Seeing Stars can be used at home. I only own the manual, and an older version at that. It is also a full leaning to read program, but I have huge philosophical problems with using it that way. Mostly because they use inaccurate spelling rules (laziness in my opinion), eliminates the multi-sensory work way too early, and isn't sequential in how it presents spelling rules. I use the method with AAS sequence and continue to use tiles and other multi-sensory work. I See Sam provides a LOT more practice with the same word pool. I own Bob Books, Now I'm Reading sets, Step Into Reading beginning readers, and a couple other miscellaneous sets and I See Sam provides more practice than all of them combined. Though I use all of them. The reason why I like multi-sensory work is because each sense stores information in a different part of the brain, so if they are struggling to hear it they have other senses that are stronger to fall back on. In using AAS as a base, we will cover the new rule then I spend 4 days on the words (AAS recommends 2, one day with tiles and one day written). The first day my ds does tiles, the second day he writes the words on the white board, the third day we do Seeing Stars work and day four he writes them out on paper. With phonograms we go through a process where I give him the sounds, he repeats them, I show him the card with the letter and again say the sound, he repeats it, and then he writes it in sand while saying the sound and then he does his Seeing Stars visualization of the letter while saying the sound. This way he uses his sense of touch, hearing, seeing, speaks it and works on visualization in one setting. I am kinda jumping all over the place to quickly touch on things discussed. In looking at new programs keep in mind that for struggling readers Orton-Gillingham (O/G) methods have been proved to work the best time and time again. Full O/G programs include Barton Reading and Spelling, Wilson Reading, Sonday Reading by Winsor Learning, Recipe for Reading (how to put together your own program, not a stand alone by itself) and eventually AAS with AAR. Eventually because AAR isn't finished nor is AAS. Programs based on O/G include Explode the Code (not very multi-senosry, but original o/g wasn't as multi-sensory as current programs), Spalding's Writing Road to Reading (was created to be a quick lean to read for non-stuggling students) and other off shoots of Spalding including Writing Road to Reading and Spell to Write and Read. I would encourage you to stay away from programs that use cute pictures on flashcards and music to learn. I love music but the only way to recall it is to sing it and I personally have had times in my life where I got it wrong because I wouldn't chance someone hearing me sing the song to recall the information. With pictures on flash cards you can create a dependency on it. That instead of the child having instant recall that A says /a/ they have to recall an apple then recall the sound, thus slowing their reading down because it is a two step process instead of one. Many kids naturally grow out of using the pictures, but those who struggle the most have the hardest time learning to NOT use them. It isn't worth the risk, IMO. Heather

It really depends on the child. My oldest was a natural reader and speller and mostly taught herself. Not that we weren't doing a phonics program (I was using Sonlight LA 1 with Explode the Code 1, 2 and 3) but by the end of 1st grade she was reading on a 3rd grade level. We still did the next level just to be sure she covered it all, and by the end of 2nd grade she was reading at a 7th grade level. I still use SL LA with all the kids but now modify my focus to meet their need and add in other pieces. My 2nd dd could spell a year before she could blend so we just focused on spelling. She did a lot of dictation, and reviewing of phonograms and it eventually came. My 3rd dd couldn't spell at all and like your dd needed more reading practice. She did fine with SL LA and ETC, but I also added in AAS for her, then dropped it because she couldn't hear blends or short i and e at all. I ended up using I See Sam readers to build fluency. They are great for reading practice, using the same words repeatedly till they become automatic. They also are careful not to introduce too much at once. I did have to do a programs called LiPS with her to develop the ability to hear the difference between sounds, then I did Seeing Stars with her to develop the ability to see words in her mind (visual memory of words is how we check our spelling, and she didn't have that ability). With those pieces in place she was now reading at or above grade level, but we has to re-start AAS. She still is only in level 2, but she is spelling blends correctly now and is not having problems with short i or e anymore. I guess I would go with your gut and focus on reading for now. The I See Sam Books have the best practice that I have seen. I would recommend those. Before buying AAS 1 would suggest you try this screening: Barton Screening This will tell you if she has an underlying phonic awareness problem (fancy term for can't hear the difference between sounds) and needs to do LiPS in order to be successful in any spelling program. Heather

I would second this. I would also ask, can she spell? My 2nd dd could spell for over a year before she could blend. We focused on spelling and the reading eventually clicked (which is what Ellie is suggesting). Barton did wonders for my ds who also couldn't blend. By that I mean we had been working on blending (by my doing it first and him repeating, first slowly then faster then saying the word and him repeating each step after me) for almost a year, and with Barton he was blending in a week. But he also had phonic awareness problems and had to go through LiPS first. Heather

Brave Writer/The Writers Jungle was wonderful for shifting how *I* thought about writing. I would pay the money for it again just for that. When it comes down to the practical (and I have used The Arrow as well), It just isn't concrete enough for me; it is too random in how it approaches topics. It is based on Ruth Beechick philosophy and she advocates a spiral approach where you introduce topics at the beginning of the year, then cover it off and on through the year. I like the theory, but we all here need mastery and need to....over learn it before we own it. That said I still buy it sometimes just for the dictation she picks out in a certain book. I would steer you more to Writing With Ease or Writing Tales, depending on where the child is at. Heather

That is good to hear. I wonder why Game Stop won't take it used then? I just assumed it was because of the figures. I am currently frustrated because my kids have gone from being totally upset with how little play there was and wanting to get rid of it, to making the best of it and now to talking about buying more figures or expansions to "fix it". :001_huh: There is no way I am giving this company more of my money. :glare: If the kids want to save up their money and poor it down the drain there isn't anything I can do about it. (Well I can but I believe in letting them make their own decisions and then living with those decisions.) Heather

This is very much my ds. Heather

That's disappointing to hear. Normally we get a ton of play out of Pokemon games. It does have have some wireless that will extend the play here. I hope this isn't a trend. Heather

Ya they have to set it all up and then when they are done playing put it all away. They kept the original packaging so they just package it away in there. Heather

Some kids probably love this game and the cost is worth it for them. I own a DS and play with my kids a lot. I own most the of Pokemon games and Dragon Quest IX. Most of the games I buy cost $35 and have years of play in them. A lot of the extended play comes from wireless group game play. We can go dig underground, have a battle, rescue each other, explore and team up to beat the bad guys. Skylanders cost $70, twice the other games we play. Took my kids less that 24 hours to have completed the whole thing. They had problems with getting the portals to read at times. The figures save your progress, so it can't be used by another child, unless they are ok with playing through the content with a fully leveled figure. Because the figures save your progress companies that would normally take used games won't take this one. The only way to extend the play is to buy new figures, but the game play is still exactly the same for each figure. There is no wireless play, so we can't do anything together. Compared to other games this one is a cash cow, specifically designed to get as much money out of your pocket as possible with very little actual play time in return for your money. My kids get much more play out of Pokemon (own most of them), Dragon Quest IX, Age of Empires series games, Might and Magic Clash of Heroes, Kingdom Hearts series games and Final Fantasy games...and most of those we can play together. Several of them we only need one game to do so, because they support download play-Age of Empires, Might and Magic. The rest require each player has a cartridge but, but allow a lot of group game play. Not saying you should ever buy the game. I just want people to be informed on what you are getting, so you don't end up disappointed. If we had known here we would have bought Pokemon Rumble instead, for half the cost. Heather

Just to confusing you I am doing WWE and GWG. :D I use GWG because this child is a visual learner and prefers to work independently. GWG fits that much better. Philosophy wise WWW is a traditional program, which I don't like. WWE has the philosophical base that makes sense to me, so for writing he is doing WWE. I just don't require him to do the holding of the dictation in his mind. We are are very good at visualization and just replay things when we need to remember things so the dictation for memory is not needed and would just frustrate him to no end. Doing it word for word makes it doable for him, especially because he is not a strong speller (dyslexic). Heather

I schedule a time for hands on for both history and science. Sometimes that is fun and sometimes work, just depends on how the project hits them. (BTW I assign them and don't help, not my thing. I just make sure they have what they need including instructions.) Mostly I try to get thing done quickly so they can have fun of their own choice. Sometimes school is work, and that is ok. They just need to learn work before play. Heather

Beth, I don't make a big deal out of it if my dd can't answer. I just simply explain the answer to her, and she follows along fine. Over time I am explaining less and she is answering more. Heather

There is nothing wrong with doing that. But to make sure it is a good fit I would ask you why? What isn't working about MOH, and what do you think will work better with SL? SL wasn't the best of fits here, because of the volume of work (I wanted more time to work on math and reading skills given how close in age my kids are) and because my three younger kids don't enjoy the emotional SL books. They prefer books lighter in tone. They also prefer to do hands on rather than a read aloud. But for your family those might be what you are looking for. Heather

I made a 3x5 card that has a sample on it for them to refer to. Out to the side by each of the numbers carried down I list the multiplication used in parenthesis, so they can follow it even when they totally blank on how to do it. But my kids do require a certain amount of isolated practice to get these sort of things down. I haven't used it yet but Math Mammoth has a division/multiplication level 3 that might fit. But it might not. Heather

Tiffany, It is not that unusually to have a 7yo who isn't reading. It can be just developmental, or you might have a learning disability present making it more difficult. What problems is she having? Can she spell? Can she blend? Can she recall sounds when she sees the letters? Does she struggle to remember the letters when she hears the sounds? Are there any other significant struggles she is having. Only my oldest learned to read easily. All the rest have been a battle due to dyslexia. Heather

With my 5th grader I rarely push her beyond 30 mins. I don't go beyond that till middle school (6th grade) and then I won't go beyond an hour through middle school (I have them set a timer and they stop when it hits an hour). For two reasons. First is that they can only absorb so much at once. They need down time to chew on things and let it soak in. Two is I don't want to loose their attitude. None of my kids naturally love math, I can't do anything about that. I can make sure they don't end up hating it. That will only make teaching it and learning it more difficult in the future. I haven't yet decided what I will do in High School. I doubt I will ever go beyond 1.5 hours even then. Heather

I like CW because it teaches you how to use language. I was the sort of kid who would know a sentence was not worded right, but I couldn't figure out any other way to put it. I would just sit and stare and literally the only thing I could think of was the sentence that didn't work. CW teaches you how to do synonym substations, change tense, change number, use quotes, change person, move clauses. These are skills many may naturally have. I didn't. I may have learned them at one time, but never used them consistently enough to own them. CW both teaches them and uses them long enough that they become second nature. That is the heart of CW for me. Heather

You know your dd best, and I am sure you have made a good decision. We are whole to parts learners here (right brain), so even Singapore is too spiral for us. MM has worked much better because it follows one topic at a time, where Singapore will stay one one topic till it finishes it for the year, but each year it spirals and builds on what you learned the year before. As much as I love Singapore as an adult, it is because I am an adult and it is easy for me with my previous mastery of math to get what is going on. To be in the program as a child may not have worked that well, especially if my children are any indication. Heather

Honestly I wouldn't have any 3rd grader doing that much math per day. My ds is only doing 2 pages...well he does also do RS, but that is only one more page. My oldest only does an hour of math per day. She sets a timer and I won't let her go over that, because there is only so much the brain can absorb in one day. If I were in your shoes I would only do the 20 mins. If this is developmental then you could rush through MM and still hit a wall. For a 3rd grader I wouldn't do more than 20-30 mins a day. Heather

Agreed! Heather

I just read the book, didn't do any training or have any videos. The hardest part of the program, IMO, is the segmenting. If you are moving to Barton for level 1 it will cover the same material. You are only using a small part of LiPS overall as it can be used as a complete learning to read program. I think the 3 day would be way overkill, covering lot of material you won't use. I suspect the one day will as well. Personally I would just buy the complete package that comes with videos and see if that is good enough. I even only have a 1st edition of LiPS, and it was good enough. Heather

I would agree with Kai's original assessment. If a child really understands the why behind what they are doing they can bend with different ways of doing it. If they only understand the formula then changing the formula confuses them. As for their being to much on one pages, they can be visually cluttered, but overall I find they don't have as much actual problems per page. I switched over to MM because my kids are more mastery based (we will play with Singapore more later), and they have more problems per page. Yet given I only have a B&W printer the overall effect is simpler, visually. There has also been debates in times pass on different learner styles. There are those who can't do it without learning why, like my dh. He was always behind in math not because he wasn't smart but because he couldn't move on till he figured out why. By the time he did the class had moved onto the next topic. He would get farther and farther behind as the year went on. On the other hand, I didn't really care why. I loved numbers. Memorized all the formulas and did very well in math. It wasn't till later that I learned why. I personally think it is better to learn why because it gives you more flexibility, but not teaching doesn't mean a child won't do well. It really depends on the child. I went through Calculus in college with straight A's. In fact it was so easy I would make it my 8 o'clock class so I could skip most of the time, read the book and just show up for tests. Some kids just don't care when they are young (mine) and you can only force the issue so much without them deciding they hate math. Heather

Ya I haven't even decided if we are using it. I keep waiting for something to jump out at me, but nothing has so far. I own book 1 and need to read through it. I also can break it up with MOH 3, which I think would help. I just can't believe the apparent lack of non-encyclopedia texts at this level and going into high school. Heather

Thank you, Bill! It is just a backwards kind of day here. :glare: Heather

Must have, but I think you know that. You can also look at buying the CD, but it is not cheap. I assume the mini would work fine. Must have to teaching place value. Never used them, but I do have a set of interlinking blocks I used instead. Take a look at the break down of games, this includes not only general number cards, but time and money. You might have it covered and you might not. Not used a whole lot, but the kids love to play with them. I am sure what you have is fine. As long as you have at least 2 colors I think you are fine....there might be times when you use more than 2 colors, but I am not remembering any now. Long term in level B or C you need them to be exactly 1" square because they are used to introduce measuring before you cover the use of a ruler...I don't remember it being an issue in A. What my kids like about the RS one is that it will hold the time. It doesn't move around on its own, you have to turn the dial. And it shows night and day. I am sure you can make what you have work through. Used to show symmetry. Honestly never got one, or lost it. We have always made due without it. Popcicle sticks. Necessary, but you can buy then elsewhere if you want. Never used it here. I personally don't like using songs to remember things because you store it in a different part of the brain and it requires singing it to remember it. One does not want to have to sing a song to remember in the middle of a high pressure situation. You want to work in instant recall without the song, which RS does. I just didn't see the need. They used to be on ytube, and didn't exist at all when I started RS. If you are really visual you might adore it. This is not needed now. Level A and B have all the math games listed in the TM. Starting in level C the TM refers to the Math Game book. That said there are additional games you can play that are never assigned in the TM, so it really is up to you. I suspect the Saxon games you have won't do...maybe at first, but long term RS is teaching specific games to teach specific skills. My guess is a lot of them you can find a Saxon substitute, but probably not all. It also depends on how much time you want to spend finding the substitute. If you want open and go then you will want the RS game book. I have a love hate relationship with this thing. It is very cool. It is large, expensive and hard to store. It uses a system of weights to show how equations "balance". So you put a marker on 5 and 6, then on the other side you put one on 3 and two on 4 and you will see it balance. Any calculator will do, but I really like the RS ones because they are solar. No batteries, and I haven't had one die on me yet. They didn't offer this back when I started, but I bought my own elsewhere. I would recommend them, or real coins if you have them. Again wasn't offered when I started. Nice visual aid, but not necessary. Let me know if you have questions. Heather