Hello, would appreciate hearing anyone's experience with aops online classes. I am considering an aops prealgebra online class (have not decided on prealgebra 1 or 2) for my 4th grade son, who enjoys math and likes to participate in math competitions such as math counts, amc 8, etc. Since this class costs over $300 and requires regular time commitment, I am wondering if a student can learn the material by just studying the aops prealgebra book. Specifically, I am wondering if the online class would allow students to learn the material at a deeper level, making the cost worthwhile. Also, I suppose it would be easier for a 4th grader to learn the material through an online class vs. on his own, which would require a greater self-discipline. Thx. a ton in advance for your response.

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So...I thought since there are quite a few threads going now on the topic of Pre-Algebra, it might be helpful to have one master thread to discuss texts, and to link to previous conversations. (Links at the bottom) I will post a link to my blog once I get photos up, as I know some of the texts are hard to preview online (Lial's, in particular) I have received Dolciani PreAlgebra: An Accelerated Course (1985) and Lial's Pre-Algebra Third Edition in the mail this past week. I already own Lial's BCM and AoPS Pre-A. So I think I have shopped enough that I can now safely make my decision...:D Initial impressions of Dolciani and Lials: Dolciani Pre Algebra: An Accelerated Course 1985 thorough, dry, no color, few pictures/images, black text with some color fonts as headers to different sections. Problems: divided into A (basic) B (more challenging) and C (challenging) problems. Word problems are dull, but serviceable. If your child didn't have trouble with Singapore CWP, he/she won't find these too hard, certainly not in the first part of the book. Odd answers in the back of the student book. Percents Chapter has the following sections: Percent of Increase or Decrease, Discount and Markup, Commision and Profit, Percents and Proportions, Simple Interest, Compound Interest, Percents and Problem Solving. Sample Word Problem: Gilbert wants to borrow $2250 for 3 years to remodel his garage. The annual rate is 18%. If the principal and interest are to be repaid in equal monthly installments, how much will each installment be? Sample Word PRoblem 2: If a car uses 5 gallons of gas to travel 160 miles, how many gallons would the car use in traveling 96 mi Lial's Pre-Algebra, Third Edition: Thorough, more visually appealing than Dolciani. Some might say it's more visually cluttered, but I don't agree. I think the colored fonts are used well to highlight important information. Sidebars on each page provide problems that are linked directly to the text they are next to, so it's easy to pinpoint areas of weakness in your student. Word problems seem more 'real-life'. Each chapter has sub-sections outlining how to solve different sorts of problems. For example, the Percent chapter has subsections entitled: Changing Percents to Decimals by Moving the Decimal Point, Changing Decimals to Percents by Moving the Decimal Point, Wrting Percents as Fractions, Writing Decimal Percents or Fractions Percents as Fractions, Writing Fractions as Percents, Finding 100% of a Number, Finding 50% of a Number. Each explanation is clear and shows a few examples. Sample Word Problem:In the hospital pharmacy, Michiko sees that a medicine is to be given at a rate of 3.5 mg for every 50 lbs of body weight. How much medicine should be given to a patient weighing 210 pounds? As point of reference, this question shows up about halfway through the book. Sample Word Problem 2: Ms Henderson owes $1900 in taxes. She is charged a penalty of 12 1/4 % annual interest and pays the taxes and penalty after 6 months. How much does she pay? Both text have built-in review and self-tests. I think Lial's has more concrete examples, Dolciani assumes a bit more. Lials' questions seem more...interesting. With Lial's I think you'd have to be careful that your child wasn't just following the steps: the steps are so clear, that a child could potentially follow formulas rather than truly understand the concept. Throwing in some Singapore CWP 6 or AoPS Pre-A would certainly reveal that. Dolciani is more old-fashioned and perhaps less suitable to a younger child. Okay, so I have more to say, and want to talk about AoPS and BCM too, but I'm tired and I'd rather here what others have to say. Links to recent threads on Pre-A: Thread 1 Thread 2 Thread 3 Thread 4 Thread 5 Thread 6

My seventh grade daughter, age 12, is working through AOPS pre-algebra right now. She is a good math student and enjoys math. She aspires to be an engineer some day. She is frustrated daily by AOPS but is loathe to switch programs. I think she might benefit from a supplemental text to offer a little more practice and more explanation when the discovery method fails her. Thoughts? Suggestions?

We school year round, so except for online classes, we start and finish whenever we start and finish. So it looks like we will finish AoPS PreCalculus by December. The plan is for dd15 to take AP calculus next year with an online course, starting in the fall. Since she hasn't had discrete math, I was thinking about starting her on AoPS Intermediate C&P. But I know she (ever the planner) will want to do what she can to prepare for AP Calc BC. (She has a good handle on PreCalc, solving all but the Putnam, IMO, and similar problems, lol.) What are your ideas for math for the rest of the school year and possibly the summer?

Was checking on DS10's class starting next week and saw that they now have a "My Goals" tab. Depending on what days of the week you click on for doing work, the system generate a suggested work schedule. Really cool for my kid who still needs some hand holding in terms of planning.

Do you recommend AOPS or Teaching Textbooks for Algebra I? What are the strengths and weaknesses of each? We are currently using AOPS for Prealgebra and love it. I am strong in math and don't mind teaching it. A friend of mine loves Teaching Textbooks, so I was curious about how it compares with AOPS.

D13 is a 8th grade public school kid D13 "afterschooled" Foerster Algebra I in 7th grade while taking Algebra I in 7th grade at school. She did great with both. She has been resistent to really try AOPS pre algebra and Intro to Algebra texts (Have them both). I asked her to go through the AOPS Intro Alg text and work on anything she did have in Foerster. She is doing fine with this and not geting frustrated like she has before everytime she try AoPS. Question: Woud it be ok to start AOPS intermediate while taking geometry in public school? I was thinking we could slowly work on AoPS and supplement with Foerster Alg 2. I was not planning on supplementing on formally doing an afterschool text on geometry but using youtube to help as needed. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Hi All, I have been wondering for some time now how the WTMA math courses have been going? Yet the silence is almost deafening. Maybe I missed the memo? :D While they are still relatively new, I have been a little surprised with the lack of comments. I sort of chalk it up to a) folks not wanting to say something which might offend (e.g. had some issues) or b) not wanting seem overly excited about something which may come off as disingenuous. So, I decided to simply ask outright for some honest feedback. Knowing the thoughtfulness of this group, I would expect those sharing their real experiences to be sincere. I'm sure Susan wouldn't mind hearing both praise and constructive criticism. I'll start out with being honest regarding my take on the offerings. We are not fans of Saxon. So, that leaves us with AoPS/Singapore courses. Those I find interesting for 'some' kids. Ds went through AoPS Intro to Algebra before WTMA had courses and it was his most challenging course. I realized then that their advertising was correct. AoPS is definitely 'not' for every student. In fact, it is probably not the right fit for most students due to the level of challenge and difficulty built-in by design. So, for our younger dds, I'm not sure there would be a fit for them at the WTMA. For ds14, he is already beyond the scope of their current offerings. But still, I can't help but wonder how things are going for other families?

I ordered just the book and online version for youngest as I already had the solutions manual when ordering the book for oldest. My oldest boy's textbook is too worn out for hand me down. Intermediate Algebra soft copy textbook + online book = $59 + $64 = $123 Intermediate Algebra soft copy textbook + online book + soft copy solutions manual = $83 The combo with the solutions manual is $40 cheaper. I sent an email to AoPS to let them know that their pricing is making me buy combos next time to save $40 and have extra solutions manuals. They sent me the wrong book so I had to email them for wrong shipment anyway.

Just a FYI: Aops is now A-G accredited:-) https://www.artofproblemsolving.com/school/how-school-works/faqs#accreditation

Just a a FYI: I saw on the Aops homepage that it is now accredited for UC A-G requirements! Here's the link: https://www.artofproblemsolving.com/school/how-school-works/faqs#accreditation

We just finished chapter 1 of AoPS prealgebra and DS 11 is totally balking at writing out the problems. He's always hated to write, but many of the exercise, review, and challenge problems required him to cross things out, regroup, etc., and sometimes he really needed to have the numbers on a sheet in front of him. I wrote out a few for him, but it was long and tedious and not how I want to spend my time. Do your kids willingly write out the problems if they need to manipulate the numbers? I thought of making copies of these sections, but the way they are spaced on the sheet doesn't offer much room for writing either. The math in this chapter was no problem and I'd like to continue, but I don't want each day to be a writing battle. Is it just my kid?

Once in a year I got math anxiety :) This year I'm worried about 'finishing in time'. So I wondered how long it takes to cover AoPS Intro to Algebra and / or LoF Trigonometry. In your answer I want to know, how much time you devoted to math per week, what was included ( using other material outside the book) what was skipped (challenge problems, chapters). And how many months you needed. Is LoF Trig a whole year or a semester book? (Or even less?) As dd is in the language track, she will have 3-4 hours math per week during grade 11/12. We won't have time for 6+ hours math per week. Thanks for answering! ETA: tags

DS10 just completed AOPS online prealgebra class and is a little intimidated at the idea of starting the algebra class. The class was a good pace and skill but he needed help thinking through some of the challenge problems. Any ideas? Do we continue (we can do alcumus before the start of class), take a break and do zacarro algebra, LOF algebra, AOPS AMC 8 basics (never done any math competition) Any other ideas? Thanks.

Thought you guys might be interested in this article about accelerated math education in The Atlantic Monthly. The piece does not mention homeschooling directly, but does state [emphasis mine], "The students are being produced by a new pedagogical ecosystem—almost entirely extracurricular—that has developed online and in the country’s rich coastal cities and tech meccas. In these places, accelerated students are learning more and learning faster than they were 10 years ago—tackling more-complex material than many people in the advanced-math community had thought possible." http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/03/the-math-revolution/426855/

Does anyone have more info about this particular class, or is it just known that there will be one? I know in the AOPS online classes, the algebra B is the end of the Intro to Algebra book. But of course that book does not include all of the topics traditionally concluded in an algebra 2 honors class, because intermediate algebra will be next and those topics will be included then. But I assume that many or most students who enroll in WTMA are not going to be looking for the full AOPS sequence, and so will be going from algebra 2 to precalculus and then calculus. Or is that a false assumption? (Maybe they are going to continue two tracks, one with all the AOPS a texts and then a more traditional math sequence as well?). So if I sign up for AOPS a algebra 2 with WTMA, I am wondering about the next step. Since their AOPS algebra 1 only goes through chapter 10, I would guess the algebra 2 is when quadratics will initially be covered, so I don't know how they will finish the intro to algebra book and also add in the additional topics. Anyone have insight? (Edited to add tags)

Passing along. Didn't see this shared here. Looks very interesting! MIT Primes/ Art of Problem Solving Crowd Math

DS 12 started AOPS Introductory Geometry last week and is enjoying it so far. One thing that he is missing are the videos that he used with AOPS Algebra and C&P courses before. In checking with AOPS folks, there is no definitive time frame for those videos. Has anyone paired the AOPS chapters/ class with videos from other sources (Khan academy etc)? Would love any suggestions for videos that could accompany the AOPS geometry course.

Hi, My son will be taking Int Number Theory through AoPS in the spring. He has taken Intro to NT and all the other Intro courses. One thing that will be new to my son is that there isn't Alcumus and there isn't a book. Alcumus has been so helpful in the past. My son really liked solving the problems and learning from the solutions when he was unable to solve the problems correctly. He plans on re-reading the Intro NT before class starts. I should have printed out the transcripts of the Intro to NT class, but I never saved them. Do you have any suggestions for resources that might help study for the course? Books, online lectures or anything you think might help? Thanks

Hi, I'm ready to start my 10 year-old son on AoPS Prealgebra. I'm new to the middle-school / high-school part of AoPS, and really don't know what would all be necessary to get started. I see there are lots of you, moms and dads, here, who have experience with AoPS. AoPS offers the paperback textbook (with solutions), in addition to the online textbook. One can purchase just the paperback, or just the online book, or the combo (paperback + online book) . So, the question is, is it enough to just buy the paperback version? Or would adding the online version as well enhance the learning experience? From what I can see, one can access Alcumus and all videos for free anyway. I'm inclined to think just the paperback is enough, but wanted to consult with you so I can make a more educated decision. Thank you so much for any tips and guidance!!

Anyone planning to take the new Stretch Algebra class with AOPS? We are debating on that vs. the regular Algebra for our DS 10 who is finishing up Pre- Algebra 2 with AOPS. We attended the math jam on the class this Tuesday and are intrigued by the new format of 2 hour class with one hour instruction and one hour problem solving. Apart from the 2 hour class, they will cover the similar content in 22 weeks with stretch vs 16 weeks for regular course. It feels like the pace will be more like Pre algebra than their other courses?

Posting this for a friend: I'm stuck in my math decision making process. Gene did the Saxon math placement test and blew through the algebra readiness. I had him do the algebra 2 test out of curiosity, but he could only do about half the problems. He also did the AoPS algebra readiness, and scored exactly what they say is needed (the minimum) to start the algebra book. I agree with you that he needs a deeper understanding of math, but I also don't want to frustrate him to the point of tears. Would you suggest we start the AoPS and revert to Saxon if it's too hard? Her son Gene, age 11, is VERY good at math. In fact, he is the most mathematically talented youngster I've met. And he loves challenging math problems. I absolutely believe he belongs in AoPS not Saxon, but maybe AoPS Algebra is too much at this point. Would it make sense for him to start with AoPS Pre-Algebra? Or he could start with AoPS Algebra and then move back to AoPS Pre-Algebra if necessary?

Talk to me about using Teaching Textbooks or Saxon Math (instead of Aops or some other mathy curricula) if you have mathy kids. I was about to buy Aops algebra and realized that some people stick to curricula like TT and Saxon for their very capable math students. Why? What do you like about it?

DS noticed and started using the mathcounts trainer today (http://artofproblemsolving.com/mathcounts_trainer/) and loves it. Not sure if this is new or not. Would like to know if anyone else has used it and how do they like it. Also are there are other similar trainers out there??