Back from the family cookout, with a question....

[Sahamamama]

... about "junior high" -- is it necessary or is it redundant (the way it's traditionally done in public schools), and what's the point? Are these middle grades (6th, 7th, 8th) just "warehousing" years for students?

 

My sister's two sons are almost 12 and almost 14 -- summer birthday boys -- and are finishing up 6th and 8th grades next month. They struggled with school this year more than usual, although the 6th grader did have what was considered a "good year" (for him). But he kept saying he was bored. The 8th grader started out his school years at the top of his class, but seemed to go downhill when he was half-way through 6th grade.

 

So we were wondering: Are there any former/current middle school teachers out there who could shed some light on this stage? Does the curriculum really cover new material, or do students begin to feel like, "Oh, this again?" Is the material too challenging? Is the material NOT challenging enough?

 

We thought that children this age want and need to see the Big Picture -- the layout -- of what they are learning and will be expected to learn for a few years in a row. And they want to know WHY it's important to learn it. Public schools rarely do this, but instead have students simply "take classes" -- without understanding how it all fits together into the larger whole of learning.

 

We also wondered about acceleration in these years -- if a graduating 5th grader is strong in basic subjects, is the content of 6th & 7th redundant? What gets covered in a PS in these years that could be skipped without losing anything except the boredom?

 

I know I've read something somewhere ;) about 6th & 7th grades (and 8th to some extent) being "wasted" years, academically, but I can't find the links now, of course.

 

:001_smile:

Edited May 25, 2009 by Sahamamama

[gardening momma]

I can't speak for public school, but at the private school I went to, I remember taking geography in 7th grade, and I also remember the spelling/vocabulary class I took that year. That was the only year I had geography, and the spelling/vocabulary curriculum taught me a lot about prefixes, suffixes, and root words--again, not repeated in the following years. So it wasn't the same thing again, it was worthwhile stuff.

[Impish]

For me, jr high was grade 7 and 8. Here, there are public schools that go from k - 9. Or k-6. It seems to be based solely on where you are as to if there is a separate jr high at all, and which grades it encompasses. I remember it as being a continuation of what I'd been taught, no repitition.

[gardening momma]

I don't think it matters what it's called (it's called middle school here, grades 6-8). It matters what is taught. And problems with what is taught can happen in any grade. So no, I don't think junior high is a waste, or unnecessary. I think those are two years that are just as important as any other two years. What counts is what they're learning.

[myfunnybunch]

Your questions remind me of something my oldest dd's middle school principal said, at an open house for parents of rising 6th graders, no less. He said that middle school students don't progress much academically, that these years are mostly about social development and dealing with mental and emotional changes.

 

Whaaaaa?? Was my reaction.

 

We pulled our oldest out after 6th grade, partly because she was not being challenged or educated.

 

I understand that middle school ages are a time when children go through enormous social, emotional and mental changes. But it was as though instead of taking advantage of new ways of seeing the world, the school had thrown up their hands and given up, completely writting off the amazing development that middle school students experience. It's a cop-put, IMO.

 

Since most students cannot escape middle school, I'd love to see some innovative ideas put in place to educate these ages. Something that takes advantage of their passion and curiousity and drive to find their place in the world, instead of essentially warehousing them until they're in high school.

 

Cat

[Sahamamama]

Your questions remind me of something my oldest dd's middle school principal said, at an open house for parents of rising 6th graders, no less. He said that middle school students don't progress much academically, that these years are mostly about social development and dealing with mental and emotional changes.

 

Yes, that's what I'm talking about. I know I've read this type of statement somewhere -- that it's common practice/knowledge that 6th, 7th, & 8th grades are not rigorous, academically challenging years, but more about social/emotional development. I'll try to find some links to what I've read.....

[Danestress]

pretty rigorously in those years. I would actually consider them some of his best years in terms of academics. I remember when he was in 7th grade he was doing surprisingly well in school (since I always felt he was a slacker). When I asked his teachers to show me what he was doing, honestly, I was impressed. It gave me some serious fear about whether I was up for homeschooling the younger kids on the same level, especially in science.

 

BUt I can see why some people might think of these years as being about social/emotional development. They are years when kids brains are undergoing significant changes. As I start preparing for the "Middle years" with my rising 6th graders, a lot of people have advised me to review review review in areas of math, science and Latin because their brains are sort of haywire and need the repetition. I will admit that my boys are seeming sort of mentally at loose ends lately. They can learn something and review it and then a week later, I swear it's like they've never HEARD of that before. And my boys are really cooperative, so I think they come on this honestly.

[DawnM]

Yes, that is the prevailing theory. For many years we went to conference after conference about a concept called "Caught in the Middle." Middle schoolers were caught between elem. and high schools and our goal was to boost self esteem, hope they at least retain what they learned in elem. school, and hope they can listen long enough to maybe learn something new.

 

More recently the mantra is "academic rigor" but I haven't seen anything change academically other than NCLB mandating that certain concepts are focused on more than others.

 

Dawn

 

Your questions remind me of something my oldest dd's middle school principal said, at an open house for parents of rising 6th graders, no less. He said that middle school students don't progress much academically, that these years are mostly about social development and dealing with mental and emotional changes.

 

Whaaaaa?? Was my reaction.

 

We pulled our oldest out after 6th grade, partly because she was not being challenged or educated.

 

I understand that middle school ages are a time when children go through enormous social, emotional and mental changes. But it was as though instead of taking advantage of new ways of seeing the world, the school had thrown up their hands and given up, completely writting off the amazing development that middle school students experience. It's a cop-put, IMO.

 

Since most students cannot escape middle school, I'd love to see some innovative ideas put in place to educate these ages. Something that takes advantage of their passion and curiousity and drive to find their place in the world, instead of essentially warehousing them until they're in high school.

 

Cat

[Julie in Austin]

Former junior high teacher here.

 

My understanding is that when the current curriculum arrangement was being set up, the prevailing psychological theory was that 6th-8th graders were in a time of sexual and developmental latency and therefore not capable of learning new things. So the curriculum was designed accordingly.

 

There's been some changes to that over the years, such as introducing algebra to 8th grade and some other things, depending on where you live.

[elizabeth]

Your questions remind me of something my oldest dd's middle school principal said, at an open house for parents of rising 6th graders, no less. He said that middle school students don't progress much academically, that these years are mostly about social development and dealing with mental and emotional changes.

 

Whaaaaa?? Was my reaction.

 

We pulled our oldest out after 6th grade, partly because she was not being challenged or educated.

 

I understand that middle school ages are a time when children go through enormous social, emotional and mental changes. But it was as though instead of taking advantage of new ways of seeing the world, the school had thrown up their hands and given up, completely writting off the amazing development that middle school students experience. It's a cop-put, IMO.

 

Since most students cannot escape middle school, I'd love to see some innovative ideas put in place to educate these ages. Something that takes advantage of their passion and curiousity and drive to find their place in the world, instead of essentially warehousing them until they're in high school.

 

Cat

I have heard all the same from school teachers, administrators and several school board members who bemoan the lack of classes for the accelerated learner. Many young people stumble into trouble during these years simply out of boredom. Ask me how I know??! It should be a time of catching up for those who need it with interesting electives in the areas of interest including but not limited to languages, sociology, cultural anthropology , philosophy for just a few examples of what could be. This is precisely what I am doing not to slow dd down but to expand her horizons and build on the very solid foundation created during grade school. Generally middle school is an academic wasteland and socially / emotionally

destructive to becoming a well adjusted human being. Lord of the Flies holding its place for decades as a popular book that many young teens relate to is no accident. I happen to think it is brilliant and well written . It is not a stretch to imagine it as a non fiction work.

Edited May 25, 2009 by elizabeth
spacing I cannot type...

[saw]

My dds are in seventh grade, which here is the start of six years of secondary school. They seem to have learned a lot this year. They're taking Dutch, English, Latin (with a Roman culture class as well), French, a bit of Greek, geography, history, math, gym, drama, drawing, music, industrial arts, and science. Where we are seventh grade is when school gets real; elementary school was nearly a complete waste of time.

[Sahamamama]

My dds are in seventh grade, which here is the start of six years of secondary school. They seem to have learned a lot this year. They're taking Dutch, English, Latin (with a Roman culture class as well), French, a bit of Greek, geography, history, math, gym, drama, drawing, music, industrial arts, and science. Where we are seventh grade is when school gets real; elementary school was nearly a complete waste of time.

 

Wow, that certainly sounds challenging! Where is "here" for you? (Even just naming a continent will help!). :001_smile:

[Sahamamama]

Yes, that is the prevailing theory. For many years we went to conference after conference about a concept called "Caught in the Middle." Middle schoolers were caught between elem. and high schools and our goal was to boost self esteem, hope they at least retain what they learned in elem. school, and hope they can listen long enough to maybe learn something new.

 

Dawn

 

Thanks, Dawn. I'll try to research this "Caught in the Middle" aspect of 6th-8th grades. Very interesting..... :auto:

[EKS]

I heard a middle school principal say that during the middle school years something happens to kids' brains and they have to relearn everything about organization. That's why they focus so heavily on planners and notes and such. I guess the academics get lost in the shuffle.

[Sahamamama]

I heard a middle school principal say that during the middle school years something happens to kids' brains and they have to relearn everything about organization. That's why they focus so heavily on planners and notes and such. I guess the academics get lost in the shuffle.

 

 

It could be that part of the reason for whatever "training in organization" that public schools actually do is to prepare students for high school, college, and beyond. My sister said that her 6th grader's Child Study Team (he's ADD) told her to "forget the spelling and writing with him and focus on organization." She just feels that there is little content, beyond what they should have learned in elementary school. Sigh.

[lauracolumbus]

I vaguely recall reading that Maria Montessori suggested that middle schoolers (I think 7th graders specifically) take the year off and work on the farm b/c it was impossible to teach them w/all their hormonal issues. I could be wrong though...

 

Laura

[lgm]

... about "junior high" -- is it necessary or is it redundant (the way it's traditionally done in public schools), and what's the point? Are these middle grades (6th, 7th, 8th) just "warehousing" years for students?

 

 

------------------------------------------------------------------

 

No jr highs here....it's all 6-8 or 7-8 and called middle school. High schools are all 9-12.

 

Warehousing - no. Catchup - yes. It seems to be a place to make up for the deficiencies of the elementaries in the core academics. My district runs double period math and language arts classes for those not classified and not on grade level. Students who test in the 8th and 9th stanines on IQ and have the acheivement and teacher pleasing behavior to go with it accelerate a year in math beginning in 7th and go into honors SS and LA (again beginnnig in 7th) in order to boost their composition skills and provide vocab instruction. The biggest problems are the smart kids (stanine 7,8,9 ) who can't get into honors...they get very turned off when they lose that peer group they've always been with. The way the district schedules, they will get no chance to intellectually challenge themselves until AP courses start in 10th grade. ..and that's IF they can get the teacher recommendation and maintain an 95 or better in the preceding courses and be in the top 15% on the state test for the subject. (basically private tutoring has to be done to get them to that level academically).

 

Other districts nearby , though, run different levels of courses and do have open admission to honors and accelerated levels (criteria is 90 or above in prior level, no teacher rec required) so a student can mature and begin to challenge themselves. It really depends on the district and their philosophy.