I agree with everyone else to a point....but honestly, if I didnt have much support from dh and I had 6 kids, and everything was on top of me and out of control and I hadn't already found a way to manage it.....unless the local schools were horrific, I might use it as an at least temporary measure to give myself a break and get back on top of things. Even to the point of putting toddlers in daycare so I could get some alone time. In past generations extended families would give mothers like the OP a break when needed. I don't think we are meant to do all this alone. I know a woman with 6 kids who year after year would do very little schoolwork with her kids because her life rolled from mini crisis to mini crisis, and she would share with us mums about it and we would commiserate...and assure her her kids would still get a good education...but after years of it, we realised they wouldn't and honestly felt they would be better in school. I do think....if your (especially older) kids are not getting a reasonable education at home for more than 6 months or so....they might be better off at school. It is possible to turn around and change it all, discipline them, bring order and routine to your life..but it takes a lot of inner strength, and if you just dont have that right now, be honest with yourself about that and do what you need to do. There are worse things than school for kids, honestly. No, school wont solve all the problems, but you will get some breathing space to sort yourself out.

Although the woman and family are in a sad sitation, she is probably not too stupid to notice that others like yourself don't eat like her. Whatever it was in her life that sent her down the hole to obesity and neglectful parenting was probably not nice, and only she can really get herself out of it again. But having been down a few holes myself- I was grateful for unconditional love and acceptance, but usually not too happy to hear judgements and unsoclicited advice. Its sad though. I like the idea of writing to her doctor too, and letting him know. But people like this need classes and ongoing support programs. I don't know if those are available to this woman.

For me its not my girl, who jsut isnt like that, but my boy.... I try really hard to keep letting go and come back to a fresh start with him. I keep hugging him, telling him I love him, in quiet moments. I pick my battles. I dont want a war but sometimes I will stand my ground against all pressure too. They are growing up and still little kids all at the same time. I remember being 13- not fun. I think one of the problems with having teenagers is if we still have immature parts in us....they have a knack of finding them and making us acknowledge them :) Its a good time to know when to apologise :)

My kids have been doing chores for many years and it is still an ongoing issue of reminding them, givng consequences such as withdrawing pocket money etc. when they are not done properly. But they are much older than the OPs kids. I would honestly be very patient and expect they wont do them- train them. It takes a lot of work to train the kids, but it pays off in the long run. Basically, you have to keep going until it is a habit for everyone- but it doenst have to be a miserable tim.. Just matter of fact. Expect resistance, but stand firm. Expect to stand over them and make them do them. Do it firmly and with patience. Also, dont expect perfection. My kids do all the dishes- alternate weeks. One does the animals one week, the other does the dishes. All of them for a fmaily of 4. Then they swap. Its not a small job, but they do it- they are teens though.

There is an author called Jackie French who is a proliferant writer and she writes wonderful books for a wide age group, but a good lot for around your daughter's age group- both fiction and non fiction. Her website is jackiefrench.com and you can see if there are any that appeal to you. My daughter loves her books.

Whooops, thanks for letting me know.

No. I find the CTT courses don't take a lot of time, except for history. It's easy to add to them. It's also why I chose LLATL, because it also doesn't take a lot of time. I think they all vary, but my son finished Creative Writing 1 in about 3 months- but it doesn't require a lot of writing- there are 24 lessons. It sets a foundation. Creative Writing 3 has 47 lessons. So it depends how many times a week you do it as to how long it takes. On the website he has recommendations for how many tmes a week to do subjects- but I have my son do creative writing 4 days a week at present, since we don't do science at home. It's also possible- and I am trying it- to give a set time and have them complete as many lessons as they can in that time. Because some lessons dont take very long, and others do.

I cant remember what my pre-movie picture of Edward was....more Leonardo de Caprio like though, I seem to remember. I avoided the first movie till a month ago because I wasnt happy with having my fantasy destroyed. But in the end...once I saw him moving and animated...I kind of fell for the movie Edward too. If I hadnt read the books though...the whoel tihng woudl look rather pathetic. Seeing New Moon was a hoot though for the audience reactions, the aaahs and the laughter. I mean, that scene right at the beginning where Edward is walking across the carpark to Bella in slow motion like a male model? . That had me so cracked up laughing- fortunately I wasnt the only one laughing...I mean, that director had a sense of humour.

Hi Nadia- there are no textbooks needed. He rewrote all the history courses to include the text in the course. Yes it will be the same as the separate course. He does all sorts of specials all the time. I have tended to buy things separately though because I didnt want to commit myself. But you dont have to pay $100. Still $45 a course. Also be aware that the history courses are more 6 months than a year, although it would be easy to stretch them out.

I am terrible at doing kegals. Just know I sympathise as it regularly happens to me too.

One of my teens has the most bubbly, refreshing personality. She is like sunshine. She isnt a late bloomer either, particularly. But she does seem to be a rarity! My other isnt depressed, but man, is he moody!

Thanks faithr, your post helped me a lot too.

I havent read the other repsonses, but I strongly suggest you check out Connect The Thoughts for an extremely unmotivated child. The link is in my signature. It talks to the child in a very respectful way, and values their opinion, and it also develops the child's own voice....its not classical, but it does chronological history. My unmotivated child is thriving on his CTT subjects, and his writing has taken off because I am not allowed to criticise it. As I said...not classical, but if you are at your wits end, consider it.

I agree....the Teenage Liberation Handbook is a good one. Not that I could get my kids to read anything like that. They would just prefer to complain :) I too have kids in Scouts and it sometimes seems like our lives revolve around it. We have very enthusiastic leaders. How long have you been homeschooling for? It can take a while for kids to learn the benefits and find their way. Kids who have been in school are used to structure, being told what to do, and an ongoing resistance to that, but not really knowing anything else. My son told me he wants to go to school this week (loudly) because he has been so slack and we have only 3 weeks left in our year, and I have implemented a timed scheudle from 8.30- 3pm. He screamed. How could I do such a thing? Some of his friends have already finished for the year! Yet after a couple of hours of the new system (normally he would rush through and finish by late morning) he told me he actually liked it. It was more relaxed for him. Over the years I have tried a lot of things. I have designed dozens of schedules and tried way more curricula than I would like to admit. But I have mostly kept the kids keen to homeschool rather than go to school. Ds only wants to go sometimes in order to try and manipulate me. Towards the end of the year we often end up kind of unschooling. But by the beginning of the next year I am back into a schedule. This year, the slack part was 3/4 of the way through the year instead. I like the idea of unschooling but I think you need a certain kind of kid to do it. I never felt my younger was that kind of kid, and my older would jsut do art all day. Maybe you just need to keep trying different things. If we had just stuck with my original ideas of homeschooling, we may well not be homeschooling now. One of the things we have always done, which kind of glues us together, is have "together work" in the middle of our day- usually late morning- and I read aloud and we do other stuff together- like Thinking Toolbox at the moment. Its our favourite part of the day. Dd does her art then. Ds lies down on the couch. They feel they are getting a free ride and I am doing all the work- but I know we get a lot of good work done in that time. I have been where you are many, many times. I just kept trying new things, and we have muddled through.

Yes Nadia, starting anywhere is fine. I asked the author the same question. His concern is only that most kids dont do history chronologically...since I have, and you probably, its not an issue. We started with Medieval and it has gone well. IN fact, I am about to jump to Modern next year- not my preference but it will be dd15's last year homeschooling and she really wants to cover modern before going on to study journalism, so we will. You can start anywhere. There isnt an answer key and you will see why if you can get a feel for the sort of questions that are asked. There is no absolute right or wrong answer- its more thinking and giving your opinions. FOr example, after reading passages- these are a few random questions I copied- there are usually several questions per lesson. "How could a good sewage system, one that quickly and efficiently removed waste,increase the length of life of the population? 50 words or more." "Find the largest church, temple or mosque in your area. Go inside for 10 minutes. What does being in such a large building, dedicated to a religion, seem to make others feel? Does it make you think or feel anything? 50 words or more." (We did that- we are not religious- and my kids found it a profound experience). "What do you think of Theodora’s speech to her fleeing husband? Might she have made a better Caesar than her husband? Give three reasons why this may be so." "What do you think the impact of guns would have on war? How would it change battles normally fought with swords, arrows and spears? How would this contribute to China’s growth in power? 50 words or more" "The American Indian tribes were eventually pushed from their homes by Europeans, who took over North America. Today, many of their descendents live in “reservations”, areas of (very poor) land “given” to them by the American government over the past 150 years or so. What justifies America doing this to its native population, and what does not? 50 words or more." There are lots of documentaries and movies incorporated into the program too- there are many links to documentaries online. Sometimes you have to track down a movie- usually found in the library, I have found. If not, I skip the lesson. I have started doing history together with my two because I want to finish medieval by our end of year in mid December...and I know they are engaging with it well by the way they are answering the questions. But its not going to be for everyone- its not your normal type of curriculum.

I am using Connect the Thoughts. Different approach to the more academic programs, but it's working well for us.

Ds14 is reading and enjoying The White Company by A. Conan Doyle at present. Apparently Doyle loved it as his favourite of his books- better than all the Sherlock Holmes ones. It's set in medieval times. The other book we read this year that we were all surprised how much we enjoyed, although it wasn't an easy read for us, was Ivanhoe. I can imagine my ds14 liking Lord of the Flies, although I havent given it to him yet.

I started it years ago by comparing what we are doing to school. School starts at 8.30 here. Kids have to be up by 7am- usually, at 7am. Breakfast and chores and piano practice before 8.30. Dd15 is not a morning person. This year I implemented a morning walk for her- she also wasn't getting enough exercise. She takes the dog for a walk at 8.30 to be ready by 9am. I count it as PE though :) For motivation...well, we bang on their doors, we make a fuss. Dd15 has coffee nowadays in the morning- either she makes one or picks up one on her walk- and that seems to help her wake up too. Dh and I are morning people. If it were convenient, the kids could sleep in and start school whenever, but it just wouldn't work. We work into early afternoon, and I am pooped. I get up at 5 or 6am naturally, and I have an afternoon rest. We often have afternoon activities or evening activities, and dd15 has a job. It only works well if school is started by 9am at the latest. They just have to fit with that, even though I realise teens develop hormones which prefer to have different hours. I think a key is to get them to bed on time. My kids need between 9 and 10 hours sleep most nights, still, so they are in bed by 9pm.

I agree, but then today, my son had to translate a passage in LLATL into present tense- and for some reason he had never done that before and it was really, really hard for him. I never realised he had a problem with tenses before. Then we went to Latin, and it completely reinforced what we and just been doing in ENglish, and he understood it easier in Latin! Go figure.

:lol: My teens say "having a spaz attack" . I say "having a cow" but you know, that could be out of date as well :) You know we have chooks here instead of chickens? We even have Kentucky Fried Chook. And we run around like chooks with our heads cut off when we are very busy. To be gobsmacked is to be very surprised. How about ripsnorter? It means really good. :) And we just had spag bol for dinner. We call sausages snags. We cook them on the barbie. And a yobbo is an almost affectionate term for someone unsavoury such as teens racing in the streets and leaving skid marks, or driving past hanging out the window with beer bottles in their hands wolf whistling at pretty young women. Rough kind of people. Can also be called hoons. We eat bikkies (cookies) and we have brekkie (breakfast). We eat pav too (pavlova). Toilets are frequently called dunnies, or at least the loo. Woop Woop is a term used to describe a place somewhere a long way away, usually outback. A tinny always refers to a can of beer. We "veg out" on hot days, holidays, in the evening in front of the TV- just means relax but kind of like becoming a vegetable too :) SO many more!

I would love to feel what it would be like to be one of those gorgeous African women who, no matter their size- in fact the bigger the better- feel comfortable in their bodies and exude grace and sensuality in the way they move- not to mention their ability to dance and just enjoy their bodies.

OK. I can completely understand your concerns and they were, and in a way still are, mine as well. Although I havent been at the stage of wanting to put my kids in school (except for a few minutes here and there!), I have been at my wits end not knowing how to motivate particularly my younger. I am using Creative writing3, Medieval History, Manners, Control You or Them, and my older is using 3rd World Countries and Artist Basics. We are not using the science. My kids go to a science class. I have bought the Biology though for next year because it also covers health, which is particularly what I want to cover with my older before she goes to TAFE (CC equivalent). My situation is different because I am in Australia and I have alternate pathways available to university for my kids, if they choose to go. They have done plenty of science in the classes they have attended since they were 12 and neither are sciencey or heading for science careers (although my younger is a bit young to decide that yet- I would still probably use CTT science though because of the way it engages this particular child). So I can't answer your questions as to how high the standard is in the science curriculum and whether its enough for your kids. The creative writing courses are pretty much that- creative writing, although not in the usual sense of giving an arbritary topic to write about-- they teach literary terms and the structure of fiction etc, and there is a non fiction course as well which covers all sorts of topics. It strongly develops a writer's voice- but no, it doesn't focus on grammar. However....they have actually got my reluctant writer writing. In fact the fact that I am not criticising my son's writing has opened the floodgates to a lot of creative writing and thought. When I do ask him to read me what he has written. I am often surprised at the way he thinks when given the opportunity to express himself without judgement or editing. He is really engaging with the questions. Thats worth a lot around here. However, I put him onto LLATL as well because I do want him to keep up his grammar, and it also has him doing other sorts of writing such as essays etc. I am not willing to let that go. ALso, we have used other programs in the past to work on different types of writing. My older is using home2teach again next year to get her writing standard up before she goes into Journalism. So, I am using CTT Creative Writing as a part of my overall long term plan and program- and I am very happy that it has my younger actually writing. Also...many of the assignments in all CTT programs ask for approximately 50 word responses. ALthough the author says that less is also OK if they actually answer the question, my son was consistently giving less than 50 word responses and I pulled him up on it and asked him for more detail in his answers. So, I am still the parent, no matter what the program says. The author is a "creative" type rather than a "science and maths" type. He was a screen writer, his wife an opera singer, and both their kids have gone into creative type careers. This appeals to me...but its not going to appeal to everyone. My favourite is the History, because of the way it covers world history in a chronological way, and also the types of questions it asks. It engages the kids in thinking about the history rather than regurgitating information or memorising. However...we have done a lot of outlining and note taking in the past, and I will probably still have my kids do notetaking and outlining, but perhaps in a different subject, like our Australian history which I intend to cover next year. So again...I will add to CTT the skills I want my kids to cover. But not necessarily all the time- we focus on different skills at different times. Its not classical and doesn't pretend to be- the author doesnt even have a clue about classical education. He does however have a fairly fresh approach, to my mind, and a lot of it appeals to me. It is designed specifically so that the child becomes self motivated and engaged with the work, and basically works through it all on their own- with help from the parent when needed (there are parent guides in many of the courses). And so far...I find that my kids do engage with the work and are self motivated- it has taken a lot of the stress out of homeschooling for me. However, I still struggle with my son in other areas such as grammar and Latin where he has very little motivation :glare: I suggest you join the Yahoo group and ask questions there if you are still interested. The author will answer them himself, and you will usually get answers from others who are using the courses too. Keep in mind the author is not particularly aware of the whole world of homeschool curricula, especially not classical- he wrote the courses for his two children who he felt werent getting a good education in the private schools they were in.

THankyou everyone, it was great to wake up to your posts this morning. I have realised, not suprisingly, that it is a lot to do with me. Stacy, your post rang a bell for sure....I hate marking, and I get slack about it. He really needs me to mark his work immediately and go over it with him immediately. Having to remember it and go back to it the next day just doenst work. I "know" all about diet etc...again, I have been slack. Back to the protein for breakfast, the fish oil, the brain gym and water etc I spoke to dh last night. His recommendation is that I give ds a strict schedule and make him stick to it- and that it go till 3pm daily. Ds rushes through his work and finishes early. At first I was happy that there was a motivation, he stopped fighting me, and he was now working more independently- such a relief after so many years of me having to sit with him for everything. But now I realise it has swung to the other extreme, and he needs more structure and more input from me. So last night I drew up a timed schedule and we will give that a go. And I am seriously considering dropping Latin for him. I will keep going till our summer holidays in 3 weeks and consider what to do over the holidays. I think its a mixture of personality stuff, and LD tendencies. Its so hard to know which is which though! Thanks everyone, I appreciate all of your responses.

Dd dropped hers in the pool. We dried it out in a bag with rice for a couple of weeks. It worked internittantly, but not reliably, after that. We have house insurance that covers things like that though, so she got another phone.