We are secular and we read it last year and enjoyed it a lot. I don't remember any bigotry but if there was it wasn't a big deal to us- if stuff like that comes up , we just discuss it and the context in which it was written. Its a great book for an overview of British history, although it was much better as a read aloud than when I handed it over to my kids (they are much older than yours- I imagine you would be reading it aloud anyway).

Lol, join the club. I had no idea so much grammar actually existed! We did AG but we spread it out, and we didn't quite finish it. I personally am not sure that most kids could pick up that much grammar in that short a time and retain it- which is why I preferred to spread it over a longer time anyway (rather than 10 weeks a year, they did it all year, just less at a time). However I am sure I don't want my kids spending every day doing R&S, year after year, because its dry as toast and would take up a significant chunk of every day. I guess we all find our own balance between aiming for that high goal and what we have the time for. I think AG is a great program, and it is recommended in TWTM, so I think its standard is high. How well it is retained, I dontknow. We have ended up with Winston ourselves for my younger. The size of the print in AG was simply too small for him- he has dyslexia and something like that makes all the difference. And he has thrived on Winston, so we are going to continue with that and do the Advanced program- both my kids will do it. They have done plenty of sentence diagramming with other programs but its not something we are going to spend the time on mastering. Then, we may well call it quits for grammar as a separate subject.

Secular here. SOTW has been wonderful for us because it gives some Christian history- which is after all just history- without seeming to come from a Christian perspective. The books are respectful and do not alienate secular people in general, although there is always someone who will get offended. In fact I think SOTW is more "Christian" than the others, so no rude shock. ETA Golly Gosh, it always throws me when old threads I have already responded to are resurrected! Is there a way to delete your own post when you realise you are a dill? :)

Definitely read the hobbit first. We did the Iliad- an adult version. Actually, we did that before LOTR. However, it is pretty heavy going for a 7th grader (although mine were that age). But we had fun- I had another boy I was homeschooling at the time and all the fighting was perfect. Personally, I prefer the Odyssey, and I love the movie with Greta Scacci (sp?) in it. But I am glad we did the Iliad. If you wanted to use older children's versions, I would do all three! Wonderful stories. Looks like a fun year!

I would suggest doing the poetry with him, and also not leaving him to LLfromLOTR all by himself, unless he really is the sort of kid who prefers to work alone. Its the sort of program that works well doing it together, and also provides a lovely bond and memories. I loved our year of LOTR. Also, be willing to pick and choose amongst the various aspects of the program- some of it didn't feel necessary for us, and we did different writing assignments (I made them up). As for poetry, it really helps to do poetry together too. Read it aloud.Dont expect to know how to do it- explore it with him- you dont have to be perfect. We did the Iliad around the same time. I searched the internet and found several ideas for creative projects and writing assignments. We listened to parts of it read aloud on CD. I read parts aloud, and so did the kids. We watched the movie and discussed how it differed from the book. Tolkein's Green Knight is a great, readable medieval poem. We are about to do the Spencer's Faerie Queen but I don't know yet how it will go. We always do poetry together. I cant think of any other fantasy books off the top of my head, but you may find there is not much time to read a lot of other books during the unit studies. We foudn ourselves moving at a pretty solid pace to finish the program in a year. But, it was our first time through LOTR. Enjoy the time together, particularly if he is only just coming out of school.

Yeah, within the normal range considering her age, but I would be dosing her with some herbal iron tonic regularly/ feeding her high iron foods . I wouldn't personally traumatise her with a blood test as long as she would cooperate with taking a tonic/eating more high iron foods. Also, you could sneak red meat/liver into other foods eg pasta sauce.

For 5 years it was the central theme of my life, and yes, most of my spare time went into thinking about it. However I have noticed in the last year that I no longer identify with it so strongly, obsess about it (I was obsessive). I don't spend all my spare time thinking about it. I have other interests and I even have to make myself sit down and research and make up schedules and buy curricula- its not my passion any more, its just my job. I still enjoy it, but I am no longer driven by it. I am happy with the change. I am coming up to 6 years homeschooling.

Yes, exactly.

DD14. Was doctor. Now its an artist. DS13 Business Man. Maybe real estate. As long as he makes lots of money. :glare: Truly, i am ok with anything they do pretty much (well, there are limits) but I am concerned about my daughter's ability to earn money as an artist, and I am concerned about my son's ethics!

I get plenty of these. Anything that is trying to make me forward something through making me feel guilty, gets deleted. I consider it spam, or as bad as spam. The internet is useful for many things, but I dont want to support those types of emails. If they bug me, they will bug others. I do forward many emails. Just not ones that tell me to send to 10 friends or else.

Yeah, like the others said- practice. And I have had plenty- with my dh! He is about as confrontational as you can get, he thrives on it. Its actually (although sometimes annoying) a great quality because you always know where you stand with him. But I had to learn to stand up for myself, or get bulldozed. So, I learned form him. I don't always find it easy though. I have a girlfriend at the moment that I am avoiding because I dont want to confront her. It probably wont do any good anyway. She just complains a lot, and has done for years, and I am tired of our friendship being based on supporting her continual problems- and its because she refuses to be assertive. I jsut want to kick her and shake her and tell her to get angry with her ex instead of being so nice and then whinging to her friends. But instead of telling her, I am just avoiding her. In learning how to be more assertive though, I have tended to go to extremes. When I am boiling and know I needto say something- many times it has come out just too strong because once I cross that inner boundary, too much force comes out. But over time I have got a bit better at saying what I think in the moment, then it doesnt build up. My husband keeps telling me, that I think is true, is that its all about not caring so much what other people think of you. We tell ourselves its about caring for them, we dont want to hurt their feelings, but its rarely that- or that is only a small part. Its caring what they think of us, not wanting to be seen as aggressive, as not-nice. So, its ego based passivity, not coming from a compassionate space. Compassion is clear and direct, and it takes care of oneself as much as the other person.

If you are actually avoiding him in church- walking up to the other end of the room to feed your child....it's icky, and as a mother you simply shouldn't have to do that, even if the guy is "innocent'. He is certainly insensitive. I am excellent in any type of situation that definitely crosses my boundary- and your situation certainly would- at giving the icy cold shoulder (I learned to do it when I got unwanted attention from men when I was younger. OK, much younger :)) I just go cold on the person, and I don't think they've ever not felt it. Its not being confrontational, its not even unfriendly on the surface- its just a clear message that they are being too friendly and they better keep their distance. When we were in Bali with my dd when she was 4 months old, the Balinese, who truly love children and babies, would want to hold her all the time. We let them- but we always told them never to take them out of our site. While we were eating they would want to rush her home to show the whole family! In the end though, you need to not worry so much what the man feels- stop worrying about his feelings, or what he thinks of you- and put your child first, and your mummy instinct. In this day and age, people such as the man in your church truly should know better than to behave like he is.

I grew up messy, with a mother who was fairly messy too but who hired a cleaner, and lost it with me every few months and kept me in all day Saturday until I cleaned my pigsty. I have a Born Organised husband who simply cannot relate to mine or my daughter's messiness. But once I found Flylady, I was ok, because I was on the path to healing, and I have been fine since. Not always tidy but I know how to tidy, and Dh hasnt complained for years about my housecleaning skills. However, dd14 has inherited my genes and leaves stuff all over the place. What I do , I learned from Flylady. I have tried writing routines on the fridge and they only work if *I* reinforce them, and I am just not so good at being consistent. SO, when its time to clean- I break things down into small chunks. I do it with ds13 too, who is hardly a neat freak, and basically, we all clean together, often several times a week, sometimes only once. One job at a time is manageable, a whole room is just overwhelming. So, its a vacuuming job, a pick up your books job, a pick up your dirty cups and plates job. My dh cant understand my compassion for my dd's messiness. He loses his temper with it.

Does "candy" cover chocolate too? We dont use the word candy in Australia and I always think of "lollies" rather than chocolate when I hear the word. Dh always buys the kids a chocolate easter bunny, thats all. This year, they asked for a good quality Lindt bunny instead of a cheap quality one, even if its smaller. So we did- they are only about 4 inches tall, but they are Lindt.

1A) I went to Sunday School and a Christian School, even though my parents were/are atheist. I was simply exposed to the teachings about Jesus through that, and it created a foundation so that over the years one picks up more information through the media, through references in other material, through homeschooling using Christian materials at times :). I also have a fascination with religions and often comparisons are drawn. 1B) Who can not be impressed with the character of Jesus? Unconditional love and kindness, compassion, an ability to get tough when needed, and a willingness to stand by what he felt was true in times that literally crucified people for doing that. 2. Sure, its possible to admire someone for part of their life or teaching, and not another part. But that's not the case for me here with what you have said. As far as I am concerned, no one knows much of what Jesus actually did because I don't believe the historical records are particularly accurate. There has been a lot of corruption between then and now, and many politics within the church system. So while many Christians take "what Christ said" as depicted in the Bible, literally, I do not. I don't see the Bible as a factual book of the Word of God, I see it as an historical document that has been corrupted and changed over time. So it doesn't bother me that I see beauty and wonderful wisdom in some parts, and disagree or discount other parts. I have no conflict about it because I try and take the essence. Nor doI worry that Jesus was lying. I dont believe we really know what he thought or said. I also feel there have been and are and always will be many saints and deeply wise people, but I see them as people who have found Oneness, wholeness, enlightenment, and another way of saying that is to say they have found God...and I believe everyone is capable of that. They try and show us what we are capable of, our own true nature, and I don't think we are supposed to worship them the way people do. We are meant to look where they are pointing, which is within ourselves.

Thankyou for these ideas- I am printing out your email and I will integrate some of them in. If she doesn't come up with a better idea, I think I will send her to learn small business skills at TAFE (must be something like U.S. community college). She already has a book-keeping job working for a friend's small business, and it comes easily to her. She doesn't want to go to art school, because she is very self driven and directed and is not ready to move out of watercolours and sketching. She has been an apprentice to an artist for several years (sort of- its a local art class but she is the one student that keeps coming back, and helping the teacher run the class, and even helping with exhibitions), and she is very deep and good in her area (realisitic nature watercolours, as well as fantasy art, mostly drawing- she is a brilliant imitator)- and doesnt really want to expand her horizons too much yet. At the moment I have given her a project of making a medieval book with illustrations, and she is loving that. She writes well too. I haven't found a way in to the other things you mention, yet. The Beatix Pooter movie she enjoyed, but when I got some books for her to get inspired by, she just wasnt. She probably needs me to actually set an assignment, but I must admit she is fussy. I think she is constricted by her own imitative ability, and doesnt find it easy to break out and create from her own imagination, although she has a book she is learning from at the moment which teaches her how to take a picture of someone and turn them into a fairy or an ogre or something. She actually finds the art gallery fairly boring! What to do with such a child ? :) But I am keeping your ideas and I will see what I can do to expand her horizons. thankyou

I agree, ideally, at least for my older kid. She thrives in discussion settings. She did Latin for several years with a teacher who was very good at leading discussions and she learned so much more than Latin. She is now studying Logic and debating with the same teacher and although she is not so keen, I feel the small group discussions are worthy for her. Doing an online writing course and getting feedback for her writing was excellent for her. I do think a literature course would be good too. She has a Science class and the teacher there is good at getting involvement from all the students. Yes, I think teenagers, particularly certain personalities, really need more than mum to bounce ideas and concepts off. They need other teachers to learn from, too- teachers who are inspired by their subject. Their world needs to expand beyond home and books. However, my next child is different and perhaps will get those things later- he doesn't seem to respond well to them yet.

Thanks everyone, wonderful to have a few choices. I have gone for the Short Lessons in Art History , with exercises, that Quiver of 10 suggested. I think she would prefer it to the Gombrich, although I do like Oakmeadow. She doesn't need any recognition/credit for it, so I think she would prefer it as it looks a bit "lighter" and just a matter of fact, get it done approach. (although, chances are she might actually enjoy it). BTW it was cheaper through Amazon, if anyone else is interested. thanks again, very helpful, possibly saved me hours of searching.

My dd14 is an artist. A nature watercolour artist. A good one. She has no interest in art history whatsoever :) but I, as her ever diligent mother insist that she do some art history since at least a part of her future is likely to involve art. So I talked to her about the least painful way to get some art history into her lovely little brain.(We have done a fair amount of art appreciation over the years- I want her to do something independently and a little more in depth). She doesn't want to do anything online. She doesn't want to just read a book, although maybe we just don't know any good ones. I have several, but none interest her and all may have contributed to her dislike of art history. I have looked at the Annotated Mona Lisa online and I really feel she will strongly dislike it. Before I resort to torture (she is compliant but I would prefer she actually enjoy herself when it comes to art), what she has said she would prefer is something that involves reading a passage and then answering questions. Strange kid, but there you go. SO, does anyone know of an art history curriculum that involves comprehension question type format? I guess a text book type thing, but I am open to anything along those lines. A downloadable thing would be great- I cant find one though. thanks for any suggestions

I agree with you completely. There are times when military action has been unfortunately necessary to defend our countries and rights. I just don't agree that this is one of those times. So I stand by my right to be mortified, because I am mortified by what is happening in the world, and I still mean no disrespect to those who feel the governments of today have been acting in our best interests, or those who wish to help their agendas by joining the military. That is my business, to have an opinion, that's why we value our supposedly free society, right? We also have a right to disagree with what our governments have been doing, to disagree with what the militaries are doing, and a right to not want our children to be a part of it. Our children of course will do what they do. I am not being disrespectful to anyone, I am just expressing an opinion. Those past generations, yes, including military people, who fought and died, did so so that I could be free and have an opinion and express it and stand up for what *I*, an educated, free person, believe is right. So, please don't tell me I dont have any right to be mortified. I have every right.

I agree not to necessarily forego all word problems, but if she needs help, she needs help. Singapore is great, we used it for several years, but its not going to suit all children, and my older, a bright kid, still struggled with it at times. My younger....well, he needed me to help him, a lot, and we gave up at the end of lever 4. Sometimes its not the child....its that the curriculum doesn't fit the child. Singapore is one of those really excellent programs that is not really excellent for all kids. I think you have to listen to the child, and where they are at, and meet them there, even if it means changing programs or going back a few levels. The child should be feeling some challenge but also a degree of daily success. If the child is always struggling, and is feeling bad about it, it will affect their confidence, which will further undermine their ability to think clearly. Singapore definitely brings in higher levels of logical thinking than many programs, at a young age. It suits some kids, but not all.

I used the name most people from the last 20 years know me by, but then I changed it to my legal name (I have never taken on my husbands surname so its not an issue). By the time I had changed it, most of the people I would connect with had already found me. Once I changed it to my legal name, my best friend from school found me. I was thrilled to reconnect with her. SO, you can always change it and net a whole different lot of people :)

We have 40 week school years here in Australia. But longer hours in school, when it comes up here every now and then, is usually seen as a political issue, so that both parents can work full time and kids are supervised while they work. It's basically babysitting. It's the same thing when they get kids to start school at an earlier and earlier age- saves daycare. The government subsidises daycare, so having 3 year olds in school is cheaper. Neither has got very far with the general public (and I am only being shallow here, there are many connected issues). We Australians like our lifestyle.

I need a LOT of alone time and you'll find many homeschooling mums are introverted and need their space. I have a daily afternoon nap while the kids read and then just do their own thing. Often, 2 hours. I bite hard if anyone disturbs my rest time by making noise or coming into my room. In the evenings, I go off duty around 8 or so. My kids are now teens and go to bed at 9pm, but until recently, it was 8, then 8.3opm. I choose to watch tv with them, but I could easily be alone instead. They dont go to sleep straight away, but they are in their rooms. I get up at least an hour before the kids in the morning to have some alone time before they get up. On weekends and holidays, I dont presume to entertain them or do things with them all the time. We all just do our own thing a fair bit. We eat together usually, we spend plenty of time together, but we are all fairly independent. The thing I found when I started homeschooling is that my kids became considerably less needy of me once they had me around all day. Once they filled up on me, so to speak, they became pretty self contained. Also, they are much easier to be around when they are not at school all day. Layers of coping mechanisms and schoolyard behaviour shed off and they actually become quite nice people :). In fact, many women I speak to, when they find out I homeschool, instincitvely react and say they wouldnt want to be around their kids that much. But I find it easy. Their personalities changed a lot when they stopped going to school.

Lol, my son hates to be reminded that when he was four, he told us he was going to be a mummy when he grew up, and he was devastated- massive screaming tantrum and denial- when we told him that wasn't possible. :) Sigh, the kid has his moments.