Testing the chronically sloooooow child

[WTMCassandra]

I have a child who is well-known for NOT being speedy. We have worked and worked with him, yet he does not seem to be improving, even though he is now 10.

 

He just bombed the CAT/5 Math Computation section today. Out of 20 problems, he skipped two and then didn't have time for five. That means he only did 13! I don't have a real problem with him skipping the two problems, because that was what I had suggested if he thought something was too hard--skip it and come back to it. But that on TOP of the FIVE problems he didn't have time for makes me really frustrated.

 

We talked before the test about working speedily on that section. He has trouble with this section every year (not having time to finish), but honestly, this is the worst he's ever done.

 

We have talked. We have done test prep books. We have done timed drills (for MONTHS). We have done all of the above for YEARS.

 

No improvement.

 

Yes, this child is slow in all other areas of life too. We have always said he has two speeds--slow and stop. Yet, he is very, very smart, and has no learning disabilities. He would not qualify for testing accommodations, yet I can see this really hurting him in the tests that "matter" in high school.

 

Anyone BTDT? Anyone have a success story of a child who improved later? Anyone have any suggestions on what I can do (short of making him do timed math drills every day for the rest of his life)?

 

Sigh.

[amy g.]

Well, my slow child has learning disabilities too. Have you had his processing speed tested? He might qualify for modifications in that area.

 

One thing, that has been working for my slow one is only doing two subjects at a time. This past school year, she took Worldview I and Spanish, earning high As in both classes. This summer she will do intensive Math and Science.

 

She just can't keep up with more than that. Maybe something like that would help.

[joannqn]

Honestly, since I plan on homeschooling all the way through, I'd just give him the accommodation and let him finish the test. The goal, for me, is to find out if the student knows the information, not how fast they can go.

 

We use a virtual academy that uses the MAP assessment, a computerized adaptive test. The math section has between 51-54 questions on it. My son just took about two hours to finish it. He was going so slow, in fact, that I called the test proctor and asked when he had to be finished by (she has to go home some time). She said there was no limit and that she can suspend the test when it was time for her to go home and he could start where he left off another day. She also told me that she has had a student take the entire day to finish just one portion (language) of the test. Of course, this is a totally different kind of test so maybe that's why there is no time limit?

[Chris in VA]

Is his slowness a form of rebellion--sort of a passive-aggressive thing? I've seen this in action in a friend's child, and I honestly would feel very frustrated to have to deal with it. It could be something totally different, of course. Rebellion triggers something in me, and I have to be careful to handle it in an appropriate manner. Do you feel triggered, too?

[LizzyBee]

Yes, this child is slow in all other areas of life too. We have always said he has two speeds--slow and stop. Yet, he is very, very smart, and has no learning disabilities. He would not qualify for testing accommodations, yet I can see this really hurting him in the tests that "matter" in high school.

 

 

 

People can be brilliant and still have LDs. It is quite possible he has a slow processing speed. My 12 yo has a slow processing speed, and the EdPsych who tested her said she would qualify for accomodations if she were in school because slow processing speed can't be remediated.

 

Doing daily math drills made my 12 yo slower, not faster. What finally worked with her was doing triangle flash cards (the kind where you can see all 3 numbers in the equation) for 30 minutes a day, then moving to written drills after she was proficient orally. We did that when she was 11; I wouldn't do it with a kid much younger than that.

[Amy loves Bud]

I'll just tell you that I feel your pain. My kids are taking the ITBS this week, and my dd is acing it all. But I can tell you right now that on Thursday when she does the computation section, she will absolutely NOT finish it. I've looked at it, and she can easily do each problem in that section, but not in the time allotted.

 

She is slow in every aspect of her life, and she is just like my sister. Very smart, very slow.

 

No advice, just understanding!

[EKS]

You could use an untimed test like the PASS (you can get it from Hewitt) to see how he does when untimed. Also, are you sure there are no LDs? Have you had him evaluated? If not, something could show up there that would allow him to get testing accommodations. If you are wanting to get accommodations for the SAT, it is important to do the evaluation several years before because they want to see a history of a need for accommodations.

[WTMCassandra]

Is his slowness a form of rebellion--sort of a passive-aggressive thing?

 

No, it's not passive-aggressive rebellion. He's slow at everything--it's just that timed math computation shows it up the worst.

[WTMCassandra]

She is slow in every aspect of her life, and she is just like my sister. Very smart, very slow.

 

No advice, just understanding!

 

Thanks for the commiseration. I appreciate it. That sounds like my son: very smart but very slow.

Edited May 20, 2009 by WTMCassandra

[WTMCassandra]

OK, I'm surprised that many of you are recommending that he be evaluated. So maybe I should look at this. How would I go about doing that?

 

We don't have a close re/s with our pediatrician--since we moved here fairly recently and they are older (don't need as many shots, don't get sick often) we have only seen her a couple of times.

 

We've always regarded it as a personality quirk because it is across the board, not just academics. He is guaranteed to be the last in every footrace, for example ; ). But he grasps concepts quickly and is my more academic one overall, so it just seems inconceivable that it's an LD. But I suppose it could be.

[amy g.]

I let the school test my pokey one when she was 9. They said that she had no learning disabilities-her I.Q. just wasn't that high, and she was working to ability.

 

I knew that was wrong. It turns out that they gave her a TIMED I.Q. test. No wonder she didn't score very high.

 

She was a ninth grader this year, and I started to realize that she is never going to do well on a timed SAT or ACT. I got her a 3 day battery of tests with a specialist, and found out that she has a very high I.Q. and a processing speed in the 2nd percentile.

 

Now, she can take all tests untimed. It is something to look into.

[Mamasteff]

Sounds exactly like my wonderful one. Last year she didn't finish either of the math sections. Her scores were WAY lower than they would have been had she finished. When she was in traditional school, she missed EVERY morning recess for the time she was there because she wasn't finished with the 5 minute timed math.

 

If it makes you feel any better - Cat-5 is the older version of the test and was timed. The newer version (Cat-6) is untimed, for everyone, at least in California. So if you are working independently - decide if you want him compared to previously tested groups, or current "peers" who are not timed.

 

If it helps at all - I didn't change anything this year. I still timed it. DD actually finished BOTH math sections on time (with about 30 seconds to spare, but still!!!) Didn't test her, didn't change my teaching style- it just worked for her this year.

 

(Maybe I did change teaching style: "Set the timer and do 1 hour of math, then move on to everything else. When all of that is done you have homework until the math is done." When I don't do that it takes 3 hours to do one Saxon lesson. When I do have her time it - she has never had to do homework!)

[klmama]

I got her a 3 day battery of tests with a specialist, and found out that she has a very high I.Q. and a processing speed in the 2nd percentile.

 

Now, she can take all tests untimed. It is something to look into.

 

What kind of specialist did the testing? What testing was it? I need to look into this for one of mine, too.

[amy g.]

I just read your last post, and I wanted to add that my slow child is also my most academically able. I just got her report card from her Worldview I class. She had to read and write papers on The Iliad, The Odyssey, The Aeneid, Plato's Republic, and St. Augustine among others. She received a grade of 100% for all three credits. I don't even want to tell you how many hours a week it took her, but I really doubt that my other children without learning disabilities will score that high when they take the class.

 

I talked first to my family practitioner, and she sent me to a testing center that had a sliding scale. Our medical savings account paid the entire cost of testing.

Edited May 20, 2009 by amy g.

[WTMCassandra]

What kind of specialist did the testing? What testing was it? I need to look into this for one of mine, too.

 

Yes, I'd like to know this too.

[amy g.]

Now I read your other post....

 

I had her tested by a educational psychologist that my family practitioner recommended.

 

Mine is very slow walking, talking, bathing, cleaning....

 

You get the idea. This is what made me think your son might be having a similar problem.

[WTMCassandra]

Now I read your other post....

 

I had her tested by a educational psychologist that my family practitioner recommended.

 

Mine is very slow walking, talking, bathing, cleaning....

 

You get the idea. This is what made me think your son might be having a similar problem.

 

Thanks for the info. I'll look into it.

[amy g.]

She had I. Q tests because to have a learning disability, you need a certain discrepancy between ability and performance. Then she was tested in every academic area. I also requested a complete physiological battery, but you might not need that.

 

Dd had 3 areas with at least 2 standard deviations between her ability and performance. These were Spelling, Computation, and Processing speed.

 

Here is the website to the center where she was tested.

 

http://www.depelchin.org/fw/main/Counseling-Services-101.html

[Amy loves Bud]

OK, I'm surprised that many of you are recommending that he be evaluated. So maybe I should look at this. How would I go about doing that?

 

We don't have a close re/s with our pediatrician--since we moved here fairly recently and they are older (don't need as many shots, don't get sick often) we have only seen her a couple of times.

 

We've always regarded it as a personality quirk because it is across the board, not just academics. He is guaranteed to be the last in every footrace, for example ; ). But he grasps concepts quickly and is my more academic one overall, so it just seems inconceivable that it's an LD. But I suppose it could be.

 

It's as if we have the same kid, but mine's a girl. I never even considered an LD either. These posts have my wheels turning. Thanks for asking the question!

[FlockOfSillies]

You need an eductional psychologist. They specialize in testing kids for learning disabilities and giftedness. Most work in ps districts, but some have private practices. It will cost a pretty penny, unless you have a friend who will do it for you, or you go through the district.

[Kathy in MD]

Honestly, since I plan on homeschooling all the way through, I'd just give him the accommodation and let him finish the test. The goal, for me, is to find out if the student knows the information, not how fast they can go.......

 

 

 

Often times fast thinking is required in the real world. The inability to think and work quickly can hamper career choices, advancement and sometimes crisis situations. Slow testing speeds can be indicative of slow processing speeds. There are things that can help speed processing times and therefore increase real life choices.

 

If therapy/training programs don't help, there are still the timed tests most college bound students must take. To get time accomodations on these tests, there must be a long paper trail of needed accomodations. It's never too soon to start to to work on it.

 

So I wouldn't just brush off slow processing speeds, thinking that because I homeschool, I don't need to worry about it. Our dc have to enter the real world eventually. Most of us homeschool so they're well prepared for the real world, so we shouldn't hide behind it when there are problems.

[Danestress]

Yet, he is very, very smart, and has no learning disabilities. He would not qualify for testing accommodations, yet I can see this really hurting him in the tests that "matter" in high school.

 

 

 

I think that's more or less what learning disabilities are - children who have normal or high IQs but have some sort of problem that makes it hard for them to perform up to expectations. It would seem very possible to me that your exceptionally smart child has some sort of processing disorder that is challenging him, and I would exhaust all possible avenues for finding out what the problem is while he is still young.

[Chris in VA]

No, it's not passive-aggressive rebellion. He's slow at everything--it's just that timed math computation shows it up the worst.

 

Well that's good! I think there's a difference between someone who's slow because they take their time, methodically thinking things thru, and someone who is distracted, AND someone who just doesn't want to do whatever it is. Sounds like others have been helpful. Sorry you have to deal with this.

[LizzyBee]

OK, I'm surprised that many of you are recommending that he be evaluated. So maybe I should look at this. How would I go about doing that?

 

My kids were tested at the local university Psychoeducational Clinic. You could check on whether one of your state universities has one. It was considerably cheaper than going with a private practitioner.

 

I wanted to add that my kid with a slow processing speed is my deepest thinker. Her older sister is much faster than her, but older dd can also read a book, proclaim what a great book it was, but not be able to tell me anything about it. Look for your child's gifts, because being wired "differently" is not a bad thing - it's just different.

 

One of the partners where I work is brilliantly smart - but I am almost positive he has a slow processing speed. I have learned to tell him something, then shut up and let him process rather than filling the air with more words that are not helpful. I was always one of those kids who finished a test in half the time of the next person and to this day, I tend to give quick, off the cuff answers when asked a question. But in working with the aforementioned partner and my dd, I can see how their slower processing speed can be an advantage. They are more likely to consider all the angles of a question and give a more thoughtful response.

[MIch elle]

He's very smart but was VERY unmotivated at home. Having never attended school (except band) he could take his time with everything! :lol:

 

Well, now that he's in high school, he has learned to do his work quickly! He needed the pressure of school to motivate him.

 

On timed tests I recommend doing lots of test prep and working out a strategy BEFORE the test on how to solve as many problems as possible. This helps tremendously! :001_tt2:

 

We did not test him until the end of 7th grade using ITBS and then in 8th grade took the High School Placement Test. Testing too young is not something we do (we don't have to). Your 10yo is still young!

Edited May 20, 2009 by MIch elle