No ideas but this brought a tear to my eye. How sweet!

She's in Civil Engineering. I told her I want her to come home after the year away and retrofit the house with geothermal heating and to Passivhaus standards. :laugh:

I don't know what classes she will be taking, but I know she will be taking them in Spain! All year. The whole year. In Spain. I don't know whether to laugh or cry. Probably both.

This can be managed to some extent by 'showing interest.'

Just felt like bumping this up top one more time. With all the discussion about college and if it is really worth it and all the ins and outs I am feeling a little blue about the whole thing. BUT - no matter where they all end up next year this list represents a lot of good, old fashioned effort all the way around. Congrats to the Class of 2015! And congrats to the parents who encouraged, organized, taught, drove, and all the rest! And here's to TechWife, for keeping it all straight! :cheers2:

:grouphug: to you both. I really hope your son starts feeling better soon!

"My kid is deciding between two schools with different opportunities and different strengths, but they have two things in common -- the finances are almost identical and they are both good options. Anyone else in my boat?" Rowing right here with ya. Same, same, same on all counts. Trying very hard to just think it through logically, point out the pros and cons I see, and let her decide. She has one more extended visit at the end of this week. It is not helping that she is juggling two college courses, two AP classes, work, and a working band with big gigs coming up. She doesn't want to spend any more time on these accepted students events as she has been disappointed by a couple and it means missing CC class time. They don't really give her the info she wants, either - she sees them as advertising in a way. What she needs is a day or two off to spend time once again researching outcomes and major requirements - zeroing in on these two colleges in particular. Not happening this week. I keep reminding myself (and her) that they are both extremely good options and either one will be great. She just needs to pick one, go onward unto the breach with all her enthusiasm, and not get caught up in might-have-beens. Almost like getting married, but not quite. :oP

We used Excellence in Literature and liked it a lot. Good reading selections and writing exercises. I think it can be downloaded fairly inexpensively.

I guess I am confused, too. If a person isn't interested in learning, aren't they barking up the wrong tree thinking about going to college anyway?

So stinkin' proud of you, my friend. CONGRATS and THANK YOU for sticking it out and writing such an amazing letter. :party: :party: :party: :party: :party: :party:

Wow, Rose! What a great thread!!

I think there has been a shift in advertising. It is a huge business and colleges are hiring PR firms to handle the marketing. Even in the last two years, since my older daughter applied to school, there seems to have been a huge uptick in the e-advertising ... my second daughter received an obscene number of e-mails daily from colleges marketing their wares. A lot of them had nothing to do with what she was interested in at all... they just bought some list of kids that had taken a standardized test and her name was on it. It is seriously nuts. Lucky for me I am a cynical you-know-what, and my kids, having inherited my genes, are not interested in the least in the slick mailers and 'click here' emails. Ironically, instead of distinguishing the colleges from each other, all the marketing is very similar, so even schools that are very different from each other look the same. Except UChicago. They have interesting stuff. They are the only one. Because of the stupid rating systems and common app, application rates soar. Is it really more competitive? Or are more people just applying to more places? Or are people self selecting to apply to the right type of schools for them? But yes. In all of this, I want to ask, what will my student actually learn if she comes to your school? It is a school, after all. What will the courses be like? What will the job prospects be? Are people intellectually curious? That kind of stuff is rarely addressed. ETA: I am not disparaging at all what actually goes on at the colleges my daughters attend(ed) ... they have had great learning experiences and professors at the local community community college and at a well known Universities. It's the marketing process that I take issue with. Ick.

We loved it! It was not a full year program for us, but was definitely worth the few weeks it took us to get through it. If you are doing a world history, earth science, Human Geography, or Geography course of any kind it would be a great go-along. Or just do it as a short stand alone. Highly, highly recommend! (and you can't beat the price!)

What do your state regs say? I think it will really depend on that.....

If you are absolutely positive that your student has a favorite school, and it is very likely (according to net price calculators and/or other research on your part) that you will be able to afford it, and you are willing to forgo the opportunity to see any other possible offers of merit/financial aid, yes, it may tip things very slightly in your dc's favor. Yes, If you can prove that it would be a financial hardship, you can decline the offer. My dd#1 was very sure of her choice, and the money looked fairly good. She applied ED and was accepted. It was a good financial fit so we went with it. Now, having gone through the RD experience with my second daughter, I feel certain that dd#1 would have been at least eligible for the same couple of full ride scholarships my dd#2 was encouraged to apply for (but didn't end up winning in the end). Dd#2 was accepted to her sister's school in the RD pool, and got to see all the merit aid/finaid offers from everywhere else, too. Who knows what would have happened? But that's one example of the type of thing you need to live without knowing if you go ED. Article about ED

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: .

((( Sarah))) Your kids are lucky to have someone that is interested enough in their education to look for the possibilities for them now. (Whether they want to go to college or not. :) ) The story about your grandfather reminded me of a family anecdote of ours. My father's father was a NYC bus driver who did not graduate from high school. He and my grandma got married at 17 and 16 respectively, and proceeded to have my dad 9 months later.... and my uncle ten months after that... and 6 more kids altogether ... mostly in a 3 room apt in the Bronx. (Not three bedroom.... three rooms, lol.) My grandfather told all 8 of them that they were going to go to college or learn a trade and pay for it themselves. My dad started working at 17 and put himself through college, while living at home with his parents and his 7 siblings... the last of which was born his sophomore year in college. (Now if that ain't the makings of some great ivy league essay, I don't know what is. At least they had moved upstairs to a slightly larger apt by then.) Some of his brothers and sisters went to college... the rest became electricians. All have been gainfully employed their entire lives. My dad worked his way up in his company and eventually they sent him to Columbia for his MBA. (Bus driver to ivy league in one generation. Hot dog.) He graduated the year I graduated from high school. I think the thing that made it possible was exactly what The Well Trained Mind is about... a classical education. They went to Jesuit schools and read widely, learned math, memorized latin, and were taught good writing skills. Their parents were not well educated but they were smart people and they cared. They paid attention and made sure the kids did their work and got on them if they didn't. In short ... they valued education... just like everyone on this board. I really believe that it's still possible to be a well educated person in this society and that it still counts for something... even if it isn't as easy to put yourself through school anymore... even if the middle class is getting squeezed... even if it all sucks and we are all going to you know where in a you know what. It's still worth teaching our kids well. They will figure out how to put the education to the best use they can when the time is ripe... college or no college. What else can we do besides that? (((hugs))) again.

Repost from above: http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/economic-diversity-among-top-ranked-schools Stanford already admits about 16% of their students from families that make less than about $20,000/year. ETA: doing a little digging, it looks like about 50% of Stanford students qualify for finaid of some kind. About 60% of those folks make less than $100,000/year (and would thereby be awarded free tuition.) So what's that..... beep beep boop beep beep boop beep..... it's about 30% of the undergrad population going free tuition at least.... and some of those totally full ride. Back of the envelope, though. I am sure there are actual stats somewhere. :) I'll keep looking. Unless Hoggirl knows the deal already and can fill us in... :)

:iagree: Too true. I started to type this out before, but deleted .... maybe I will share.... The school(s) that dd#1 and dd#2 go to or are seriously considering meet EFC plus approx $5000 federally subsidized loans (no interest until you are out of school). So if both dds go to said school(s) it will cost us our EFC + $5,000/year/dd in loans. The girls are taking the loans, but we are going to see how things go along and help if we can. This is the best type of school (financially) for dd#2 to choose at this point, excepting attending the local CC + living at home, which is still a viable option. Highlight this next space for mommy brag. Feel free to ignore. :) (I can't let this opportunity go by without saying that so far, dd#1 has paid for nearly everything herself with savings from a multitude of high school/on campus/summer jobs. We get to help starting now. DD#2 will be paying for herself this year. We are very lucky to live in an area that has both jobs for teens and demand for their independent money making endeavors such as giving piano lessons and math tutoring. They both took advantage of those opportunities and worked... a lot. Very proud of them.) The schools that dd#2 is crossing off her list do not meet EFC and would cost approx $10,000/year more than schools I described above, and the aid packages contain more loan. Additionally, unlike the schools I mentioned above, these two schools do not include everything in their COA breakdown, and in fine print mention that there will be approximately $4000 in additional costs to the student per year for books, fees, and misc. expenses. So for our family they end up being close to $15,000/year more expensive in total and entail carrying a larger loan burden, even though if you look at the bottom line on the Financial Aid Award letter they look *much* closer than that.

This chart looks about right for us.

I am appreciating the discussion around college on the board right now... it's stretching my mind. It seems like a lot of it is prompted by books that have come out recently. There must be some older ones that influenced you, too. I'll list a couple that I liked - not that I took what they had to say word for word and went with it... just that they made me think. Please add to this list for future reference. :) (I have to do this all again... once more. And maybe for me, too! I get to make up for all my missed and unappreciated higher-ed opportunities if I so choose. :oP ) Debt Free U by Zac Bissonnette Let Your Life Speak: Listening for the Voice of Vocation by Parker Palmer

I am heading out the door, but I wanted to throw something down here quickly before I go. As in any huge life choice, I think people and families really need to weigh the options. Life isn't neat. Things don't work out like you think. Going to a well known school doesn't mean you will automatically write a ticket to a happy life.... going to a no-name school doesn't mean you can't be happy. Sometimes well known schools can be more affordable than no-name schools. Sometimes not. It depends on so many variables. But as in everything... be an informed consumer. Do your due diligence. Read about what people from the program you are considering do after school. Reach out and talk to alums. Profs. People in the line of work you are considering. If it seems like a reasonable investment, make it. (Obviously don't pay full ticket for an unknown school with a 50% six year grad rate and no alumni network, lol.) But the real investment must come from the student's effort toward making a life. Making connections. Becoming an ethical, productive, curious adult. If that doesn't happen, it doesn't matter what the degree says. If not, even if the person can get a job, he or she may not be happy. The worst thing a kid can do is to get an acceptance letter from some highly regarded place and think, "My life is complete. I will be happy forever." I do feel badly for kids that think their life is over because they don't get into their "dream school" because of their momentary disappointment, but in reality, it is most likely the best thing that could happen for their personal growth. I know way too many people that are happy, productive, giving, whole people who went to community college or no college at all to think that any one college or set of colleges will make someone's life. I do think there are colleges that are better for some things than others... but the person in question has to be ready to receive the gift of the opportunity.

Sounds like this: http://www.thielfellowship.org/about/about-the-fellowship/

It is possible to have a decent idea what your finances will look like to some extent if you use the calculators on the college websites. Ours was very accurate. You do not have to be super wealthy.... but you do have to be super sure it's the place your kid wants to go and you have to be super informed about the way this whole thing works. Some people say the chances are better.... after all, what better way can a college improve its yield than admitting kids that are practically guaranteed to attend? Also, they like kids that want to go to their school and know the programs.

Yes, you are correct. Some things don't work out for all people. Every person won't have access to every opportunity, even me. I was just trying to throw some low cost things out there that maybe people haven't thought of. Truly, I can't make college possible for everyone. BUT if the parent is on this homeschooling board, with internet access, SOME of these things might be something they haven't considered.