Post updates once you get it!! I agree that Write On looks good, but this might be even better!!! Edit: I went ahead and got this AND WWaT used as well - the price was right!

Would love for someone to comment on LOE here. I have kind of talked myself into CLE LA and Reading for the 2nd grader because it's "comprehensive" - as in, covering all the little bits and pieces (e.g., mechanics, use of reference materials, terminology) that I just don't have a mental checklist in my mind for, so they could easily "get missed"). Clearly I'm a bit of a box-checker.

Wow. It looks like what my box checker brain needs :) And therein is my problem with CM style LA. It seems like it relies upon you having all of THAT in your brain to begin with!

Wow that's super interesting! I've always struggled with the idea of revering earlier editions when the author would presumably be motivated to improve on his previous work. (Although a change in leadership, as with the dolciani texts, is a different story, of course....)

I think each book only has like 12-14 lessons? That plus 24 weeks of essentials = around the typical 36 weeks per year?

I know there have been lots of commentary about spelling programs/curricula but it clearly depends a lot on what you are looking for and what you want/need out of a program. For example, ELTL might be for you if you prefer CM/integrated with other LA subjects... and so on. So I thought I'd ask for comments on spelling programs along the lines of Sunlight's "___ reasons SL might not be for you." But of course I'd also be interested in the converse, "___ reasons why ___ might be for you: If you_____" - so comment on your favorites or not-so-favorites both, please. I'm overwhelmed with choices and possible "ways of doing this." I will be bringing my 1st grader home from a Montessori school next year. Part of me wants to figure out Montessori's "way" but that's a whole NOTHER ball of wax, LOL. I am drawn to LOE (according to their website, she's probably ready for Essentials) and AAS as being complete, sorta open and go, and thorough. Once we're done, we're DONE. I HATE trying to cobble something together, and I really want a scope/sequence. I tried CM and really can't wrap my mind around the entire S&S of LA and keep it in my head while trying to find ways to teach all those little points. Maybe in a few years. I want a finish line, with some opportunities for check marks along the way, LOL. I used to say I wasn't a workbook kind of person, but what is it in that siggy? "The curriculum that gets done is superior to the superior one that doesn't"..... So CLE is looking MIGHTY appealing. But I also am looking at their Bible, Reading, and Math for this student.... so...too much? She is a very strong (probably 3rd/early 4th grade?), and fairly natural reader. She is probably a fairly natural speller although she occasionally asks me to spell unfamiliar words for her but IIRC they tend to be the "exceptions."

This is REALLY good to know! So I have editions 1 and 2 and I'm in purge mode. Anyone want to reassure me that getting rid of 1st edition is preferable?

Haha, I wouldn't guess that you liked space! :) I agree that this is an important science :) But then again, I have trouble coming up with a science I -don't- like. It's just that I hadn't really thought about it - the sequencing for the future (trying to follow more of an interest-driven science with hands-on experiences (influenced in part by lewelma's threads that I have read), and had been plugging along with supercharged science and thinking that at some point I'd transition to high school/transcript coursework.... and, then, oh, yeah, maybe I should try to align with the WTM cycle....and then I realized that THIS course might really only fit best right here, in 7th grade. And since we've kind of covered "physical science" it would be the last stage of pre-high-school science????? Maybe???? (Because FWIW, something like "general science" would kill my DD). Edit: And ATM, she says her STEM leaning is towards Mechanical and/or Civil Engineering...and that points to the importance of earth sciences like metals, geology, environmental conditions, etc. (OK it's probably obvious that this isn't my area, but DD has made it clear she does NOT have any interest in the biological sciences (which DH and I both either majored or minored in! Ha.)). But really, I couldn't allow us to "skip" any content area. I'm too much of a box-checker like this. It's more like, is there really no decision to make, here, about WHEN to take it ;) ? Except maybe to consider doing it at home. I know I'll be having younger DD(7) do whatever content area that this DD does. But I mentioned in another thread trying to do them together (e.g., with something like AIG that's for 1st-8th) and was kind of discouraged to try and do that. I could try and use something like the Creek Edge Press task cards because those are also adaptable to different levels but IDK that DD(12) is quite self-motivated enough for it..http://www.creekedgepress.com/Products.html#Task_Card_Series

AKA: Should we take this earth/space science co-op course, like, NOW? I was finally ready to start aligning science with history a la WTM. We've gone from CC (Cycle 1) to TOG (last half of Y2) since we started homeschooling in 4th grade. We stopped doing TOG (and just decided to focus on US state history and geography) since DD will be taking a great books/WTM-ish combined history/lit class next year that covers the -exact- same time period (Early Modern) we were going to do in TOG this year. During that time, we have done Supercharged Science's Science Mastery Program, on content that I would largely characterize as Physical Science (which I have jokingly called "pre-chem/pre-physics"). Topics have included: aeronautics, electricity/robotics, lights/lasers, physics/motion/sound, hovercraft/hydraulics/pneumatics, and electronics. We have started alternative energy and chemistry. So for the WTM we should be doing chemistry next year. So if that were the case, we either need to find a substitute for it for the rest of this year, or just say we are starting it early ;). But for a number of reasons, we are interested in transitioning to local courses (online is an option if necessary but I'd prefer local due to doing labs in person!). In part, to begin outsourcing in general as both she and I need that to happen (a break from each other, reducing the mental effort I put into prep time b/c I'm probably bringing a 7 yo home next year). Also, DD is anxious about getting to high-school level coursework as soon as possible (IDK that her motives are entirely mature but what 12-year-old's is??). We actually had two options for high school credit level work fall through due to scheduling conflicts with the history/lit class (one was chemistry for non-science-y highschoolers). Without pushing for exceptions to be made, we are then looking at middle school coursework for this year. The two good choices available at the moment are life science and earth/space science. If she does well in an in-person course, I think it can help facilitate access to higher level coursework with teachers who might otherwise have been reluctant to take a younger student (simply on mom's recommendation). But this is why there's the question about the earth/space science being necessary RITENAO.... If we are about to begin to transition into high school science tracks, it appears that earth science isn't really covered. Astronomy is, but is that really what STEM degree programs are looking for on an application? I was assuming the course would be expected to look more like: Biology, Chem, Physics, and AP Chem or AP/Calculus-based Physics....? So it seems like next year is the PERFECT time to take the earth/space science course...because she won't really have a chance to come back to it without seriously backtracking....(or doubling up at some point, which she's not really a fan of...), if she follows this track (FWIW, she should complete Algebra next year): 8th-biology 9th-chemistry 10th-physics 11th-advanced science like AP Chem or Physics 12-??? Do I really have to decide that this far in advance? Might be DE? Interest-driven? Yes, I can XP to the high school forum (logic? AL?), but I thought I'd start here?

if it helps with decreasing prep (or, really, mental energy!) I'm good with using teacher pages, kinda wishing the other levels had more than just an answer key haha.

Don't get me wrong, I'm perfectly happy with buying the current student pages and associated materials - I think the Bible Summary Cards are the bomb! And I was about to pull the trigger on ordering materials for next year. But I just had to go take one more look at the Unit guides..... My primary objection to the Unit Guides was that it looked so teacher-dependent AND was largely verbally (or discussion)-based. Upon further research, it appears that there are some games and so on. But I have BUSY kids (two girls 12 and 7) and I REALLY liked the look of the (new?) student pages because it seemed to lend itself to active listening, and breaks up discussion tasks with pen/paper and reading. There weren't ANY pages with pictures/images illustrating the stories...or so I thought, but there's a short glimpse of one in their video on the unit guide page. Is that the one referred to that you're supposed to copy in front of the kids while you do the lesson? I don't see that working either-they're both so curious (nosy?) they wouldn't give me a chance to draw it, they'd be looking at the original, haha! I also feel like neither one fits very well into one of the four levels (younger DD is a strong reader for her age, perhaps mid 3rd grade fluently, older DD is also strong in reading and abstract reasoning but would REALLY be envious of younger DD's pages!) How do YOU use it? I REALLY want to minimize teacher-dependency and prep time, so given that, is my best bet the prepared materials?

Sorry I don't know what to call it, I took the term from my kids swim instruction terminology - There were a few choices - individual lessons (private), group lessons, and 2-3 students together ("semi-private" lessons). We generally found that that when it came to actual learning time, the individual or semi-private lessons were more cost-effective (in other words, cheaper per minute in direct instruction time or practicing). A lot of time in the group lessons was spent waiting, and younger kids are NOT going to be learning from watching the other kids... LOL. SO: my question - care to talk me out of trying to do the same with Spanish instruction? I keep wanting to ASK teachers if they'd do this for us; I have one that is interested now! Our goals: DD(12) wants to achieve fluency some day. I would like to at least be conversationally fluent and able to at least understand what DD is working on WRT written work, even if I can't correct/grade it. Our background: I grew up in TX so I think I have a better ear than average, and took 2 years in middle school (2 years French in high school - wanted some variety. Oh how I regret that choice). DD had a few years Spanish experience at her Montessori school but since she was at the top of her class in mastering the material, she ended up with a lot of wasted time. She also has had about 1.5 years of Latin and the only thing slowing us down has been that I have been trying to learn it alongside her and we often don't get to it when things are busy. Her grammar skills are excellent for her age IMO. Our situation: I'm already thinking of outsourcing some classes (online and IRL), and possibly bringing a 2nd grader home to homeschool next year. I worry about adding another class because of how much traveling we'll end up doing. If the pace is slower than DD is capable of (especially if it is significantly slower) then I don't think that's the best use of limited time during the week, KWIM? I think DD could handle high school level Spanish, except for (written?) output and it is possible the pacing might be at the top of her range. My ideal: Instructor comes to us and does instruction for us as a family (me, DD12 and DD7), say once per week or every other week. I acknowledge that DD7 will get left in the dust pretty quickly but she has had several years exposure at her Montessori school and could probably still pick some things up from hanging out with us while we work. She could color or do worksheets or something? During the interim between meetings with the instructor, we would work on assignments, which would include conversational practice. Teacher selects and grades all assignments and tests. Workable? Bad idea? Suggestions?

Have you been to CBN's superbook site?

I love it, theoretically. DD12 hated it, we couldn't get past the 4th unit without. tears (and not because it was too hard; if anything it was too much review for where we came from)

I'm interested in whatever you have, be it a guide, a lecture, whatever!!! Maybe future WTM online conferences?

For the record, JA is still a hit. I was just re-reading the recently bumped Pre-Algebra fence-straddlers thread and was reminded how much I thought Foerster might be a good fit for us/her, but if MWB is our only option for online/video teaching...well.....IDK that that is a good fit. Would love to know if I have any other choices! And I was also reminded that it might be a mistake to switch to AoPS, since we've had a bad reaction to the Pre-A sample. Definitely gives me pause about committing to a year-long course like the WTMA one. So otherwise, at least at the moment, we are going to push forward with the Arbor books.

Oh, and also, it is my understanding that the campus directors do not have any say about staffing of Challenge "directors," as they are their own independent contractors that I assume must be direct reports to the SM/AM. They collect their own tuition and handle their own registration. That must get complicated when they must partner with the F/E director who does all the arranging (and paying?!) for location, child care, etc., to share a location for expediency and convenience for parents with children in multiple levels. I would assume this is a holdover from when CC was primarily Challenge-driven (that program came BEFORE Foundations and Essentials), and that well-established "directors" saw no need to relinquish the authority they had held for ages. Interesting the PP's comments about hard rules being bent....I haven't heard of any in our area; we have had parents having to shuttle Challenge kids to other campuses.

It is also my understanding that they are now requiring tutors to have all of their Challenge-aged children enrolled in Challenge, which also limits the pool of available tutors (who might otherwise have the passion and skills (and experience!) to teach and teach well but have unique needs that might dictate making other educational choices for even 1 of their children (eg athletics?)). Until the pace of growth slows, experienced Challenge tutors are more likely to be the exception than the rule, I would think. And even then, ongoing turnover would be expected as tutors' kids all age out of CC (i.e., graduate).

Will you tell me more about how that looks for you kathkath?

Maybe I just have a concern about too much scripting...I like incremental for my own peace of mind, and I think this DD would like CLE for its independence - the get-r-done aspect! But she also I think is hungry for conceptual as well, and enjoys solving puzzles so conceptual math like BA seems right up her alley. Wondering if the old FLL (level 1&2 in one book and combined (?) with what became WWE?). Because I would also like to eventually do TC.

I think my DD could tolerate the scripted-ness of WWE but not FLL (or maybe that's because I have a harder time imagining alternatives to WWE?)

Hi, I see start times but havent found the info on how long the class periods are (interested in intro to expository writing and aops algebra)

I wish right start had a more detailed placement test, but DD7 placed into RS D (except for one area that may need a little shoring up iirc). I'm leaning away rom CLE as primary and more toward using it for review? We have MM as well but I think DD will be more drawn to conceptual/materials based like Montessori/RS. I might feel more secure in trying to "do" Montessori-ish math if the have a safety net (CLE for review?)?

Bump?

If it IS unrealistic to do them together, next choices are probably looking at R&S and CLE Bible??? But could I do a year or two together first to lay the foundation (overview, covenantal view....) and THEN individualize?