HCWs are a very mixed bag. Doctors are not - something like 98% of them are vaccinated. But when you get to nurses and techs....it's a very different story.

Thanks for the replies, and the links. Much appreciated & very informative. And fentanyl poisoning is now apparently a risk with any drug sold on the street (or internet), not just heroin. Ugh. I miss the 80s/90s. Seems like bubble gum pop (besides some of the music) compared to today.

I really haven't followed this issue, but I am aware that it is becoming more common and seems to be on the verge of becoming a Big Deal. I'm aware I need to talk to my teen & YA children about it, altho they are way ahead of the curve usually than me. My question is.....why is this being done? I know that probably sounds stupid, given that we're talking about drug makers & dealers here...not exactly the fount of moral and ethical behavior (/s), but, still...why? What purpose is served by killing off potential customers right off the bat? Or is that an unintended consequence? My understanding is that it's added by the Mexican drug cartels and often distributed through the normal channels and now often being marketed via Snapchat as OTC drugs, eg Xanax, etc. Can anyone help educate me on what is going on with this? Why/who/intended targets/ways to stop/etc. And what's the name of the drug that you should have on hand to counteract it? TIA.

I think many of us have people in our lives who are choosing not to be vaccinated, and, yes, the issue is the degree of crazy that can (& frequently does) go with it. And it is inexplicable and mystifying (the crazy) in many cases. My theory (not that I'm the only or original one to think this) is that there's too much instability, stress, and pressure in the world, and some people's reaction to that is to form complete & utter certainty by taking odd Stances. I can't think of any other reason why so many people have gone round the bend, rather than just, as you say, making a private decision and carrying on while taking precautions. Most unfortunately, they frequently completely overrun the hospitals when they & their brethren fall quite ill. It's all hard. I don't like being angry, but being angry is a natural reaction to feeling powerless while the lights in the life support systems around you start to dim and consistently flicker. I'm actually following the Daily Stoic now, which is helping. Hard times.

I know 3 hospital-based HCWs, in 3 different regions of the US. All report exactly what you do here. They are being ROUTINELY disparaged/accused, physically threatened and/or assaulted, verbally abused, etc etc. And it's the unvaxxed (or, more often, their family members, who are doing it when they get sick enough with Covid to need the hospital (I'd really like JUST ONE to answer why they go to the hospital at all if they are so convinced that the hospital is a dangerous place to be). HCWs are leaving in droves, and while there are numerous causes for that, the straw that is breaking the camel's back is the mistreatment at the hands of the entitled. A surgeon at my friend's hospital announced his resignation shortly after a patient spit IN HIS FACE for asking about the patient's vaccination status (patient pulled down their ill-fitting mask to do it), among many other abuses he'd endured. So the wait for a surgeon in that town is about to get even longer, and the good are punished along with the bad. I mean....can you imagine going through the utter hell of medical school and residency to wind up routinely personally harrassed and f*cking SPIT ON?? I'll stop personal commentary there.

Not to derail this thread, but I am also really concerned about this occurring as well (said as a lifelong Left-supporting person). I don't see it happening for another 3-5 years (tho I certainly could be wrong), but I think the Right is completely missing the fact that all the norm-smashing, populist-rage-inducing, vote-suppressing moves, etc. they are making now could all easily be turned against them (& others) when a norm-smashing, charismatic, power-hungry Millenial(ish) leader rises on the Left in a few years, one who plays on the rage felt by minorities, women, and youth now. And even though I have my political leanings, I don't want that. It's why behavioral norms are so important, as well as protections for the minority party(ies). ****I now return you to your regularly-scheduled on-topic post(s).***

On a separate (but I think related) topic: Russia sees record population decline in 2021, with 1,000,000 excess deaths during the pandemic (start to end of 2021). Not all of those were Covid, but many were also related to the pandemic (lack of health care, drugs, depression, etc) and, according to many sources, Russia has been undercounting Covid deaths all along. The US also has many more excess deaths than Covid deaths, as do many other countries in the world (depending on sources, somewhere between 2x - 4x more). People seem to be willing to do/believe almost anything other than face reality with this virus.

167,000 children (and counting) have been orphaned as a result of one or both parents dying of Covid. The US is still losing ~2,500 people a day to Covid, but just this morning I saw a FB post by someone claiming that, since the total # of dead in the US is still <1%, that the whole Covid thing has been vastly overblown. *Many* anti-vaxxers believe that remdesivir (and ventilators) are what's killing people in the hospital, not Covid. HCWs in my extended circle say that a # of Covid patients come in to the hospital with cafeteria lists of what is allowed and not allowed (no remdesivir and no ventilation are the most common....and, of course, 'no vaccination').

I have found nearly all FB groups - even groups where I seem to share 90%+ of the beliefs of most group members - to be toxic wastelands, full of snipers and minefields all manned by the same fanatic-eyed True Believers (in.....whatever it is they are True Believers about). I only dip my toe into groups for a specific purpose anymore (one that can't be met any other way) and then immediately remove myself once said purpose is met. I can't check out entirely, because some services/businesses still only update through FB, but....good lord...FB has NOT improved humanity. And, yes, the secular groups can be as ridiculous as the religious ones, and vice versa.

Pregnancy and Covid combined often result in ugly, brutal outcomes. I'm so sorry for those children.

Agreed, but who would've thought that health care workers and teachers/administrators (one source, a 2nd, a 3rd, many others found via google) would be on the front lines, receiving threats (including death threats), violence, and faces full of screaming rage on daily/weekly basis? HCWs (including doctors) and educators are all now leaving their professions in droves. This country better get it's shit together and knock these extremists back - and the politicians who fan the flames of their behavior - unless we want to end up with the same level & quality of public services as any other 2nd world country. (Note: this is actually the outcome I expect to happen, but I tend to be pessimistic.)

I’m sure these results will be widely circulated on FB….. Hahahahaha, JK.

My cousin (hospital nurse) has a friend at a different hospital. Management there continues to open beds even with no additional staff. Her friend at one point was managing 14 patients herself in MedSurg with no tech (the standard ratio is anywhere from 1:5 to 1:8 *with* a FT tech or assistant). Every single room there is now doubled. Up to 40 people stacked in the ER. No. Additional. Staff. for any of that. Her friend said that they have to hope that no more than one patient codes (starts to die) at a time, because there is no way to attend to a second patient coding. I have no doubt people are dying who might have lived a few years ago. But how much is really the caregivers' fault(s)? Some, undoubtedly. But when caregivers are constantly put in untenable and unsafe situations by management, how much is management's fault?

I have several hospital-based HCWs in my extended circle of contacts. They are in different areas of the country and all are saying the same thing....the health care system in the US is critically injured, some say in the early stages of collapse. No, not everywhere, but enough everywhere that quality in-hospital care will be the next Holy Grail for many people in many places for at least several years. There are far, far too many highly-experienced hospital staff - nurses, doctors, techs, phlebotomists, CNAs, janitors, you name it - who have left (in one way or another.....including some of those who show up to work every day), there are too many departments in too many places that are dangerously understaffed, and there are way too many big, huge bills that will never be paid by people who ran up multi-million dollar hospital stays. Among other things. I don't know what the answer is, all I know is that there isn't going to be one coming any time soon. Most unfortunately. And no, the hospitals won't tell you, right up until the day the announcement is made that closure is 3 weeks away. I'm sorry, OP. That's scary.

Your well-thought responses are helpful, but every time I read them, I can't help but be reminded of Brandolini's Law. "The amount of energy needed to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude larger than to produce it."

India recently quit using ivermectin because it found - in actual clinical studies - that it made little to no difference in the treatment of Covid. Nor is ivermectin used in Japan (although people claim it is), although they have their conspiracy theorists there, too. Another good article on how we got here from the BBC, and there are many others that can be found by googling. John Campbell is not a doctor, and he does not treat Covid patients and never has. He also has a history of not correctly interpreting studies. And my ICU/ER-based nurse family member states that roughly half of her Covid patients state that they self-treated with ivermectin. And it absolutely does delay people coming in for treatment (because they're waiting for that MirAclE recovery), meaning more-invasive & less-desirable treatment options must then be used.

I hear you. Just so you know. my post was not directed to you (or anyone in particular).

We're boostered and still cautious but also recognize that the infectiousness of Omicron brings a certain inevitability to it. What I find more interesting is how few people (meaning average everyday public, outside of the healthcare scene) are really aware (or seem to care) how completely strung out and effed up the healthcare system is now (at least in US), and how it's likely to stay that way for a long time, and people don't take that into account when calculating their exposure risk (like the doctors/nurses keep asking us to). The Nat'l Guard is deployed to most of my state's hospitals and my relative who works in a very large hospital one state over says it's being openly talked about that the hospital may be in full-out collapse in another few weeks (due to being overrun + a critical lack of staffing), esp if a larger wave hits. So I really hope Omicron results in no larger hospitalization waves and I am trying to limit our risk so that we don't need hospital care (for anything) until we're sure Omicron isn't making that scene worse.

I don’t agree that non-vaxxers should be shunted to the side for care but the comparison to fat people and smokers is one I see a lot and it really isn’t valid. There are no readily available, highly effective vaccines for obesity or smoking. Nor has either condition previously overwhelmed hospitals to the point where other people were unable to access care. Ditto for sports injuries. No, non-vaxxees should not be left to die. But it is absolutely true that their intransigence to get vaccinated or take *any* precautions have led to the situation where *many* other people repeatedly cannot get the care they need, at least here in the States. And I won’t even get into the situation in my state, where our hospital systems are literally collapsing, even with the National Guard deployed to nearly all of them. So many HCWs - including doctors - have left or are leaving that people in the field say it will be a decade before the system fully recovers. They’re telling people to drive carefully, because there’s no guarantee of a bed in the event of a serious accident. Surgeries to remove cancers, replace joints, and treat heart conditions are being delayed for weeks and sometimes months. So it does beg the question…why do the non-vaxxed continue to have instant and constant priority over everyone else, all the time? Why is that fair?

Pay for instructors is a huge issue as well. My nurse cousin tells me that instructors often make less than what they can make working, so of course that means fewer people are interested.

That mandate has been blocked (as of 11/30). And even the mandate allowed for religious exemptions, which most healthcare organizations accepted liberally anyway, often requiring nothing more than workers signing a form. Meanwhile, my cousin's hospital has had 8 nurses resign in the last two weeks, and 3 physicians are leaving as well. Pretty grim survey results about physicians leaving the medical field. A lot of people don't realize that elective procedures, not Covid, are how many physicians earn a significant portion of their money. And when hospitals get overrun with Covid patients, elective procedures get kicked to the curb, sometimes for weeks or months. Top that off with skyrocketing amounts of abuse (& violence) from patients, public distrust and huge misinformation campaigns, constant profit-squeezing (since, you know, it makes sense to have health care systems run by entities devoted to increasing profits..../s), massive stress from constantly being short-staffed....well, the results are not too surprising. The long term impacts of the pandemic in this country are going to include a whole lot less available health care for everyone.