I don't think disagreeing with the groups legislative agenda, is the same as dismissing their concerns. I actually think their concerns are very important, so important that I think focussing on government regulation of homeschooling to address them might be a mistake. The cult my family grew up in was able to control and isolate even with my parents generation who were in public school. My generation, which my parents saved me from, was homeschooled primarily. Many of them are functionally illiterate. But many of them were in high regulation countries and states. Then the cult changed its tactic and created their own "private schools", since the poorly educated generation was not bringing much money into the supreme leaders coffers. The private schools actually seem to be a better "control" tactic than homeschooling, since homeschooling tended to vary by family. Now they are able to indoctrinate the children all day. Now obviously this is a different group that the patriarchal one that is the primary concern here. But I know a lot of "cult" survivors. Every relative I have 5 or more years older than me is either an escapee or a member. I see this group, of recent escapees who has been trained in government activism against government regulation, thinking the solution must be government activism for government regulation, specifically of homeschooling. It takes many years to break out of the deep programming these control groups employ. They are still embroiled in it. They controlled us, maybe if we control them things will be better. But I think this will not address their legitimate concerns. And it won't change anything. Even if you outlaw homeschooling entirely, these control and isolate groups will still control and isolate. The problem is not homeschooling, it is a tool - a knife can be used to perform life saving surgery, slice onions, or murder someone. Now knives of course do not have an extensive community around them like homeschooling does. So it is reasonable and makes sense for those who have been hurt in part by the tool of homeschooling to have a response from the homeschooling community ( although the homeschooling community is so varied, I think there are many who have no obligation to be involved). However it is not reasonable to present there concerns as an issue for the majority of the homeschooling community. But I completely understand why they would since they probably have a very limited understanding of the homeschooling community at large.

I use Singapore as my spine. I throw Fred in for fun once or twice a week, if we get to it. I also use Fred when we need a math break. When a concept is sinking in, or we are struggling with something and need to look at things differently for a week or so. We might just read Fred for a few days. My oldest loves math though. She moves through Singapore quickly, and then occasionally gets stuck, so Fred works well for us to regroup. My 4 y/o loves Fred too. The books are definitely reread-able. I am sure kids could get different things out of them each time.

The homeschool apostate article was interesting. The problem I see is this. They are identifying the problem as homeschooling, that just isn't the case. Homeschooling just happens to be a tool that cult like religious groups use. It is not the cause of the problem. The religious cult is. My parents grew up in a religious cult. They attended public school. The whole exile/exodus story rings true to my experience as second generation "shunned" But I wouldn't say my grandparents were abusive, even though my paternal grandparents went to their graves shunning us. Teaching your kids faulty theology/philosophy and then rejecting them if they reject it is not abuse. It is heartbreaking and it is awful, as I said I have experience with it, but it is not abusive. Also, regulations aren't helpful. The cult my parents grew up in did switch to homeschooling to increase their control. From what I understand many of my cousins had a poor education, one of them reached out to my parents when considering escaping, I am so thankful that my parents had the courage to leave when I was a toddler. But my cousins were homeschooled in NY state, hardly a low regulation state. The laws didn't make a difference. Now as I said, though I find the whole thing heartbreaking, it simply is not illegal. I realize there are some legitimate cases of abuse, and they are easier to conceal with homeschooling, there are plenty of concealed cases in public school as well though. But it seems they are speaking out against the tools used and not the cause. The one article stated that 2/3 of homeschoolers were religious fundamentalists. That seems to be a gross exaggeration if they are meaning fundamentalist as in the uber control patriarchal isolationist types. That certainly isn't my experience. They also lump a lot of more mainstream religious leaders, like Dobson, who although I don't agree with him on everything, is not at all the type of patriarchal fundamentalist that they are describing. There are a lot of misleading correlations and inferences in the article. I really do feel for these people. I am totally in a "there but for the grace of God, would have been I" position. And I am all for raising awareness about the dangers of the patriarchal fundamentalist movement. And I think that raising awareness among homeschoolers is important, since homeschoolers are more likely to come in contact with or be influenced by these groups. But, I don't believe regulating homeschooling or identifying the problem as homeschooling is the solution.

I go to church in Washington, IL. Our congregation was huddled in the church basement. My friend and I were in a bathroom with the children singing every Sunday school song we could think of. The tornado was less than a mile from our church. Afterwards my friend discovered her home was destroyed. At least 5 families in our church of 150 people lost their home, maybe more. Several more had significant damage. We stayed at church for quite a while. We had a potluck scheduled anyway. Some of the families whose homes were destroyed sought shelter and food at church. My girls were the more useful than I, playing with the kids who have no homes right now, and distracting them. I just hugged my friend, and helped her think about what you do next when your home and your neighborhood are leveled. We live several miles away and our home is fine, we even have power. But we all feel a bit traumatized. The girls know their friends don't have homes tonight. They heard the sirens for hours, saw the fear of the adults as we hid under tables/in bathrooms in the church basement. As far as we know all of our friends/acquaintances are safe and have a place to sleep tonight. We just prayed that everyone would have a good nice sleep. I hope I do. My brain is fried and I recently spent 30 minutes trying to explain insurance to my contemplative 6 y/o who is concerned about her friends.

Actually I believe that all history textbooks are biased. It is almost impossible for them not to be since they are written by human beings, and all human beings are biased. (Though some may be more biased than others, all are biased). Even if the least biased person around wrote the book directly from primary sources it would likely be biased because some groups had more access to creating and preserving primary sources. This is why we study history (and science) very eclectically. In order to minimize bias you need to hear many points of view, including the extremes. And yes that is difficult in history with younger children. But you could make the statement "some northern colonists came seeking religious freedom." Or better yet read the statement in the book and say some people see it this way, then give the opposing view, then give your view. And leave it that, thus exposing your children to the concept that there are different ways to look at a topic. I do that lots with my young kids, and they readily accept the idea.

We just found the Pup and Hound books at our local library. They are really great, a lot of fun. They are newer though.

My problem is the generic nature of that statement. What is many? And "the separation of government and church" phrasing seems a little clunky. Yes there were northern colonists who came to seek religious freedom. Some to govern themselves independently according to their religion, others to be able to worship without government involvement at all (separation). Most probably fall into the former category, but a good number fell into the latter category, PA and RI are good examples. So is that many, it is probably less than the majority. And actually a good number of people came not caring about religion at all but seeking $$ and opportunity. Not even everyone on the mayflower was a "Pilgrim" It is just a bad generalization/oversimplification.

:) I used to call myself that. However I found that a lot of people who claim the title of unschooler have a rather strict definition of unschooling, which I find a bit ironic lol. Anyway, many unschoolers claim that if you have any agenda regarding what your kids are learning then you are not an unschooler. Sometimes I use the term relaxed classical. But I find that to many implies lack of interest in rigor as opposed to an intentional lack of strict planning and schedule. Then there is the term delight directed learning, which I like, but also implies a primary focus on the kids interest areas, which is not exactly what I am doing either. I sometimes call what I do "pounce schooling". When I see a natural opportunity for them to learn some of the things on my agenda, I pounce on it. But personally I do like the term classical unschooling best. :). This is what it means to mean: 1. I have an agenda of what I want my kids to learn and understand. I have some curriculum I use as a spine that relates to that agenda. But I also try to be aware of what my kids are interested in learning that might not be on my agenda. 2. I have broad goals for what learning I would like see occur during a time period. 3. I have lessons or learning activities that I may use. But, when something comes up where we can learn naturally I am going to pounce on that activity, and skip or modify my pre planned stuff. 4. We try to have lots of free time for play and exploration. My kids are young and this method is working very well. But I do find that in order for it to work, at least in these young years, I have to be well educated myself. If I want them to learn phonics grammar and math but not necessarily on a planned lesson schedule, I have to have a good understanding of it. And really I do personally think classical unschooling is a good term. :)

I know very little about it. But I have a friend who uses it and enjoys it.

That seems appropriate for beginning of 1st, according to my districts curriculum targets. I don't know what they are actually doing. But based on what children should be doing at the end of k and end of first, I would say single digit addition and subtraction would be about right for this point in the year.

Oops Wrong thread

:D I have a very similar experience. These seem so easy and fun. I actually like math and so does my daughter. But before we really started using the rods it started to get frustrating at times. Now we always have c rods out when doing math, many times just c rods actually. But if she is working in the book using c rods is always an option for her. They really are great. Singapore and c rods and we are math happy. :) Sounds like you are doing great!

That last sentence there is what I disagree with. (Not in an I'm offended kind of way, but in a this is an interesting discussion kind of way :) ). I am I guess what could be called a proselytizer, in that it is important to me that everyone have a chance to hear/understand what I believe because I think it would be beneficial to them. (I don't however believe it is right or advantageous to attempt to force, coerce, or emotionally manipulate others into believing what I believe. ) But I am very interested in hearing about what others believe. Not because I have any intention of changing my mind, but because people are important. Hearing about what others believe and understanding it helps you to know and understand others. Also hearing what others believe helps me to clarify my own beliefs. I have some basic tenants of what I believe that will not change, but belief as a whole is more complex than that. Listening to others, even with vastly different beliefs often helps me to see the core of my beliefs, and drop some of the baggage from tradition and culture. As I said before, I know there are people in almost all religions whose goal is to "add numbers" and not care about people as individuals. But I don't think that is necessarily across the board, and I know many who don't look at it that way at all.

Last name ending in s here. This has been very helpful. :)

That is a false stereotype, and over generalization. Understanding that we are calling church invitations and bible reading proselytizing here, I know many people who did/do that type of thing who are very interested in hearing about others beliefs. Now I think there are some people, who are a bit over represented in homeschooling circles, who behave that way. But, based on my experience living in several different places that is hardly the norm.

They have their A to Z phonograms down. As well as several of the other easier ones. We have been doing a lot of the phonemic awareness activities she talks about in the teacher training videos. They do fairly well w/ the basic phonograms. The phonogram app from LoE is really great. My oldest is determined to get all her "stars". My youngest likes "er the er of her". She walks around the house reciting phonogram rules fairly often. ( she actually has more stars than her big sister). Foundations does look awesome. But it is hard to get past the price...

My current first grader was like this too. Now handwriting has started to click and she has really good handwriting. Give it time. Handwriting is really hard for littles. 3 words was the max my daughter could handle at once until about 3 months ago when she turned 6. Now she can write (copy) 3 sentences with ease.

Foundations looks great, but it is too pricey for me. I wish it had been around or I had known about it a year and half ago when I was planning K. Although it still would have been a bit pricey. Dh is only tolerant of homeschooling, and he is also is a financial guy and keeps very close track of expenses. If homeschooling starts to get too expensive he might start pushing for ps. Also, I am just not good at following along with teachers guides and completing workbooks. (Even if the program is fantastic). So I really don't like to spent a lot on them. I really just want guidance and a way to stay on track, which is why I think LoE would work. I will adjust the program no matter what I use. I will look into the doodling dragon app though :) thanks for the suggestion. My girls already are using the LoE phonogram app on a daily basis, and really like it.

Certainly if it was at the level of harassment, or a group of children was ganging up on your child about it, I would report it to someone in charge. But I would do that about anything whether it was religion or wearing blue shirts. KWIM Sounds like you have a good plan of now :)

It is rather normal, and appropriate for a child in a public school setting to speak about their beliefs and invite other children to activities they are involved in. (Assuming speaking and inviting are allowed in general.) You might want to pretend in your mind that this other child is an strict vegetarian or avid environmentalist, and is invited you child to PETA, or is reading environmentalist literature and not stopping when asked. Would you report them to the administration? Agreeing with the others, this is a good opportunity to teach your child how to deal with rude behavior, and about diversity of thought and opinion.

This was very interesting. I see a lot of truth in it based on my own experience. I will forever be thankful for my self contained gifted 4th and 5th grade classes. However, how does one find likeminded peers for gifted children nowadays? ( there basically isn't a gifted program in our schools anymore)

If you are on the first day she really shouldn't be doing the problems in her "head". Singapore is supposed to be taught using concrete examples(manipulatives) then pictorial/discussion examples (textbook), then doing the workbook pages. We are at a similar place in the book. Did you have her do the problems with manipulatives? My daughter doesn't do them in her head. she does it with manipulatives, usually cuisenaire rods. (Occasionally chocolate chips :) ) even if you don't do it with manipulatives, the problems in our book and workbook at that level have pictures for regrouping, so she shouldn't have to do it in her head. I think Singapore is a great program and regrouping is a very important strategy to learn. Try spreading it out a little more and spending more time with concrete examples :) hope this helps

My in-laws have always lived about 20 minutes away. We go to the same church, my dh farms with his dad during harvest and planting. We see them at least twice a week, some seasons daily. We see his sisters at least twice a week as well. (They are both single). My parents used to live 12 hours east. we saw them about twice a yr, that was before we had kids. Now they live 20 minutes away. We see them at least twice a week, they watch the girls all day on Monday. My brother is 12 hours south. They come once a yr, stay w/ my folks for a week, we see them everyday that week. We go and visit them every few yrs or so. My parents go to visit them about 2 or 3 times a yr.

What type of learner are they? Sounds like they are not visual. You might look into something like Logic of English essentials. It is adaptable to older kids (actually labeled 8 and up in some places) and aimed at multiple learning styles. (from what I understand it has similar content to AAS)

I am in a very similar position w/ my 6 y/o dd. although I have tried other phonics programs and bored her. Here was our progression: OPGTR - started at 4.5 yr, she likes the letter flash cards, but hated it once we got to the reading single words. Tears of frustration Alpha phonics - picked this up used at homeschool store, tries it a couple times same reaction, tears. Modern Curriculum Press Plaid phonics- ( got an unused 1995 edition workbook for 50 cents at garage sale!) workbook approach, she really liked this, but the amount of writing was hard on her 5 y/o funky grip fingers, so we only got so far. 100 EZ - another 50 cent garage sale find so gave it a try toward end of K. Hated it. Phonics Pathways - 1st grade this fall. Bought this because we needed something. She liked the games, which were too easy for her, but hated going through the actual book pages. One thing I noticed, while the strategy might be slightly different, the programs she didn't like had something in common: looking at a page repeating single words or even parts of words over and over and reading a "useless" sentence (not telling a story/providing information). With MCP you were actually doing something with the words, matching, figuring out which word works in a sentence, writing the name of a picture. Back to MCP plaid, picking up where we left off. She still likes it, her handwriting has caught up, but it doesn't feel quite complete enough. So I have been doing lots of research and have discovered Logic of English. They have awesome Teacher training videos on YouTube http://m.youtube.com/user/LogicofEnglish They are worth watching, even if you don't use the program. She really focuses on multiple learning styles (visual, auditory, kinesthetic) and types of Learners (logical/literal or intuitive). Most other reading programs are primarily aimed at visual/intuitive kids. Which is probably why my auditory learner who is very logical/literal hated them. I haven't purchased the actual LoE program as of yet, but am using the strategies and info from the videos and the website. It is like a breath of fresh air. Dd 6 is responding well. Of course all kids are different. My 4.5 y/o dd who is also an auditory learner, but much more intuitive than her big sister, is reading at an early to mid 1st grade level, just by hanging around while I was trying to teach older dd.