Semifinalists declared in early September. Finalists declared in mid-February. Scholars declared in May.

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We did something similar to what Pam did. We listed S/D as an extracurricular on college apps for Ds17, but the platform speeches he wrote were included in his English "class" which I made, and listed in my course descriptions. Platform speeches in our league include persuasive, original oratory (informative), expository (informative with slides or props), and motivational. For instance, his "English 10" course description included "...research skills, expository and persuasive writing, interpretive speech writing..." He did other things for English in 10th grade, including prep for the AP English Lit exam, but the persuasive speech was a big part of his writing for the year. He rewrote that thing after every tournament. For those of you who are sitting on the fence about S/D, it is VERY valuable. We have four local speech tournaments this year (within an hour an a half of where we live). At each tournament the student gives his/her speech at least three times for three different judges. The judges fill out a feedback form for the student, so the student gets feedback from nine different people. Plus, our students are in a club where they get to practice every week, with feedback from parents who know them. It is a challenging but worthwhile experience. Right now Ds16 is working on an original oratory speech. He's rewritten it after the first tournament, making a to-do list from his feedback. He's improved his logic and research, and is learning a lot!

Thanks for your posts, Ruth. You are doing a great job parenting your child in a high stakes competition!

Just a FYI about growing cauliflower. It is the most difficult of the cabbage family to grow, because it likes cool but not cold weather. That's always been a problem for me in VA. It turns from cold to hot here quickly in the spring, so I don't bother with it then. Then it needs to be babied when I start it in summer for fall harvest. Of course it gets the cabbage worms, flea beetles, and harlequin bugs that most other brassicas get. Some types have to be blanched so that's more to do. And you don't get much food for the space. Kale, broccoli, and Asian greens like tatsoi are much easier to grow than cauliflower.

I didn't take precalc in high school, either; we had a semester each of advanced algebra and trig. That's basically what Chalkdust, the program we use that uses the Larson precalc book, does, but Larson includes analytic geometry as well. I didn't have analytic geometry until calc. You can check out the list of precalc topics on Chalkdust.com - sorry, I don't know how to link from my iPad. The Larson book spends quite a bit of time reviewing algebra I and II, which I like. We skip the last chapter on limits because it is the same as Chapter 1 of the Larson calc book. Limits are not precalc. The college-prep Larson books do not have stats, so when our 3rd dc prepped for the SAT II Math 2 exam, he made sure he learned the handful of stats concepts from a prep book. I wouldn't say the stats is precalc, but you could also check out the topics for the SAT II Math 2 exam. Both of our oldest two dc did very well as math majors, so they felt they were well prepared by Chalkdust. Dd also thought logic was excellent prep as well. She did feel CD was heavy on computation and said she would have benefited from more proofs. That made me laugh because geometry proofs were a struggle with her. She loved her college proofs class, though! Go figure.

Dh and I each have a BSEE, our oldest double majored in CS and math at Virginia Tech (CS in the engineering dept), and our second oldest double majored in biochem and math. That said, I feel hesitant to reply here because I am not up on the current status of EE and ChemE degree admissions. Following are some things I do know from experience. I consider Virginia Tech a top engineering school, both now and in the dark ages (the '80s) when dh and I attended, especially for EE and ChemE. It is most certainly not as theoretical an education as someplace like MIT or Stanford, but graduates have a good job placement rate, etc. Math at VT for engineers is taught as problem solving to provide tools for the engineering courses. You are expected to have a good basic understanding of math, a "feel" for it. VT has a large number of students who come from the DC metro area (Northern Virginia, or NOVA) and Albemarle County/Charlottesville (where UVa is located). Many of these students have rigorous (at least on paper) high school math and science educations. One of Ds's roommates had MV calc in high school, not DE, and he was from a town MD near U of Maryland. Many others have similar backgrounds, especially those who attended Thomas Jefferson HS, which still has a rigorous program. Keep in mind that at many engineering schools the students are required to take a math placement exam at the beginning of freshman year, no matter what classes they took in high school, or what their AP scores or DE grades are. Many students took a placement exam at VT and found they didn't remember enough of Calc I or II to place ahead. Also keep in mind that if a student cannot be in lock step with the math sequence at a university, that student will become behind in prereqs for engineering courses and will probably (or most certainly) not be able to graduate on time. Lots of engineering students are on the 5-year plan, taking reduced loads for 10 semesters so they can maintain a gpa, work a campus job, just keep up, etc. It is much harder to be admitted to VT's engineering program than to the university at large or to even the honors program. Ds has a friend who was homeschooled through high school, taking some DE classes at the CC, who was accepted to VT and its honors program but rejected from engineering because he had taken no calculus or physics. The engineering dept said that all the other accepted students that year had taken both. Ds's friend ended up going to the CC for a year before transferring into the engineering program at UVa. He graduated successfully, albeit on the 5-year plan, as an ME. Back in the day, DH had only math through precalc through his rural high school. I had through calc AB and placed out of Calc I at VT. Calc II was HARD. I did ok but it took me a while to figure out how to do college math because the pace was twice as fast as at high school. AB spreads out Calc I for an entire year, so taking Calc II in one semester was a big adjustment. Plus, my instructor had a chip on his shoulder about women in math/engineering (iow he was an unhelpful jerk). I believe that it is very important for admissions for a potential engineering major to get in a calc class in high school, but I believe it is even more important to be absolutely rock solid in Algebra and Precalc. I would say that most of the errors students have in Calc are from algebra and trig. If your student can score at least a 700 on the SAT II Math Level 2 exam (800 or close to it would be better), then you can safely say he/she is ready for Calc. If not, it is time to review and solidify concepts and skills. The other thing that I believe is very important for a pre-engineering student is to make sure he/she really wants to be a engineer. Does the student want to work in a chemical or pharmaceutical factory (Chem E)? How about staring long hours at a computer screen designing a chip for a cell phone? Does the student have what it takes to stay in the lab for many, many hours of unpaid overtime making sure a project works, or cleaning up the mess of a senior (but inept) engineer's design? Please make sure the realities of an engineering job are ok with your student. Also, make sure your student is taught to be careful and detail oriented. I've seen a lot of messy engineers make their lives and the lives of those they work with miserable because they are sloppy and careless. Just my $0.02, fwiw.

Just an FYI if you like Crocs shoes. They have a sale that ends at 11:59 PM MST tonight. They have many styles on clearance, a 30% off sale styles coupon on their website, and free shipping for orders over $24.99. I have a size 6 foot, so I had a lot of choices. The five pairs of shoes I ordered, with shipping and tax, cost $64.06 total. And just in time because my garden clogs are almost worn out. :) Hope this helps somebody.

Good for you! Dh fixed our dryer last summer, and when he did he took it apart and cleaned the lint out of every nook and cranny. There was so much since we had bought it used from the ReStore. Years ago someone on the wtm forums had a dryer fire. Scary!

I'm very sorry, Garga. I hope this Christmas turns out better than you thought it would. Hugs. :(

This frosting is time-consuming to make, but it is the best I've ever had. Whipped Chocolate Frosting Makes about 3 1/2 cups Adapted from the March 1990 issue of Southern Living Magazine 1 1/3 cups heavy whipping cream 1 1/2 cups sugar (regular, not confectioner's) 16 tablespoons butter (two sticks) 1 1/8 cups cocoa powder 1 1/2 tsp. vanilla extract pinch of salt if using unsalted butter 1. In a medium saucepan, bring the cream and sugar to a boil over moderately high heat. Reduce heat to low and simmer, stirring occasionally, until the liquid reduces slightly, about 6 minutes. Pour the mixture into a medium bowl and add the cocoa powder, butter, vanilla, and salt. Let it stand, stirring occasionally, until the chocolate and butter are melted. 2. Set the bowl in a larger bowl of ice water. This works well in the kitchen sink. Check your setup to make sure the frosting bowl doesn't tip into the ice water. Let the frosting sit for a while until it thickens slightly. Using a hand-held electric mixer, beat the frosting, starting on slow speed, then increasing to medium-high speed. Scrape the sides of the bowl occasionally. Beat until it's thick and glossy. If it's too splashy, leave it in the ice water bowl to sit for a while longer. The process of beating and sitting can take 30+ minutes, and depends on how warm it is in the room. The frosting is done when its color becomes somewhat lighter and it is thick enough to spread. 3. Store the cake frosted with this frosting in the refrigerator.

Here are some Boy Scout links. I had no idea all of their merit badge info was on a searchable wiki. Thanks for the tip! Searchable wiki for BSA merit badge info: http://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page Whittling Chip, the card that certifies that a Cub Scout may carry a pocketknife: http://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php/Whittling_Chip The Whittling Chip Course, complete with quiz (there are lots of these things on the net, but you have to know the name of it): http://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php/Whittling_Chip_Course Totin' Chip, that certifies a Boy Scout may carry and use an axe, saw, and pocketknife (search for teaching curriculum): http://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php/Totin'_Chip This is fun!

Great ideas and links! Thanks to everyone. We have a lot of soap - maybe a bar of that can go into her stocking with the knife. :)

Thank you for the encouragement and ideas, everyone! I won't (ahem) tell her that much younger children have pocketknives. Thanks also for the ideas. If anyone has links to good, inexpensive knives, I'd really appreciate it!

Dd13 has been pestering for a pocketknife, which she says is the only thing she wants as a Christmas present. Actually, she's been asking for one for years, especially when we see displays of them at yard sales and the county fair (maybe that's regional?). She says she wants one mostly for whittling. So I have a couple of questions: 1. Do you think it's a good idea? We're pretty safety conscious, but she can be rather impulsive at times (no major issues, though). 2. What kind would you get? She's picked out a very inexpensive one that I believe she'll ultimately be disappointed with, but we won't be able to swing a very pricey item. Thanks! GardenMom

TeenCoder Java has videos for purchase. Three of our dc have used it, and we've been quite pleased with the program. They did not use the videos, only the text. That said, some students need extra help getting through the course, and most still need fairly extensive prep for the AP exam if they have that as a goal.

A friend of mine's oldest got an online bachelor's degree in criminal justice, taking several CLEPs and many online courses. After he graduated he worked as a security guard, then joined the Air Force. He's in officer's training school, just finished basic, and is now an officer. It was a good path for him. He is: - a decent student, but not terribly academic; smart but not the intellectual type. - the kind of person who learns things experientially (i.e., the hard way according to his parents). - athletic - he played soccer from the time he was very young through college on rec teams, etc. He also worked out in other ways. His parents were a big part of the process. I wouldn't say they pushed, but they definitely facilitated and were there all the way through. The mom worked out many details of the online degree. The process was not all smooth. The young man ended up moving out during this time because of family dynamics/personality clashes/etc. Best wishes figuring out what works for your son. Being a guidance counselor/advocate for your student is tough, no matter what type of schooling he does. It doesn't end at high school graduation. This young man seems very happy with his path. I am very proud to know him; he is a nice person and has his head on straight.

Thanks for this!

Mine are really boring: English 9 English 10 English 11 English 12 Here are my course descriptions: English 9 A college-preparatory course teaching expository writing, editing, research skills, grammar, and vocabulary. Texts: Communicating Effectively, Book One, by Rod and Staff Publishers, Inc.; and Writing With Skill 1 by Susan Wise Bauer. English 10 (Preparation for the AP English Literature and Composition Exam) A college-preparatory course teaching literature interpretation, research skills, expository and persuasive writing, interpretive speech writing, and preparation for the AP English Literature and Composition Exam and the SAT Literature Subject Exam. Texts: Writing With Skill 2 and Writing With Skill 3 by Susan Wise Bauer; How to Read Literature Like a Professor by Thomas C. Foster; Barron’s AP English Literature and Composition, 2nd Edition by George Ehrenhaft; and CliffsNotes AP English Literature and Composition, 2nd Edition by Allan Casson. Video Instruction: Teaching the Classics: A Socratic Method for Literary Education by Adam and Missy Andrews. English 11 (Preparation for the AP English Language and Composition Exam) A college-preparatory course teaching research skills, expository writing, interpretive speech writing, and rhetoric, and preparation for the AP English Language and Composition Exam. Texts: A Rulebook for Arguments by Anthony Weston, Biblical Worldview Rhetoric by Shaunna K. Howat; and CliffsNotes AP English Language and Composition, 3rd Edition by Barbara V. Swovelin. English 12 A college-preparatory course teaching expository writing, editing, research skills, grammar, and vocabulary. Texts: Communicating Effectively, Book Two, by Rod and Staff Publishers, Inc.; The New Oxford Guide to Writing by Thomas S. Kane; and They Say I Say: The Moves That Matter in Academic Writing, 2nd Edition by Gerald Graff and Cathy Birkenstein. Ds wrote/is writing papers, essays, and speeches (including a two speeches that were basically research papers), and will write a research paper next spring. I went back and forth between "college-preparatory" and "college-level" for the courses that were AP prep, but I settled on "prep" because ds was not in a class for lit discussion, and because I used WWS in high school. Ds got 5s on both of the English APs. HTH, GardenMom

I live in the area. Living here: - It's pretty rural, and Winchester has a fairly small-town feel. People are nice. The county fairs are still a big deal, and lots of people have small hobby farms, with at least chickens and horses. - It depends on the traffic and how you drive, but I would allow 2 hours to get to the attractions in downtown D.C. We get to D.C. a couple of times a year. - It is much, much cheaper to live in Winchester and the surrounding area than in Loudoun County or other points east. - There are things to do, but it depends on what you like. It will all be on a smaller scale than for a place like Atlanta. The Apple Blossom (not Apple Day) festival is popular. There is no science museum in Winchester, but there is a children's museum (The Discovery Museum), but 12-year-olds would probably be almost too old for it. The local college is Shenandoah University. SU is well known for their music, business, PA, and nursing schools. There are plenty of music opportunities for homeschoolers there. I know some people who work at SU and they like it there. Homeschooling: - The activities here are mostly Christian, but there are very, very few traditional homeschooling groups. I know of a small inclusive unschooling group, but it has mostly younger children. There is a small Christian traditional group in Winchester, and a Christian Mom's Night Out in Purcellville. - Most families are super busy pursuing academics and extracurriculars, probably because there is so much available to do. - Many families in the area join one of the three different academic co-ops available. All three are Christian, but they seem to be inclusive. - Most students I know of dual enroll at the local community college, Lord Fairfax CC. There is no free dual enrollment. HTH. Feel free to pm me for more info. GardenMom

(((Scoutermom))) I mostly lurk, but I just wanted to give you a virtual hug. I'm sorry the weekend was a bummer for you! I believe I know which school your son attends but I won't mention it here. It has a reputation for being as you described, but it also has one for being a place of academic excellence and wonderful opportunities. From what I have heard your son is doing well in avoiding the frats there. Yes, the social life is dominated by Greeks at that school, and there are a lot of ribald parties. Yes, he is feeling out-of-place. But, yes, there are probably MANY students at that school who are feeling the same way. He just needs to find them. I hope he gives it a year-long chance, and that it works out for him. Blessings, GardenMom

Oldest ds grew a pineapple plant! We learned how to do it from the Klutz Kids Gardening book years ago. We never got a pineapple, though, so kudos to you for managing it! We kept ours in our kitchen until it grew into a monster that scratched us as we walked by. Then I composted it. :( Please let us know how your fruit tastes.

Thanks to all who carved out the time to make it! And those of you who couldn't - you were missed. Garga, you are an awesome photographer! Quill's cupcakes were so delicious I had two (and wanted more). Congrats to xixstar!!!! Your little man is adorable. It was fun, and I'm looking forward to getting together in the spring. :)

First of all, congratulations to you and your son! My ds and I are working on his NM app, and I put a comment listing his AP exams and scores on the "Additional comments on grading system or high school profile" part of the application in the School Profile. I have no idea if that is the correct place, but since he self-studied for all of them but one, and we did not get CB approval for most, I thought I'd stick it in there. It probably doesn't matter, though. From what I've heard, they are just looking for the "dings" listed above: poor grades or a poor SAT score, poor character, or other issue. Hope the rest of the process is quick and easy for you. What I don't like is that the recommender doesn't get the app until we're all done.