria are not met for another specific Pervasive Developmental Disorder or Schizophrenia."

 

As you can see, there are many choices within the diagnostic criteria that could still qualify. At the same time if you see some of these characteristics, but not enough or not the right match up, you may want to read some of the other categories of PDD. There is a catch all category PDD-NOS (not otherwise specified) for those who have some characteristics of PDD but not a set that meets with any of the specific labels :001_smile:. These variances explain why you have seen children that look so very different diagnosed with the same disorder. Parenting may also play a role. If your own child sounds a lot like this, do more research and feel free to ask questions on the special needs board for more response on the topic.

[MamaSheep]

MamaSheep gave you an excellent description of Aspergers. I just thought that I would add, Aspergers is defined by the DSM IV (which officically defines mental disorders) as a subcategory of Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD). Autism is another subcategory of PDD to give you perspective on that. The diagnostic criteria are:

 

Qualitative impairment in social interaction, as manifested by at least two of the following:

*marked impairments in the use of multiple nonverbal behaviors such as eye-to-eye gaze, facial expression, body posture, and gestures to regulate social interaction

*failure to develop peer relationships appropriate to developmental level a lack of spontaneous seeking to share enjoyment, interest or achievements with other people, (e.g.. by a lack of showing, bringing, or pointing out objects of interest to other people)

*lack of social or emotional reciprocity

 

Restricted repetitive & stereotyped patterns of behavior, interests and activities, as manifested by at least one of the following:

*encompassing preoccupation with one or more stereotyped and restricted patterns of interest that is abnormal either in intensity or focus

apparently inflexible adherence to specific, nonfunctional routines or rituals stereotyped and repetitive motor mannerisms (e.g. hand or finger flapping or twisting, or complex whole-body movements)

*persistent preoccupation with parts of objects

 

The disturbance causes clinically significant impairments in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.

There is no clinically significant general delay in language (E.G. single words used by age 2 years, communicative phrases used by age 3 years)

There is no clinically significant delay in cognitive development or in the development of age-appropriate self help skills, adaptive behavior (other than in social interaction) and curiosity about the environment in childhood.

Criteria are not met for another specific Pervasive Developmental Disorder or Schizophrenia."

 

As you can see, there are many choices within the diagnostic criteria that could still qualify. At the same time if you see some of these characteristics, but not enough or not the right match up, you may want to read some of the other categories of PDD. There is a catch all category PDD-NOS (not otherwise specified) for those who have some characteristics of PDD but not a set that meets with any of the specific labels :001_smile:. These variances explain why you have seen children that look so very different diagnosed with the same disorder. Parenting may also play a role. If your own child sounds a lot like this, do more research and feel free to ask questions on the special needs board for more response on the topic.

 

Thanks for posting that, it's always nice to get the official description. And you're right, it is sort of a buffet-style diagnosis, which is one reason it seems so different from person to person. Something I think many people don't realize is that since there's not an actual medical test for Asperger's Syndrome, the diagnosis is really more a way of categorizing people according to behavior than it is an indication that some particular, specific thing is anatomically different. There probably is a consistent anatomical thing (or things) going on, but reasearch hasn't nailed it down yet. So it's a very subjective thing, not like, say Down's Syndrome or Fragile X where you can look at the chromosomes and say "yep, he's got it".

 

Something else I thought of after posting that parents should keep in mind too when reading over things like this is that the intensity of the symptoms makes a big difference. A lot of "normal" kids are a little socially awkward or have unusual hobbies, most kids throw tantrums, and some are a little oversensitive to certain flavors or whatever. It's not usually considered a "disorder" unless these "normal" behaviors are taken way to the extreme--to the extent that they interfere with the "normal" funtioning of a person. If it's causing serious issues in life, it may be a diagnosible disorder. If you can compensate fairly easily and work around it, it's probably just a personal variation on normal. Everyone is different, and something that we seem to be losing touch with in our current society is that THAT IS OK. You don't need to worry about any of this stuff if your child is getting on fine in his/her life.

Edited May 28, 2009 by MamaSheep

[Jennefer@SSA]

Yes, MamaSheep gave you a great description. My ds8 has Asperger's and he is one of the wild ones. He also has severe ADHD and moderate Sensory Processing Disorder. Many people think he needs more spankings but for my ds that will do nothing but send him further into a negative spiral. The behavior issues we face are usually b/c his is overstimulated. Add a spanking to that and he is truly out of control. His system cannot handle that much sensory input.

 

I just wanted to add that in the new DSM V which is coming out in 2010 (if I remember correctly) they are doing away with the PDD-NOS label. At least that's how the revisions are reading now according to our Developmental Pedi. She said there will just be Aspergers and Mild Autism, Moderate Autism and Severe Autism. She said that things might possibly change as they are still in the revision stage though. Just thought I'd throw that out there.

 

I am confident that homeschooling my son is the best thing we could have ever done for him. It is exhausting and overwhelming. Yet we choose this option each year b/c I taught ps for 7 years and I know what life would be like for him. Many, many Aspies so great in ps but when you add it all up for my son, it just would not work.

 

Raising kids is hard. Raising a special needs kiddo is super hard. One of the best things you can do for your friend is acknowledge that and encourage the socks off her in any possible way you can. I am probably putting my own lenses on the situation thinking what I need but still I think most moms of SN kids would agree. A few hugs, a chocolate bar and a "Way to go!" from a friend can keep me going for weeks! :D

[Jennefer@SSA]

Something else I thought of after posting that parents should keep in mind too when reading over things like this is that the intensity of the symptoms makes a big difference. A lot of "normal" kids are a little socially awkward or have unusual hobbies, most kids throw tantrums, and some are a little oversensitive to certain flavors or whatever. It's not usually considered a "disorder" unless these "normal" behaviors are taken way to the extreme--to the extent that they interfere with the "normal" funtioning of a person. If it's causing serious issues in life, it may be a diagnosible disorder. If you can compensate fairly easily and work around it, it's probably just a personal variation on normal. Everyone is different, and something that we seem to be losing touch with in our current society is that THAT IS OK. You don't need to worry about any of this stuff if your child is getting on fine in his/her life.

 

:iagree: Great point!

[Ibbygirl]

I have a daughter with Asperger's, OCD and ADHD and a son who is severely Autistic. They are night and day in personality. My son, who is the most disabled, is actually in many ways the "easiest" one. With him it's a matter of keeping him safe at all times and always knowing where he is and what his is doing. Plus he is non-communicative so that is always a challenge, but personality wise he is as sweet as can be and very compliant. My daughter on the other hand.... hehehe She's like Monk's personality but on steroids! She can be extremely difficult to deal with and has a hard time sitting still and focusing. She can be completely wild and very difficult to manage, but she has a heart of gold. I know it is just her "issues" that drive her compulsions and behaviors so I try to be as patient as I can (she's the one I homeschool btw). For her, I cannot see any other way except to homeschool her. I shudder to think what she would be like if she went to regular school. My husband, who was convinced that her issues were a result of her being homeschooled put his foot down one year and told me I had to send her to school or else. She went for third grade and it was a NIGHTMARE!! She got bullied horribly and the school was completely inept as far as dealing with the problem. She came home everyday from school without knowing how to do her homework because she was daydreaming all the time in school. We were staying up every evening until 11pm 12am sometimes re-schooling her from what she was supposed to have learned durning the day. It was a tremendous strain on our family and after 2 months my husband said, "you're homeschooling her again next year." hehe These kids really have special needs and for us, one on one teaching is the only way for me to help her. She's very bright and sweet, but she just has compulsions and issues that dominate all else.

Edited May 28, 2009 by Ibbygirl

[Orthodox6]

(Just back from errands. . .) I'm sorry ! I didn't know that you wanted any details -- I misread and thought that you specifically did NOT want details !

 

I'll PM you something about my ds.

 

Okay but what is it, Asperger's, that is. I mean, I really have NO IDEA. Describe this developmental condition so that I am not talking out of my @ss.

 

Also, why would homeschooling have been so bad? I know that it just happened to be your situation but now that you have mentionned it, you've riled up my nosey side. :tongue_smilie:

[Night Elf]

Totally changing topics, tell me about Keystone.

 

Hmm.. not sure what to say really. It's a traditional high school program that offers an accredited diploma. They require 21 credits to graduate. My daughter transferred 12 in from public high school and is taking the other 9 with Keystone. Our biggest mistake was enrolling her in 6 courses at one time. We thought she could handle it because that is what she did in public high school. But it was very overwhelming and since she didn't know how to homeschool, it has really been a tough year. At the end of the school year, she's only gotten a half-credit in science and a half-credit in government. She should have 6 full credits. *sigh* She's on track now though, although she won't graduate early like she originally anticipated.

 

It's a good program. The website is slow sometimes which drives her batty. They offer correspondence and online courses. She tried the correspondence courses but they were too hard for her to pace. They don't offer a suggested schedule. However, they do offer a schedule with the online courses. We switched all her courses to online because of that. Of course it was extra money.

 

The turnaround for graded papers with the correspondence courses seemed a little long for me. I expect a turnaround of 2 weeks but it seemed like double that most of the time. The online classes are much quicker.

 

We do plan on using Keystone for our other 2 children. I would like to use Chlonlara for my ds12, but my DH thinks he can handle Keystone. The school requires a lot of writing. There are many long answer questions in journals, quizzes and exams. Some subjects have papers assigned. My son has Aspergers and I'm worried the amount of writing will overwhelm him. But my DH is in charge of the decision. Now we just have to decide when to put our son in Keystone classes.

[MamaSheep]

I am confident that homeschooling my son is the best thing we could have ever done for him. It is exhausting and overwhelming. Yet we choose this option each year b/c I taught ps for 7 years and I know what life would be like for him. Many, many Aspies so great in ps but when you add it all up for my son, it just would not work.

 

 

I agree completely that it's exhausting and overwhelming (and I'm adding my ADHD daughter to the pile next year--I think I may need a psych eval myself...lol). But for us, having him in school was even MORE overwhelming and exhausting. This way we're tired, but we're all happy.

 

I'm also happy to report that his OCD behaviors are pretty much completely gone now (yay! no more going back to touch things an even number of times!), he's stopped eating things that are not food (pica), his ODD behaviors are drastically improved (though he still behaves oddly at times ;) ), and his GAD (generalized anxiety disorder) has improved enough to reduce his medication. So we're pretty much down to just Asperger's stuff without all the comorbid fallout of pushing a human being beyond the breaking point on a daily basis. There are still a few quirks that lead the school psych and I to suspect a certain amount of post traumatic stress issues resulting from his school experience, but even those are improving with time. It is hard. No, it's HARD. But for us, at least, it's SOOO worth it! We're all a lot saner.

 

My daughter on the other hand.... hehehe She's like Monk's personality but on steroids!

 

I laughed so hard when I read this! When Monk first came out ds was at a stage with his sensory issues that I had my purse stocked with size XXS rubber gloves and lots and lots of individually wrapped moist wipes (because they could NOT be touching!). When I saw my first episode of Monk I laughed so hard I cried. It gave me hope that with the right type of personal assistant my son could grow up to be a productive citizen.

 

(P.S. There are two moms in my parent support group who each have an Aspie and a more severely autistic child, and they have both expressed the same opinion that you did that the Aspie is "harder" than the more profoundly affected child. I find this so interesting.)

[Ibbygirl]

I laughed so hard when I read this! When Monk first came out ds was at a stage with his sensory issues that I had my purse stocked with size XXS rubber gloves and lots and lots of individually wrapped moist wipes (because they could NOT be touching!). When I saw my first episode of Monk I laughed so hard I cried. It gave me hope that with the right type of personal assistant my son could grow up to be a productive citizen.

hehehe Yeah Monk's great! :) Every time I watch it my husband and I just look at each other with a knowing glance as to who he reminds us of. hehehe My daughter even has the little ticks. hehe

 

(P.S. There are two moms in my parent support group who each have an Aspie and a more severely autistic child, and they have both expressed the same opinion that you did that the Aspie is "harder" than the more profoundly affected child. I find this so interesting.)

 

Well, I can only speak for myself here, but in my situation, the biggest issues with my son are safety and potty training issues. He has his own world that he lives in and although he interacts with us and he likes to have cuddles with me and stories, he mostly just wants to be by himself and play alone.

 

My daughter is very much aware of her surroundings. She watches other people and other kids and wants to be like them, but she is lacking in the social skills to be able to communicate in all of the nuances and subtleties so that when it comes down to trying to participate, she usually gives off the wall answers or her ticks act up and kids in general just don't know what to do make of her. Some kids are kind and just humor her thinking that she's just got an off the wall sense of humor, but others are down right mean and cruel to her and it breaks my heart. I spend a great deal of time with her trying to educate her to read people's faces and not just take them at their words. I do social stories with her trying to equip her with more social skills and she is improving, but she still has a long way to go. Sometimes somebody will say something really snarky or mean spirited to her and she'll get a confused look on her face and ask, "Are you being sarcastic?" Bless her heart. She still can never tell for certain. I have really gained such an appreciation for the complexities of human communication verbal and non-verbal through watching her struggle through trying to navigate it all. She's a brave soul and keeps trying and I am very protective of her and am usually very close by to help her understand what someone is meaning when she struggles. Those things in addition to trying to homeschool her and deal with all of her behaviors make her much more of an investment in time and emotion than my son. He is a breeze compared to my daughter. :tongue_smilie::D

[Spy Car]

Asperger's Syndrome is a neurological condition and can affect anything related to the nervous system including cognitive and sensory functions. Nobody knows what causes it yet, and it manifests somewhat differently from person to person. It is considered by some to be on the "autism spectrum", and by others to be a separate disorder that has many similarities to autism. By definition, a person with Asperger's has an average to above average IQ (if it's lower, they get a different diagnosis). People with Asperger's Syndrome characteristically have deficits in social functioning, including odd and inappropriate behaviors, difficulty with non-verbal communication such as body language and facial expression, and can often have a hard time understanding non-literal language such as sarcasm, idioms and figures of speech. They can also have difficulty understanding the ebb and flow of conversation, tending to "lecture" rather than converse. (One nick-name for the syndrome is "little professor syndrome" because they're very smart and tend to speak pedantically.) They usually have very narrow, focused interests, often in unusual things (sometimes referred to as "obsessions" or "passions", depending on one's attitude about the condition). Often people with Asperger's also experience the world differently with their senses than most people around them (sensory integration disorder). Again, this differs from person to person, but an Aspie may have an aversion to (or conversely may crave) certain types or intensities of lights, colors, textures, touch, tastes, smells, sounds, and so forth, or may have difficulty sensing where their body is in space, making them fidgety and off balance. Many Aspies also have difficulties with changes in routine because they are already dealing with so much that a surprise can really throw them off their precarious mental balance. Aspies also often have comorbid conditions such as anxiety, depression, seizures, tics, OCD, ODD, PTSD, ADHD and others that can be diagnosed and treated separately, but which often go undiagnosed because they are just attributed to the AS.

 

We started homeschooling our Aspie when he was nine, and it's been the best thing EVER for him. He went to a public school with every support the very cooperative staff could offer him through third grade, and he was a MESS. He is now much healthier and better behaved (and no longer suicidal, which is always a plus). We have signed him up for one class at the junior high for next year to see how it goes, and we continue to take advantage of therapies and services offered through the public school system, but at this point we feel the best thing for him (and us) will be to keep him home for the duration. He's incredibly smart, but gets impatient with having to wait for other kids, and has real issues with other kids' anti-social behavior at school, in addition to having some sensory sensitivities that are constantly under fire in a typical classroom setting.

 

Thank you for not passing judgment about your friend's son's behavior. Behavior in an Aspie can be rather complicated to unsnarl, as sometimes "bad" behavior can be a reaction to a painful sensory stimulus, an overloaded nervous system, a "fight, flight, or freeze" response triggered by a social situation they perceive as threatening, or just developmentally delayed impulse control. Developmentally these kids can be all over the chart--it's not so much DELAYED development (though there ususally are delays in some areas) as it is UNEVEN development. For example, my 12 yo son tests out at a 22 yo level in some things and about a 5-7 yo level in others, and all of these can vary depending on whether he's hungry, tired, excited, calm, etc. It can be very confusing for the adults in the scenario when they're dealing with a 6 year old child who can multiply multi-digit numbers in his head and read at a high school level, but isn't yet potty-trained. We tend to think of skills developing more or less in a pattern so that if a child can do X, we should be able to also expect him to do Y, but with Aspies that all goes out the window and you just have to really get to know YOUR child's developmental pattern and roll with the punches. And sometimes "bad behavior" is just plain old bad behavior too, and the proper response is discipline. But discipline isn't going to help if the problem is sensory. If you take a child who is in pain, say from a too-bright light (which you don't notice, because your nervous system is not oversensitive) and beat him for being in pain, it really only makes things worse, if you see what I mean, and will probably escalate the behavior. And if he is really developmentally much younger than he is in some area, such as impulse control, then it's not really fair to expect him to be able to perform at the same level as other kids his age, and no amount of punishment will speed up the development process, and it may in fact impede it.

 

Aspies often come across as either the "angel" or the "demon" behavior-wise. This is because different people react differently to being overwhelmed, and Aspies spend a LOT of time feeling overwhelmed. The two most typical reactions for ANYONE who is overwhelmed, not just Aspies, are to either withdraw, or to fight back. The withdrawers get labeled as "good" because they tend to just sit there and be quiet, whereas the fighters get labeled as "bad" because they tend to pitch humongous, out of control fits (aka "meltdowns"). But generally both behaviors are indicative of neurological overwhelm, and it's best to help your child find a happy medium where they are cheerfully engaged in what is going on.

 

If your friend would like to talk with another homeschooling Aspie mom, PM me and I'll give you my email address to pass along.

 

HTH

 

Thank you for this post. Asperger's Syndrome has been on my mind recently as something I wanted to better understand, and this post helped me.

 

Bill

[MamaSheep]

hehehe Yeah Monk's great! :) Every time I watch it my husband and I just look at each other with a knowing glance as to who he reminds us of. hehehe My daughter even has the little ticks. hehe

 

Yeah, there was one episode where Monk gets something on his hands and he turns around, holding his hands out like they've been poisoned and says, "I have NATURE on my HANDS!" and looks like he's about to pass out, and I thought, this is SO my LIFE!!! Fortunately ds has gotten better and can actually just calmly go wash his hands in the nearest public restroom now if he encounters something he can't handle. But he's still always VERY careful to look before he touches anything, and I try to warn him in advance if there's anything sticky or that will leave a residue of any kind. And you might as well shoot him in the head as try to put lotion or a band-aid on any part of his skin.

 

 

 

Well, I can only speak for myself here, but in my situation, the biggest issues with my son are safety and potty training issues. He has his own world that he lives in and although he interacts with us and he likes to have cuddles with me and stories, he mostly just wants to be by himself and play alone.

 

My daughter is very much aware of her surroundings. She watches other people and other kids and wants to be like them, but she is lacking in the social skills to be able to communicate in all of the nuances and subtleties so that when it comes down to trying to participate, she usually gives off the wall answers or her ticks act up and kids in general just don't know what to do make of her. Some kids are kind and just humor her thinking that she's just got an off the wall sense of humor, but others are down right mean and cruel to her and it breaks my heart. I spend a great deal of time with her trying to educate her to read people's faces and not just take them at their words. I do social stories with her trying to equip her with more social skills and she is improving, but she still has a long way to go. Sometimes somebody will say something really snarky or mean spirited to her and she'll get a confused look on her face and ask, "Are you being sarcastic?" Bless her heart. She still can never tell for certain. I have really gained such an appreciation for the complexities of human communication verbal and non-verbal through watching her struggle through trying to navigate it all. She's a brave soul and keeps trying and I am very protective of her and am usually very close by to help her understand what someone is meaning when she struggles. Those things in addition to trying to homeschool her and deal with all of her behaviors make her much more of an investment in time and emotion than my son. He is a breeze compared to my daughter. :tongue_smilie::D

 

I hear you. My ds is getting pretty good at sarcasm and is having a grand old time playing with idioms lately and getting it right most of the time now. He's even able to hear an unfamiliar idiom, recognize it as such, and deduce the meaning by using the context to decode the symbolic meanings--most of the time. But facial expressions still baffle him. In fact, he has a great deal of difficulty with facial recognition at all, and half the time he's not really sure he's even talking to the same person he was talking to before, especially if he meets them out of context like a school person at the store, or a church person at the school. We met his Sunday School teacher of two years at the school one day and he had no idea who that woman was or why she was talking to him. It hurts to imagine myself in his world sometimes, because it must seem like such a dangerous, mysterious place. And yet he still wants to have friends and participate. It's just so much more of a challenge for him.

 

Thank you for this post. Asperger's Syndrome has been on my mind recently as something I wanted to better understand, and this post helped me.

 

Bill

 

I'm so glad you found my post helpful.

[Ibbygirl]

Yeah, there was one episode where Monk gets something on his hands and he turns around, holding his hands out like they've been poisoned and says, "I have NATURE on my HANDS!" and looks like he's about to pass out, and I thought, this is SO my LIFE!!! Fortunately ds has gotten better and can actually just calmly go wash his hands in the nearest public restroom now if he encounters something he can't handle. But he's still always VERY careful to look before he touches anything, and I try to warn him in advance if there's anything sticky or that will leave a residue of any kind. And you might as well shoot him in the head as try to put lotion or a band-aid on any part of his skin.

 

 

 

 

I hear you. My ds is getting pretty good at sarcasm and is having a grand old time playing with idioms lately and getting it right most of the time now. He's even able to hear an unfamiliar idiom, recognize it as such, and deduce the meaning by using the context to decode the symbolic meanings--most of the time. But facial expressions still baffle him. In fact, he has a great deal of difficulty with facial recognition at all, and half the time he's not really sure he's even talking to the same person he was talking to before, especially if he meets them out of context like a school person at the store, or a church person at the school. We met his Sunday School teacher of two years at the school one day and he had no idea who that woman was or why she was talking to him. It hurts to imagine myself in his world sometimes, because it must seem like such a dangerous, mysterious place. And yet he still wants to have friends and participate. It's just so much more of a challenge for him.

 

It sounds like our two kiddos have a lot of similar issues. :)

[AuntPol]

Here is the issues we have with our Aspie:

 

Anything new (movie, book, sport, food, activity, anything) is rejected and I have to just plug on and then he will end up loving it.

 

100 gazillion questions a day -usually about weapons and military which is the area that he hyperfocuses on. It doesn't matter to him if it is not a socially appropriate place to discuss weapons or that I or the person he is talking to doesn't give a flying flip about it.

 

Very literal. Doesn't get sarcasm easily. Doesn't get social "rules". Will tell the same joke, story, funny movie quote a 100 times in a day because you laughed at it the first time, therefore it must be good. Can't fathom that it loses it's punch with repetition.

 

Can't keep hands to himself.

 

Makes annoying noises all the time. Right now, his thing is to sing Iron Man. All day, all the time. When you try to explain that it is socially inappropriate, he continues at a softer level (unless you tell him an authoritative way and then he will get louder).

 

Has a very strong sense of right and wrong. It's black or white. Nothing is grey. He has very strong sense of justice and if he feels he is being treated unjust, he gets mad and flees and hides. Example -he does not do well at Awanas or Kids night out that does group games because inevitably a kid will treat and inevitably, the grown ups in charge will blow it off/ignore and inevitably, DS will get mad and either throw something, push someone, or run and hide somewhere and I get the call and told how "bad" he is. This right here is the most frustrating part of his Aspergers for me.

 

He does not do well with authoritative adults. Spankings do not work with this child. Most negative punishments do not work with him, even taking away his beloved computer. He has spent the entire day in his room with every toy, book, etc taken out and it did not effect him the least.

 

No matter what I tell him not to do. He will do it/say it one more time just to aggravate me or his dad, even when the consequence is severe. If I tell his sister not to do something that she is doing that he wasn't doing, he will immediately do it. If I tell him that he can not grab or hit, he will poke because I didn't say poke.

 

Can not clean anything. His executive function skills are very weak. I can not say "go clean your room:. I can't say go make your bed, pick up your toys, and sweep. I have to give one direction at a time and stand there because he won't come back and ask me what to do next lol. So it's pick up trucks and put them in truck bin (can't just say "pick up trucks" ). Then AFTER he does that, I can then say, pick up blocks and put them in block box.

[LG Gone Wild]

Hmm.. not sure what to say really. It's a traditional high school program that offers an accredited diploma. They require 21 credits to graduate. My daughter transferred 12 in from public high school and is taking the other 9 with Keystone. Our biggest mistake was enrolling her in 6 courses at one time. We thought she could handle it because that is what she did in public high school. But it was very overwhelming and since she didn't know how to homeschool, it has really been a tough year. At the end of the school year, she's only gotten a half-credit in science and a half-credit in government. She should have 6 full credits. *sigh* She's on track now though, although she won't graduate early like she originally anticipated.

 

It's a good program. The website is slow sometimes which drives her batty. They offer correspondence and online courses. She tried the correspondence courses but they were too hard for her to pace. They don't offer a suggested schedule. However, they do offer a schedule with the online courses. We switched all her courses to online because of that. Of course it was extra money.

 

The turnaround for graded papers with the correspondence courses seemed a little long for me. I expect a turnaround of 2 weeks but it seemed like double that most of the time. The online classes are much quicker.

 

We do plan on using Keystone for our other 2 children. I would like to use Chlonlara for my ds12, but my DH thinks he can handle Keystone. The school requires a lot of writing. There are many long answer questions in journals, quizzes and exams. Some subjects have papers assigned. My son has Aspergers and I'm worried the amount of writing will overwhelm him. But my DH is in charge of the decision. Now we just have to decide when to put our son in Keystone classes.

 

I had heard of it from a teenager who does it. She is in an uber high level of sports and homeschools through Keystone. She complained that it was expensive (she has to pay for it). It made me curious. Ds is only 10 but I was thinking ahead.

[Night Elf]

I had heard of it from a teenager who does it. She is in an uber high level of sports and homeschools through Keystone. She complained that it was expensive (she has to pay for it). It made me curious. Ds is only 10 but I was thinking ahead.

 

Yeah, it's definitely more expensive than K12 which is what my younger two children are using. I think we paid about $2500 for one year of classes.

[MamaSheep]

Here is the issues we have with our Aspie:

 

I'm going to do a very bad thing here and make an assumption that you've shared these experiences in order to get feedback. If this is the wrong assumption, please just ignore everything I say here and write me off as a well-intentioned friend. I hate unsolicited advice, and I don't want to butt in and interfere where my input is not wanted, but I also know that sometimes bouncing our "issues" off other Aspie moms has helped me see things in new ways before, and even if I didn't find their suggestions helpful in our situation, a new perspective has often helped me find some other solution that did work. So here are some thoughts on what you shared in the hopes that you'll take from it what helps and toss out what doesn't, and take it all in the spirit of friendship in which it is intended.

 

Anything new (movie, book, sport, food, activity, anything) is rejected and I have to just plug on and then he will end up loving it.

 

100 gazillion questions a day -usually about weapons and military which is the area that he hyperfocuses on. It doesn't matter to him if it is not a socially appropriate place to discuss weapons or that I or the person he is talking to doesn't give a flying flip about it.

 

Very literal. Doesn't get sarcasm easily. Doesn't get social "rules". Will tell the same joke, story, funny movie quote a 100 times in a day because you laughed at it the first time, therefore it must be good. Can't fathom that it loses it's punch with repetition.

 

 

Yeah, this is all classic Asperger's stuff. My son gives me intricate play by play walkthroughs of all his video games--his current fixation. It's annoying, but not as bad as being incessantly quizzed on cricket anatomy and species, which was the one before this. At least video games are something that other kids his age can relate to, if not with quite the same depth of interest. This past year he's practically memorized a joke book. He finally caught on to the notion that humor should be related to the topic of conversation (yay!) and will often say, "that reminds me of this joke I read...[insert joke here]," which is SO much better than being told the same joke a minimum of 12 times a day. But I know what that's like.

 

Sometimes it helps me to remember that this is just the kind of "animal" I've got, and if what I've got is a cat it's not helpful for me to expect dog behavior out of it. I do sometimes have to just send him in the other room for a while to give my ears a break, though. We had a chat about this a while back in which I told him that MY nervous system can only take so much talking in any given period of time and sometimes I can listen much better if I've had a break from his voice for a while. I can now say, "I need you to not talk for five minutes," and he won't. He watches the clock, and the MOMENT 5 minutes are up, the verbal spigot is full blast again (very literal), but it's progress. Maybe we'll work on him holding it in for 10 minutes at a time next.

 

Can't keep hands to himself.

 

This is probably that whole immature impulse control bit. You can understand it in a 10 month old who HAS to grab everything and shove it in their mouth just because it's there, but it's harder to tolerate in an older child. Sometimes it helps to give ds something else to do with his hands, like a sqeeze ball, or just keeping his hands in his pockets. But grabbiness can definitely be a developmental delay. If discipline doesn't get rid of the behavior it often means the child is not actually able to perform the behavior you're looking for, just like an infant is not able to do things that are developmentally too advanced for their age. Again, it's weird to think of in a child who can do other things that are more developmentally advanced, but with Asperger's the developmental levels can be incredibly wonky. A child who can read at a college level or program computers might really, truly not be able to stop himself from touching whatever shiny thing comes into reach because the reading/programming and the impulse control are different skills and can be at different developmental levels. Weird, I know.

 

Makes annoying noises all the time. Right now, his thing is to sing Iron Man. All day, all the time. When you try to explain that it is socially inappropriate, he continues at a softer level (unless you tell him an authoritative way and then he will get louder).

 

My son sings the theme song from the end of the video game "Portal". What is it with the singing? Also random "sound effect" type noises of one kind or another--explosions, beeps, exclamations, words he just likes the sound of (ex. "chinchilla" and "pistachio"). I have found that giving him a music player of some kind with headphones cuts down on this a lot. I'm thinking maybe he has a need for more auditory stimulation and meets it by making noises, but if I fill it with something that works better for me, then he doesn't have to find a way to meet the need himself. Like he just doesn't feel "right" without a certain level of sound input. Kind of like when you get novacained at the dentist it's hard to leave your cheek or lip alone and you kind of poke at it and pinch it periodically just to try to feel SOMETHING because it doesn't feel right to have so little sensory feedback from that part of your body, and even though it might kind of hurt a little when it wears off, it also feels good to FEEL again.

 

Has a very strong sense of right and wrong. It's black or white. Nothing is grey. He has very strong sense of justice and if he feels he is being treated unjust, he gets mad and flees and hides. Example -he does not do well at Awanas or Kids night out that does group games because inevitably a kid will treat and inevitably, the grown ups in charge will blow it off/ignore and inevitably, DS will get mad and either throw something, push someone, or run and hide somewhere and I get the call and told how "bad" he is. This right here is the most frustrating part of his Aspergers for me.

 

 

We have this problem too. I haven't figured out a solution at all. Part of the problem is that the grown-ups don't seem to realize that they're blowing anything off. It doesn't register that the one boy stole the other boy's pen, and then the second boy stole the first boy's pen in return--they've both got pens, and they don't seem to care whose was whose originally, so what's the big deal? No, it's MY kid pitching a fit about it that's the problem. They don't "get" that having authority figures who don't enforce even the most basic human rights in the group (from my son's perspective), like the right to one's personal space and property, makes my son feel unsafe and like SOMEBODY should do something about it and if the adult authority figures won't then maybe he should. And if they make rules, like you should raise your hand before you talk, and then they don't enforce the rules, then they undermine their status as an authority figure in my son's eyes. If the authority figures don't follow their own rules then they don't HAVE any authority as far as my son is concerned. It's definitely a problem.

 

(Continued in another post because I got too wordy. Please don't shoot me!)

[MamaSheep]

He does not do well with authoritative adults. Spankings do not work with this child. Most negative punishments do not work with him, even taking away his beloved computer. He has spent the entire day in his room with every toy, book, etc taken out and it did not effect him the least.

 

Spanking never did a darn thing for my son. Except possibly make him less likely to listen to me in the future because I was just a mean, violent, illogical person anyway. I'm not actually big on spanking anyway, but when you have a child that out of control you get desperate and will try just about anything. Negative consequences are only just now beginning to make sense to him (he's 12), and they have to be very closely related to whatever the misbehavior was or he doesn't make the connection between the bad behavior and the consequence. On the other hand, rewards for good behavior have always made sense to him. It's weird. He can't see a punishment as a result of his behavior, but he can see a reward as a product of his behavior. I have no idea why that is, but we are dealing with a neurological thing here so I suppose it shouldn't surprise me when his brain functions in ways that don't make sense to me. This is one of those things where I've decided I don't have to understand it, I just have to accept that this is the way things are, and find ways to operate in this version of reality. The most effective "discipline" for ds has always been to mostly overlook "bad" behavior (except move him if he's a danger to himself or others) and then THE MOMENT he starts doing something good instead, or even a reasonably close approximation of something good, POUNCE on him with lots of positive feedback--praise, attention, a sticker, whatever trips his trigger that week. It does often help, especially as he gets older, to CALMLY explain to him why something he's doing will bother other people, or is bad for the furniture, or whatever, just as an explanation--he doesn't WANT to be destructive or unkind. But punishing him for it doesn't really seem to make an impact as much as a very clear explanation as to why NOT to do the "bad" thing, and then a reward for being "good" along with a very clear statement of what it was he was doing right and why it was a good thing ("I really liked how you helped your sister with the computer, that was very kind."). It's weird, and it seems backwards in many ways, but it WORKS--it reduces bad behavior and increases desirable behavior, which is really what I'm after with "discipline" anyway. I don't know that this is the answer for every child, but it sure has worked wonders with ds. (Dd is a whole other story...lol.)

 

No matter what I tell him not to do. He will do it/say it one more time just to aggravate me or his dad, even when the consequence is severe. If I tell his sister not to do something that she is doing that he wasn't doing, he will immediately do it. If I tell him that he can not grab or hit, he will poke because I didn't say poke.

 

This may be another manifestation of the impulse control issue. Interestingly, from my own observations and conversations with other moms, it seems like Aspies very, very rarely do things with the intent of annoying, aggravating, or hurting someone else's feelings. Don't get me wrong, they can definitely be VERY annoying, aggravaing, and hurtful--it's just that they don't often do it intentionally. The thing is, the ability to intentionally aggravate someone takes a level of social skills development that most Aspies just don't have. Just like they don't "get" what makes people happy with them, or makes them fit in socially, they also don't "get" what is socially inappropriate or irritating. They don't understand what makes people tick well enough to intentionally make people love them or hate them. They just do the first thing that pops in their head. And most of the reactions they get from other people don't really make a lot of sense to them. They may not even connect the reaction they get from others with whatever it was they did unless someone specifically explains it to them. (I find myself "explaining the obvious" on a regular basis around here...lol. It's annoying, but it helps.)

 

Can not clean anything. His executive function skills are very weak. I can not say "go clean your room:. I can't say go make your bed, pick up your toys, and sweep. I have to give one direction at a time and stand there because he won't come back and ask me what to do next lol. So it's pick up trucks and put them in truck bin (can't just say "pick up trucks" ). Then AFTER he does that, I can then say, pick up blocks and put them in block box.

 

Yep. I find that lists help (I used to have a laminated "how to take a bath" card on the shelf by the tub with step-by-step instructions so I didn't have to stand there and say "now rub the soap on your legs"). But I'm still trying to figure out the cleaning up thing. I try to keep as little stuff as possible in his room, because there is no way that whatever's in there is going to be tidy and the less stuff there is the less chaos can result.

 

I hope something in here might be useful to you. If not, feel free to print out this post and throw darts at it or whatever. Hang in there, I think it does actually tend to get better as they get older. I don't think ds will ever be what one would call "normal", especially socially, but he has gotten SO much better over the years since he was diagnosed (at age 5). He's not growing up the same way other kids do, but he IS growing up, which is more than can be said for some kinds of disabilities. If nothing else, know you're not alone in occasionally wanting to sell your child to the nearest gypsy and get really, really drunk (and I don't even drink)...lol. It's a battle sometimes, but those little victories ARE worth it. :grouphug:

Edited May 29, 2009 by MamaSheep

[Ibbygirl]

Isn't Autism fun? hehehe LOL I'm not trying to be offensive or to say anything off-color, but as one who is living with this day in and day out, I know that sometimes you have to just sit back and laugh. These kids are NUTS!! hehehehe :D ;)

[MamaSheep]

Isn't Autism fun? hehehe LOL I'm not trying to be offensive or to say anything off-color, but as one who is living with this day in and day out, I know that sometimes you have to just sit back and laugh. These kids are NUTS!! hehehehe :D ;)

 

Yeah baby! They're nuts to us, we're nuts to them, and it makes life SO much more interesting than it would be if we were all ordinary!

[kat19]

Some of this sounds like my son.

I have talked with our teacher about him and now I'm gonna be making an appointment for the doctor.

I guess in order for any testing, I have to have a note from the doctor.

[Ibbygirl]

Yeah baby! They're nuts to us, we're nuts to them, and it makes life SO much more interesting than it would be if we were all ordinary!

 

 

heheheh a big AMEN to that. My kids are tough to be sure. I think parents of typical kids could never even dream of the kinds of stuff we have to deal with day in and day out, but you know, I love my kids to death and I cannot imagine my life without them. They have taught me so much about myself and the things I need to change and I am a much better person because of them. If I had to make the choice between having them in my life with all of their issues and compulsions or not having them at all, I would choose them every time. They're great and I love them so much. But sometimes I just have to sit back and laugh because it can get all so ovewhelming and ridiculous sometimes. When I read all the posters stories of their own special ones, I can relate so much and I'm glad to know that I'm not alone. :)

 

:grouphug: God bless all of you ladies who are raising special kids! :grouphug:

[Carrie12345]

Some of this sounds like my son.

I have talked with our teacher about him and now I'm gonna be making an appointment for the doctor.

I guess in order for any testing, I have to have a note from the doctor.

 

Keep in mind, school employees can NOT make a medical diagnosis. That can ONLY be done by a doctor (or doctors). They can test him for services and decide whether or not he qualifies, but it is illegal for them to present a diagnosis.

[Ibbygirl]

Some of this sounds like my son.

I have talked with our teacher about him and now I'm gonna be making an appointment for the doctor.

I guess in order for any testing, I have to have a note from the doctor.

 

 

I don't know how your insurance is if you'll need to have a referral or not, but you're best off going to a pediatric neurologist or a pediatric psychologist for a diagnosis. In my case, my pediatrician recongnized that my children weren't developing "typically" and she suspected Autism, but she gave me a referral to the neurologist for an evaluation and diagnosis. If you can go directly to the neurologist without having to have a referral from the pediatrician you can probably save yourself a few dollars by not having to pay the extra co-pay.:)

[kat19]

Keep in mind, school employees can NOT make a medical diagnosis. That can ONLY be done by a doctor (or doctors). They can test him for services and decide whether or not he qualifies, but it is illegal for them to present a diagnosis.

 

Yes, I know.. I have told her my concerns about him, not really talked about him being diagnosed with anything. Just I want to know if there is a better way to school him and she only tells me her opinion.

 

Thanks.

[kat19]

I don't know how your insurance is if you'll need to have a referral or not, but you're best off going to a pediatric neurologist or a pediatric psychologist for a diagnosis. In my case, my pediatrician recongnized that my children weren't developing "typically" and she suspected Autism, but she gave me a referral to the neurologist for an evaluation and diagnosis. If you can go directly to the neurologist without having to have a referral from the pediatrician you can probably save yourself a few dollars by not having to pay the extra co-pay.:)

 

Thanks, I will check into it.

[Ibbygirl]

Thanks, I will check into it.

 

 

My pleasure! Best of luck to you. :) If your son does turn out to be an Aspie, be assured you're not alone. :) I'm sure that I speak for all of us when I say that you can always come here and hang out with the rest of us and we'll be happy to give you a shoulder to cry on and a listening ear when you need to vent or have questions. God bless you and your precious family. :) :grouphug:

[LG Gone Wild]

Some of this sounds like my son.

I have talked with our teacher about him and now I'm gonna be making an appointment for the doctor.

I guess in order for any testing, I have to have a note from the doctor.

 

We are kind of in the same boat. I have a ADHD consult for ds next week. I had already made it before I started this thread. My dh has been joking (half way serious though) for years, "Medicate that boy or medicate me!"

[Spy Car]

Are there ways that are particularly effective in teaching high-functioning children with Asperger's Syndrome?

 

Or do individual differences just make it too hard to generalize?

 

Bill

Edited May 30, 2009 by Spy Car

[Ibbygirl]

Are there ways that are particularly effective in teaching high-functioning children with Asperger's Syndrome?

 

Or do individual differences just make it to hard to generalize?

 

Bill

 

I would say that individual differences make it hard to generalize a specific method. Although the Aspie kids have a lot of things in common, they may manifest differently for each child. A lot of Aspie's also have accompanying problems like ADHD or OCD also which complicates things all the more. Sensory issues, hyperfocusing on certain things for example.

 

For myself, I take my daughters strengths and weaknesses into account and play to her strenghts and try to develop strategies to improve her weaknesses. For example, she is really strong in language and reading so we tend to have a lot of discussions when having school I also use "social stories" (books that develop social skills) with my daughter since she is so fond of reading. I look at the specific areas that she's stuggling with and choose one topic and write a story about that. I wrote one for example called "What people say and what people mean" to help her be aware of and read body language and facial expressions. I had a speech bubble and a separate thought bubble for each of the characters so that she could see that sometimes people say what they mean, but other times they don't and you have to look at their facial expressions and body languages for clues. I also have to work around her OCD and create schedules and lists for her to check off. It helps calm her allows her to feel in control and to know what is coming next. I also use a reward system to encourage her to do the tasks that she doesn't like. Those are just some of the strategies I have developed in teaching her over the years that work for us. :)

[Mom22ns]

Are there ways that are particularly effective in teaching high-functioning children with Asperger's Syndrome?

 

Or do individual differences just make it too hard to generalize?

 

Bill

 

I think there are a couple of things that all aspie's have in common that can be taken advantage of in their learning. One is that they are intelligent. Using information, logic and reasoning to work past their sometimes irrational behaviors can really go a long way with most of these kids. The other is that they are obsessive. They always have a passion about something. If you involve this in their learning as much as possible, it can be a tool. For example, let them research and write about their passion. Have them read about a person who is historically important in that field.

 

Frequently, kids on the autistic spectrum, including aspies are visual not auditory learners. However, as mentioned, add/adhd also frequently coexist, so picking materials that kids can learn from visually without being visually overstimulating is important. There is a higher than normal instance of visual spacial learners in the high functioning autistic spectrum (kids on the spectrum with high IQs). These high functioning kids are also quite frequently obsessive readers and learn quite well from books. Using whole books and good and great book curriculums fit them well. That makes CM and WTM approaches a good basic fit.

 

These are generalities and there are lots of exceptions. There are aspies who are auditory learners and ASD kids where dyslexia is a coexisting condition. However, these are some of the best starting recommendations that I know of. The best thing about homeschooling for most of these kids is that their pace will be very fast in some areas and slow in others. They can have a very individualized curriculum with all the personal attention that they need homeschooling. That just doesn't happen in a classroom setting.

[Carrie12345]

Are there ways that are particularly effective in teaching high-functioning children with Asperger's Syndrome?

 

Or do individual differences just make it too hard to generalize?

 

Bill

 

While it's hard to generalize, I firmly believe that the trivium is an excellent method of educating aspies. I've thought that since first reading TWTM, but listening to SWB's "The Joy of Classical Education" (89 cents on Amazon!) really cemented things for me.

 

Generally, aspies are stuck in the grammar stage. Mine (turning 11 this summer) can recite facts and figures like a computer. He can regurgitate just about anything he reads. *Sometimes* he can put the information into his own words, but not often.

 

Depending on the type and extent of each individuals' issues, I do believe that some (maybe even many) of their neurological "glitches" can be worked around. Like others have said, idioms and sarcasm can often be taught. They'll never take the typical pathways through the brain, but direct instruction can build bridges over the gaps, getting them from point A to point B, despite the lack of intutive understanding.

 

The way classical education is set up, combined with the resources SWB suggests, students receive direct instruction in logic and rhetoric. They're given the step-by-step instructions for thought processing.

Even neurotypicals are usually lacking that teaching, left to rely on intuitive understanding, leaving brains scrambling to make the proper connections. The direct instruction gives a more direct path from point A to point B, bypassing the intuition that often leads us all astray anyway.

 

Obviously, this is just my theory. My aspie is just completing the 5th grade, with a public school curriculum (which we supplement as time allows). But resources like Mind Benders and Building Thinking Skills have been invaluable to us, and I truly believe that a full classical education would/will bring marked improvements.

 

The most difficult parts of ps curriculum for ds are the "why" questions. Why do you think the boy did this? Why do you think the author wrote this? Why did this happen? In ds's head, it's all simply because that's what it says on the page. And SWB addresses this issue in the workshop. Grammar stage kids just DON'T KNOW. And aspies are very grammar staged kids!

 

Now I'm kind of rambling. But, hey, I haven't been trained in rhetoric!

[AuntPol]

My son is an auditory learner and learns best by me reading to him while he builds with legos or plays video games with sound off. If he's doing something else, he can answer any question you ask and narrate fully with detail. If you make him sit quietly at a desk while you read, he will have no clue.

 

You better know your subject, because he is going to ask question after question after question.

 

My Aspie is hates writing. It's hard for him to organize his thoughts and painful for him to hold a pencil. He can not write as fast as he can think. He also is not good on indiscriminate story starters. For example, "Last time I stayed up all night, I....". Well he's never stayed up all night, so this is an illogical story in his opinion and will be extremely frustrated if given this topic.

 

He does well with having assignments typed out with a box to check off when complete, a consistent schedule w/writing last (if it's first, the day is ruined and nothing will get done), the ability to type or narrate everything other than copywork. He needs high protein meals, low sugar (but caffeine helps), lots of ability to move and get sensory input, positive reinforcement (negative does not work at all with him but positive does), reminders to stay on task, and one on one work in navigating social complexities.