teen sleep help

[Only me]

I know that I've posted about this many times on the board but I am getting really desperate. My 14 year old dd has insomnia and hasn't been able to sleep well since last fall. By not sleeping well (without meds) I mean she can't fall asleep until 2 am and is up several times a night.

 

I took her to a sleep specialist in late March. We tried a higher dose of melatonin, which only made dd very tired and also made her wake up even more often during the night. We've tried everything else I can think of: plenty of exercise, sunshine, no caffeine, no tv/video games before bed, chamomile tea, magnesium, melatonin, etc.

 

Last week the doctor put her on Trazodone but that gave her severe headaches. I'm supposed to call the doctor tomorrow if dd's headaches are gone and she wants to put dd on a sleeping pill (either Lunesta or Ambien). I called our pediatrician to ask for his opinion and he doesn't like the idea of putting a 14 year old on sleeping pills but he has no other suggestions.

 

Under the sleep doc's orders dd goes to bed at 10:30 and I have to wake her up at 8:00 regardless of whether or not she was able to sleep the night before. Needlness to say, she is exhausted in the mornings. She begs for me to let her sleep longer. During the day she has very little energy. I know that some of this can be typical teenage behavior but I believe she is truly exhausted. It has affected her concentration level and I believe compromised her immune system. She seems to catch any illness that comes around. She had two illnesses (one in February and on in March) where she was sick in bed for a week.

 

I'm trying to figure out what our next step should be. Somehow I have to figure out a way to get her the sleep she needs. On one hand I'm wondering if I should just let her sleep as her body needs in the morning. Our schoolwork is winding down so this really shouldn't be a problem. I figure during the summer she could go to bed late and wake up late (within reason).

 

On the other hand, she will be going to private high school in the fall as a freshman and will need to wake up at 6:00 so I'm wondering if we need to fix this now. If I let her go to be late/wake up late this summer I will probably start putting her on a different schedule a month before school starts.

 

Again, please forgive me for posting so much about this lately but I'm hoping that someone can offer some suggestions that I haven't thought about.

[Laura Corin]

When you say plenty of exercise: what kind of exercise and what level of intensity?

 

Best wishes

 

Laura

[jonesloonybin]

I have battled insomnia for quite a few years now. I am very sorry your DD is going through this. I have taken many different pills for sleeping. For me it comes in cycles. Right now I have trazodone. I will sometimes take two a night. I don't get a headache from it. But if she is getting them, just try another. I know what you mean about not wanting her to be on pills but from someone that battles the no sleep...it is worth it. I have tried so many. Seems like they work for awhile then my body adjusts and they don't work anymore. Once I am able to get some sleep, I don't have to take the pills for awhile.

 

Some other things that help me. I keep my room very cool and I also use a fan. The fan helps block the little noises. Those would wake me up throughout the night. I invest in a good pillow and I use a body pillow. (super comfy). I set my alarm for 8 am but if I take a pill, I let myself sleep in longer. (since I am catching up on sleep).

 

Ambien is very gentle. I know that the prescribe it to pregnant women, so I would not worry too much about side effects. (I tried it but it did not work for me.)

 

Good luck.

[eternalknot]

This sounds so incredibly frustrating for all of you :grouphug:

 

I see you're seeing a sleep specialist, but have you also taken her to the general doctor for bloodwork? The insomnia and immune-system issues may be unrelated, but it might also suggest her hormone levels could be awry - particularly DHEA. Perhaps iron, too. If she HAS been checked already, a follow-up might be in order ... maybe with a different doctor, more accustomed to treating women/older women (who may be more familiar with and able to more easily recognize hormonal issues than, say, a pediatrician or sleep specialist).

 

I know you've tried everything, but I'll throw out what has worked BEST for me. I've not found a 100% success rate of an answer, but as a lifelong sufferer of insomnia ... here is what has helped me:

 

1. Bedroom is for sleeping only. No reading in bed, no computers, nothing. I keep no electronics in the room, not even a digital alarm clock, to avoid any potential EMF issues. It's literally a sleeping retreat - within a few weeks of this change, it became easier for me to fall asleep within 15 minutes of hitting the bed. I didn't/don't always STAY asleep but ... baby steps, you know? Those initial hours of sleep (from 10pm-2am or so) tend to be more restful than the hours I otherwise get from 3-6am.

 

2. If I can't sleep, I focus on one repetitive task - in bed. I usually do a rosary, but any chant or meditation would work. It keeps my mind from straying on to other things that will just keep me up, ... thinking or worrying or otherwise engaging my brain into a more alert status.

 

3. When all else fails, I take valerian. It has had no side effects for me, and I take it as-needed (usually at work when I HAVE to get x-amount of sleep to function fully the following day). It may be a more gentle option for your DD.

 

Again, I feel for your family. I think your best bet is to get to the root of the problem - instead of exclusively treating the symptom (insomnia) you have to figure out what is causing it, and go from there. It won't be an easy task, but with your dedication I'm confident it will be a task that ends in successfully identifying the problem and appropriately treating it.

Edited May 13, 2009 by eternalknot

[jacqui in mo]

:grouphug::grouphug: I don't have any great advice as I am in the same boat as you & feel greatly for you and your daughter. My 14yo dd is having trouble with abdominal migraines which have been getting worse and also causing some sleep issues I think. She also seems to be prone to any illness going around, so if it isn't the migraine, it's something else. We're also sending our dd to a private school this fall so I have similar worries about it as you.

Our gastroenterologist is sending us to a headache/pain management center to learn relaxation and other behavioral management techniques. I wonder if there is a behavioral type therapy for learning how to put yourself to sleep & sleep deeply (without waking up during the night).

 

If you find something that works, please keep us posted as it might be helpful in my daughter's case.

 

Jacqui

[Danestress]

After years of sleep problems, a doctor gave me a 2 week prescription for Ambien. She said that part of the problem is probably biological, but part of the problem is also psychological - that after a while, I became convinced I couldn't sleep, overly preoccupied with whether I was going to sleep, and used to a schedule that didn't include sleep.

 

So she said for me to take the Ambien, go to bed early, set the alarm for early, get up when it rang no matter what, and just get used to 2 weeks of that. No nappy, no drinking, and no screens at night.

 

It really made a difference. I still have sleep problems, but not as severe.

 

She's old enough to take responsibility for this. She should NOT be begging you to let her sleep. You need to talk straight to her and tell her that you have invested a lot of time and money into this, and that she needs to hold up her end, which is following doctor's order and getting up in the morning without complaint and I mean ZERO tolerance for the whining. That's just not acceptable unless she wants to start footing the doctor and medicine bills.

 

All the things that have worked best for me are things I really didn't want to do. I didn't want to go to bed at 11:00. I didn't want to wake at 7:00 every single day no matter what. I didn't want to exercise vigorously every single day no matter what. I didn't want to turn the tv and computers off and darken the room at 10:00. I hate all of those things, but all of them work for me. I still slouch on the exercise, and I notice a difference (But I really hate exercise, lol)

 

I would insist she get up at 7:00 and immediately get in an hour of good hard exercise. But I would also, if the doctor is recommending it, let her use Ambien or something else short term to get used to it.

[Only me]

She's old enough to take responsibility for this. She should NOT be begging you to let her sleep. You need to talk straight to her and tell her that you have invested a lot of time and money into this, and that she needs to hold up her end, which is following doctor's order and getting up in the morning without complaint and I mean ZERO tolerance for the whining. That's just not acceptable unless she wants to start footing the doctor and medicine bills.

 

I just wanted to clarify that I don't feel that she was whining. She has never been a behavior problem. I don't think that she is being disrespectful to me. I just think that she is very, very tired. We have been following the doctor's recommendations since late March and dd goes to bed at 10:30. She can't watch TV or play video games, etc. past 9:00. She has to wake up at 8:00 and no sleeping in on the weekends.

 

I really don't think this is the typical teenage thing where the kid just wants to spend more time in bed. I would love to sleep late but of course I don't. I would love to stay in bed when my alarm goes off at 7:00 I get up anyway. The difference though is that once I'm up I'm ok and have energy to get through the day. Even after waking up dd is very tired all day. She will go for a bike ride in the afternoon but then is exhausted afterwards. She doesn't have the energy to do a lot. Teens are supposed to get 9 to 9 1/2 hours of sleep. She is lucky if she is getting half of that. When she was taking the melatonin or Trazodone it was even worse. Then she felt drugged.

 

I do appreciate your suggestions but I did want to clarify that I don't think this is a behavior issue.

[Laura Corin]

She will go for a bike ride in the afternoon but then is exhausted afterwards. She doesn't have the energy to do a lot.

 

Too sleepy to exercise, perhaps not enough exercise to help her sleep.

 

If I were you (feel free to ignore this - I'm not in your, or her, shoes) I'd let her sleep in for a few weeks over the summer until she is not so exhausted. Then I would get her involved in a really vigorous exercise programme: perhaps building up to an hour of brisk swimming or running a day - enough to raise her heart rate into her training zone and keep it there. Once she is exercising at that level, which is about right for children anyway, then see how her sleeping is, and whether you can bring her bedtime earlier.

 

Best wishes

 

Laura

[phathui5]

I would recommend seeing a naturopathic doctor. They can look at all aspects of her lifestyle and use a wider variety or treatments than an allopathic MD.

[Suzanne in ABQ]

I don't have experience with this, at least not to the extreme you are dealing with it. But, I do believe that if I had given the doctor's recommendation a fair try, for the time specified, and it was not working, I would try something else! I would definitely let her sleep and sleep and sleep, for awhile at least, to give her body a chance to regulate itself. Perhaps her body clock just works on a different schedule. I know mine does. Left to my own, I would be happiest sleeping from 1 until 8. I can't always do that, but I always fall into that pattern given the chance.

 

I also second the advice of seeing an naturopath, or even a osteopath. They treat the "whole person", not just the symptoms. If you can find out what is causing the problem, perhaps you can figure out a way to make it all just go away. . .

[Danestress]

Just that if the doctor is telling you that she needs to get up at a certain time, she needs to not beg you to let her fudge that. Think of the tiredness as pain. If your child complained that a necessary medical treatment was unpleasant, would you stop the treatment? No.

 

This is unpleasant for her. I totally understand because I feel like sleep issues are just *torture* sometimes. To say that my sleep cycle has been a torment at times is really true. So I understand how she feels. But if you are going to try to follow doctor's order, she needs to understand that she can't undermine it with complaining. I understand WHY she is complaining - believe me. But it sounds like it's sort of wearing you down, so she needs to stop because she's old enough to exercise discipline over what she says and does. That's all. I'm sorry if you thought I thought she was someone being a bratty teen - I didn't mean to address it that way. I'm sure her sleep problems are making her totally miserable, and maybe the doctor's approach isn't the best one. Perhaps there is an underlying medical condition?

 

But if you are committed to having her at this private school next year, I guess you don't have a choice anyway. I think in that case you might need to really work on the schedule he's given you. Apart from that, I might say, "hey, if she goes to bed at 2:00 and gets up at 11:00 isn't that sort of okay? If I could, I actually might try that schedule instead of the one you are trying because it might suit her natural rhythm better.

[Only me]

DD has had a rough week being off of all medications. I spoke to the sleep specialist yesterday and she wanted dd to try Sonata. It was supposed to be a little weaker then Lunesta and Ambien. I was really worried to give it to her because when I picked it up at the pharmacy the pharmacist was shocked that they prescribed it for a teenager. It isn't approved for anyone under 18.

 

So I gave it to her last night at 10:00. At 10:30 her older sister came into my room to tell me that her sister was acting really strange. When I got in their dd seemed drunk. Her speech was slurred, she was giggling and wasn't making sense. I decided to spend the night in a sleeping bag on her floor to keep an eye on her. Even though she was extremely tired she didn't fall asleep until 11:30. Then she still woke up and couldn't get back to sleep several times during the night. I hate having her on a sleeping pill if she is going to react to it like this and then not even be able to sleep.

[jacqui in mo]

I would talk with the pharmacist &/or doctor about her reaction to Sonata. (I'm lucky, my brother is a pharmacist & talking to him helps a whole lot). Does it take a while for the med to build up in the system before it's effective or should it have been effective right away?

[Orthodox6]

I don't have long to type just now, but does this post ever hit home with me ! I have battled insomnia for 35 years. A remedy may work for 2-3 weeks, then it fails. Stress worsens the problem. Currently I'm in a 3-month long (and continuing) run of sleeping only 0-5 hours per night.

 

I have discontinued all caffeine, and all "natural" remedies, to let my body return to "empty". After that, who knows.

 

Trazodone does work, if one can stand the unconquerable constipation attendant upon the drug's use. It also is an older-type antidepressant, so factor that in.

 

The other drugs listed in posts can trigger dependency; they are not prescribed for long-term use.

 

My heart really goes out to your daughter, Truly. May you find a safe and lasting remedy for her !

[Only me]

ITrazodone does work, if one can stand the unconquerable constipation attendant upon the drug's use. It also is an older-type antidepressant, so factor that in.

 

Unfortunately we tried Trazodone and it gave dd horrible headaches.

 

I really don't know where to go from here. I feel so bad for her because she has little energy during the day. It's tough for her to exercise etc. because she is so tired but that makes it more difficult to sleep at night.

[Ria]

Have they tried one of the newer antidepressants? A major symptom of depression can be insomnia. Chemical imbalances can manifest themselves in strange ways.

 

I hope you get some answers soon.

 

Ria

[Danestress]

I would imagine she probably has, but I am curious about the waking in the middle of the night thing. That's one of my major sleep issues - I wake (for reasons I don't understand) and generally can NOT fall back asleep. Ambien does help me with that, but I generally don't keep it in the house and just try to cope with things they way they are.

 

But I didn't have this problem until I was older than your daughter. Can they do a sleep evaluation to try to find out why she is waking?

[Amber in AUS]

Maybe straight forward but does she have a bedtime routine? For my babies I insisted on a very strict bedtime routine and i have awesome sleepers. I have struggled with falling asleep all my life and was determined not to have my kids be the same. After dinner there is no stimuli, no TV or radio, no music. We have quiet baths. We have quiet stories on the couch and we go to bed quietly. Their room is pitch black the window is completely blacked out.

 

Gotta go DH is home. Will check back later

[Only me]

She has a routine. No computers/TV at least 1 hour before bed. She has the same bedtime every night and I've been waking her up the same time every day. It doesn't seem to matter.

 

What is strange is that my other two children are great sleepers. This dd has always had a shift in her clock. Even as a baby I would find her wide awake in her crib at night. She wouldn't be crying but was wide awake. I definitely had her on a routine then but it didn't seem to matter.

 

The doctor says that she has a delayed onset sleep pattern. She naturally falls asleep later and wakes up later but it has gotten worse this year. The problem is lately she has had more trouble actually staying asleep.

[DawnL]

Have they looked into sleep apnea, and things like that? A person can have regular-sized tonsils, but huge andenoids. Huge andenoids would cause sleep apnea, making a person wake up several times during the night.

 

I would never consider Ambien for myself, and would be very opposed to giving it to one of my children. The side effects of Ambien are frightening.

[Stacia]

This has nothing to do w/ insomnia, but could she be anemic? That popped in my head reading your posts because you talk about her total lack of energy during the times she is awake.

 

It may not help cure the insomnia, but I'd get it checked. If she is anemic, rectifying that could at least help give her more energy during the day.

[Peela]

This has nothing to do w/ insomnia, but could she be anemic? That popped in my head reading your posts because you talk about her total lack of energy during the times she is awake.

 

It may not help cure the insomnia, but I'd get it checked. If she is anemic, rectifying that could at least help give her more energy during the day.

 

Yes, this is what occurred to me, too.

I just had my dd14 have some bloodwork because although she sleeps well, she is too tired during the day to be as active as I tihnk she should be for her age. She gets headaches and other symptoms. Everything came back normal except that her iron is low- so now I know and I can do something about it, and we will see how that affects her other issues.

 

I also 2nd the recommendation of valerian as a more natural sleep inducer. There are effective herbal mixtures that I would try long before I tried the prescription drugs you are using.

[Hapax Legomena]

hpymomof3

 

I appreciate all of the advice that has been offered and hope that your dd gets some relief from this lingering situation. I cannot resist one more avenue of opportunity if nothing else seems to work. I am wondering if there might be a relationship between sleeplessness and being a Cubs fan. On second thought, most cubs fans don't begin to have sleepless nights until the All-Star break.

 

Seriously, I hope something works soon, and I hope it not only alleviates the problem but eliminates it entirely.

[Only me]

hpymomof3

 

I appreciate all of the advice that has been offered and hope that your dd gets some relief from this lingering situation. I cannot resist one more avenue of opportunity if nothing else seems to work. I am wondering if there might be a relationship between sleeplessness and being a Cubs fan. On second thought, most cubs fans don't begin to have sleepless nights until the All-Star break.

 

Seriously, I hope something works soon, and I hope it not only alleviates the problem but eliminates it entirely.

 

That is so funny. Hey they won today! I guess my family should be a family of insomniacs then because dd is a 4th generation Cub's Fan.

 

Stacia and Peela,

 

I will definitely check into the anemia. I hadn't thought of that. I'm actually planning on scheduling a physical for her next week and want them to do blood work just to make sure everything is ok.

 

I felt so sorry for her today. In February she qualified for the state bowling tournament which was held today. She only had 4 hours of sleep last night. She did ok but was extremely tired and had a very difficult time bowling her 6th game.

 

I'm also going to check into some other natural remedies. Thanks everyone!

Edited May 16, 2009 by hpymomof3